AA & religion

[McGowdog]

God is or He is not.

Pick one and act accordingly.

If God is everything, then decide in and do steps. Don't stop until all amends are done... then see how you "feel".

If you're not blown away with a need to continue with this God experience, then you missed something.

Faith is action. It is backed up by results. Sobriety is but a by-product.

Awareness is a great place to be... but some of us had quite a bit blocking us from God and we needed to clean house.

Mere awareness is great if you're in a good spot. But intention and willingness is fantasy if not followed up with vigorous action.

[John Rutledge]

... none of these options appear to suit the "He is not" option ...

Best regards,

JR.

[Sissagwaad]

God is or He is not.

Pick one and act accordingly.

If God is everything, then decide in and do steps.

-----------------

Awareness is a great place to be... but some of us had quite a bit blocking us from God and we needed to clean house.

Mere awareness is great if you're in a good spot. But intention and willingness is fantasy if not followed up with vigorous action.

You're making it sound like 'steps' is like the 'only religion\, or way to embrace, acknowledge God, or the gifts he's equipped us with?

"mere awareness?' awareness is huge, without it nothing exists

and, yes, nothing changes lest one chooses to change.

I like to believe God has empowered us all with that ability.

I don't think its particularly useful to imagine Him doing the work to remove us from our habits or choices.

Come to think of it i can't say i've known any Jewish people availing themselves to 'the steps.' not saying they don't, but what do you think of their popular saying with regards to worshipping God?

Edited April 29, 2011 by Sissagwaad

[Sissagwaad]

I would suggest considering 'hoping for God to intervene somehow,

to forcefully 'change' ones choice and flavor of memories, (habits/choices)

is not a particularly useful way to 'set-oneself up'

Are we not Indirectly imagining and making 'real' oneself,

as a rather 'helpless-victim.'

- - - - - -Is this what one wants?

Wouldn't inviting, asking, for Him to continue, being constantly by ones-side,

even though we've forgotten this from time to time, when we've stepped away from our intended path,

and awareness of where we're truly wanting and taking ourself? Inviting, and thanking him for continuing,

and for the gift of forgiveness, (rather than imagining Him so dumb as to require our pleadings to forgive us?)

[PriddyBoy]

Hi

I recently discovered Christianity through my own sobriety attempt's just over a decade ago. As like many I worked through the spiritual rooms of AA which ended up being a back door for my journey into Christianity and understanding of Master "J". Many years have passed now and I'm glad to say I have remained sober. My mind has cleared up through my willingness to apply my will into taking concrete actions with tangible results and lot's and lot's of practice and patience . Now that I have my mental faculties and whatever is left with me I'm going crazy wanting to learn so much just about everything including science, faith, religion, atheist, dualism, objectivism, realism, materialism , philosophy, the Universe, and on and onI think you get the gist. Life is really exciting now for me . In the beginning I spent a lot of time defending my belief's and as time continued I eventually got burnt out trying to make my point and was just letting all the beautiful things life had to offer me just pass me by as I continued to put my experience into someones box, or my box, or whatever I was feeling at the time . My faith at times has dwindled and sometimes today even I have doubts but that's part of the human experience I'm not fooling anybody trying to deny doubt especially mine so here is how I feel these days. I have discovered through my own personal experience that we all have something in common becoming happy and removing suffering . Without getting into to much detail I think you would agree that however you choose to do this it must be a transformative experience . It's not fact's or knowledge, it's not a cumulation of data, it's wisdom in the sense of something that you personally realize that changes you , not me or anybody else but you alone. This is a great criteria discovering what you want to spend your time doing in terms of especially your intellectual pursuit's you see. You can spend a lot of time learning foreign languages, or advanced mathematics and just ton's of things . However none of this in my opinion is ever going to change you especially for the better maybe even sometimes for the worst . The question is will it or is it going to transform you and your addictions into a better human . A happier, kinder, more compassionate , and if it's not than what is the point of wasting to much time doing all that stuff. If it's not going to change you and if it's not going to help you change others to become better . So maybe you should learn a foreign language so you can go to France and teach French people English catch my drift . But if it's just to learn French for French sake and sound cool at a party or something what's the point ? I've got all the wastage in my life I can handle and am very happy to say now I'm finally on my path to somewhere much better than where I was. The beginning of my own freedom has been my liberation and detachment from spending time debating or in my case pushing my beliefs onto others and doing a complete 360 and just listening to others speak about everything and anything . I no longer want to change anybody am just interested in letting people be who they are along with all the IS'IM's that come in their box. You see I have come to realize that it's not important what comes at me as it is important what comes out of me . And what comes out of me in constant energy to learn, laugh, smile, cry, feel, analyze, fear, suffer, help, and just being aware rather then being BEWARE . The chains are falling off as I embrace everything that comes at me because I realize I can't deny the truth and my path is leading me to somewhere other than this place. I'm transforming and am really digging it. I guess what I'm trying to say is find your path and start moving man . But first you got to start up the engine and get warmed up but instead your sitting idle writing and spending time on why you don't like this or that . That's cool but we know AA is not for everyone including you so find something that will transform into a better person and get to it before you miss the bus . Stop identifying with silly things that limit you as a human creature and are only temporarily limiting you and your energy from advancing into wherever you may go man . Like your social status, job, all of these labels that we put on ourselves that limit us and paralyze us from transforming . Dude it's time to transform and not reform AA and get your happiness . Good luck .

[amandamarie24]

I have had the same problem. I went to AA and rehab and both places would say I needed a higher power and it was very obvious they meant God. The counselor became very rude when I told her I di not believe in God, that my family did and I used to, but had did my research and I believed in science. I have yet to find a recovery program that is not filled with bible pushers so I understand.

[Ralph]

I have yet to find a recovery program that is not filled with bible pushers so I understand.

AA is not the only game in town. There are multiple non-religious recovery options available:

Life Ring

SOS (Secular Organizations for Sobriety)

SMART (Self Management and Recovery Training)

Rational Recovery

Google any of these to find their online communities.

[Luna-]

I have a friend who is part of AA who is an atheist but still goes to AA for the benefits it gives her (there is no other in-person program here). She has found material on the "Higher Power" concept as it applies to atheists. She also showed me a whole book written on this subject. If anyone is struggling with AA being the only program available where you are and you are atheist and are interested, I could get some information from her and post it here.

[smallstar]

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