"No one ever feels a need to leave a relationship because of bad sex" [trigger warning]

[LaLa]

Hello all,

This could perhaps be useful to some of you:

https://www.theschooloflife.com/thebookoflife/should-sex-ever-be-a-reason-to-break-up/

some excerpts:

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What is fatal is not so much that our partner can’t enact our desires but that they meet us with defensiveness, coldness, judgement or indifference. 

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It might theoretically be entirely survivable if a partner never sought to have an orgasm with their companion or never fully engaged with a fantasy so long as both parties were able to feel genuinely loved and wanted. The distinction matters because, if we end up splitting, we need to know the real reason: if we persist in thinking the problem is a lack of sex (or not the kind of sex we want) we may misread what we are in essence seeking from another person: we aren’t (as we’re too often taught to think) after the perfect sexual partner, we’re after something yet more critical and often harder to secure: a good enough source of affection and understanding. 

You might try to find a woman who sees it this way (as do I, for instance - and this is proof that I'm not alone), then you may be less concerned about "being good enough in bed" etc.

I know you'll tell me it's impossible to find such a woman or that it wouldn't help anyway. But perhaps you'll find something insightful in the article anyway.

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The entire point of a relationship hangs on the feeling of being witnessed, understood, accepted, stimulated, bolstered and cherished by another person.

This may be crucial: You need to feel understood enough, including your SPS and resulting insecurities. And I know from this forum that that's usually a huge problem in a couple. But there are several wives here who genuinely try to understand and be helpful to their husband and improve their marriage. So women need more information. Open up to those who really love you and if they don't love you enough to react appropriately, then they aren't a good / suitable partner anyway.

(I hope I didn't annoy anyone too much. It wasn't my intention. I know what a sensitive topic this is, but so far, it doesn't prevent me from trying to tacle it, in a hope to share something useful.)

Edited December 4, 2019 by LaLa

[Wayless]

Relationships can feel like perfect love at first even though the sex doesn't work very well.  I agree, but it is often not the minor repairable wrinkle they think it will be.

This is because the persona is not the self.  One or both individuals can be delusional about who her or she is and who the partner  is.

 

[Toosmallforcomfort]

On 12/4/2019 at 12:02 PM, LaLa said:

But there are several wives here who genuinely try to understand and be helpful to their husband and improve their marriage.

I found this post/article to be very insightful. After we separated, I have mentioned to my wife that I have SPS after seeing a sex therapist.  Of course, I educated her on the topic.  Her email back she mentioned my lack of sexual confidence was very noticeable to her from the very start, that I was the most sexually"shy" guy she ever been with, but she loved me anyway.  She contemplated that I was gay and was my beard after she spoke with her friends. After awhile, she got bored and tired of my lack of intimacy, and does wonder how anyone could overcome this small penis lack of confidence issue.  

[Klingsor]

2 hours ago, Toosmallforcomfort said:

She contemplated that I was gay 

I've had this reaction too. I've since learned that women expect the man to be ravenous for them, completely uninhibited with a raging hard-on 24-7 so they can then either brag to their girlfriends how good you are or call you a pig with a little dick. They categorize men into 3 groups: the good, the bad, and the gay. Anything else is incomprehensible to the majority of them (about male sexuality). 

[Klingsor]

@LaLa

Speaking for myself, opening up about the problem would only make me feel worse. It would be like taking off my clothes in public - exposure, not freedom. It's very difficult for men to make themselves vulnerable, even to their own thoughts. I would say that as a man, I would think opening up about the problem would lower my attractiveness in the woman's eyes. It's like an admission of inferiority or losing and is an implicit comparison with my competitors - 99.9% of psychologically and hormonally healthy men would rather die than do this. As Klingsor, my confidence is non-existent and my self-image was destroyed years ago so I have no problems admitting it, at least anonymously.

I have mentioned in the past how my personality tends to make the relationship toxic because I go into it feeling contempt for the woman, my thought is basically this: "if you are a woman worth having, why hasn't a capable man snapped you up? Why are you with me? There must be something wrong with you." So it's doomed from the start. A "stable" relationship for me would likely be some form of cuckoldry, but I know that psychologically I wouldn't be able to handle that. 

Does that make any sense? 

[Wayless]

16 minutes ago, KlingBro said:

I've had this reaction too. I've since learned that women expect the man to be ravenous for them, completely uninhibited with a raging hard-on 24-7 so they can then either brag to their girlfriends how good you are or call you a pig with a little dick. They categorize men into 3 groups: the good, the bad, and the gay. Anything else is incomprehensible to the majority of them (about male sexuality). 

Yes, I have heard that reaction as well from several women that I communicate with over the internet.  They insist their husband is gay and can't understand he might have small penis lack of confidence or be a low testosterone male which I have suggested given the facts they rendered and my experience.

[Wayless]

3 hours ago, Toosmallforcomfort said:

She contemplated that I was gay and "SHE" was my beard after she spoke with her friends. After awhile, she got bored and tired of my lack of intimacy, and does wonder how anyone could overcome this small penis lack of confidence issue.  

Yup, that is exactly the lingo they used,  "He's gay.  I'm his beard or I DON'T WANT TO BE HIS BEARD."  And speaking with friends settles it!

Really what they mean is "you" aren't like the other men she has known that have a strong desire to have sex frequently, insist on frequent sex, very actively want to make her orgasm, and want to repeat "all night long" or at least have a short refractory period.   They want to be desired in a demonstrable way.

This has nothing to do with sps or bdd as defined by the Medical / Psychological Establishment.  It's about hormonal inadequacy though we often project it on our small penis.  According to the women with whom I discussed this, the men in question did not have a below average penis.  One was six and the other just under.

This is not to suggest that a small penis handicap does not exist.  But a woman won't get tired of a hormonally adequate man who displays normal male desire for her, even if he has a small penis, in the same way she would a man that, most of the time, doesn't seem to want her.  When one of the women I was discussing this with finally had sex outside her marriage she was totally thrilled to have a man that wanted her for a change, to feel that desire from him.  She wasn't' even concerned that the initial sex was "so so" as far as her orgasms were concerned though she did orgasm.  Soon, after they practiced, she was having multiple orgasms with him.

[Wayless]

12 hours ago, KlingBro said:

@LaLa

Speaking for myself, opening up about the problem would only make me feel worse. It would be like taking off my clothes in public - exposure, not freedom. It's very difficult for men to make themselves vulnerable, even to their own thoughts. I would say that as a man, I would think opening up about the problem would lower my attractiveness in the woman's eyes. It's like an admission of inferiority or losing and is an implicit comparison with my competitors - 99.9% of psychologically and hormonally healthy men would rather die than do this. As Klingsor, my confidence is non-existent and my self-image was destroyed years ago so I have no problems admitting it, at least anonymously.

I have mentioned in the past how my personality tends to make the relationship toxic because I go into it feeling contempt for the woman, my thought is basically this: "if you are a woman worth having, why hasn't a capable man snapped you up? Why are you with me? There must be something wrong with you." So it's doomed from the start. A "stable" relationship for me would likely be some form of cuckoldry, but I know that psychologically I wouldn't be able to handle that. 

Does that make any sense? 

Yes, it does make sense.

Women I've been intimate with have opened up and admitted suffering from abuse and a variety of psychological problems.  I knew there was something wrong with them and, to put it bluntly, I thought maybe that would lead them to accept me.  However, when they got better, partially due to my support often around finishing preparation for their career, they could then see me as I was, a substandard man that was not good for their sexual satisfaction, ego and status.  They were not primarily concerned I had a small penis, but dismissive of me not being able to handle it and/or having low sexual drive.

My reaction differs from yours only in that I suppressed the feeling of contempt and felt we were birds of a feather made for each other.

[Toosmallforcomfort]

10 hours ago, KlingBro said:

A "stable" relationship for me would likely be some form of cuckoldry, but I know that psychologically I wouldn't be able to handle that. 

My wife asked for an open relationship 5 years ago. But, I had this feeling that I, too, wouldn't be able to handle it.

[Wayless]

3 hours ago, Toosmallforcomfort said:

My wife asked for an open relationship 5 years ago. But, I had this feeling that I, too, wouldn't be able to handle it.

So, I gather you didn't agree to an open relationship so she cheated?

Two of the women I mentioned also asked for an open relationship, but got their husbands' agreement.  Of course, both women embarked on exciting recreational sex while men essentially sulked or gave-up after some abortive or somewhat embarrassing attempts.

There was no cuckolding or at least none I became aware of for 2 of the examples.  There was some embarrassing socializing with the recreational partners, though. 

With a 3rd couple their relationship quickly became 100% cuckolding after he agreed to an open relationship and failed at wife swapping.  The husband was completely cut-off from sexual contact with his wife and was pushed into homosexual acts with the bulls which the wife was delighted to observe. 

His sexual release became masturbation while watching bulls perform with his wife or listening to his wife recount experiences.  He claimed to me to be having more satisfying orgasms than ever before.  His wife was particularly fond of having her husband watch bulls give her a hard spanking and then have sex with her.  She like to perform orally for the bulls in front of the husband too as she had never allowed the husband that privilege.

The other cases I was told about and seemed credible were more complicated.

[Toosmallforcomfort]

18 minutes ago, lbaker said:

So, I gather you didn't agree to an open relationship so she cheated?

Yes. She had two affairs 4 years ago then another one for 1 and a half years that I recently found out about. One of the two four years ago she told her lover that we would be away on vacation to Key West, where he took his family at the same time and stayed at the same hotel. While there, she asked if we, me and our kids, to go see the sunset on the rooftop one evening.  We went, met a nice family up there, chatted for awhile and went on our ways.  I found out two months later from that man's wife who I had a conversation with by my investigation, that he and my wife planned the whole thing.  I never recovered from that.  I can get over the cheating, but that is probably the most sinister thing I can imagine for a married couple.  That told me a lot about her and her disdain for me. After that knowledge, I withdrew, didn't necessarily want to, but I did.

[Toosmallforcomfort]

On Sept 1st, she made an ultimatum, either I leave the house or she leaves. We have a 14 year old daughter and 11 year old son. I left and stayed with my Mom for a few weeks until I found a residency. It was within a week she was traveling an hour and a half to meet and live her new boyfriend. Since then, she has been up there when I have the kids which we have made an agreement before the divorce of trying to make it as equitable as possible for the children. She retired from her job approximately 4 years ago and she does not need to work for financial means. I work full time so therefore she has the kids mainly during the week and I have them on the weekends and during the week when I have days off. Perhaps TMI, but this is my current life.

[Toosmallforcomfort]

And while my mother, parents-in-law and brother-in-law are sympathetic, I never once got an apology from my wife. Therefore, I have to feel that she feels completely justified for her actions.

[Klingsor]

1 hour ago, Toosmallforcomfort said:

Therefore, I have to feel that she feels completely justified for her actions.

In the minds of women like this, they are always the victim. It’s your fault for even proposing marriage.

@Toosmallforcomfort it’s hard to read stuff like this man. It’s why I refuse to even attempt dating. With tinder and shit now they don’t even have to go through such a convoluted song and dance to meet up. It’s inevitable I’d be cuckolded. Also the other dude was a total party to this and yet hundreds of men will still spout some nauseating bullshit about the “bro code”. 

[Toosmallforcomfort]

25 minutes ago, KlingBro said:

It’s your fault for even proposing marriage

I don't disagree with that and I accept blame as well for being deceitful.  I knew of my issues then, but I thought I could be rescued/rehabilitated after I met. I really did. However, they crept up again, like a bad cold sore, and the rest is history. She met all her men online, such as the Ashley Madison website for the first two. Nuff said.

[Toosmallforcomfort]

She and her bf are going to Europe next week, of course on my dime, well half of it is hers according to the law, and I have our children during this time. Of course, what ever she spends for the trip is discoverable for divorce settlement and I'm entitled for half of it back. But, still, it's the principal of it all. At least it's how I feel about it. She grabbed 200k from our joint savings a account a couple weeks ago fearing I would move it to some overseas account which I would never do.  This is not legal in Florida, but would cost me several 1000s of $$$ to litigate it to get it back. So I left it alone and will subtract it as part of our settlement agreement.

[Klingsor]

Life for an average or sub-average male in 2020 is not worth living. As the incels say: LDAR (lay down and rot). 

@Toosmallforcomfort I don’t know what your financial situation is or how old you are, but if you could get the divorce finalized I’d simply let her have the kids and find somewhere very far away and retire. Or open up a small clinic. But I don’t have kids so that might not be easy for you. I just know if it were me I’d want the whole thing done ASAP so I could electroshock the last 20 years from my brain and retire in seclusion, surrounded by my books and some internet.

[Toosmallforcomfort]

10 minutes ago, KlingBro said:

I don’t know what your financial situation is or how old you are, but if you could get the divorce finalized I’d simply let her have the kids and find somewhere very far away and retire. Or open up a small clinic. But I don’t have kids so that might not be easy for you. I just know if it were me I’d want the whole thing done ASAP so I could electroshock the last 20 years from my brain and retire in seclusion, surrounded by my books and some internet.

Only if it was that easy and I have contemplated this. I'm 46, vice president/associate managing partner of one of the largest radiology groups in Florida and prior president of a county medical society. I have significant roots in the community, both philanthropy and otherwise.  I just cannot go poof,  especially with school age children. Financially, I will be fine, although very hurt by the settlement and the long term alimony, no early retirement for me.  In Florida, the spouse received half of any value minus debts of the other spouse's holdings in their ownership of a company, whether they were a vested participant or not.  Therefore, she takes half of my ownership value.  I can pay it out in a lump sum, or be included in alimony over the next 10 to 12 years which is what I'm reasonably looking at.  This will reduce me to 1/2 partner, and she will receive voting rights for the company if she wishes, but does not have to. She is not a radiologist.  I will have the option to buy back my lost interest in the company over time to make me whole again. So, if you are a woman, you and your spouse should move to Florida just in case things don't work out in your marriage. I fell for this 11 year's ago.

[Klingsor]

Holy shit...

My third and final gf spent the last 3 months we were together trying to get pregnant by me. She was cheating on me With multiple dudes the whole time, I had proof. So I have no doubt these were her plans for me. She thought (haha little did she know I can’t hold a job) I was setup for the perfect career....betabuxx for life. When she realized I couldn’t even get it hard enough to provide some sperm well the fangs came out fully unsheathed.

For the uninitiated: https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Betabux

[Klingsor]

She attempted to frame me for domestic violence using her Facebook network, but I had evidence and also old court cases where her alcoholism and psyche evaluations had almost cost her her child from a previous marriage. When I made it clear I would go public and also speak with a lawyer concerning her child and the evidence I had if her neglect, the Facebook shit stopped immediately. She ended up marrying another solid career betabuxxer and I honestly feel sorry him.

[Toosmallforcomfort]

9 minutes ago, KlingBro said:

My third and final gf spent the last 3 months we were together trying to get pregnant by me

Well for full disclosure, my wife told me that she was 6 weeks pregnant on my birthday when we were just married four weeks earlier.

[Klingsor]

One last post...I recall clearly one evening we were together at her house and her son was like preschool age and he was naked on the floor, I think she was changing his clothes or something. I pretended I was watching television but I was really watching her I remember she was inspecting and scrutinizing her son’s junk. I’d never seen her do that before. This was after she and I had become intimate and I was having problems in bed. 

[Klingsor]

The thing that terrified me the most from that experience is how easy it was for her to totally fabricate a domestic violence story around me, the abusive boyfriend, because people wanted to believe I was the “angry little man”. She had strategically let my sexual inadequacies slip around friends and that’s all it took. If I had not had proof of her habitual, compulsive lying and proof that what she had said about me was false, I honestly don’t know where it would have stopped. She had absolutely no remorse whatsoever, did not care how it destroyed my life. I honestly have PTSD from her. It was a waking nightmare the whole time we were together.

If you are average in looks and/or below average in bed, you young guys be especially careful. No amount of caution is too much.

[Toosmallforcomfort]

Perhaps we can write for the Lifetime TV network as a side gig.

[Toosmallforcomfort]

My Mother thinks she had all this planned from the very beginning. She is very intelligent, her IQ is 140, more attractive than I am given our XX/XY differences, and one of her best friends is a divorce lawyer (not representing her). Perhaps I'm in denial.