memories

[Endlessnight]

I did ask my two other nieces if they wanted to move into my bedroom with me but they both refused. I asked my nephews also, because I know if I didn't, my sister in law and my brother would be mad that I had a room all to myself. When I wanted to remove my niece's bed, at first my sister in law didn't want me to, but I finally did remove it from my room. I felt guilty though I know I shouldn't have.

Now, yes it's nice to have my own room but I do still miss my niece and at times I feel lonely.

I'm not sure if my niece is enjoying being married or not. She doesn't talk much and has never been one to express her feelings. I ask her if she is happy and she says 'of course' which isn't the best answer in my opinion, but that's what she says so I hope she is.

[LaLa]

I felt guilty though I know I shouldn't have.

But what's the guilt about? Guilty for what? What's wrong about removing a piece of furniture you don't want to have there?

Now, yes it's nice to have my own room but I do still miss my niece and at times I feel lonely.

I see... And how often can you visit her?

I'm not sure if my niece is enjoying being married or not. She doesn't talk much and has never been one to express her feelings. I ask her if she is happy and she says 'of course' which isn't the best answer in my opinion, but that's what she says so I hope she is.

Well, yes; it's hard to estimate something like that from what people say, especially if they are, as you say, not used to express their feelings... I hope something positive and more convincing can be deduced at least from her "non-verbal communication"...

[LaLa]

So, we came back from the dinner about an hour ago. It was very pleasant , they are nice people and very easy to talk to, so... We're just very over-eaten !... Maybe we should fast tomorrow!

Just for comparison (as the dusk and dawn are in other times here than in SA...): They start easting at 20:40 and then are awake all night, often meeting friends, ... and then they eat at 3:00, go to sleep (after the prayer, of course) and wake up around 10:00.

How are you, M.?

[Endlessnight]

Hello Lala, I'm glad you enjoyed your 'iftar'. Yesterday I was feeling dizzy every time I stood up, but today I feel okay.

The other day I was in my room and my brother knocked and came in. Whenever he comes in my room I have a panic attack - it's usually not a good thing. He asked me about my psychiatrist. That shocked me, first because I've never told him or anyone in the family I see one, and second, I was wondering what would come next. My brother intimidates me so much I never question him, so instead of asking how he knew I just answered his questions. Finally, I was able to ask him why he was asking. He said he wasn't happy with the guy he was seeing - another shock. I hadn't known he was seeing one. He said he's been seeing one for 15 years now. It was around 15 years ago that he stopped being physically violent, so now i know the reason I guess. He said he was being treated for anxiety, but I think it was for more than that. I was actually starting to feel sorry for him, but as we talked, at the back of my mind was the question - how does he know I see a psychiatrist? He must have gone through my room and my stuff when I'm not there. I was so mad but wasn't able to say anything because either he will deny it, or he will say, yes I did, what are you going to do about it? Though I've known, or rather suspected, that he does go through my things, It was still a shock to realise my suspicion was justified. I feel I have no privacy, nothing that is mine, not even my own health.

[Luna-]

What a shock. M, I would also feel my privacy was violated.

[LaLa]

Oh, that sounds very unpleasant... I'm very 'sensitive about' my privacy, so... I can relate to the bad feelings about something like he's done...

But without this part/aspect, it would be a positive news: He decided to ask you for help (even giving an info is a kind of help), he revealed one of his secrets to you, you've finally understood something quite important about him. And maybe he'll see your doctor and maybe he'll be more helpful to him and that would have a positive impact on the family, including you.

BTW; when does he plan to move (with the family) out of the town?

[LaLa]

How are you, M.?

[Endlessnight]

I'm okay Lala, thank you. I hope you and your husband are well. Ramadan ends in a couple of days.

I read this on an online site and though I'm not an atheist, a lot of it applies to me, maybe not so much now, but how I felt in my first years living here.

My mother and father are both active participants and activists in and for the Islamic community. Me – oh me? I am a godless secular humanist atheist. Unfortunately, I am still in the closet for the sake of my life.

I am so sick and tired of pretending to care about & follow Islam.

I am so sick of wearing that stupid hijab on my head. (I asked if I could substitute it for a shawl, only to be called a whore in return.)

I am so sick and tired of being asked to memorize the quran.

I am so sick and tired of NOT being able to express my thoughts.

I am so sick and tired of hearing their racist, sexist, homophobic, bigoted and factually wrong stances.

Too bad, I am still financially dependent on them… When I look at my other atheist and humanists friends, they are enjoying their lives to the fullest. They can partake in those atheist events and campaigns. Most of my ex-Muslim friends do not come from fanatical Muslim families like I do. They do not have to wear the hijab OR be forced to go to madrasahs to learn. So it is easier for them to hide their apostasy and express themselves. They can wear whatever they want, go wherever they want, say whatever they want, do whatever they want. Me?

“As long as you are living under our feet, you will do our bidding.” – My parents.

I am living in prison.

My mom beat me in public when she found out I wrote a love poem. She thought I had lost my virginity. Truth is: I have never dated anyone in my life. She warned me that she will not hesitate to skin me alive if I ever do lose my virginity before marriage. I believe that this is the very same mindset that contributes to the culture of honor killings. For these people, it is what the community says and thinks of them that matter, not the welfare of their children.

I have spoken in favor of LGBTQIA rights before, particularly transgender’s rights when they decided to spew transphobic sentiments on me. That was the last time I ever spoke about such things because they threatened to stop my education as it was imparting ‘disgusting and immoral’ values in me. They made many vile remarks about the LGBTQIA community that I do not wish to mention them.

Once, I questioned Islam and its philosophy too much my parents told me that I am to quit school because the ‘secular’ education is corrupting me. They threatened me and said that they would enroll me in a religious school so I could earn a degree in Islamic theology, then they would ship me back to my home country and marry me off to some weird religious fanatic dude and that he would take care of me. But I begged and cried. They eventually came around and ‘forgave’ me. I never questioned Islam in front of them ever since.

Everyday – EVERY FREAKING DAY - I am told how a girl should NOT be liberal; “Being conservative is the best. Old is gold.” Same old *beep* I am not allowed out of the house except to go to school or to follow my parents somewhere. They would quote me the Qur’an to justify their bigotry. This is happening in a first world country! There is no escaping this. My aunt told me that the more a girl stays at home, the purer she is. My father told me that if a woman can’t do house work, doesn’t get married and has no kids, she is useless and that her existence is absolutely unnecessary. I didn’t know that the female gentalia is required to do housework.

My parents have openly declared that Islam’s misogyny is justified because women ARE second class citizens. The main reason? “Women are not as strong as or as smart as men.” Excuse me? I didn’t know that every country elects its leaders based on physical fitness test. I didn’t know a person’s worth and rights are determined by his/her physical strength. And what about women like Hillary Clinton, Fawzia Koofi, Malala Yousufzai, Ada Lovelace, Hedy Lamarr, Grace Hopper, Marie Curie, Hypatia of Alexandria, Frida Kahlo, Judith Butler, Chandra Mohanty and Bernadette Devlin? These women revolutionized the world too!

Do you know what will happen if they find out about the real me, my aspirations, my ideas, my thoughts?

1) Stop my education

2) Marry me off!

I really, really yearn to just say I am an atheist loud and proud. That’s all. To just wear what I want to wear. To say what I am dying to say. That is out of the question of course – they would slut shame me whenever I wear make-up, or wear ‘tight clothing’, or talk to boys. “Which boy are you serving tonight?” they would ask. For goodness’ sake! I don’t live, eat, dress or exist for men! I want to look good and boost my confidence. I want to take control of my life without getting threats or insults from them. I wanted to date someone but stopped because of my family. I have wanted to do so many things but I am stopped by my family. Just because I am a GIRL, I must be protected, I must be conservative, I must be silent and unheard. I feel that human beings are the only species that raise their daughters deliberately weak and reliant on their male counterparts, whereas the other living beings raise their children as resilient as possible to ensure that they are among the survival of the fittest....

[LaLa]

I'm pleased to hear from you and that you're OK !

We are quite fine, thanks .

It's a very sad and insightful text, thanks for sharing it... I hope the girl won't be recognized and then punished for writing it!...

I suppose it will get much better for her when she'll become an adult and have a job, as she lives in a non-(entirely)-Islamic country, as it seems to me from what she wrote.

[finding my way]

How are you doing, En? How is your health?

[Endlessnight]

Hi Finding, how are you doing? It's always good to hear from you.

I'm up and down at the moment, sleeping way too much - 10 + hours. I don't want to close my eyes at night, then I don't want to get up in the morning.

[LaLa]

10 hours doens't have to be too much - it's possible that you need it, for some reason. What does seem worrisome to me is the last sentence ...

I can imagine not wanting to get up in the morning, as the day may feel somehow "uninviting" , but why don't you want to close you eyes in the evening?

Hugs!

L.

[LaLa]

M., is it possible for you to listen to this (secretly)? It reminded me of you very quickly as it's mostly about women's rights in Muslim countries.

http://www.cbc.ca/id...le-encounter-2/

(In any case, you can at least look at the websites listed there...)

It's about Afghanistan, but that doesn't make it less interesting for you or anybody, I suppose. It's very surprising in a very positive way...

[finding my way]

I'm doing ok. Gearing up for another season of working all the time!

Do you enjoy music at all, En?

[LaLa]

How are you, M? I'd like to hear from you...

(I wasn't here (on the forum) for few weeks, btw.)

[Endlessnight]

Hello Lala. I haven't been on here in weeks either. For two months now I haven't been myself. I don't know how to explain how I've been though except to say it was an absence of 'being'. I finally went to the pdoc though a few days ago. He gave a clinical name to what I was experiencing which I don't remember and said I needed to up my dosage of meds and he added a new med to what I was already taking. A few days before I went to the pdoc I had started having insomnia again. Since I started taking the Seroquel at night I have been sleeping well, sometimes too well as I had posted before about me sleeping 10 - 12 hours. Then suddenly for a few days I wasn't able to get any sleep. I would be awake until after 5AM. Anyway the pdoc said I should take one whole seroquel for a while (I had been taking only 1/2 or 1/4 before). The extra med he prescribed is called Wellbrutin 150mg once a day. When he said I had to up my dosages of meds I didn't know whether to cry or be relieved. One the one hand I already feel like I'm drugged up most of the time so my head feels like it's filled with cotton wool, on the other hand I was hoping I might start feeling more myself again. At times I want to stop taking all my meds and see what happens. Maybe I can make a new start with everything. I know that the meds did make a difference in my life at the beginning, but now I'm wondering if they are doing more harm than good.

From the dreams I have been having for a long time now today I was clear headed enough to realise this:

1. I am continually trying to catch up, but I don't know to what

2. nothing I do is enough

3. nothing I do is right

[LaLa]

Hello, M.; thanks for your news!

As you know, it always takes some time to see if the meds have a good effect on you . In any case, if you ever decide to stop taking them (to see how it is like without them), then, please , don't do it just yourself and/or abruptly - the doctor should know and recommend the appropriate successive decrease of dosage. In other case, you wouldn't avoid bad withdrawal effects...

I already feel like I'm drugged up most of the time so my head feels like it's filled with cotton wool

It's an interesting comparison. It doesn't sound "bad", but I see it's upsetting to you. How would you describe the feeling of being "drugged" except for this feeling of "head filled with cotton wool" (and, in the past, sleeping a lot)? Is this "absence of being" included?

And has it already changed when you now changed the meds?

I'm thinking about the feeling of not being yourself... Have you any more ideas about it? I hope it won't be inappropriate to share some of mines... Could it be a reaction (involuntary, of course) to your situation - to the fact that you'd prefer, from one point of view, "not being"? It was perhaps an "attempt to escape from your reeality". But as it lead you to go to the pdoc, I presume it was (also?) unpleasant for you. So... it seems like a good sign that you don't want to escape and you prefer being yourself again (-as you wrote).

And no when the "absence of being" is over, do you already feel it has an advantage? Because you mentioned only the 3 things you realized and those sound... at least the 2nd and 3rd, very negatively judgmental... But the 1st one sounds like a good question: What are you trying to "catch up"? Is it important or it's a kind of fallacy and there's no need to catch up?

Some questions to the 2nd and 3rd point:

- "Enough" for what? (Is it even possible for humans to do "enough" for reaching their/our often too big aims?) And why - because you're not motivated to try harder or because you feel like unable to do more?

- "Right" in whose eyes? Who can judge what is really right?

...

I'm sorry it's so hard and complicated...

I'm sending you a big hug (it seems you haven't received one for quite a long time )...

[Endlessnight]

Dear Lala, thank you for the hug. I did need one as I haven't been happy with myself for a long while now.

I don't know if this is a sign that the new drug is working or not but yesterday I started to feel again - by crying, which is something I haven't done in a long time. I think that sometimes the meds can be too 'calming' for want of a better word - to the point where you feel nothing. Crying at least means I'm feeling.

Could it be a reaction (involuntary, of course) to your situation - to the fact that you'd prefer, from one point of view, "not being"? It was perhaps an "attempt to escape from your reeality". But as it lead you to go to the pdoc, I presume it was (also?) unpleasant for you. So... it seems like a good sign that you don't want to escape and you prefer being yourself again (-as you wrote).

I am conflicted about this Lala. Yes, if given the choice I would choose to 'not be'. But since I don't have the courage to kill myself, then at least if I'm alive I want to be 'myself' and not the great absence of presence I have been feeling for months.

Thank you for your friendship and concern Lala. I do appreciate it. I want to write more but I can't right now. Take care.

[malign]

M, you have to give yourself some credit: sadness is a feeling too, so you're not "feeling nothing". What you can hope for is a chance to feel good things as well as the bad. Personally, I think you have a better chance of that once you reach stability on the meds, rather than off them. It's your choice, of course, but if you're taking them irregularly, for instance, they won't stabilize at all, and that's probably worse than nothing.

Can you work with the ideas (they're thoughts, not feelings) that "nothing" you do is enough, or right? That kind of absolutism sounds a lot like depression talking ...

Oh, and I'm sending you a hug, too. :-)

{Sometimes I talk too much.}

[Endlessnight]

Thank you Mark. You never talk to much as far as I'm concerned. It's not that I do want to stop the meds, I am not sure if they are working for me lately. Is it possible to get to a place with meds where they no longer have an effect, or at least the effect is less? I guess I am depressed. I am frustrated at the way I've been feeling and acting for so long now. I feel lost.

[IrmaJean]

I'm sorry you are feeling depressed, M. Have you asked the doctor about the effect of your medications? From what I understand it can take some time to find the best dosage and combination that works most efficiently.

I hope today is okay for you. Take care, M.

[LaLa]

M., I've been only on one pmed once in my life (~1,5 year), a very low dose od an AD (mirtazapine), for decreasing anxiety and I used to be confused "about" the effects, too. It helped me much sooner than the chemical/biological effect could really take place (so presumably a strong placebo effect, although I "didn't believe it could happen", so it's funny as for placebo effect, you have to believe... but probably I became so very calm just thanks to the fact that the treatment started and I expected it to help sometime in future). The first months (4-5??), it seemed to me my anxieties were really much lower. Then a strange stage came when it seemed to me that all my emotions were very attenuated and I was somehow incredibly "stable", no excitement, no strong feelings. I didn't know if it was the effect of the drug, I didn't ask my pdoc/therapist, but some people on this forum suggested that it was probably caused by the AD. I'm not sure as... I think my therapy itself had strong effects on me and those were hard to distinguish from those of the med. But after some weeks, my emotions started to be stronger again - but I don't know if it wasn't only because it was then that something "troubling" happened and then my therapy became also much fuller of strong emotions as I opened "the worst topic"... I'd say that except for the first 7-8 months (the two periods I described), the effect of the med seemed to be to "cut off" the "absurd everyday anxiety" but let me to be able to have unpleasant emotions in situations where they seemed appropriate to me, but I've never knew how much it was really caused by the med and how much by therapy and my overall changes. When I stopped taking it, I didn't perceive any difference.

When I think about taking an AD for depression but not doing any changes (therapy, changes in life / lifestyle, ...), then I imagine that it helps to overcome the worst symptoms of depression, but you might become frustrated after some time because you realize that you'd need "something more", a big(ger) change instead of just "attenuating the pain" - and this realization and unfulfilled expectations might cause additional pain, so it seems to you that the AD isn't working. It's all just my fantasy, it's not based on any biological or clinical data, of course. I'm sorry; maybe I could find something on the web about the longterm effects of AD treatment - how many people complain that their med "stopped working", what then helped them, ... (However, I uesd to read quite a lot about depression and its treatment and didn't see this kind of complaints, so it might by... not very frequent (?).) Have you tried to search for this kind of info?

(Different topic)

BTW; I've heard more about the system of employment in SA and learned that one needs to have "a guarantor" (sorry, I forgot how they're called ) only if he/she isn't a foreigner (at least a foreigner from a non-Muslim country)! So it led me to the question: Couldn't you obtain English citizenship?? Then even if you want to stay where you live now, you'd have the possibility to work/be employed legally without the need to be a slave! I'm afraid I'm very naive now again , but... isn't it worth at least the effort to find out what you would have to do to obtain the citizenship?

I know that the illegality of your status isn't your only problem, but... maybe fixing this would be a good aim - something to work on and something to enjoy (?)... (From my experience and from what I've read, "having (almost) no aims / tasks" can be a good ground for depression...)

Edited September 24, 2013 by LaLa3
added something

[Endlessnight]

Mark:

sadness is a feeling too, so you're not "feeling nothing"

But I only started to feel that sadness after the meds adjustment. Before that I don't know where I was - it's like I wasn't present in my body.

Beth, thank you. I too hope the adjusted meds can help me get back to a place where I am at least okay.

Lala,

but you might become frustrated after some time because you realize that you'd need "something more", a big(ger) change instead of just "attenuating the pain" - and this realization and unfulfilled expectations might cause additional pain, so it seems to you that the AD isn't working.

Your comment makes sense to me. I guess 'attenuating the pain' is no longer enough for me. So what do I do now? I wish I knew the answer.

All foreigners, whether Muslim or non-Muslim must have a guarantor to work here. I do have British citizenship, which I've never claimed, but it would make no difference. I still can't work without the guarantor.

[LaLa]

M., I'm sorry I posted (again ) an info which contradicts what you know (about the guarantors). I had it from a reliable source (at least it seemed so!)... I'm planing to write you more about it privately (when I'll know more about it). In any case; I think it's good that you still have your British citizenship - maybe it will be useful for you sometime.

So what do I do now? I wish I knew the answer.

It's almost like the "to be or not to be" question, yet there you, at least, have only two options to choose from...

I'm now thinking about it very generally and it reminded me one of the quotes I have in my "signature" here (the last one)... Decision-making is so hard ... I wish I could make it somehow easier for you. Does writing, sharing your thoughts, help at least a bit? To me, writing is essential when I have a lot to think about - it even somehow "forces me" to think more or more clearly.

May I ask you (I don't want it to sound somehow "rude" or insensitive, I'm just interested in your "state", in the way you're experiencing your problems, ...): Do you think about this (= "what to do?") a lot or do you rather avoid it "to protect your mood", so to say? And when you think about it, how does it feel? And how does it go = "in circles", do you always jump to the same conclusion, are you always stopped by a particular fear, ...? I'm asking to provoke your thoughts about the question if there's an avoidable problem in the way you're trying to find / decide "what to do".

(((M.)))

[LaLa]

M., how are you?

Are the meds better now, have you "adjusted" well to the higher dose?

I'm often thinking of you...