Christian perspective on shame

[Jeep]

I found this really interesting:http://www.nacr.org/wordpress/986/let-go-of-shame

When Jesus faced death by crucifixion, we are told that he “endured the cross and scorned the shame” (Hebrews 12:2), Jesus endured the pain. That is, Jesus did not avoid the suffering, but instead, he went through the suffering. But he rejected the shame. All the shame that others were attempting to heap on him had no power over him. Jesus did not accept the shame others were trying to put on him. He was being treated as a person with little or no value. But the message of shame, “you have little or no value,” was a lie and Jesus refused to accept it.

Rejecting shame.. I like that.

[dvnJ22]

I'm entirely sure I'm a Christian, I was raised in a Christian fundamentalists religion. While I'm still technically a member, it's only because my family are members, and if leave I will be shunned. However I still really like the bible, especially the parts with Jesus. I wish I could find a decent church.

[malign]

There's absolutely no reason that you have to accept the message, from anyone, that you are of little or no value. Even if this person is a member of a group you value ("hot women", perhaps), or if you previously cared about their opinion, you do not have to accept their opinion as fact. It is a fact only of this one person, not of any group, and quite often, it's a fact that's only valid at that moment (when they're angry, for instance.)

If we allow ourselves to be hurt by their message, it's quite normal to start to generalize, to assume this is the opinion of a larger group of people, in order to protect ourselves from being hurt in the same way again. The problem is that generalizations about humans are generally false; every single one of us is different.

Note that Jeep's observation isn't really about religion, unless that's how you want to take it. It's about how it is possible to react to people trying to shame you; anyone can do it who has enough faith in himself.

[mts]

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[dvnJ22]

There's absolutely no reason that you have to accept the message, from anyone, that you are of little or no value. Even if this person is a member of a group you value ("hot women", perhaps), or if you previously cared about their opinion, you do not have to accept their opinion as fact. It is a fact only of this one person, not of any group, and quite often, it's a fact that's only valid at that moment (when they're angry, for instance.)

If we allow ourselves to be hurt by their message, it's quite normal to start to generalize, to assume this is the opinion of a larger group of people, in order to protect ourselves from being hurt in the same way again. The problem is that generalizations about humans are generally false; every single one of us is different.

Note that Jeep's observation isn't really about religion, unless that's how you want to take it. It's about how it is possible to react to people trying to shame you; anyone can do it who has enough faith in himself.

I agree I wasn't saying I'm going to reject it. I will reject the whole thing about faith in myself though.

[malign]

But why, exactly, dvn? In a way, you're the only one that you can actually have faith in. You can't even be sure the rest of us actually exist ... But you know for sure that you do. To me, that would seem to give a person at least the faith that they deserve to exist.

The problem, really, isn't the people "out there" who say you're worthless; it's that you give their opinion weight because you believe it yourself. Otherwise, it would be easy to say that they just don't know you well enough. But if you already feel you're worthless, then it seems as if they've discovered your deepest secret, and must be right.

Personally, I don't think you're worthless, because I don't think anyone's worthless.

[dvnJ22]

But why, exactly, dvn? In a way, you're the only one that you can actually have faith in. You can't even be sure the rest of us actually exist ... But you know for sure that you do. To me, that would seem to give a person at least the faith that they deserve to exist.

The problem, really, isn't the people "out there" who say you're worthless; it's that you give their opinion weight because you believe it yourself. Otherwise, it would be easy to say that they just don't know you well enough. But if you already feel you're worthless, then it seems as if they've discovered your deepest secret, and must be right.

Personally, I don't think you're worthless, because I don't think anyone's worthless.

How can I be sure even I exist? what is existance anyway?

[malign]

Dude, if you hear breathing in your head, trust me, it's yours.

Existence is this one chance you get, to live.

My dad died this year at age 88. He isn't coming back. He was born poor and illegitimate, and his mother married a man who didn't much care for her two kids by some previous man, whose name my dad never learned. He didn't graduate from the equivalent of our high school; it was the Depression, so he went to work.

It could have been a crappy, dead-end existence, but he wasn't willing for that to happen, so he did something about it. His self-esteem, at times, was awful (I got to hear how he talked to himself), but he lived anyway.

I don't know the size of his penis, or whether that would be relevant anyway. I just know he left behind the things he couldn't change, and did something about the ones he could, and I'm alive because he did that.

That's my definition of existence, anyway.

[dvnJ22]

Dude, if you hear breathing in your head, trust me, it's yours.

Existence is this one chance you get, to live.

My dad died this year at age 88. He isn't coming back. He was born poor and illegitimate, and his mother married a man who didn't much care for her two kids by some previous man, whose name my dad never learned. He didn't graduate from the equivalent of our high school; it was the Depression, so he went to work.

It could have been a crappy, dead-end existence, but he wasn't willing for that to happen, so he did something about it. His self-esteem, at times, was awful (I got to hear how he talked to himself), but he lived anyway.

I don't know the size of his penis, or whether that would be relevant anyway. I just know he left behind the things he couldn't change, and did something about the ones he could, and I'm alive because he did that.

That's my definition of existence, anyway.

Well you started the vague solipsistic conversation, I'm just following your lead.

[someone555]

I found this really interesting:http://www.nacr.org/...let-go-of-shame

Rejecting shame.. I like that.

there is no shame in being a sinner. under the eyes of God we are all the same

Through Jesus we can proudly say "yes, I am a sinner, but through the Grace of God we are not ashamed, as we have been cleansed of it"