Do you want the truth?

[Resolute]

7 minutes ago, Small said:

Well even if he fails, the reward is a stronger, more resilient character. This puts him in a position where he could either apply this mental strength in coping with his life or if he wanted, could try again another time. Where consciously he might have associated hard work as pointless (and to a lesser degree punishment) the collaboration of his subconscious and preconscious adjust, as well as the cognitive schema which colloquially speaking, gives him the ability to live in the trenches without as much discomfort or anxiety.

what if he considers 'a stronger, more resilient character' pointless?

[Small]

You've defined LH wrong. It's ascenario where the subject perceives their condition to be outside of their control which does or doesn't necessarily have to be the case. Since you're a huge fan of the sensitive nature of cosmic variables, and that no two situations can possibly be the same, I'm sure you can appreciate the difference. As for reinforcement, I said there's a duality, and nowhere did I assert they nullify each other. One acts weakly in the conscious mind while the other strongly in the subconscious. 

 

"Victim Blaming" is too generic here. It depends on  circumstances..

[Resolute]

ya, i blame victim too.

[Small]

8 minutes ago, Klingcorn said:

I used the term 'partisans of positivity' in an earlier post, but perhaps a better expression is 'partisans of change'. Based on the self-contained logic of this mentality, one could make a valid argument that victims of labor camps, death camps, pogroms, genocide, forced starvation, etcetera were simply opposed to changing their circumstances, in which case their oppressors were the "better men" because they self-evidently have the fruits of action on their side. 

Reductio ad absurdum. Invalid and silly.

[Resolute]

@Small

do you disagree my assertion, that unless the reward/outcome is something that the person needs/wants, it's pointless?

[Resolute]

@Small

how did you delete your double post?

[mts]

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[Small]

Klingsor

 

l've always maintained, that it's all dependent on the situation. In your example it's clear that the victims were completely powerless and their suffering as well as death was outside their control. Some situations can't be changed, I'm not sure why you're putting words in my mouth, and the example you provided was to first make me theory rigid by removing the aknowledgedment of helpless situations, then stretch it beyond it's scope. 

 

Just like you removed competition as a motivation for participants in a theoretical LH situation to prove your hypothesis, when you've been the primary proponent on competition driven behaviour in males. 

 

I've stayed consistent. In the free will versus determinism debate I aknowledged that as arbitrary as a number would be, I'd probably assign a free will level of 15% or less to the average person, which needless to say, also provides the definite scope of situations that are genuinely helpless. 

 

I find it amusing that you accuse "us people'' of lacking logic when you're clearly struggling to keep your emotions out of a discussion.

[Lantrier]

There are scenarios where we cannot do anything about our suffering even when we tries our harder to overcome the problem. I'm upset when people in my entourage tell me that it's all in my head and that I should be positive, that my happiness all depend on me. LOLL I would like to tell them if they should be able to be happy if they had castration during all their life as me, I think that they won't be happy, I think even that they would be extremly depressing. Generally, people don't have the capacity to determine the extent of the suffering of others except if they have been in extreme pain in their life, if not, then they will all say that it's in our head and that everybody is capable of happiness: what a bullshit. I have every reason to be sad and no one are going to change that, my only hope is in medication, but right now it does not help. There are no free will, I had complete no control over my life: it's as I had a curse.

[Small]

[mts]

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[LaLa]

I like the discussions here "but" still don't want to participate. Yet, I saw this today and it occurred to me that perhaps I could quote it here, quite out of context, but perhaps it could be a useful term/concept for somebody here:

 

Quote

“Emotions refer to the internal states of consciousness. Negative emotions like sadness, fear, anxiety, or boredom produce ‘psychic entropy’ in the mind, that is, a state in which we cannot use attention effectively to deal with external tasks, because we need it to restore an inner subjective order.” 

 

source: http://www.eoht.info/page/Psychic+entropy

[mts]

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[IrmaJean]

20 minutes ago, Klingcorn said:

Optimism in itself is not annoying. What is annoying is when it is used to invalidate, belittle, and patronize people who have encountered repeated failure or disappointment by telling the person that their complaints are simply the result of a "bad attitude". Any disagreeable thing at all can be attributed to a "bad attitude", and then it's only a minor leap to an "attitude adjustment". It reeks of the entitlement mentality and bullying. 

It really doesn't matter if someone looks at the glass half full or half empty, that is certainly their privilege. But if you need a full glass of water, perspective won't change that requirement very much. If someone can whistle through every disappoint and continually sweep pain under the psychic rug, hey - more power to them. I can't. Does that make me an unworthy human being? The court of public opinion would seem to say: guilty. 

I don't ever want to do any of the above that I bolded from your post to anyone ever. 

Do you think there is anything that could be helpful to bring you more peaceful feelings? Maybe if you can't see anything now, one day you will?
 

[Resolute]

9 hours ago, mts said:

One persons problems may be less painful than another persons in some ways, but have unforseen complications, the difficulty of which could only be understood by living as that person. People will often appeal to consequence with "this is what will happen if you keep doing x", as though you weren't already aware, having experienced the consequences repeatedly for a long time. Then they'll say "well, he just didn't learn; I did try to warn him".

i couldn't agree more. people with an iq not much higher than a potato repeatedly stating the obvious, and repeatedly making very ignorant and simplistic assumptions and conclusions is quite infuriating. (i'm not talking about anyone here)

 

9 hours ago, mts said:

Someone I know does this; the ultimate arrogance....

if you only know one such person, consider yourself lucky. most of the people i know (and the majority of humans in general) fall under this category.

 

Quote

I don't know why I contributed here, I'm a fence sitter.

have a chair (or better yet, a couch), at least.

[Resolute]

5 hours ago, LaLa said:

I like the discussions here "but" still don't want to participate.

i'll persuade you yet.

 

6 hours ago, LaLa said:

I saw this today and it occurred to me that perhaps I could quote it here, quite out of context, but perhaps it could be a useful term/concept for somebody here:

Quote

Emotions refer to the internal states of consciousness. Negative emotions like sadness, fear, anxiety, or boredom produce ‘psychic entropy’ in the mind, that is, a state in which we cannot use attention effectively to deal with external tasks, because we need it to restore an inner subjective order.

i fail to see how 'psychic entropy' helps us "restore an inner subjective order" by preventing us from using attention effectively to deal with external tasks. it seems self-defeating. all it seems to do is cripple us (each person to a different extent) internally and externally.

 

[Resolute]

9 hours ago, mts said:

Yes a change in perspective may help with our specific problem so we keep shifting the evidence, but in the meanwhile there is a sense that one can only lean into the wind, so that maybe one day circumstances will "force a new philosophy" - but I would say rather a new behaviour under the same philosophy, if the philosophy was good.

i sort of agree. this is similar to what i said to small. if the philosophy is extensive enough, it should accommodate most circumstances, and the behavior/attitude change would be the result of the new circumstances, not a new philosophy.

[IrmaJean]

I understood that you weren't implying that, Klingsor. It's something that I feel concerned about, though, and I want to be certain I come across in my posts as I intend to.

I'm happy to know you have some level of hope for a more peaceful future. I wish you well, always. 

If I'm interpreting the quote correctly, I believe it means that when we are struggling with painful and difficult emotions, our attention is then focused on restoring harmony and balance within ourselves, which leaves little of our attention left for much of anything else. We lose some functionality.

Mts, it's very good to see you participating and expressing yourself.

[mts]

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[mts]

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[Resolute]

klingsor is itching to delete his post(s), so please reply to his post(s) (and to mine), small.

[tcnewexp]

Newbie question, why delete the posts? (ironically, I have deleted the rest of my post)

[Resolute]

rofl.

[TooOld4This]

My problem was: i couldn't fake it.

I'm at the age (58) where i see my life a lot more clearly.
I finally have enough experience and wisdom to understand what went wrong in my life.
I won't repeat my descriptions of school bullying and sexual rejection here: 
i already talked about all that in other threads.

This thread is about one specific piece of bad advice:
"Be yourself."

How many therapists told me that in my life?
How many times did i read that in some magazine, or self-help website?

Here's the thing: "finding yourself" or "being yourself" is NOT the key to happiness for everyone.  
Sure, it's the key for people with advantages; when they are themselves they cruise through life, favored by society, successful in their careers, sexually fulfilled according to whatever their orientation is, secure in the adequacy of who and what they are.  Happy.  Maybe not happy all the time; certainly not without misfortunes; but fundamentally happy, because they know that the real "me" inside of them has always been good enough, even in difficult situations.  It makes sense for those people to "find myself" and "be myself."

Me, i found myself by the age of 18, and myself wasn't enough.
No, this wasn't just some delusion i'd picked up from doing meth or something.
Even now at my age (in fact, more so now), i realize that i wasn't enough.
I was kind, smart, hardworking, and compassionate, sure.  But that's not enough.

I needed to fake it better, to cover my inadequacies better.
I needed to fool people into thinking i had power, so they would have confidence in me.
I needed to fool prospective employers, prospective dates, prospective friends.
But i was never good at that.  I was always genuine, and honest about my imperfections.

I wish i'd been able to fake it.  This is a big regret i have.
Successful people fake all kinds of things:
-- they fake intelligence, when they're really uneducated and shallow;
-- they fake friendship, when they're only using the other person;
-- they fake interest in their date, when really they only love themselves;
-- they fake energy and leadership, even though they're lazy.

I wish i'd had people in my life who had taught me how to fake it.
"You're saying too much about your imperfections; cover them up by saying ___________."
"You're caring about the opposite sex too much; stop the sensitive talk."
"Stand like this, make eye contact like this, use these words;
it'll make people think you're a big-shot of some kind."

I'm trying to learn how to fake it now.
It's a very hard thing to learn by yourself;
kind of like trying to teach yourself how to read

[Resolute]

i agree that for many of us, being ourselves won't bring us happiness, but i don't think that faking it would either (for many of us; because anything we may supposedly achieve by faking it won't feel real).