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Nic77

My small penis is really started to affect my life

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Hey, I’m new here so first off let me say hello. 

The reason I’m here is pretty obvious, so let me just get into it 

I’m 19 years old, and I never really payed attention to my size until I was 16/17. That’s when I noticed there was something going and and that it wasn’t getting any bigger (it’s about 2.5-3.5 inches max and girth is about the same) It didn’t start to become an issue for me mentally until I was 17, I had recently embraced my sexuality more (just for clarification, I’m gay) and in the process of doing that, it became a huge self confidence and self esteem problem. Over the past 1 and a half years it’s become increasingly difficult. I’ve had nights where I’ve cried myself to sleep, I’ve had suicidal thoughts, you name it. I feel I will never be able to have a sex life, I feel like my options are limited because of my size, and perhaps more severely, I feel like I’m not worthy of being a man, let alone worthy of existence sometimes. It’s starting to become really emotionally painful and I desperately need help. 

 

Thanks for any advice in advance!

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I'm significantly bigger than you and I feel like ending my life all day every day and I'm just waiting to push myself over the edge and finally do it, I can only imagine what it's like for you so my condolences, it truly is a shit situation to be in, the crying yourself to sleep, obsessing over yours (and other guys) dicks, imagining life normal, seeing yourself as nothing short of an unlovable freak, it's truly a curse

I hope you can learn to accept yourself, lord knows I can't

Edit: Forgot to ask OP, are you obese by any chance? being fat can have a HUGE difference in your size, my penis right now is 4.7 inches but my bone pressed is 6.5, so if you're not measuring bone pressed make sure you do so to factor in any extra fat around your penis, if 3 inches is your bone pressed then shit man I don't know what to say

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@Nic77 as a bi guy who is older than you and has also dealt with size issues, I can tell you that there are plenty of men out there who prefer a partner with a small dick. There are plenty of options, particularly if you fancy yourself a bottom. Some men like small dicks because they want to feel superior. Others because they just like how smaller one's feel, and can fit the whole thing in their mouth, hands, etc. 

It's definitely true that most gay men prefer bigger, but don't let that statistic alone drive you into a pit of despair. You can have a happy and fulfilling life, and sex life, as a poorly endowed gay man.

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Most gay guys are size queens, it's a big part of the whole casual sex scene which itself is a big part of being gay but not all are. Also being gay you have other sexual options such as being submissive/bottom. If you keep slim & fit then you will get sex as a bottom with little difficulty and maybe find someone to spend your life with. It's shit being gay and smaller when talking about cocks seems to be such a big part of the lifestyle but it's not the end of the world. If you don't have a great dick then work on getting as great ass/body. XE

P.s. Even ifyou're chubby and small you will get some action because guys are so slutty but it's a bit of a disadvantage. Personally I would 'have fun' with a smaller guy (I'm only 4.5-5 myself) if he was cute.

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On 7/7/2018 at 7:56 AM, Nic77 said:

more severely, I feel like I’m not worthy of being a man, let alone worthy of existence sometimes. It’s starting to become really emotionally painful and I desperately need help

As I've already mentioned at some other places of this forum, defining oneself and one's worth by a body part (or even several body parts) is absurd and harmful. I think it's great that you realize you need help - I hope it'll make you more prone to get it. Not just in the form of encouraging support of some fellow sufferers, but also of an appropriate psychotherapy. Cognitive reframing, emotion management, and other helpful things can be learned and put in practice with help of a professional. You're young, you don't seem to have many bad experiences which would have reinforced "too much" your "world-view" and your self-image, you thus seem to have high chances to succeed quickly in therapy, instead of sinking further into the pit of despair created by your convictions. 

Take care and good luck!

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You can wish for a bigger cock but it won't come true. You can get surgery but it won't improve your size drastically. You're pretty much stuck with what you have and that'll never change. The only thing that can change is you. The good thing is we're not monkeys going through the motions even though it feels that way, and we can adapt to survive or adapt to thrive. We don't fight the fact that we'll never be porn stars, it's not realistic. But being able to have a regular relationship, to fall in love, to have casual sex seems like it should be a God given right for everyone, but, unfortunately, it's not. Everyone who doesn't fit into what society deems acceptable goes through this exact thing. Doesn't matter whether it's this or anything else that makes you feel like freak. You can find love, you can find a meaningful relationship, but it'll take time and effort and probably won't happen organically through regular dating etc. As humans in general sex is our main focus, it's an ice breaker and a deal breaker for the vast majority of people. But not every woman is obsessed with it. But as you'll see from the guys in here, it's not what the women think that matters anyway, because even if they love us regardless of our size, we feel like we don't deserve the love or that they deserve better than what we can offer. So it's a choice. Be an insufferable cunt (not that I'm calling you one) who is dying on the inside and makes everyone's life around you worse (been there, done that) or accept that we can't change the unchangeable and find our joy and happiness elsewhere. You can call it a fate worse than death and nobody would disagree with you, or you can search your soul to discover what else you do want from life. Every individual persons pain is worse than anyone elses, we're wired to think that way. And we'll justify it in our head as "He thinks he's in pain, but if he was me he'd know real pain" and it gets you exactly goose egg. You're a worthy person, you deserve happiness, you deserve love, you deserve respect, but you still have to go and take it. I don't know you, because it's impossible to really know anyone, but I believe in you. I've said this before and I'll say it again, you have to look in the mirror and have that guy's back. He's suffered enough. Don't give up, people love you. ☮

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On 7/26/2018 at 10:48 AM, LaLa said:

As I've already mentioned at some other places of this forum, defining oneself and one's worth by a body part (or even several body parts) is absurd and harmful.

I wonder if the same people who say this to us would say this to a transgendered person who feels the need to transition. Both individuals have been born not with the constructed perspective or opinion, but with the reflexive intuition that their body is not the way it is supposed to be (I know that when I hold my dick in my hands I just feel like it's supposed to be larger - my subconscious tells me so, I don't decide it), and yet because the latter person has an out people will acknowledge that their physicality is actually causing the problem and that altering it is a plausible solution. Because the former person doesn't have an out they're told the physicality has nothing to do with it and they're causing the problem with their thoughts; of course we all know if penis enlargement was viable and affordable this wouldn't be the typical advice.

If sexual reassignment surgery didn't exist for transgendered individuals the reality would be that many of them will be stuck disliking their body for the rest of the lives. They may learn to be happy despite that, but it would be absurd to assert that they were wrong to be in pain, or that it doesn't make sense for their brain to identify with the body it exists in and respond accordingly, whether with pleasure or pain. Why can't anyone just admit that the same thing applies to men born with small penises? The OP probably just isn't ever going to like his dick and that's just the way it fucking is.

 

 

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I hear what you are saying and your comparison to the TS situation is illuminating but remember that English is not LaLa first language.  

I think all she is trying to say is that there is more to a man than his dick.  I would replace "absurd" with "limiting" if I wrote her statement.  

Now look you could also say that there is more to a man than his income but there are plenty of guys that worry about income constantly.  So it goes. 

How are you doing otherwise @CNL??  

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2 hours ago, CNL said:

I wonder if the same people who say this to us would say this to a transgendered person who feels the need to transition. 

This is a funny coincidence, as I used to suffer from gender dysphoria my entire childhood and adolescence (it was later much "attenuated" by psychotherapy). 

2 hours ago, CNL said:

Both individuals have been born not with the constructed perspective or opinion, but with the reflexive intuition that their body is not the way it is supposed to be

I haven't yet seen an example (until now) of someone who was born with SPS. Yes, some of the sufferers (I suppose mostly those whose size is average or very close to average and they are still obsessed by it not being "enough", in contrast to those who have actually a micropenis) have some predispositions (genetic and/or "from nurture") to obsession, paranoia (-in the sense of not believing someone, always suspecting lies), anxiety, perhaps also perfectionism, self-hate etc. But what most of the people are saying is that "women" (/potential partners) find, or would find, them inadequate (and even if they like them, the men don't believe it) and that (with the uncertainty) is causing them all the suffering.

2 hours ago, CNL said:

(I know that when I hold my dick in my hands I just feel like it's supposed to be larger - my subconscious tells me so, I don't decide it

Yes, this is your situation and I see how it can be considered similar to someone with gender dysphoria or - to add another example, perhaps even more similar - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_integrity_dysphoria . But your description of your condition seems very different from most of the others - those to which I mostly referred. Look, for instance, at what Nic77 has written: He didn't care for years, but then he started - due to 'societal' influences - to worry that he won't be accepted by woman, this led to all the other consequent ideas about how his life would probably be, so he became depressed and suicidal:

Quote

Over the past 1 and a half years it’s become increasingly difficult. [...] I feel I will never be able to have a sex life, I feel like my options are limited because of my size, and perhaps more severely, I feel like I’m not worthy of being a man, let alone worthy of existence sometimes. It’s starting to become really emotionally painful and I desperately need help. 

It's because men compare themselves to others that they start feeling "inferior" and yes, that (in case of a body part) I still call absurd and damaging, although also understandable (as we probably all have some absurd thoughts and/or convictions, at least sometimes).

I don't deny the existence of people who just hate some of their body parts independently of the perceived expectations of others. It just seems to me, from my understanding of the posts I've read, that it's not the majority. Perhaps I'm wrong. And you're right; it would be useless to apply the same approach to them as to those who wouldn't mind their size at all if they wouldn't feel "not good enough" for a partner.

 I'm sorry you feel this way. It must be awful... :(  Thank you for explaining it to me.

2 hours ago, CNL said:

They may learn to be happy despite that, but it would be absurd to assert that they were wrong to be in pain, or that it doesn't make sense for their brain to identify with the body it exists in and respond accordingly, whether with pleasure or pain.

I think I understand and can partially agree, but at the same time, I think the key to the misunderstanding is the notion of illness and its understanding:

Take another example: Amputee's phantom pain. It's a kind of illness (or a syndrome, but the exact term isn't crucial here) and why shouldn't we say "It doesn't make sense that he feels pain in a limb that's no longer there"? It is one of possible ways how to look at it. Because "the healthy brain" wouldn't do that and from the perspective of health, biological adaptation, biological function of pain etc., such kind of pain is "absurd". It's not a judgement about the person, we don't blame the person. We "judge" the illness and I think it's OK; illness means "something isn't as it should be".

I think we can talk about gender dysphoria as well as your condition in a similar way. Is it helpful? Probably not; perhaps only in the sense that we acknowledge the presence of an illness (which sometimes already makes a difference, because some people, who don't know about the existence of such condition (including me as a kid, for instance), have no idea "what's going on" and take it as a personal peculiarity and wouldn't consult it with a doctor, wouldn't seek help - because "why would one seek help for not wanting to be oneself?").

The most important part of it is, I think: "may learn to be happy despite that" Yes, this is the point, this is the goal, whenever a perfect cure doesn't exist. But, as far as I know, there are quite many people who just suffer alone and don't even think it would make sense to try to learn to live in a less painful way. And that's very sad...

Edited by LaLa
typos

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I have read about some recent studies that have shown transexuals to have brains more similar to the gender they identify with rather than the gender they were born with. 

I wonder if SPS might be more similar to body dsymorphia? There seems to be an obsessive, anxious, and depressive component that often is present. 

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5 hours ago, LaLa said:

I don't deny the existence of people who just hate some of their body parts independently of the perceived expectations of others. It just seems to me, from my understanding of the posts I've read, that it's not the majority.

I don't buy for one second that when a transgendered woman looks in the mirror and desires breasts and a vagina that all they're desiring is these objects alone, just having the shapes attached to them; they want these things and what they symbolize, all of the ways that having them would change innumerable relationships with external objects and people in the world. That I didn't have SPS until I understood its ramifications sexually doesn't rupture the comparison in any way imo. We learn and feel out masculinity and femininity earlier than our sexual identities - that doesn't make us any more or less born with either.

A transgendered person desires change because an intricate but rigid and unchangeable aspect of their psychological makeup doesn't correspond to their physicality. Wanting to be a woman or a man is as multi-faceted a desire as wanting to have a penis that can actually get at more than 50 percent of a vagina's physical pleasure potential (not having one is a fact that hurts me deeply even when it exists in a vacuum removed from any comparison with any other man with any size penis, and also from any woman with any positive or negative opinion of what my penis can achieve). In fact if I had to pick one that was more tied up in psychological factors both internal and external it wouldn't be the guy crying over his cock. At best they're equal in this way.

In any case the legitimacy of the comparison isn't what I'm interested in. It just bothers me that one group is taken at their word and gets their pain acknowledged and the other really does not. I've said it before, but it would mean everything to me if a woman were to say "Yes, having a smaller penis really does diminish the sensations of PIV and there's nothing anyone can do to stop that from being shitty; identifying with your masculine body parts is the first step of any sexual thought at all and so no man with a libido can really stop doing it." If a woman were to lead with that and then get onto the positivity that would satisfy me for reasons I don't really understand myself. You sensed that nothing positive really came out of the comparison and that's because I didn't intend anything positive to come out of it beyond increasing your understanding, something that I do consider positive actually even though it doesn't improve my situation in any way.

Imagine being the transgendered person and no one ever acknowledges that transitioning would actually help you, and that not doing it or not being able to will always be a source of pain in your life. That would practically disqualify any advice that came after because it acts as proof that they have no fucking clue what they're talking about.

I'm telling you right now that there are aspects of being small that a man just isn't wired to like, and that the best possible solution is penis enlargement. That it doesn't exist yet does not change that at all. And yet I can't just state that and be taken at my word as other people representing other insecurities can - I have to type up an essay like the one I just erased trying to prove it only to again be told that everyone else understands SPS better than men with small penises. I hope it comes through that I'm not really angry about this, and that I didn't target the small bit of phrasing in your post to be pedantic or argumentative. I'm just pointlessly obsessed with getting people to understand what this really feels like because I don't think that they do, and to help people like the OP you kind of need to; I know what it felt like to read responses like this when I was also feeling suicidal and helpless and it was only isolating. Thank you for listening everyone who responded.

 

 

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@CNL, I think your post and expressions- as well as posts from other members- can help build more understanding from others. We can't completely understand what another person feels or experiences,  I don't think, but open and honest discussion can help some. I think we need to listen to one another. I know I have greater awareness of this struggle than I did before I became a member of this community. Maybe as others share their stories and their feelings, it can increase awareness on a larger scale and make a positive difference. I hope so anyway.

I'm sorry for your pain. :(

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Sorry for not being able to make myself understood. (Already the very beginning of your post, @CNL, shows that you haven't understood me at all - you quote me in a totally different context and misinterpret my views.)

Also, I would never think (and I'm not saying anyone implied I would, but it may sound like that in the context ) :

16 hours ago, Klingsor said:

"There is no institutional racism, genderism, ableism, etc. it's your attitude that needs correcting. The problem is YOU."

Bye, guys; I'm leaving this topic so that I won't cause even more confusion and useless anger.

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22 hours ago, LaLa said:

Bye, guys; I'm leaving this topic so that I won't cause even more confusion and useless anger.

Lala -- I apologize for creating more confusion. I'm not angry at you personally, it makes me angry in general that every conceivable disadvantage a person can have is given validation today as something requiring compensatory justice. The only thing that is never allowed to be added to the list is SPS, and even the people who suffer from it seem to think its "all in the head". 

I get rejected by everyone because I'm physically hideous and I'm an angry person because I can't help it. Envy and hatred has made incaoable of feeling joy or happiness at anything. Im sorry I contributed to the conversation.

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Chris Rock in one of his performances said something along the lines of "women, children and dogs are loved unconditionally. Men are loved based on what they do.".  

I honestly did not know what incel was go I googled and the wiki page the Southern Poverty Law Center says is "part of the on-line male supremacist eco-system".  

@Klingsor - I want to commend you.  It is never easy to apologize to someone but to do it while hurting the way you are is inspirational.  LaLa truly means well but it is really hard to a female to  really "get" this issue of SPS.  

Dude if I had an answer I would post it.  For me I have seen enough evidence that the world is corrupt to the core and I just try to be grateful for the few good things there are in my life. There are people that have it far worse than me.  It's a weak tea I know but that's what it is.  

Best regards to all.  

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you know what .being gay means you have more chance to have sex than us, because i wont be shy to show my small dick to a man i'm sure he will feel me , like i feel other guys with even smaller penis than mine .but a women is the other gender can't really understand and feel you like a man do

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I don’t see the point on judging others based on their sizes and with this I’m not saying that people have no right to have preferences.

My penis size is not like yours but I kind of know the feeling of inferiority you might have and I also understand the impotence that it creates the fact that we’re not able to make it bigger and that we have what we have. I sometimes feel it like being a conformist but as hard as it sounds we must learn to accept the fact of our sizes and also that there are men and women out there who are gonna like us the way we are, even if they’re a minority.

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On 8/25/2018 at 3:34 PM, Klingsor said:

Lala -- I apologize for creating more confusion. I'm not angry at you personally, it makes me angry in general that every conceivable disadvantage a person can have is given validation today as something requiring compensatory justice. The only thing that is never allowed to be added to the list is SPS, and even the people who suffer from it seem to think its "all in the head".

I'm sorry I haven't reacted to this earlier, but I actually left this topic, only today, I decided to see "what's new here". 

Thank you. But you don't need to apologize. I didn't take it personally, I just felt unable (or lazy?) to explain properly my point of view which, it seems to me, isn't in fact much different from yours, but I used a different approach to write about these issues here (than in some other places on the forum) and it was misconstrued. Mainly, CNL has misinterpreted my words to such extent that I felt like it would be useless to try to show him all the misunderstandings... My fault, but we all have to choose when we communicate and when we don't feel like being able to do any good by writing more.

I mentioned many times that I do consider terrible how some (and it seems, from the experiences of most of the forum members with SPS, that it's a majority in many cultures / countries) people judge men by their 'size' and treat horribly those who don't fall into their stupid "limits". This part of the problem is not at all "in your head". But when someone is overly anxious even before having any bad experience or when someone doesn't believe his partner that she loves them the way he is, ... this is a kind of suffering that can be attenuated (if not 'removed') by changing one's 'mind'. I don't think such a change could be easy. But I think it's like many other problems that can be faced in psychotherapy: Hard, complicated, long-lasting efforts are needed. But saying "my mind has nothing to do with it, it's a problem uniquely created by others, so I cannot help myself" deprives you of the possibility of change. Yes, the causes are genetic as well as related to upbringing (the body itself + the inclinations of the brain to be more anxious / obsessive / insecure / ... - according to each case) and also, to a great extent, "cultural" / "societal" (= the widespread attitude that "bigger is better" and that it's somehow fun and even OK (!?!) to make fun of someone with this kind of body). "The causes" are not "in your head". But the solutions can be, I think, if the circumstances are favorable (= availability of therapy, at least some true friends or even a normal loving partner).  You probably know some people with huge handicaps who are famous because they do incredible things (in sports, for instance) that even most of 'abled-bodied' people cannot do. They show that a disabled body with "the right" mind (including the right attitudes) is not an obstacle to happiness. But yes, I know that there are also some (perhaps many) disabled people who suffer and life poorly, because they haven''t got the possibility to develop "the right attitudes", the huge will to overcome challenges, ... They don't live in a family and/or environment (/society?) that wold facilitate the development of such will and such positive attitudes. I think it's analogical to the "handicap" (-I cannot consider it a handicap myself; it's just a part of a normal spectrum and it shouldn't matter!) of 'small' men. It's only a part of them that develops SPS. It's a syndrome, it's a kind of over-reaction, it can be at least attenuated if the conditions allow it (=mainly; a good therapist is available).

I hope this time, my description doesn't at least sound as too simplifying the problem.

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22 hours ago, Jon.Carrax said:

I don’t see the point on judging others based on their sizes and with this I’m not saying that people have no right to have preferences.

My penis size is not like yours but I kind of know the feeling of inferiority you might have and I also understand the impotence that it creates the fact that we’re not able to make it bigger and that we have what we have. I sometimes feel it like being a conformist but as hard as it sounds we must learn to accept the fact of our sizes and also that there are men and women out there who are gonna like us the way we are, even if they’re a minority. 

But the humiliations you have to endure to find one within that minority can prove too challenging.... I have lost my mind in the prusuit and suffer from severe anxiety.

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On 9/26/2018 at 1:39 PM, LaLa said:

...

I don't think I reacted so strongly out of disagreement or misunderstanding, but because I'm hypersensitive about the semantics of this issue. I was more trying to make sure my position was understood by you and any other women reading than I was trying to rebuke anyone. My point was simply that some aspects of human psychology are as fundamental and consistent as our anatomy, and are no more subject to change just because some prerequisite knowledge of the world, like how sex functions, is required to perceive them. A transgendered person who grew up in a vacuum unaware of the other sex they would prefer to be would not be able to categorize or label the dysphoria inside of them - but it would still be there, though dormant due to lack of information.

My issue is that the hard, complicated, and long-lasting quality of therapeutic methods just indicates to me that a man is fighting against the current of his own nature when he tries to "accept" having a small penis. It has nothing to do with society, upbringing, personal experiences, and etc in the sense that the dislike of being small arises from instincts so foundational that none of those things could have possibly influenced it to any significant degree. You're up against the basic human affinity for beauty and pleasure, from which follows an enmity for the portions of it we've lost due to our size. The intensity with which these two express themselves in regard to penis size is something that was tuned by evolution itself and cannot be changed.

A transgendered person experiencing dysphoria over their body is not battling anything more fundamental to themselves than our size anxiety is to us, and neither can be fixed except by altering the body itself because it's about how you feel about yourself, not about any external influences at all. I wasn't presenting this as a counter argument to anything, but as a statement of the way it just is. But no woman will ever be capable of understanding. Give them 60 seconds in a male body with a small penis and they would though, and that's the frustrating part.

It's irrational to feel an ungodly spiritual dissonance between your body and mind because a bodypart is slightly too thin or short, and it's maddening to have such a mechanism hardwired into your brain, and to know that it's hardwired, and yet have everyone question this because it's irrational. I remember reading once about an experiment where the scientists could stimulate a certain part of the brain to immediately conjure the thought of a certain color in the participant. Zap, "red," and done. No steps in between. Trying to explain why I just inherently hate having a small penis is like that person trying to explain the steps in between that aren't there. There fucking isn't one. I just want someone out there to understand this.

 

 

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I don't think there's anyone in here who doesn't subscribe to the hardwired hatred for being small in one way or another. It's male pride, if we were ok with it we'd be out getting cucked and fucked without any fight left in us. But if everyone on the planet had a 3" cock and women had smaller pussies (or w/e it would take for me to be considered huge) how would I perceive my myself and my size? Surely then it's not totally hardwired, if I've been considered big my whole life. It's just a brick wall. My life has been dictated by my average cock and tiny flaccid size. Everything I've ever done in my life has been motivated by my size. Everything I haven't done in my life has been motivated by my size. The fact that I've been with my gf 12 years and we have two kids is a miracle in itself, I don't know how that happened. From the age of about 16 (this seems to be the age my ignorance wore off and I became hyper aware of size) it's been my night and day. Made my life hell. I fucking hated myself and hated my cock. No internet back then, so I was the smallest guy in the world for a long time. In the end I just gave up, I just don't want to hate myself anymore. I don't want to hate anything. It drains every drop of energy and makes me miserable. I don't want that. I don't know what I'm trying to say, because I'm not disputing anything you're saying. I just want you to know that I give a shit and I'm not some kooky feel good guy, I'm realistic, I know it's hell. But if I have to experience one thing or the other, I'm choosing the other. I spend about 3 hours a month having sex, the rest of the time outweighs it by a lot. I'm just focusing on that other time and going through the middle of the rest of it. Again, I'm rambling. Ignore me, I just worry about all you guys. I know you can't 'save' people, I wouldn't even try with that crap, but I do give a shit, and I do understand what you're saying. I started the WhatsApp for that reason. We can't fix eachother, but we can chat and have a laugh without this hanging over us constantly. Be normal away from the venting on the forum, just act like we do with regular people in our lives. I definitely come across as normal, hopefully, ha. I sometimes read back old posts and wanna slap myself, I shouldn't post when I'm feeling wired. Maybe I'll look back on this one and feel the same way lol

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5 hours ago, CNL said:

It's irrational to feel an ungodly spiritual dissonance between your body and mind because a bodypart is slightly too thin or short, and it's maddening to have such a mechanism hardwired into your brain, and to know that it's hardwired, and yet have everyone question this because it's irrational. I remember reading once about an experiment where the scientists could stimulate a certain part of the brain to immediately conjure the thought of a certain color in the participant. Zap, "red," and done. No steps in between. Trying to explain why I just inherently hate having a small penis is like that person trying to explain the steps in between that aren't there. There fucking isn't one.

First @CNL  let me say you write extremely well.  

Let me ask you, strictly from the standpoint of logic, if what you say above, not just the quote but the whole statement,  is true then that every guy w a small penis would have to be quite unhappy and displeased about it to the extent that it affects their overall happiness about life because it is a hard wired mandate of evolution?  Am I missing something?  If so say so because I am not being adversarial just exercising the intellect here.  

I read a book called the handbook to higher consciousness by Ken Keyes many years ago and he asserts the notion of "preferences over addictions".  Basically it means that we all want to be young, gorgeous, brilliant, rich, but we can come to see these things (along w all our desires) as things we would prefer to have but are not addicted to having.  It doesn't have to rule us the way drugs rule the addict.  Personally I found truth and value in this viewpoint and am just sharing it in the unlikely event that it helps someone, not claiming to be right or to have all (or even any) answers. 

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