Remind me?

[Luna-]

Stephen Fry is lonely, too and also flirts with suicide.

He describes it so well, wanting to be left alone, but not wanting to be alone, at the same time.

[IrmaJean]

It's good that your therapist called back, Luna. I hope you feel better soon.

Thank you for sharing that link.

Take care of you.

[finding my way]

Wow, I love Stephen Fry-- had no idea he had that site!

Do you like PG Wodehouse, Luna?

[Luna-]

I don't know PG Wodehouse at all, no. Sorry. Was it supposed to be funny? I didn't get it. Maybe you have to develop an appreciation.

I spoke with the pdoc today. She wanted to admit me, but I persuaded her that it wasn't necessary (at all!). She wanted to see me though, so I am on her cancellation list. It won't be next week, they said, sometime after that. But that is OK.

I am tired and down again now. Going to sleep.

[malign]

British humo(u)r.

Honest evaluation, Luna: on a scale from one to ten, ten highest, how bad is it? How much risk is there?

And if you would feel a need to persuade us one way or the other, don't answer out loud, just internally.

Then I hope you'd let the answer guide your actions. Because we'd like you not only to stay alive, but to find a way to enjoy it again.

[Luna-]

Honest evaluation now? The risk is low.

It scares me a little how easy it would be, though. But I won't do it on a whim, so the danger has passed. I'm Ok now.

Thanks for all the concern, everyone.

[finding my way]

We are here for you, Luna!

[that was Stephen Fry as Jeeves, the brainy butler to the halfwit Bertie... it was just part of an episode and one of many penned by Wodehouse]

[Luna-]

British humour. I often don't get it.

I think this whole thing has passed, definitely the worst of it. My therapist was outstanding. He even said I could phone him this weekend if I need to. But I don't think I will need to.

Thanks so much everyone who has been so supportive here and in PMs, from the heart of my bottom bottom of my heart.

[IrmaJean]

It's great that you are feeling better, Luna.

I've never understood British humor that well, either. (Oh my gosh, Hugh Laurie looks so young in that video.)

Take care!

[finding my way]

Hooooorayyyyy! Thank you for reaching out, Luna

[i understand British satire as making fun of everyone yet with a top spin of wishing everyone very well at the same time with the net effect of not taking oneself too seriously and thus being able to enjoy oneself whatever one's lot in life. That's the kind I like, anyway. Some satire is at the expense of someone, and I don't enjoy that. In this series Wodehouse makes endless fun of the "ruling class," and highlights how dependent all of us are on others to make our world go around.] [of course, that doesn't mean it's everyone's cup of tea! ]

[malign]

From the hottom of your bart? :-P

Yah, we're just glad you're still here.

[LaLa]

Oh, (((Lunabelle))) ...

I wasn't here for few weeks, that's why I didn't post even here. I didn't know what was going on...

I'm so glad that you've reached out and shared your feelings and thoughts, received such support, also from your therapist, and finally got better!!!

I would miss you much, too. (But I believe you know we all would, and not only we here, on the forums. It's just so very hard to "feel" and believe, in some moods/states, I know.)

Just a little idea:

You've mentioned also not taking a shower very often, in such states. But what about a bath? Wouldn't it be soothing, the nicely warm water, with something fragrant in it and perhaps some music...? I wouldn't see washing as a duty and as something your inner critic might "bully" you about, but rather as an opportunity to make something at least a little bit pleasant for yourself... I suppose you're not motivated to do it. But as far as I know, sometimes it helps to force oneself a little bit (- if possible, not too much!) to do something that should be pleasant (but doesn't seem appealing at the moment) and it may indeed be pleasant when one succeeds.

I hope very much your depression won't hit you again so strongly... But in any case; you know were to go to talk about it.

Edited June 29, 2013 by LaLa3
mistakes...

[LaLa]

P.S.:

I'm sorry for posting the idea about a bath... I know it might be a good advise for a bad mood, but not for depression . I just didn't realize it when I was writing. My fault...

One more thing; I wish you good luck, Luna! Take care!

[LaLa]

Me again ...

May I mention an alternative hypothesis to the one your T said about the onset of this depressive phase? Perhaps it might be not a consequence of the stress, but of the lack of the activity you had when you were engaged in the courses. You were focused on them and although it provided also anxieties and worries, it was a process, something you were following and... maybe you didn't have so much time for some ever-present but mostly rather hidden thoughts and worries. (It usually helps to worry about something concrete, temporal, and mainly manageable then about... pure existential issues, for instance.) ... You know; maybe he's right, I cannot tell. But if not, then it might prevent you from doing any challenging activities and that perhaps might lead to more depression. That's why I decided to mention it - just for your consideration...

[Luna-]

Yes, I had considered that L. I definitely have a lot of time on my hands. I do have more time to think and I have been thinking, especially about my crappy life. But still, it is a relief to not be studying, I'm not looking forward to going back. It's true that the anxiety of going to lectures and doing the work kept me going and now the depression has overtaken the anxiety. But it has been quite a while since I had suicidality and I also think that the anxiety wore me down. Once the pressure was off - it hit.

Who knows why it happened. It's probably more important to work out what to do about it.

And a bath is a good idea. It's one of those things one ought to do when depressed but just can't muster up the energy to do - although a bath takes the same amount of energy as taking a shower. They're both Undress, get wet, soap/shampoo, dry off, get dressed again. On a depressed day, that seems way too much. But yes, one must sometimes force oneself to do things one doesn't want to do.

I still have to work out what to do when I next go to the pharmacy and get my meds. Taking them to a friend means coming out about it to him. What scares me is how easy it would be and how I might get impulsive. Something I am going to talk with my T about.

[Luna-]

Things didn't magically clear up but then I guess they weren't going to. Still, the suicidal feelings have lessened. Yesterday wasn't a good day. We have an arts festival on in our town atm and I went around some art exhibitions with a friend but felt so down I was dragging myself around and eventually asked her if we could just leave. I had crazily booked a ticket for a show at 18.30, but once I got home about 17.00, I couldn't confront going out again and just crawled into bed. Then I woke at midnight and couldn't sleep anymore. So today will be a long day. Feeling sorry for myself, ugh.

I saw my T on Monday. It was one of those sessions where I talk depressed-talk and he challenges my thinking and keeps asking me what the evidence is for my thoughts. It was a bit tiresome. But he was kind. He encouraged me to see the pdoc (still waiting for an appointment and ambivalent about going) and said I should come back and see him again as soon as possible. He put his hand on my shoulder as we were going out of his room and said I just have to survive for now, not to worry about anything else. That was comforting.

[IrmaJean]

A lack of sleep and early wake up can make for a very long day.

Would it help to create some of your own art, Luna? Maybe it could be self-connective?

I hope you can get an appointment with your pdoc soon.

[finding my way]

((((( Luna ))))) Is there anything kind you can do for you today, no matter how small? We are here!

[Luna-]

Yeah, I did. I went to a comedy/magic show. It was good. I also saw an amazing art exhibition. I haven't made any for ages, my T chided me a bit over that. In a good way. I must get going with that again. It's just to get it together... is hard.

[finding my way]

Maybe a small step of any kind? Doesn't have to be something that brings heavy associations for now...

[Luna-]

Why don't we want to shower when we're sick?

Extract: (my bolding)

And I’m not exactly sure how to explain it other than to say the water is painful. It feels like an attack. It feels like I’m in so much pain already that a breeze grazing my skin makes me want to cry.

And I’m really, really trying hard not to think about that pain. That’s the stuff of death. So the last thing I need is to have shards of water splitting through my skin. I don’t want to shower; I’m in enough pain already.

Those two bolded phrases sum it up for me.

[malign]

Does immersion, like in a bath, produce the same intensity of pain?

This is truly a heightened sensory state, if you're equating any contact with pain. But you have to admit that it's partly psychological: clothes press just as hard. Could the heightened awareness come from the awareness that you're doing something positive for yourself, that contradicts what the pain (depression) is telling you, so it reacts to being contradicted?

I also wondered whether the recent depression might be milestone-related, in some way?

[Luna-]

Baths are blunt force, as opposed to the shards of shower water. It's still a type of attack.

Look, the article is overly dramatic, but the core of it is true. Not showering is partly the lack of energy, but it is more than that and the article tried to explain the reluctance.

It's not physical pain, well not for me anyway, I don't know about the author. For me it is psychological. Clothes are comforting and cover you up and contain you, which is protective. Getting undressed is unpleasant, maybe partly because it is winter. What she says about not wanting to be naked is true.

Could the heightened awareness come from the awareness that you're doing something positive for yourself, that contradicts what the pain (depression) is telling you, so it reacts to being contradicted?

Could be, yes.

Milestone-related? explain?

[malign]

I admit that I didn't follow the link to the article; I often don't get that chance, from here.

I can see that cleaning oneself up is an attack, particularly an attack on the depression itself (been depressed too, once or twice.) And perhaps it's justified to be uncomfortable with that. Although generally, I might have said that anything that attacks depression could be seen as a good thing, what we're really talking about is an attack on a depressed part of the self, presumably by another part of the self. In that view, the depressed part is entitled to a bit of compassion; there's a reason that part is feeling sad. Bluntly trying to eliminate the part, to deny the validity of its reasons, to force it to be quiet and go away, doesn't sound like an effective way to heal.

For me, there have been times when a certain measure of "just do it" was helpful, but your disruption, your need, may go deeper than that. In my own experiences, I have often thought of depression as an "it"; in particular, as something that wanted to kill me. I didn't appreciate that, or associate it with a part of my self. If, on the other hand, it is closely associated with a part of you, then it's no longer an "it", it's a piece of your "you". Maybe that shifts the approach to the sorts of things one would do to comfort a suffering child, instead of defeat an enemy.

By "milestone", I was attempting to refer to birth date obliquely. It seems I succeeded, in the obliquity at least. ;-)

[finding my way]

Do all gestures of comfort feel like an attack? Are some ok if they don't threaten to change your state? ((((( Luna )))))