Virginity Hit

[somebody25]

I know you're not supposed to hate people you don't know personally but... I think I hate the makers of this movie.

There's a movie called Virginity Hit about twelve year olds who are desperate to lose their virginity. They seriously look like twelve. So apparently I missed the boat when I was like thirteen. Freaking fantastic.

And oh look, what lovely biillboards the movie has put up: http://www.deadline.com/2010/08/sony-pic-billboards-offer-help-for-virgins-and-cause-nationwide-controversy/

Something else to make me feel bad about myself. Thanks Sony pictures.

[malign]

Well, I'd hate the idea, too, but I doubt that I'd post links to its promotional materials. Would you like to take care of that, or should I? :-)

[malign]

Did I say "not allowed"?

I simply questioned the wisdom of raising their Google score.

[somebody25]

Surely I can at least put the link to the news article up about the billboard controversey? I thought I was running into some kind of forum rule or something. But I see your point about the trailer. I was just hoping for some... I dunno empathy or something. Watching that trailer made me feel like I was an alien visiting some far away planet because it defintily doesn't reflect any version of reality I've ever been in.

[malign]

I'm not against you, here, somebody25.

I was a 40 year old virgin, when the movie of the same name came out.

I'd have to say I agree with your outrage about the stupidity of the idea.

I am, literally, only suggesting not helping them get more press, that's all.

[malign]

I'm sorry, I'm a little distracted, and I guess I did kinda seize on the links.

It's just that I find it easier to ignore stupidity like this movie, whether it's because of age or ... age, probably. :-) It helps to have seen a lot of stupidities, to know that the world view of these filmmakers doesn't have to match mine, to not care so much what others think ... I guess that's still not a very empathic answer, is it?

I guess what it comes down to is that I have faith, not necessarily of religious origin, that when the time is right, we know it. And no one else does, or can tell us when it "should" be.

[beehummingbird]

I was a 40 year old virgin, when the movie of the same name came out.

I actually cried when I watched The 40 Year Old Virgin . I was in a depressed mood, when I thought I would watch a comedy to cheer myself up, but I just sat there crying my eyes out and thinking "Thats me in 20 years time, and there's nothing I can do to stop it"

Truly pathetic I know

[Mark]

I think links to articles and even videos are fine so long as it is clear enough that the poster is not trying to market them. What we want to avoid is spam. links that help amplify or illustrate a point someone wants to make in the service of talking about their issues are fine.

This is a hard problem to solve in some sense (e.g., unwanted virginity). I can remember struggling with it myself.

From the male POV there is a strong anxiety component and you can feel absolutely paralyzed. There can be a lot of shame associated with the whole thing. You can feel *extremely* self-conscious. And then there can be a feeling of not knowing how to act.

Related to the shame issue can be a set of self-defeating beliefs such as "I don't deserve ..." "s/he's out of my league". There may be beliefs about feeling impure, or not pure enough, etc. The overall tone of these self-defeating beliefs is that you are not good enough, and from this flows the thought that you are not capable and do not deserve.

The way things are traditionally set up, men cannot come out and ask for what they want - it's too much; too forward in most cases. Instead, they are forced into roles they may not feel up to occupying - the "seducer", for instance. How do you project a feeling of confidence when you are frightened and embarrassed and waiting to be rejected?

The men who 'fall through the cracks' in this regard and who do not resolve the issue early on in their teens seem to respond in different ways - some give up - some read seduction books and try to approach it as though it is a set of rules and behaviors you can master - as though sex is a game. The latter men may have great success, but their anxiety puts them into a place where they are relating to objects rather than people. That solves the problem, but creates a worse problem (IMHO). Sex does not cure loneliness. Love cures loneliness.

From the other side of things, when the problem has been solved and is now in the past, I can tell you that the problem is not the virginity, and not the sex (which is really not that hard to figure out once you get to practice a little bit) but rather the anxiety, shame, and embarrassment. If you can solve the anxiety, shame and embarrassment, and the sense of not being good enough or not being capable, all of which keep you paralyzed, then you are free to solve the sex problem, which is generally not really a hard problem at that point. Dating is always a numbers game and it is pretty important that you reject incompatible partners before getting too serious with them (so that you don't have to reject them after you are deep in a relationship), but honesly, most sexually mature people want to have sex pretty much - so long as they are attracted to the prospective partner and not otherwise "off the market". And if they like you (are sexually attracted to you), and you like them, the rest flows.

Does any of this resonate with your experience, somebody25? What is your experience? What keeps you so paralyzed?

Mark

[somebody25]

A lot of that doesn't really ring a bell much since I'm a woman, but thanks anyway?

What keeps me paralyzed? I don't think I'm all that paralyzed. I was when I was younger because I have hirtusim (and made fun of quite a bit). I think I have it under control more so maybe I can at least give it a shot now...?

I see tons of women much uglier and fatter than me with decent looking guys. But I don't know where the heck they've found them. I don't enjoy going to bars, or partying, or drinking, and I guess that's where everyone meets...? Why is it so easy for everyone? How can you divorce and then get married again a year later (several of my cousins did this)? I wouldn't even lend money to someone I've only known for a year, let alone marry them. Sheesh.

I like comic books and playing video games so I thought it'd be easy to find a guy... (at least the inital dating part) but it never happened. And now I'm just really afraid of running out of time. It seems like everyone my age (in my area at least) is married with kids. I should have been seriously looking earlier. I don't know what was wrong with me.

I could die tomorrow at 26 and have never been in love or even got to try that sex thing. How pathetic would that be?

Sorry I wrote a lot. I guess I needed to vent (still hate that movie...).

ps: I apologize for being snippy with you Malign. That was uncalled for.

I actually cried when I watched The 40 Year Old Virgin . I was in a depressed mood, when I thought I would watch a comedy to cheer myself up, but I just sat there crying my eyes out and thinking "Thats me in 20 years time, and there's nothing I can do to stop it"

Truly pathetic I know

I feel you. Just going by the poster when it was in theaters made me cringe inside. I've been avoiding that movie at all costs.

[Mark]

If you do not experience yourself as paralyzed (e.g., anxious), then I wonder, are you passive about this? In other words, are you waiting and hoping that someone might approach you but not doing much to help that happen?

There is flirting and then there is flirting. If you are a more introverted person, then the sort of flirting that an extroverted woman might do (smiling, chit-chat, eye contact, touch, laughter in appropriate social settings) would not be comfortable. however, even if you aren't extroverted in that fashion, it's still important to be able to communicate to someone you find interesting that you are interested. If you do not send a signal, the guys you are interested in may miss it entirely. Some guys are really dense.

One way that some shyer women do it is to get an account on dating websites and put themselves out there. What's good about this is that when you do this, by definition you are sending a signal that you are open to a romantic or sexual relationship - if things feel right. The people you might meet are telegraphing the same thing so right at the start, the context is open to the possibility of a relationship of some sort happening. It can be awkward, frightening and even heart breaking to do this (e.g., to list one's self and seek out dates), and some people feel like losers in doing this. Most contacts met in this fashion don't work out, I think, but I know some do; I've known numerous couples who met that way.

It IS a numbers game. It can be uncomfortable. You have to resign yourself to being rejected sometimes in order to find someone who wants to be with you and vice versa. You increase your chances of something good happening when you are active about seeking it out as opposed to being more passive.

I wouldn't even lend money to someone I've only known for a year

I realize that it may not even by shyness, but maybe just an intense sense of privacy or some kind of concern or mistrust that would make it difficult for you to trust in someone you've not known for a very long time. Can you talk about that? What would you need to see from someone before you could trust them? What sort of vulnerability are you concerned about being taken advantage of if you were to trust someone prematurely?

[ChasingDreams]

Hey:)

I just wanted to mention that I was in a similar situation until I met my boyfriend at 23. I was introverted, stayed at home a lot, playing video games, etc. and wasn't very good at getting to know people in person. What I found that worked for me was online dating... I actually found him on Match.com lol When I went to meet him, after chatting and getting to know eachother for 6 months, I had my first sexual experience and well, honestly, my first any kind of physical interaction with a guyXD lmao And here I am 7 years later, with the same guy:P Not saying it works for everyone, but its definitely a way to break the ice when you aren't comfortable doing so in person, and it gives them a chance to get to know you before even seeing what you look like:P

Anyway, hope this helps. There is hope!

[somebody25]

I had to think of what to say for awhile so that's why I'm late replying...

If you do not experience yourself as paralyzed (e.g., anxious), then I wonder, are you passive about this? In other words, are you waiting and hoping that someone might approach you but not doing much to help that happen?

Well, I'm not meeting anyone at all is the problem. I also wasn't attracted to my 'weight class', but I'm losing weight like crazy now so I think I have that problem fixed. I suppose I should try out the online dating thing, although I've looked before and there are less than 10 guys on match.com within 50 miles of me and one of them is my relative...

I need to move, but darned if I know how. I've never lived anywhere else than the city and even street I live on now. I don't even know how to start.

I guess I'm just worried that the amount of time that I would feel comfortable with would seem beyond unreasonable to most men. The vibe I get is that the norm is around a month? That's what, five dates on the weekends? There is no way that will be enough for me to feel comfortable, and I feel like most guys wouldn't be willing to wait that long. I don't think time moves the same way for me as everyone else.

I realize that it may not even by shyness, but maybe just an intense sense of privacy or some kind of concern or mistrust that would make it difficult for you to trust in someone you've not known for a very long time. Can you talk about that? What would you need to see from someone before you could trust them? What sort of vulnerability are you concerned about being taken advantage of if you were to trust someone prematurely?

Well, as I mentioned, I have hirsutism... I'm not blowing anything out of proportion either, I've been medically diagnosed... I have control of the parts you can see in day to day but not all of the err... other problem areas. I don't know if a guy can really get how emotionally devasting it can be, but I want to make sure if I finally am able to get to that level of physical intimacy the guy isn't going to show visible disgust or at least, is a kind enough person to hide it. I wish I was stronger about it, but I know it would devastate me.

There's also the general pregnancy,stds,broken heart bits too I suppose. I'd like the emotional intimacy to come first rather than second to the physical intimacy like most people go about it. Sometimes I wish I was born fifty years earlier...

[Mark]

Some quick thoughts

Geography can certainly limit your choices. If you want maximum choices, you will need to look in a larger pool. That may mean moving, but these days with the internet, it can also mean looking for people in a larger city and starting correspond with them from further away. I know of at least one couple who has had success that way (although ultimately one of the partners moved to be with the other).

Having grown up in the 80s, I grew up in the period between widespread acceptance and glorification of body hair and today's hyper-denuded culture. From what I understand, the "cool kids" these days are shaving themselves pretty much bald, men and women both. Not sure what to say about that except that it does seem to be the fad lately. So what you are concerned about would seem to be a real concern. There are hair removal procedures, etc. but that costs $$ and requires maintenance. It's an option at least.

Seems like if it isn't body hair, its something else that women (and now men too) are doing to themselves to try to be more attractive. It's easy to go overboard and start to see yourself as just having the value that other people place on you. It's important to strike a balance between paying attention to how you look, but also not taking it so seriously that you become defeated by it. Everyone has flaws. Partners worth spending time with will certainly have an opinion about how you look (and might not want to get to know you in the first place if they really aren't attracted at all), but they won't get hung up on it too much either, especially after a relationship is in progress.

Given the way the culture has shifted (towards denuding), I don't think your concern is overblown. I just also think that you don't want to let something like that make you feel defeated before you ever get started. You only need one partner to choose you (and you him). There are lots of different kinds of tastes out there as well. If you go looking, you might not find someone accepting but then again you might. If you don't go looking, you almost certainly will not find someone accepting.

So far as how long is too long re: physical intimacy, that varies, but my impression is that it's not too long these days unless you are a member of some sub-culture that is more conservative and dating within that sub-culture. So - yes, - based on your description of wanting to take a *very long time* to get comfortable, you are almost certainly going to be in the position of wanting to wait beyond the time most young men would want to wait. This is not to say at all that you should compromise yourself, but rather that it is useful to know what you are up against. Without knowing that, you can't plan how to handle predictable issues that might come up.

[somebody25]

Well that's depressing. I suppose it's nice to know that my fears aren't unwarranted and I haven't developed any kind of unreasonable fears disorder.

Thanks for the honesty.

Well I did try Match.com. I'll see how that goes.

[Endlessnight]

Hello Somebody. I hope you dont mind me butting in.

I just wanted you to know you are not alone in how you feel, and to me you make perfect sense. Maybe online dating would be best at first? You don't have to go to one of those matchmaking sites you know, you can go to a chat room, chat with people, see how it goes.

Take care.

[somebody25]

Well, I've gotten several winks and emails sent my way from my profile already. I feel like a bit of a fraud though, since my profile pic came out unusually good for me. It doesn't really reveal that I'm chubby in it. Oh well. At the very least, this is good for my self esteem. :confused:

I certaintly don't mind you joining the conversation endless night. I hope more people come this way and we can develop a community that can support each other.

[Mark]

I think it's great that you've decided to try match. You don't even have to go on dates. You can just practice emailing people and getting used to the scene. It is a scene/game (e.g., a whole lot of flirting and strutting, and interviewing) so it's a good idea to keep in mind that this is not real life and you can get used to the game aspect of it as you have tolerance for it. Endlessnight is right that you don't have to do this in an explicitly dating website community, but you can do it in any community, but I think that doing so in the context of a dating community might be more to the point (since you are ultimately saying you would like to date, provided you can find a partner you feel comfortable with).

Well, I've gotten several winks and emails sent my way from my profile already. I feel like a bit of a fraud though, since my profile pic came out unusually good for me. It doesn't really reveal that I'm chubby in it. Oh well. At the very least, this is good for my self esteem. :confused:

You're being self-critical, and in the process pooping on your own parade. This is a great step and you are getting results if modest. enjoy it for a bit before you disect it and find a reason why it must be a fraud.

Consider trying an experiment. Put up a new profile somewhere (on match or some other site) with a throwaway identity and make it a picture you'd consider to be more accurate, and see what sort of results you get there. Yes more conventionally attractive pictures will get more results, but you don't need more results, so much as you need quality results. If you get one good one who sees the real you and doesn't care, that is all you need.

I didn't say that stuff about the culture having developed a fetish for being denuded to discourage you, but rather to suggest what appears to be the lay of the land these days. You can't navigate to where you want to go (generically) when you don't have a good map.

Regarding your concern over your appearance, well - you're never going to please everyone. That's just impossible. There are guys out there who like heavier women and even women who are outright fat. There are guys out there who are not phased by body hair or who like it. There are all kinds of tastes out there. I think when people are younger, they are more influenced by peer pressure on this matter and tend to conform to the stereotype of conventional beauty. As people become older and more comfortable with their own flaws, a good percentage of them (certainly not all but a lot) find that they are okay owning that they are attracted to partners who don't fit the mold. So honestly, I would not worry overly. Present yourself as well as you can - it is important to be groomed and to show an interest in your appearance - but don't try to be something you aren't. Once you rule out the superficial guys who want Barbie and who would not be interested in you (or most women) anyway, there are possibilities, and how you present yourself (e.g., confidently) becomes an important factor in your attractiveness to others. I don't want to over-emphasize appearance, but it is important and not necessarily in the way you might think. You can be unconventional looking and still get results.

Again. If you take no chances, nothing will happen almost certainly (because that's what you've been doing up until recently and nothing has happened). If you take some risks to meet people, you might not meet anyone you want who wants you, but then again you might.

Mark

[somebody25]

A guy already wants to meet me. Crap. And I was just practicing and not really attracted to him (and its only been a week). I was only talking to people lived a hundred or more miles away. I thought that would eliminate that problem. I probably shouldn't have given him my aim username so fast... I guess I'm going to sign in as invislble for awhile. I think this might make me a bad person or something. Ugh, how cowardly.

I want to know how you got someone to wait 6 months temporary username. You're like my new mythical hero/role model.

[IrmaJean]

I've only been intimate with one person and that would be my husband. I believe we waited about 5 months...maybe closer to 6? I hadn't known at the time that this was unusual and was even concerned about rushing things. I know it must be frightening for you right now, but you can be proactive in giving yourself the chance at happiness. I hope things go well for you.

[John Rutledge]

... I, also, have "been intimate" with only one person. I have been married to her for 25 years; we were 29 (me) and 27 when we married. I may not have made a great deal of my life, but much of the good in it is down to her. I love her very much. No earthly Paradise, but not too bad, either. That is Life.

I am, I suppose, getting on a bit, and do not fully understand the difficulties facing young people in this field now. Social norms and peer pressures are very different, these days. I would say one thing - physical "intimacy", without real intimacy, is a much-overrated event. Real intimacy is not some bed of roses; commitment may involve great pain for those involved in the relationship. But it may also involve great joy, even if this sometimes has to peep through the pain.

I would say to anybody with this problem - relax, make the effort to encounter others with your interests, or background, or passions. Try to make friends. And use what Shakespeare called "the means that Heaven yields"; and if that includes social networking on the Net - so be it. Do not torture yourself because physical "intimacy" has eluded you for now; we all have the capacity to find love - physical element or not - if that is what we seek. And Love is, really, the important thing.

Best regards,

[kristin]

Hey all-- thanks for sharing your stories, especially somebody25, and the advice from Mark and everyone else. It's good to know I'm not alone.

[Mark]

Nope. Not at all alone. Not too many have found this particular forum, but there are literally millions of people in the world struggling with this issue of virginity right at this moment.

[somebody25]

No problem Kristen. You said you don't have any friends, but consider me your internet buddy.

If anyone is interested, I canceled my stupid match.com membership. It's feeling like a waste of time (and more imporantly money), and I'm tired of paying for it. I had a few decent guys email me, but the one I was interested in lived hundreds of miles away. We're talking on instant messenger at least, but eh, I'm not feeling optimistic.

At least I've got an appointment to get rid of the results of the hirsutism problem.. I was hoping to get a car with a working air conditioner, but I guess I'll have to go without again.

So I guess I'm only 90% hopeless.

I think I'm going to just focus on losing weight again. Since Sept I've lost about 15, but I have to lose about 25 more to reach my goal weight... I've hit a wall lately too where I'll occasionally break down and eat a cookie or something... You'd think giving up bread and potatoes, running four miles a day, and eating just steamed vegetables for lunch would do it but apparently not...

I still feel like if I don't find someone very soon I'm going to lose my chance... Kind of irrational I know...

[randomperson]

Mark a lot of what you said earlier does hit right on for me. Not feeling good enough, all of that.

Somebody25, Kristen how are y'all?

Yeah I don't know how anyone makes those dating sites work myself.

I was on Match, Eharmony, and two free sites. The best out of them all was the free sites lol. I went on a few dates but no real connections.. overall it just made me feel horrible. No one was open.. either that or it was filled with mean people I would have been ok if people were like they are on here open and friendly.. but they were not. Some were very rude in fact!

Where do you find single people that are decent?

I keep hearing hobbies or church groups, but I'm a gamer we don't go outside or meet for our hobby.. and I would feel strange hitting on someone at church.

I say this because I am curious. Not that I want to date or not date.. just when I did want to date it just wasn't working for me, at all.

Wondering what I was doing wrong?

PS~ I know what your saying about the movies I hate the 40 year old Virgin movie because it makes me feel like people think my life is so freakishly messed up it is funny

[Mark]

Ah, gamers. It's something I have watched rising on the cultural scene but have never had the time for myself. A sign of my age.

Gamers socialize a ton. They just do it in virtual worlds rather than in the real one. So the trick would be to play social games (of which there are many today. WOW is supposed to be popular lately, and then there are all the zombie games like L4D. Then you'd want to join up with some kind of social group within the game (a "clan" ??) and from there it's socialization much like any other sort - adapted to the virtual environment.

If you want to meet someone you have to broadcast your desire to do that, but in a way that doesn't position yourself as despairate, but rather desirous. Don't assume that others know your mind. Mind reading isn't reality, and most of the time, people are so wrapped up in their own dramas that they don't notice yours even to the extent they could. So you need to market yourself as available and interested; interesting, not frantic. This is a whole topic in itself, right? We can discuss if you like (to the extent I can help I will).

Mark