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Virginity Hit


somebody25

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Very kind of you. I would love to meet women gamers. I already am a very social gamer. If I was as popular offline as I am on I would have little social problems right now lol.

Problem is the way online gaming is set up it is hard to meet any people in your area, let alone women. Even game clans are often scattered all over the world. Then on top of it I would say only 1-50 or 1-100 people you play online with is a woman.

Love can be found online, the one GF I had was the daughter of a great gamer friend of mine and I know of another couple that met from gaming.. it is just difficult. Funny you mentioned L4D that was the first game we played together and where we were introduced :)

I would love to hear more about the process of meeting women. I am very green at all of this and have already learned a lot from many people here.

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I would love to hear more about the process of meeting women.
It can seem difficult to do this when you are anxious/shy about it, but really it's not that difficult. You have to re-arrange your life a bit so that you are in places where there are single women - or your online life so that you are in contact with single women, and then you have to talk to a number of them until some interaction you have clicks and you both find you want to spend more time with one another. Doing this requires that you overcome whatever shyness based passivity or embarrassment you may be acting out. You have to decide to act in spite of your fear/anxiety/paralysis. I spent years of my younger life paralyzed by the prospect of actually talking to girls only to find out later that it is really easy to do. you just have to do it, and to be prepared to do it repeatedly because the common experience is going to be that you meet someone nice but you just don't mutually click. Less commonly, you will meet someone you don't like at all (or they don't like you at all), and also less commonly, you will both like one another. So you must consider this a process and a numbers game where you have to repeatedly work to talk with women knowing that it is more than half likely that this particular time it won't work out. that's a frightening prospect to the extent that you see the woman you're with as having the power to judge you and reject you. Which she does, but you have the same power to judge and reject and basically equal standing. Sometimes you may not like someone and you will want to walk away. That doesn't make that woman a bad person; just not the person who is a good fit for you. The vice versa logic applies too. If you are rejected it is more about the woman deciding that you are not a good fit for whatever she is looking for. "Fit" is really important. If someone rejects you because they think you are not a good fit, that is the best thing they could do, because better to figure that out early than later on after you've invested in that person. Vice versa, if you realize you don't "fit" well with someone you manage to attract, it's better to let them know early on too so that you don't hurt them unnecessarily.

In short, there is really not that much to be afraid of, but it is easy to be afraid nevertheless. In order to be less afraid, it's good to remind yourself that you are a worthwhile human being seeking what most human being want most - intimacy (emotional, sexual, etc.), which is the most normal thing in the world. It's also useful to remind yourself that other people's rejection of you only carries as much weight as you allow it to (because at root you are a worthwhile human being acting on normal impulses).

In terms of specifics - specifically where to go online or otherwise to meet women - I don't know. that's very variable based on your specific situation. Where do you think you should go? Where have you tried to go?

I would say only 1-50 or 1-100 people you play online with is a woman

If this is true, then you would appear to be spending time in a place that is not aligned with your goal of meeting women. Maybe you need to re-orient how/where you spend time.

Mark

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Much thanks. You are right I do have an anxiety about the whole thing.

But that is only part of the problem. I have tried online dating. Honestly other than a few shameful run ins where I made a fool of myself the internet dating is all I tried. That was a horrible experience. Horrible is an understatement.. because most horrible experiences are free :o

I don't know how to change my life to run into more women.

Nathan suggested talking to random women.. maybe that is the best hope.

But I mentioned that option a long time ago to women friends and they said that would never work.. that is what always held me back before.. that and straight up fear of doing it lol.

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flander,

I'm not trying to ignore or belittle the barriers that keep people from being able to approach potential partners. I know they are substantial. I have lived them. I also know that if you can get yourself past them, the actual things that you need to do to meet potential partners are not rocket science. it is mostly perseverence and the willingness to put yourself out there and risk rejection, knowing that most of the time you will be rejected or want to reject whomever you happen to be with. Sparks are not the rule, but they do tend to occur if you persevere long enough in the right environments (e.g., where there are a reasonable pool of potential partners).

RP, what was so horrible about your dating experiences online? You are using strongly emotional words here - shame, fool, horrible. The theme is one of social anxiety - the fear of being judged by a powerful other. What was it about whomever you were with in those exchanges that made them seem so powerful?

When I was young and shy I used to think women were powerful and had the power to humiliate. Now I realize that we're "all just bozos on this bus" - all just trying to get through this life with dignity and some measure of joy and that includes most of the potential partners you might approach. They do not have more power than you give them, especially when they are strangers unconnected to your existing social circles. You may feel humiliated, but when that is the case, the feeling is coming from inside *you*; you being prepared to feel that way in a pre-existing manner. Why do you feel that way do you think? What is the worst thing that could happen? What were the horrible things that did happen?

I mentioned that option a long time ago to women friends and they said that would never work

Did you ask them what they thought would work?

If it never worked to talk to random women the world would have far fewer babies in it (grin!). However, there are places and times when people are more or less receptive to being approached. And your presentation and carriage when you are approaching is important. If you *are* confident and naturally project that and express a genuine interest in something the other person you're approaching is interested in, and if the setting is reasonable (e.g., the person you're approaching is open to being disturbed, and if she is not otherwise engaged (in a relationship she cares about) then this can work very nicely. This is why people say to use online services or to join clubs etc. These situations provide contexts where people are more likely to be open to meeting new people.

Mark

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I am my worst enemy. Too many doubts, worries, low self esteem.

I have had many bad experiences with women. Some my fault, some not.

I will just cover the online dating part.

Most just ignore you. Not a hello nothing. Doesn't matter what you say just blank.. no response. Some say bad things back. Had one say after my second time writing her she thought she was not attracted to me.. then after looking at my picture again she realized it was just my shirt.

That one was a success for online dating because I actually went out with her.

One of the few. She ran 30 minutes late because she was getting the oil changed in her car.

One woman even changed her whole profile after our date to reflect how 'beneath her I was'

Something to the effect that she was a prize and that she would have to be won and she went on and on about bad dates she had online.. at that point I started half reading what she was saying but I am pretty sure I was included in it I think she called me an 'emo'.. which is true but it still hurt like crazy. Sad part was that was my first date ever :o

And I know it is normal to get ignored that woman on the sites get slammed with messages.

I tried for 6 months on several sites with just a few dates to show for it.

It just is tough for someone with already low self esteem to deal with, and if it doesn't work for me it doesn't work.

Stats I would say 1 out of 28 I messaged would write back. Out of those successful attempts most would fain interest by the 3rd email. I can count on my hands the number of dates I have been on. Just made me feel worse. It made me feel like the media portrays people like me, like a joke. A good comparison is school. The women on there act like those that pick on kids in school. Perhaps it reminded me of that a little too much.. perhaps you hit something talking about power.

It felt like they had total control over the situation.

The few internet dates I did go on went well enough at the end when I started to gain control over my fears. But I didn't enjoy them or the people I was dating. One was nice and was the first date I ever had on Valentine's day :)

I did go on a few dates with her. Just I didn't feel a real connection to her romantically. And that was another thing I hate rejecting people myself just as much.. because I know the pain. But there was no real way to know people beforehand on those sites.

Maybe it does have something to do about giving them all of my control over the situation.. seems to be a reoccurring problem throughout. The words you said "the fear of being judged by a powerful other." I think your right. But if I do still have this fear how do I change? How do I start to get the control back? I find it impossible to take the big steps I need to and don't know what the small ones are.

As for talking to everyday people.. the women I talked to said they would think it weird and would never go out with someone that just starts talking to them, or even get to know them.

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IMHO, online dating is a scam. On so many sites, a person will get flirts/winks/whatever the site calls them that are never actually sent by the person they're supposedly from. They've never looked at your profile. Also, if you look into your 'sent messages' folder on the site, you'll see messages sent to other users that you never sent yourself. The site sends out these fake messages from your account. Fake profiles are another problem.

Dating people at work can be a problem too. It can negatively affect team dynamics. If the HR dept has a zero tolerance sexual harassment policy, if a female takes something the wrong way, no matter how innocent the intentions, the guy can find himself out of a job that day.

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Well, this has been an informative thread! After reading through all the comments just now, I think I still have not been convinced to try the internet dating thing. Plus, moving - even across town - just isn't in the cards when you have joint custody of young children and your ex threatened to take you to the cleaners just for asking "what are all the available custody options and pros/cons?" (yes, I am a woman, in case you're wondering why my name doesn't mesh with the words here - I feel like the mediator is trying to bury me just so she can say to all her male clients, "see, women get screwed out of their house and retirement too", even if I'm the only woman in Canada to hold this dubious distinction!)

I'm on the verge of calling a local matchmaker. My Mom was a great (unofficial) matchmaker, too bad I met my ex before she had the chance to set me up with somebody nice! She tried to set my sister up with an eligible bachelor, but she was too late - my sister was already dating the man she had in mind for her - and he's the most wonderful man I've ever met, treats her with respect, never an unkind word, is a great cook, great Dad and handy around the house. They were married in 1993 and are still madly in love with each other. So a good matchmaker is worth their weight in gold. Too bad my Mom has Alzheimers now:(

Anyway, here's another idea - lots of people show up on their own to political functions. It is way less awkward not being the only one who isn't obviously in some "group" already. Only problem is the functions are spread out and the nice people you meet aren't necessarily single. Election years should be better - more people, more functions, more energy and God knows, the politicians need all the help they can get fixing the messes we are in right now! And if we help them on their campaign, maybe they'll do us a favour and keep an eye out for an eligible match. After all, they know LOTS of people in the community.

And guys, I think a lot of the women are just as scared as you are about the dating scene. Also, it may not be fair that society still seems to require men to make the first (non-internet dating) move, (unless things have changed recently) but don't worry - some of us know that it takes a lot of guts to approach a woman, and will cut you some slack, even if you stick your foot in your mouth right off the bat! If it happens, just laugh at yourself and she may just laugh with you.

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I called one that matches people and sets up lunch or dinner dates. The "one year plan" was $2k. :eek:

If it is that good... my question is why would you need a year plan?

Thanks Athena :) I found when I am at peace with who I am I have more success talking to people.

I am growing.. more than I think, just small steps so it is hard to see unless I look back.

I threw a large party over the weekend that went very well. Just 3 years ago I would not have been able to do that.

What I wish more women would realize the guys that do have trouble asking.. but do anyway are more likely to be "keepers"

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If it is that good... my question is why would you need a year plan?
. Ditto from me. Flander, I'll call my local one and we can compare notes.
Thanks Athena :) I found when I am at peace with who I am I have more success talking to people.

I am growing.. more than I think, just small steps so it is hard to see unless I look back.

I threw a large party over the weekend that went very well. Just 3 years ago I would not have been able to do that.

That's great. I think I'll throw a party when my divorce is finalized. I think I'll be optimistic and give myself a goal of "within the year."
What I wish more women would realize the guys that do have trouble asking.. but do anyway are more likely to be "keepers"
My Dad was a very reserved man and very awkward socially - He kept asking my Mom out and she kept refusing because she was gun shy having been through a divorce (a lot rarer in the mid 1950's). He was a good man with impeccable ethics, devotion and honesty and certainly was a "keeper". I wish I was not so reserved myself, as I worry that the "strong silent type" and I would eventually run out of things to say to each other.
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If it is that good... my question is why would you need a year plan?

To give them time to space out the 14 blind dates that come with the plan, I guess. From what I gathered from the phone rep was that they didn't find a list of matches and then send them to the client to pick one. They would pick one for you based on an interview, set up the date, and then use the feedback to re-evaluate choices for the next date. I didn't ask if they prorated the service if you found a match right away. If not, maybe they would just continue the date planning for the rest of the plan.
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Guest ASchwartz

Oh, I remember those silences when I was young and dating: back in the middle ages. :( Seriously, it is important for a dating couple to tolerate some silences. They can be very important. Of course, its difficult to tolerate because it raised anxiety. But, endless chatter isn't much better and, in fact, is worse.

Allan

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Oh, I remember those silences when I was young and dating: back in the middle ages. :( Seriously, it is important for a dating couple to tolerate some silences. They can be very important. Of course, its difficult to tolerate because it raised anxiety. But, endless chatter isn't much better and, in fact, is worse.Allan

Yes, I've discovered that. I do NOT need the replay/description of every single hole in the Master's tournament. Come on man, I'm not even a golfer!

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Being a somewhat private person I don't feel comfortable disclosing the details of my dating history in this public forum. However, I want to say again that I have lived a version of this angst for many years; have done the online dating thing (with much rejection and some success) and have pursued a variety of other strategies, mostly with limited success. I don't think it is important to spend a lot of money - you may need to spend some but you certainly don't need to spend $2,000 (!). What is important is that you keep trying. Dating is a numbers game.

In my experience (for what it is worth), you just need to keep putting yourself into situations where you get to talk face to face (actually talk - not just email or on the phone) with the sex you are attracted to in settings where they are (self-selected) likely to be receptive to being approached. You need to keep doing this a number of times - sometimes a great number of times, until something clicks and there is mutual attraction.

In my experience, attraction cannot be manufactured. it either clicks on or it doesn't. It is generally either shows itself within the first several conversations or it will not occur. If it is not present for you after several conversations, move on. If you like someone but they don't seem to be liking you back - which means making some sex-role-appropriate effort to get together with you - maybe it is just suggesting an alternative time to meet when a time you've proposed doesn't work - if they aren't giving you a clear sign that they like you back then move on, because after a few conversations it is vanishingly likely that such attraction will appear.

Attraction is not up to you, or your prospective partner, and if it is not present spontaneously it cannot be manufactured.

The key words here are determination repetition and rejection. You have to be determined to make this happen - which provides the fuel for getting back on the "horse" after falling off (which will happen a lot). You have to be willing to keep getting back on the horse - seeking out the horse. You have to be willing and able to reject both 1) those partners you do not find attractive and 2) those partners you fall in love with but who do not love you back. You have to keep moving on until you find what works.

Once you find what works, then there is a new problem, called "compatibility" but that is a different story.

randomperson - maybe if you think about this process as a game it will help. It is a game, only you feel the consequences of your actions more physically than you do when it is a video game.

another thought, perhaps a stupid one. If you are too tender to play this game the right way (e.g., the way that will potentially produce emotional intimacy as well as sexual intimacy), then maybe you can play the wrong way (e.g., just for sex) for a limited time?? There are whole books devoted to the art of seduction, and what they mostly reduce to is to learn how to make your prospective partner into an object to be manipulated so that you can get into their pants. In the process of making your partner into an object you also must make yourself into an object (e.g., this is a selfish, narcissistic way of proceeding, but it does work). This approach is fundamentally unhealthy. I can't recommend it as a goal to aspire to, but I think the techniques used by these seducers could be worth studying, as is the *temporary* ability to make your prospective partner into an object - if and only if this gets you over the otherwise paralyzing anxiety of approaching repeatedly. Once over that anxiety I hope you would drop that crap and become human again.

Mark

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Thanks everyone. I think for me it is about finding my own path.

I don't think for me it is about thinking of women as objects or getting into the whole one night stand thing. It is a good idea but it wouldn't work for me because of my personal beliefs.. which though they may be old fashioned are still part of who I am. To betray that would be to betray myself and all that I have fought so hard for all these years.

I have recently let go of my feelings for my ex and for the first time just starting to see things a bit different. Instead of seeing no one like before..I am seeing potential. A neighbor across the street that waved at me. Just got a cute new intern working where I am that seems very nice. She is younger but I don't think she is seeing anyone. Another neighbor is much older than me but looks around my age.

One of the cashiers at our local McDonalds lol. None of which are sure bets.. but chances as you say. Just need to get my head on straight and figure out how to ask them out now.. or how to get to know them more where I can ask them out..

In the past I would always wait too long and miss my chance by a month or so.

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Well, they're not objects, but they don't belong on pedestals, either (that's "object" again, but in the other direction.)

They're people, with lives and troubles and needs and stuff, just like you.

So yeah, they won't all go out with you ("sure bets" indeed) :-P but if you relate to them, they might relate to you.

Just be real. The real ones will respond.

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I'm just starting to understand that. I did put women on a pedestal too high for me to reach.. too high for anyone. I still don't know how to approach people really as far as all that goes but I am going to take my advice and start baby stepping. Talking or trying to taking it up a notch and see what happens.

I worry too much. I need to stop it but not sure how. Maybe I am though..

thing about baby steps they are so small you can't see them until you look back after a long time.

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When all your eggs are in one basket, so to speak, it becomes a very difficult basket to relate to. ;-)

Be friends with as many people as you can, rand. Don't even think of them as genders. Eventually, you'll find yourself feeling more for some than others, and that some of them return your feelings.

{By the way, I did this all the time, probably including the woman I married. Please do not try that at home.} ;-)

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It does make sense. Whether it is friends or dates, some will stick around, some won't. And if it's hard to meet single women, the more friends you have, then the more people potentially introducing you to the perfect woman for you. And if it doesn't happen right away, at least you won't be as lonely with good people around you.

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  • 2 months later...
Guest ASchwartz

This is an important forum, especially for those who continue to struggle with being adult and having no sex or very little sex. That's why I'm concerned. What is keeping you away? Let's return to our discussions here.

Allan

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