I hate you/I need you.

[ForgetRegret]

I know it's not easy being with someone who has bpd and other mental issues.. and I give thanks to the people in my life who really tried <3

I just don't know but there's just something about me that always drives people away.. I can't keep friendships. Something always happens, whether they die, I withdraw, we go our different ways, in the end it seems like I'm always just left here with my thoughts. I feel like I am two people stuck in one body.. One part of me is compassionate and sensitive and understanding, the other part of me is vicious, angry, and lack emotion.. Even if it's the littlest thing that sets me off.. BOOM that Nasty side takes over, and I can't control it.. I say hurtful things to others, the rage takes over and I'm just not there.. My boyfriends ovger the past have always said.. " Who are you ?| It's like I don't know you.. One minute you love me and the next you hate me and want me out of your life " " I don't see that you love me, it's like you don't care about me or about anything, you don't give a f*** " Ahhhh... I just wish there was SOMEWAY to get rid of the nasty side of me.. and not let the anger and hate consume me the way it does.. Maybe it's because now I get even more irritated cause I quit smoking and don't really have a positive release for everything that is going on.. I need to find one..

I'm not too sure what our "title" is, I don't really think there is one.. Either way we were good friends before we started dating , and we have been emotionally involved for a year and a half now.. and somedays I just don't even know who I am when I am with him.. Whenever we get into an arguement I always just get so angry and tell him to leave and that we are better off without each other, and honestly a part of that is really true.. We both need to learn to be happy on our own and have our own lives outside of each other.. But I find I am too mean to him and I don't mean to be.. it's just the way I get when I am around him, but then I'm so scared to lose him because he is my main support, if I don't have him then I have no one.. I feel he is so much better off without me, He will go places in life.. I feel I just bring him down.. He doesn't deserve that, I want to change, I just don't know how...

[Symora]

Hi Forget, I've had a tendency to do that as well and I now recognize that it's based on my insecurities and lack of self-esteem. When I get into a situation that makes me insecure, I lash out and push away. I think it's a self protection mechanism - I'm going to leave them before they get a chance to leave me, hurt me - I'm not going to give them that chance.... I am presently working with a therapist to understand that whole 'self-esteem' thing and why I jump the gun in thinking negatively about outcomes.

Are you working with someone to try to understand your motivations for acting that way Forget?

[David O]

Hi Forget,

What you describe seems like such a painful experience for you and for those around you. I was wondering if in addition to what you've described (difficulty regulating your emotions, fears of being abandoned or alone), if you often had other issues, such as:

• a pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships beyond what you've described here(yes)
  
• impulsivity in such areas as spending, sex, substance abuse, reckless driving, binge eating, etc.
  
• chronic feelings of emptiness
  
• frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment
  
• pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships
  
• identity disturbance: markedly and persistently unstable self-image
  
• impulsivity in at least two areas that are potentially self-damaging (e.g., spending, sex, substance abuse, reckless driving, binge eating)
  
• recurrent suicidal behavior, gestures, or threats, or self-mutilating behavior
  
• inappropriate, intense anger or difficulty controlling anger (yes)
  
  
• transient, stress-related paranoid thinking or possibly even some dissociative symptoms
  

My point is asking is that it seems that there may be more to this and I wanted to be sure I wasn't imagining it.

Once again, I'm sorry for what you've been going thru, it seems as if this has been a long term concern that is beginning to come to a head.

David

[ForgetRegret]

Hi Symora, yeah you're right it has a lot to do I think with my insecurities and lack of self-esteem.. Since Im so unhappy at where I am right now and don't feel confident/hate myself.. It really affects the way I interact with others.. especially friendships/relationships.. I always tend to just drive people away because of how negative I am.. and I hate it.. I want to learn to love myself and be happy and enjoy things again.. I find that when something happens that makes me angry, I just take my anger out on the closest person in my life but the real anger is mainly at myself.. I have started seeing this really nice lady, I've only seen her once but I felt real at ease when I did see her.. I'm going through this weird digestive problem right now so I'm seeing her next Friday.. I want to be able to look in the mirror and just smile you know.. rather than just hate the reflection.. I think it will change things very much.

I know the self esteem stems from my past.. I was never the "popular" kid, had barely any friends.. Had severe acne growing up and was put down and made fun of severely at school.. People always telling me I'm stupid, ugly, all the pranks they pulled, lack of support from family, etc. That was a real tough time growing up, but in the end I knew that made me so much stronger and after time I didn't care what others thought of me.. But now it seems like I'm my worst critique.. I hope I can learn to love myself and be confident..

[ForgetRegret]

Hey DavidO,

It has just been a very tought struggle since I was 13 really.. well growing up especially with all the things that happened at school was the beginning of when the depression really kicked in.. My best friend since grade 1, really my only friend passed away in grade 8.. That's when it really went downhill.. I became very suicidal and wanted to die every singly day, I loved the feeling that cutting gave me, though I never did it to kill myself.. Then I started to find anything & everything I could to fill the void, cutting, sex, drugs, alcohol.. you name it.. It was a very unhealthy pattern.. and that lasted for a long part of my life.. I came out of all of those things though on my own, because I knew I had to change.. So yeah there have always been that distorted self image of myself, and that's expected considering the circumstances.. I'm not too sure about the unstable and intense personal relationships... I tend to attach myself too quickly to others and kinda get too involved way too fast, I've always dated people for a long time.. usually a year or so each.. but ever since I can remember I have always had so much trouble handling my emotions and controlling my anger.. Seems like Im either black or white, never in between.. Plus I've always struggled with my identity, since being adopted and never knowing my background, I've always felt like I didn't know who I was, and today I guess I still don't.. I used to have impulse behaviour with sex, drugs, and alcohol.. but not anymore.. been completely clean for almost 3 years now, barely even drink once a month.. but I find that I still need something to deal with everything that's going on and I feel that I don't know what that is still.. I'm going to be taking this anger management course and I'm seeing this new counsellor.. but it just feels like there are too many things I need to work on.. If I talked to you when I was 13/14 I would have told you that I am numb and just can't feel, the walking dead girl.. I've had depression since then and have managed it the best I can.. but obviously I still need a lot of work.. The main thing right now I have is trying to deal with my negative thoughts, about myself, about where I should be, lack of family support, etc.. I need to find my motivation/will power.. doesn't feel like I have anything anymore.

[Symora]

Sounds like you have been through a lot Forget, but I'm impressed by how self aware you are about it all.... It seems to me that you would do well to get some good professional therapeutic help since you have already understood a lot of things but just don't know how to move ahead from there ....

[ForgetRegret]

Yeah I think you're right, seems like I'm just stuck here and don't really know the next direction to take.. I want to learn to be happy on my own but there a part of me just doesn't think I would be able to handle that.. I hate feeling alone, of course it's nto a nice feeling but I feel like when I'm just with anyone it makes me feel nice knowing that someone is there, or making up for the loneliness in my past.. but then once they leave it's like I'm a lost kid in Harrods.. I need to learn how to handle everything.. and I really hope this new lady will be able to help.. I find it takes so much trial and error to find the proper help, meds, treatment, counselling, cause I find most professionals I see just care about money/lack interest in who you really are.. and aren't there to listen.. It's nice with this lady because it's covered under OHIP and it really seems like she genuinely cares, so that's rare to find.. I just need to learn to take it one day at a time, I'm always so consumed by my past/future it interferes with the present.. and it's funny cause last year was the first time out of 6 years that I was able to forgive myself and let go of a situation that happened when I was 15, but now it seems like I'm just worrying/angry all the time about how things could have been, should have been, and I overcame that with one thing.. but now it seems like I have that view of my entire life.. one thing took me 6 years to overcome, why can't I just accept the lifestyle/upbringing I had and deal with me right now.. seems next to impossible.. :S

[Symora]

I know, it sounds so easy when we say it, but to try to put into pratice is hell! I'm ancient now, and when I look back I see that many things in fact take years to work out, and I think that's just the way it is. Like when I divorced when I was 30, it took me 5 years to get over that. The anger lasted for at least 4... Working out my relationship with my dad took probably 30 years, and thank god we managed it before he passed a couple of years ago... My grandmother prayed 35 years for her son to stop drinking and become a normal human again. Some things just take time I think, and sometimes it feels like it's never going to happen ... thus my rather pitiful state of mind these days.... but that's another story:cool:

I so agree that it's hard to find a good therapist, one that you can click with. I too found someone in the fall. At first I was not too sure since he is very different from me, but he used to be a pastor and I have found that to be a great combination for me since my spiritual self plays a big role in my life.

[ForgetRegret]

Yep you are totally right, getting over certain issues in life takes a great deal of help from multiple sources, especially forgiveness and letting go & acceptance within ourselves.. I find those are very difficult things to learn, especially when you don't have the proper tools.. I find at least for myself I waste so much of my emotion/anger about things that happened in the past, it interfered with my life and held me back.. and I knew it was unhealthy but the memories/emotions were always there.. There's this really nice inspirational book I'm reading by Louise Hay.. You can heal your life.. Have you read it?? And it's unfortunate that we have to go through those things that break us down in order to get the strength, but do the tests ever end?? Especially when we are dealing with situations that happened, it takes years to overcome one thing, and then you look back and it's just like where did that time go..I'm happy that things got resolved between you and your father before he passed <3 It's so much horrible to have all those issues unresolved when that happens, closure can bring wonders to the heart.. and very hard to achieve.. especially within oursleves.. I'm glad you have found someone who you can talk to, because it is really hard to find that person who just "gets" you.. I find that the spiritual self is a crucial part of healing, and things can be so much more confusing when that inner child is lost.. & it can happen so quickly too..

Keep your head up <3

[Symora]

You know what my ancient self learned, no it never ends :cool:. When I was young I thought one day I would overcome tests and all would be well, but no, does'nt happen.... I think it's because the purpose of our life is to evolve spriritually, and tests are what actually make us evolve. Every virtue we possess is tested when we go through tests... perhaps they in fact have the purpose of honing our spiritual selves.

[David O]

Good morning again Calla "the flower"

Sorry it took so long to respond. I've been following the conversation though and each piece completes my image a bit more, and gives me a wider picture into just how much you've suffered all of these years. Seeing a counselor is an excellent thing and may I suggest that you get a comprehensive evaluation to rule out anything more serious. My suspicions are, and we don't diagnose here, that you may be experiencing some of the traits found in Borderline Personality Disorder, the clear give-aways were in you opening post and it became more evident in your response to my questions.

I'm not suggesting that you have this condition as much as I'm thinking that oftentimes it's really good to be able to give your experience a name (if it has one, or to rule it out if you don't) and to understand that so much of this is beyond your current control (which you can change thru good therapy). I also wanted to suggest that you explore Dialectical Behavior Therapy with your counselor-- this is likely the most effective intervention for much of what you've been describing.

You can read up further on it here:http:

www.palace.net/~llama/psych/dbt.html

and for a more comprehensive or expanded version, you can go here:

www.priory.com/dbt.htm

Sometimes solutions, be they deeply and profoundly spiritual or simply the capacity to move thru your day feeling balanced and emotionally in control, can be found as fruit in the branches of the tree and other times in the roots. Most fruit is in the branches (and most people spend their lives digging thru the roots and avoid the branches), but in this case, they are in both places.

Symora, I doubt that you're ancient but am much more sure that you have an ancient soul, refined repeatedly by your painful life events which are now the very lifeblood of your being.

With much compassion and understanding,

David O

[Symora]

That was so helpful for me as well David... it may in fact be my missing link since I was invalidated strongly during critical years and I know everything went out of sinc after that from an emotional standpoint... failure to acquire the skills required for emotion modulation, tend to show self-invalidation of their own responses.... Good food for thought in my self-esteem journey...

What does negative affect mean, as in <tend to inhibit negative affect>, and also <dialectical dilemna>?

[ForgetRegret]

Hello again David & Symora..

Yes I was diagnosed as having BPD in december.. so I have done a lot of research on bpd and have bought books, etc.. I was in this group thing at the hospital about learning some CBT skills, different ways to handle our emotions, etc.. But I find that when I get into a difficult situation/emotional one.. I can only act with my emotions and not with my head.. It's like I don't know how to not be so sensitive and let the sadness/anger take control over my thoughts and my words.. I stopped going to that group because I didn't really think it was helping.. but I'm gonig to start again on Tuesday I think..

Thank you for that website, David!! It's very intriguing.. funny cause what I was just talking about explains it in here..

"The Theory

Basically, DBT maintains that some people, due to invalidating environments during upbringing and due to biological factors as yet unknown, react abnormally to emotional stimulation. Their level of arousal goes up much more quickly, peaks at a higher level, and takes more time to return to baseline. This explains why borderlines are known for crisis-strewn lives and extreme emotional lability (emotions that shift rapidly). Because of their past invalidation, they don't have any methods for coping with these sudden, intense surges of emotion. DBT is a method for teaching skills that will help in this task."

Funny because I think both of those were a factor, my upbringing and the fact that my birth mom also had severe mental issues as well.. Since this has been a way of life for me for a very long time, it seems like I need to learn how to live all over again.. like a child learning to walk.. and it can be so hard at times, to change your reactions/thoughts.. I think it's one of the hardest things to do.. But I def will bring this up to my counsellor when I see her next.. Thank you

Also, Symora.. I find it hard to find my spiritual self.. I was taking this meditating course and found that very interesting, and have always love astrology and such things like that.. But I just feel so disconnected from myself spiritually and don't know how to really deal with that.. but I guess the main thing starts with self approval and acceptance, and I think that's going to be a lifetime process.. What helped you with the spirituality issue??

[Symora]

I searched and searched for years. Was a Catholic, an atheist, agnostic, new age, explored buddhism, taoism, read diffferent gurus and although they all made sense to me, I always felt there was something missing for the complete picture. Then through a very serendipidous series of events I ended up reading Baha'u'llah. It was as if something opened up inside of me, I kid you not. Within months it transformed me and I was suddently cognisant of another reality within me. He says that the Word of God is extremely powerful on the heart and I believe it . I was also very fortunate that I had my grand-mother near me, the only true believer in my life, and what an role model she was in that respect. So as I learned things and saw things, I had someone to discuss it with and mentor me. My X was also a believer and religious, and that also helped me to expand my understanding. I'm struggling now because they are both gone and I don't have one single believer in my circle, noone to share that part of me with, and it's a big hole.... That is my prayer lately, someone to continue that conversation with. My new therapist is OK, a bit dry for my taste, but we can talk about faith, but I only see him once a month and can't afford more...

All of that being said, my issues with depression and low self-esteem continue to nip at my heals ... what is better now is that I have the comfort and solace of prayer and faith to help me along :-)

[ForgetRegret]

Hello again!! How are you doing today?? I was going to post this to your profile but it was too long, so here it goes..

Hi Symora<3, I know what you mean about the balnk feeling.. for a very long time.. well I guess it started when my only best friend passed away when I was 13 due to cancer, that it felt like half of me just died.. Since I had a lot of pain/insecurity growing up.. For a very long time I tried to fill that void, but now as an adult after stopping the "negative void fillers" I find that I'm more lost now then I have ever been. It sounds like you have experienced a lot of pai in your life, and remember that you are a wonderful women, whoever makes you feel otherwise to hell with them! It frustrates me so much that family can be so insensitive, and not emotionally there. Growing up my parent's weren't really there for me emotionally, with me acting a certain why they would just get angry and yell, rather then talking to me and trying to understand.. Always seemed like my mom was always too wrapped up with her work to really care.. I wish I had learned the right skills to deal with this, because it has been a problem for so long, too long.. And that's a really good question, I was never able to deal effectively with emotional situations, because no one ever taught me how.. and it's sad cause the family I do have a round is just not emotionally there, and that's the support I wish I had.. I'm happy we've started getting to know each other!! I know, it still seems to me that I'm learning how to live again.. and it's really hard somedays.. *hug*

That is really inspiring that you have found your spiritual self, even though it took you a long time.. Some people never do.. I think it's one of the hardest things to do, especially when you were never raised in a spiritual upbringing.. but I think it's important for everytonr to believe in something, whatever that may be.. It seems like the journey is going to last forever.. I'm so lost when it comes to that.. I'm sorry about the loss of your grand mother and your x , especially because they were a good support for you.. It's so hard losing people close to us, but remembering all the good times and the lessons they taught will forever live on.. I wonder if there are any places around your area/online forums that you can talk about that spiritual side of yourself?? I know that people here would love to hear more about it if you were willingto share, just to even get it off your chest.. Do you think there are support groups in your community you could attend? I wish there were more services out there available for people who can't afford much and need counselling.. At least this site is free hehe.. You have support and love here .. Also, have you read any of Louise Hay Books?? I would recommend them.. she's very inspirational..

Keep your head up high

[Symora]

I appreciate you're being there too! Yeah, I've lived a lot of pain, but who hasn't right:( I think the intensity of it has been disproportional to the events some time, because of the way I process things, and that's what I want to learn about. I'm like one of those tortured souls .. probably should have been have been a starving artists...:cool: In french we say <le mal de vivre>... I am much better now than I was when I was young though, I was really confused then! Now life has taught me a lesson or two, and when I'm too tortured by someting I move away from it now, rather than trying to force myself to stay, which was easier when I was young and had more energy.

The more I think about it though, the more I see that it does have to do with that <invalidation> thing, and how like you there was no emotional support and interaction within my family. I was very lucky in that I had my grandma, and she was strong in that area. She was all about support and encouragement. In my immediate family it was about denigration, ostracisation and physical abuse - my being the scapegoat and all ... What I've always struggled to understand is that with time my relationship with my dad changed and we ended up getting along fine, yet I still had that empty feeling and emotional warpedness :-) Now I get it, like you I never learned how to manage emotions properly, in fact the distorted isolated feeling became the norm...

In haven't read Louise Hay, what does she write about? I have about 10 books strewn all around me, but I've become is enchanted with the interaction in this forum that I've neglected my readings... :-)

So tell me about the treatment program you're in? I've tried so many things over the years, but I have not found anything to be very effective long term. I'm finding CBT helpful, but trying to do it my own is challenging. How did you get into the program?