intro to extrovert

[nathan]

It wasn't I process of recognizing my thoughts, meditation, or anything of that sort. One night a couple years ago I had a complete cognitive shift from my normal introverted way of being to and shifted to the extreme side of extroversion. It just happened. my entire conciousness viewed and felt the world differently. Instead of misrtust and anxiety, I lived through other people.

Any opportunity to interact with someone I took, I never thought about what I was going to say or how he or she might react, the words just came to me.

Moreover, I desparately persued interactions with people, like it was my calling to reach out to every person. I was terribly enthusiastic--I quality that my normal self cannot begin to understand. I was a completely different person. It lasted about a week, it was a week in heaven, it was almost terrifying. YOu don;t need cognitive therapy, religion, or meditation in this state, your just there by default, its really quite nice.

I did take a minor leap of faith in a relationship and was rejected, I think that was what sparked it.

I want to find a way to shift like that again, but I don't understand how. It might have to do with taking a leap of faith again, but I think it was the fact that I was rejected that made me shift, but I cant exactly recreate a situation like that.

[randomperson]

For me it is about mental paradigm shifts everytime. When you change the way you look at the world it changes you over time.

[58corvette]

Good Positive Stuff; Thank You For The Post.

We Can All Use This In Our Daily Lives.................

[nathan]

I think I have had a few mental shifts random. They changed the way I see the world, but the vantage point stays the same. Like I notice new things in the world and it becomes a different world to look at and consider, but still my eyes themselves havnt evolved or changed. My approach or attitude towards the world remains the same.

This experience, however seemed different, my attitude shifted, I had an entirely different approach or relationship with life and a cant really figure out what that was.

[randomperson]

Maybe you should look very deeply into that experience retrace all actions and the deeper question, why? Ask yourself why it changed you, why it was different. If you can find that out you might be able to re create that experience.

[nathan]

been trying to, its hard though, ur mind just shifts, no clear cause and effect, I duno though, maybe itl happen again and Ill figure it out.

[Guest GingerSnap]

Maybe, preoccupied with other thoughts, you just let your guard down. I made a turn like that but never went back. Suddenly, I went from introvert to extrovert. I guess my life just opened up with "new". So many people that are introverts are seen as "conceited" or "anti-social" when that is not what it is at all. I have managed to bring several other people out of their shells over the years because I know what it is like to be in that shell and enjoy the magic of the transformation. Sure, a lot of people would like to stuff me back in my shell, but I ain't goin'!

[nathan]

I don't know how you stayed there, I revert back so quickly. I am totally preoccupied with other thoughts. Smoking pot, gets me out of my shell not because it makes me more confident, usually I have additional anxiety when I am high., but despite the anxeity pot helps because it puts me into the extravert 'space'. It allows me to excape my thought patterns which are inherently introverted.

That is to say, when I am not high, I simply ignore that space, I literally don't see it. And so regardless of any attempt to be confident or more extroverted it is all futile because I cant see where it is all going. Yet when I am high I find myself completely in the extrovert space were I know how to participate fully.

The occasion I described above happened to me without the help of any drugs, and it lasted longer too, about a week. I don't know how you stayed there, but my thought patterns simply are designed in such a way that I am always leaving that space, never part of it, and i cant do anything about it.

[randomperson]

I don't know how you stayed there, I revert back so quickly. I am totally preoccupied with other thoughts. Smoking pot, gets me out of my shell not because it makes me more confident, usually I have additional anxiety when I am high., but despite the anxeity pot helps because it puts me into the extravert 'space'. It allows me to excape my thought patterns which are inherently introverted.

That is to say, when I am not high, I simply ignore that space, I literally don't see it. And so regardless of any attempt to be confident or more extroverted it is all futile because I cant see where it is all going. Yet when I am high I find myself completely in the extrovert space were I know how to participate fully.

The occasion I described above happened to me without the help of any drugs, and it lasted longer too, about a week. I don't know how you stayed there, but my thought patterns simply are designed in such a way that I am always leaving that space, never part of it, and i cant do anything about it.

I was as much as an introvert as possible. I had to force myself to be more of an extrovert. One thing that helped I had a phone sales job dumped in my lap when I was a shy inrovert. It forced me to accept the things that kept me in my shell, to change. In the end for me I realize I need to change and things as is will get me no where so I have to be active in changing myself, changing my perception and forcing myself to do things outside of my comfort zone. I'm not perfect.. I really really still struggle with women.. dating and relationships. But where I am compared to where I was is very different. I used to not be able to even talk to strangers.. at all! None of it felt natural at first.. but it is like drivng or whatever. Thoughts produce actions, actions produce patterns, patterns produce character.. character determines your life.

Still some of the more difficult things we struggle with it is hard to force change without a catalyst. ..I see that in my life right now as well with things I still need to change about myself.

[nathan]

I need to change my patterns. I have been a little bit, I have been forcing myself into socializing with people, although I find it very difficult to do sober. Alchohol/ pot are very different but either one helps, I just need something to throw me off my normal plane to interact with people. I dont know why that is but it seems pretty desparate.

One problem is I still have this underlying tendency to walk away, to leave the social space. My habit is to leave and not be part of it, and so half the time I am literally already walking away when I realise I just missed a chance to socialize. It is very difficult to break this habit. And when people see my habit, they assume a don't want to be part of it, they assume that I am in some way rejecting them which of course is never true.

Another problem is that Ive spent all my time looking inward, thinking about religion, and so on. That is what happens when you isolate yourself for along time. Religious ways of seeing the world took over my mind. Not just religion, but incessant thoughts that are really in no way practical to living well. Trying to come out of this and then talking about idle things like what I am going to be for halloween party, is largely foreign to me. But of course it is out of these idle conversations that more meaningfull relationships will arise. On this social side it is not about the inner thought patterns deep in you mind, it is about the energy you can present or bring to the group, no one has time for your inner thoughts, and frankly most social people havn't developed them in the same way becuase they havnt been alone. I dont mean to generalize, many social people have been alone in the past. I need to stop looking inward, I need to push outward, But I have little to push with, I do have lots of inner thoughts I could push but you cant push inner thoughts, you have to push something apealing. The problem is that all i have is my inner thoughts, so what is it that I can possibly push outwards with? I suppose I can develop a humour, but that is sort of superficial, when I tire of it or someone sees passed it, I will be left with nothing. Something more genuine must be found.

Another problem is that I have anxiety issues, but at this point it is hard to tell what is anxiety and what is habit that i have developed out of previous anxiety. Many times I am not anxious, but not being social simply becuase it is my habit not to be. If i was hypothetically rid of all anxiety I'd probably still be largely unsocial becuase of these habits. How do you break them? I guess simply by noticing them. Then again to break the habit would probably induce anxiety, hence the habit, and so i would inevitably be forced to revert back into habit. Then again perhaps I am no longer anxious of some of the things I have previously avoided out of anxiety, and so breaking the habit would open up new opportunities without anxiety. I dont know.

Lots of times I think that everything I am, and everything that I have figured out is somehow taken for granted by others, as if they knew all along and have been waiting for me to figure it out. Thats perhaps kind of paranoid, but i think there is some truth to it in that a social person has all kinds of people to help him understand the world and where everything fits in, he has more resources. And so he figures things out much quicker, and much easier. Somehow I think I am never ready, I am always trying to figure out what others have already seen past. Thats basically my anxiety talking, part of being social is letting your guard down, not to worry about who has the greatest grasp on the situation. But there is probably some truth to that.

As far as women go, I am pretty much bipolar. Sometimes I am really good, sometimes I am brutally awkward. Usually the more fucked up I am the better I am with them which gives me another good reason to drink and smoke. This is becuase when I am not totally fucked up I am stuck with my inner thoughts, and with women you cant be in that state, they are only attracted to you if you are doing all the work of mentally courting them in every aspect, or at least in some way that turns them on. Basically the more attractive they are, the more sensitive they are to this. Ugly ones are relatively lenient. But you dont want to be with an ugly girl for two reasons: one they are ugly, two its only fun when they arn't leniant to you, that is to say, its only fun when they are a chaleenge and you are able to submit them to you.. Even when you are in bed with them, you still have to keep talking or communicating with them or else they get creeped out. Its not becuase women are too lazy to take the mental lead, its just that they have choices, and generally its much easier to follow. It probably takes a lot less energy to follow, there prolly been natually selection which selects for women who follow becuase of the benefit of reserving one's mental energy. Despite the uprising feminists, WOMEN WANT TO FOLLOW. Anyway, You cant lead if you are stuck in contemplation. Contemplation is the antithese to getting women. To contemplate is to chase the rainbow, you are just going to get fucked over, and never get laid.

venting i guess, its good that you are doing better random, I know it is a struggle with women.

[randomperson]

It is good to vent sometimes, it helps you reflect and sometimes brings good changes to your life. I have many of the same issues communicating because like you I have been alone or semi alone almost all of my life. It is difficult to change but the key is to focus on the solutions rather than the problems and force yourself to take baby steps.

I know easier said than done. For me I would but I can't get anyone male or female to hang out with, to help me start these changes within myself. Plus most of my free time is spent working or helping my mother. It is tough and frustrating so I know where you are coming from.

I still struggle but at least I'm sane again Step up from where I was that is for sure. It was tough for me seeing what life could of been like then having it all taken away so fast. That is why I struggled so long in here with posts that touched on my deepest pains and fears.

But I'm about like I was before it all came crashing down what I was like before I started chasing the rainbow.. which is a good thing because I have some peace again to a degree, just more bitter which is not as good lol.

[nathan]

Glad you are doing good, ive been low. Just so you know Its true that all you can do is look for solutions.

Solutions to what exactly? Where is the problem? No women? well if theres no women then there's obviously no man. If theres no man, then there is no problem, But we imagine there could be something and it kills us.

Yes. women will come eventually. If only this hurdle could be hurdled then it will all come together. No. never happens. ]

Imagination is depressing. Gota go do something, dont even think about it. No. Cant do that either, there needs to be a plan. Swing from the left to the right some more.

Fake it until you make it. Cant fake anything, freudian slips are real. Everybody knows.

I hear thier voices when I am high. I know its a psuedo reality, But when you follow them u'd be suprised.

Theres nothing, good luck making something out of it.

[randomperson]

Tell you something interesting. Found a dating site that semi works. Got two people interested in going out. That isn't the odd thing.. what I found unusual that same day just doing my normal routine and a very attractive young woman started openly flirting. If she was a bit older I would have tried flirting back.. but not re going over past mistakes, she was a bit too young. Point is it has been a very long time since I have had something like that happen. Think your mood, confidence carries over in ways we can't see.

Either that or I had a very lucky week

All this time I was feeling it was something about me keeping people away.. especially women. Thinking a lot of it has been my lack of self confidence simply showing through on my face or something about me in some unknown way.

I'm by far not saying I'm fixed. Mental health in a way is like a strong virus, it changes. Grow stronger in some spots weaker in others depending on life.. but I have learned if you stop trying it only gets worse.

Everyone keeps telling me to find a large church with people my age. ..thinking they might be right. I let a bit a darkness into my heart to shut off the extreme pain, rather than go totally to God like I should have.

It worked but I'm finding as always when you let bad things in it comes at a cost. It is a new challenge, one that seems minor and small right now. I just need to make sure it stays that way.

I hope you find peace and happiness.

To everyone I wish you a very Happy Thanksgiving.

[nathan]

Good that you are feeling more confident. Good that you got some women talking to you. Cheers.

There some things I'd like to talk about here...I dont really think it is lack of self confidence keeping women away. I've given up thinking that that could ever be a real cause of a guys women problems. Thats just an easy excuse to sell self improvement books. Women run away because thats what they expect to do.

Where we go from there, or what we do when they think they are running away is all up to us.

It's not really confidence issue. I mean theres nothing you can really do to be 'more confident' anyway, any attempt to be more confident inevitably backfires. Its just what happens, the guy comes, the women runs (and when she stays you want her to leave). Thats good, its usually starts like that, if she doesnt run she must not be 'fit'... Personally, I like the ones that take care of themselves..keep it going, and turn it into a dance somehow, I dont know how, just turn her run into fun.

People say its a game and you have to play it right, but thats a load of crap because all that does is make you look for the rules. There are no rules, the real world is unspeakable, especially with this.

I think when a women flirts, HIT on her regardless, if not only to get into the mood, doesn't mean you have to even like her, just dance with every girl I see, becuase theres nothing else to do. I've done that too, where a girl will start flirting with me, but sometimes for some reason I dont hit on her. Always regret it.

[nathan]

.....posted twice

[Guest ASchwartz]

It's not a matter of "hitting on her" if you want a real relationship. It's a matter of showing interest and getting to know her, it seems to me.

allan

[nathan]

Its true that I might not know what a real relationship is.

By hitting on her I just meant do something, as opposed to making reasons not to.

Part of all the anxiety and lack of confidence has to do with making up those reasons.

But as long as you do something, let her no you are there, willing to try--and it doesn't necessarily have to be done all confidently--then you are far better off. It shows that you are interested, and there to participate in the act.

Focussing on your confidence levels is a waste of time, could be spending it going out there getting to know some girls. The more weight you put on your confidence, the more devastating it will be when you are in the moment and realise that you have none. In those moments where all the unkowing rushes in, in those existential hells, its important not to be overly devastated and remember what it is you want, which is always the girl. Everyone knows this, it is no secret, dont ask who's on first base, why would you even question that? Your just confusing yourself, stick to what you know.

Confidence kills

[Guest ASchwartz]

nathan,

thanks for the clarification. I just would like to point out that even the choice of the words, in your own thoughts, "hitting on" can raise your own anxiety levels. It might help you to think in other terms. Anyway, just a thought.

allan:)

[nathan]

Thats maybe the whole problem here, solved. If I could take away all the things in the world that made me anxious, even only in the slightest, I dont know what I'd do but I'd imagine I'd start to get anxious about it...Its all anxiety at some point, how do you deal with that? If I cant handle a word, how am I possibly going to handle another person????Twp people at once????

But I do appreciate your point. It is an interesting point. I think it is important to be aware of things that make you anxious, and to take care of yourself, and work to steer towards things that relax the anxiety, even if it is only using a different word.

On the otherhand it is important to be anxious, becuase you can't hide in a shell all your life. SO. I suppose to start ziggzaaging---go reach out experience anxiety, but know how to relax and take care of yourself when your tired.

But life is a mess zigging like that, so why not start playing it straight or at least straighter. and how does one go about doing this? Some more anxiety later and you stop trying to play it straight because by trying to do it you fail at doing it.

Then you realise you just have to go after what you love, and there is nothing else to do, it is what defines you and will give your life its meaning.

Then you realise that you can't get what you love, and you see that it was for this reason that all your mental problems occured in the first place.

Then all thats left to decide is whether to jump or not.

But at least you kno WHY you are depressed and anxious, am I right? At least now you can shutup, and start trying to live with your problems, maybe even help other people through their problems, maybe even find something to compensate, maybe even find something to love marginally.