If you can't change your circumstance

[Victimorthecrime]

i meant that as long as people don't deny that changing how they view things (those who actually can) doesn't actually fix/cure/solve the underlying problem (or the cause), but merely relieves some of its symptoms.

But it can sometimes open a door to a solution, even if the solution is simply saying "to hell with it. This thing will never get fixed" and move onto something w a better return on investment, so to speak.

[Resolute]

It seems to me you are putting up a wall where one doesn't exist. I see the mindset and the situation as interacting, unfolding together, not as two distinctly separate things.

believe me, i'm too lazy to up anything. the mindset and the situation are only joint things after the fact. i.e they start out as two independent entities, and then they start interacting with each other and fueling each other. all of this happens after the initial circumstances were already in place.

I am not referencing any kind of new age magical thinking, nor even positive thinking, just a change. In this case it was a change from feeling overwhelmed and depressed to being committed to doing it, to being in action w/o judgement.

how can you not judge something, and be committed to doing it (or not doing it), at the same time? you must judge something before you can decide whether or not to commit to doing it.

[Resolute]

But it can sometimes open a door to a solution, even if the solution is simply saying "to hell with it. This thing will never get fixed" and move onto something w a better return on investment, so to speak.

can we agree that a real solution (to any problem) is one that leaves absolutely no negative marks behind, and has absolutely no negative repercussions? if so, then clearly, there are almost never any real solutions.

[Victimorthecrime]

You got it capital K.

(ps - I think your friend Resolute is stuck in the matrix. He actually believes these thought constructed problems exist in objective reality )

[Resolute]

I think I understand what Victim is trying to say here. In some martial arts, it is sometimes said that a warrior "feels no pain". A lot of people interpret this and similar statements as meaning that you can simply make pain itself go away, to make it disappear, to even make the concept of pain disappear. This is absurd and not what is meant. If you slam your knuckles as hard as you can against a brick wall, it is going to hurt. Period. It is possible, however, to ignore or transcend the pain to the point that some people simply can feel it and not feel it at the same time. The pain is still there, but it no longer affects them the same way. Similar to shoveling snow in the wind: you will be cold doing it, your muscles will ache and tire, but you make up your mind to ignore and keep going. That is a world of difference from simply standing outside in sub-zero temperatures and saying, "it isn't cold, it's quite warm. I'm comfortable."

as psychologists (perhaps small could confirm this) say, any attempt at changing something that isn't rewarded is guaranteed to backfire. that's when learned helplessness comes into play.

Does this make sense?

not really lol. just kidding.

[Resolute]

(ps - I think your friend Resolute is stuck in the matrix. He actually believes these thought constructed problems exist in objective reality )

your mistake is presuming that all problems are in fact "thought constructed problems".

[IrmaJean]

I think that being open to different thoughts in and of itself can open the door to solutions.

VBN1C, it's good that you are finding ways to help yourself.

can we agree that a real solution (to any problem) is one that leaves absolutely no negative marks behind, and has absolutely no negative repercussions? if so, then clearly, there are almost never any real solutions.

Maybe it could help to change your expectations?

[Resolute]

Maybe it could help to change your expectations?

if you mean 'lower my ambitions', then that's practically impossible given what i've seen and what i know. maybe with a lobotomy or something.... and if you mean 'improve my outlook', then i'm afraid that, also, would require massive doses of self delusion and fantasizing, neither of which have served me in the past.

[Victimorthecrime]

Klingsor, I think I know what you mean about the perfectionist syndrome and how it squashes your coping skills. Examples might be best: I took guitar lessons but when I realized I was not the next Eric Clapton I gave it up. I took martial arts and I was no Chuck Norris so I quit. In college when I realized there were guys that could get random women to sleep w them I all but gave up talking to girls. Even now I sometime feel like a total loser for working in customer service instead of management, technology, or finance. Just writing this I feel like someone is physically squeezing my heart. I could let it destroy me. I am not even saying that would be a bad thing. All I am saying is there are other options and that right now I feel those other options are more attractive.

[Victimorthecrime]

your mistake is presuming that all problems are in fact "thought constructed problems".

To what extent (if any) do you feel that thoughts, mindset, consciousness, attitude - whatever the label - play a role in one's life and more specifically how problems occur for that person?

[IrmaJean]

If I'm not the best at something, I give up.

Maybe it helps to know where this comes from? Something from your childhood perhaps?

[IrmaJean]

Klingsor, you seem very self- aware to me and I think this can be a place to begin healing. There are so many different modalities for therapies to try. DBT?

Resolute, I was referring to your definitions of happiness and solutions. Would you have an expectation for total happiness without ever feeling sadness or pain? Or the expectation of a solution without the chance for any negative repercussions?

I'm straying off topic here, I apologize. Some good discussion here.

[Victimorthecrime]

Nothing is off topic, all good.

[Resolute]

To what extent (if any) do you feel that thoughts, mindset, consciousness, attitude - whatever the label - play a role in one's life and more specifically how problems occur for that person?

- external (circumstantial) problems:

some problems occur regardless of mindset/attitude/etc., and some problems are directly or indirectly caused by our behaviors, which are a result of our mindsets/attitudes, which brings us to:

- internal (psychological) problems are usually caused by bad genetics and extreme events, neither of which are in our control.

needless to say, our attitudes and mindsets are a direct result of our circumstances and psychological makeup (which affects our behaviors, which is reflected on our lives, and the cycle continues).

i also have good reason to believe that supernatural forces (evil spirits, spells, black magic, evil eyes, etc.) are also involved in many cases of unexplainable (and sudden) calamities, serial misfortune, illnesses (specially the psychological ones) and even death (which is ironic because death would be sweet relief). believe me, i'm not the superstitious type, but to me, there seems to be overwhelming evidence (or at least indications) that something is going on behind the scenes.

[Small]

I'd like to clear up my POV real quick. Im generally not in favour of adjusting ones mindset to trivialise a problem that is otherwise serious or to exaggerate a quality that isn't necessarily impressive. I like to view things in a balanced and realistic way.

Other than that, I do think that people in general should adjust their expectations from social ideals to personal improvement and set achievable objectives in a bid to overcome their problems. If there is NO chance of improving their situation they should, imo, continue to view their problem with the appropriate gravitas whilst simultaneously trying to tackle other problems with the same diligence and tact.

For me the mind is very much important in acceptance, adjustment, and the willingness to make logical progression in the face of overwhelming anxiety, fear & doubt.

[Resolute]

Resolute, I was referring to your definitions of happiness and solutions. Would you have an expectation for total happiness without ever feeling sadness or pain? Or the expectation of a solution without the chance for any negative repercussions?

yes, my definition of true happiness is absolute happiness, without any sadness, pain, boredom, or even the slightest discomfort or annoyance. all of this with the guarantee of it being permanent and eternal. the same goes for solutions. i can't change these definitions/expectations because that would mean changing the whole concept to something entirely different (and in which i have no interest).

[Victimorthecrime]

i also have good reason to believe that supernatural forces (evil spirits, spells, black magic, evil eyes, etc.) are also involved in many cases of unexplainable (and sudden) calamities, serial misfortune, illnesses (specially the psychological ones) and even death (which is ironic because death would be sweet relief). believe me, i'm not the superstitious type, but to me, there seems to be overwhelming evidence (or at least indications) that something is going on behind the scenes.

Interesting, I'd like you to expand on this if you care to. I too have long believed there is a lot more to life than meets the eye or can be fully understood by linear logic A because B because C. I think there are forces and energies at work in the world that might be referred to as supernatural but only because science has not yet developed instruments to detect and utilize them.

Do you believe the supernatural forces could ever be used for good? I don't mean moral good, i mean good in the sense of benefit to the user.

[Resolute]

Interesting, I'd like you to expand on this if you care to. I too have long believed there is a lot more to life than meets the eye or can be fully understood by linear logic A because B because C. I think there are forces and energies at work in the world that might be referred to as supernatural but only because science has not yet developed instruments to detect and utilize them.

there's certainly more than meets the eye, but it's still subject to logical laws.

i'm no expert on the matter, but i have inquired about this stuff. consider many invisible genies existing everywhere (maybe even in little lamps lol), some are supposedly good and harmless and some are evil and might cause harm and wreak havoc. the evil ones can also be "enslaved" to do a person's (sorcerers, witches, etc.) bidding, through spells and whatnot.

Do you believe the supernatural forces could ever be used for good? I don't mean moral good, i mean good in the sense of benefit to the user.

supposedly it can be used for personal interest, but just like using it against others, it's risky and dangerous (he's in trouble if he loses control of the creatures).

[Resolute]

... They had this salesman in there who looked like a professional football player. About 6'7 or 8, huge build....

maybe it was bigbrad lol.

[IrmaJean]

yes, my definition of true happiness is absolute happiness, without any sadness, pain, boredom, or even the slightest discomfort or annoyance. all of this with the guarantee of it being permanent and eternal. the same goes for solutions. i can't change these definitions/expectations because that would mean changing the whole concept to something entirely different (and in which i have no interest).

Does this seem realistic to you?

[Resolute]

Does this seem realistic to you?

beth, if you actually read my posts you'd notice that i've always maintained that true happiness and real solutions don't actually exist. that doesn't mean i should accept that (and "change my expectations") just because it's the status quo. fuck the status quo! excuse my language, but it seemed necessary in order to convey my position on the matter. you call yourself a realist and yet you're the one changing and shifting definitions as necessary to fit the shitty reality in which we exist, instead of being a true realist and admitting that there is no such thing as true happiness or real solutions, and so on.

[IrmaJean]

I think I understand your position, resolute. When I call myself a realist, I think of this is as seeing things as they are and not expecting miracles. I do have some idealistic tendencies and hopes as well. It just seems as though you could be seeking perfection where there can't be.

[Small]

Victim that feeling of having your heart squeezed that you described really hit home for me. In my case it comes from unrealised potential and I usually have it when I see people that enjoy successful careers IRL or on the telly. I compulsively pause whatever I'm watching and imagine what could've been whilst silently choking on unshed tears of my broken dreams. I know how you feel.

[Resolute]

I think I understand your position, resolute. When I call myself a realist, I think of this is as seeing things as they are and not expecting miracles. I do have some idealistic tendencies and hopes as well. It just seems as though you could be seeking perfection where there can't be.

i know my expectations are unrealistic. reality is unacceptable to me, and neither is delusion, ignorance, denial, etc..... i guess that means i gotta suffer. oh well....

[Victimorthecrime]

If you can't change your circumstance then change your mind. It works! I have given you all the answer for free!

People say it's a delusion? Then I ask what's not a delusion? Why is being happy, rational, and well adjusted a delusion but being bitter, miserable and suicidal not?? I'll take the delusion!

Who cares what the ultimate philosophical truth is? Will it matter when your dead?