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Victimorthecrime

The News [TRIGGER warning: US elections]

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You might be right, Pax.   No matter how much somebody might want to create a better world through an election, there will always be self-centered ignorant people who see an election as nothing more than an opportunity to express hatred of, or contempt for, a race / cultural group / gender or gender identity / religion or religion in general / subculture / region / other.   Or, that's how we Americans do it.  

I haven't signed up with either the liberal camp or the conservative camp, precisely because they both do this.  Instead of having ideals, tempered by a desire to find a shared path forward, we Americans look for an Other or Them or That Group whom we can demonize or belittle.   "I refuse to feel good unless i'm putting down a group that's different from me."   A disgusting attitude.

Sorry, Abraham Lincoln.  We heard the voice of "the better angels of our nature" and then chose the voice of our demons instead.

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1 hour ago, TooOld4This said:

I haven't signed up with either the liberal camp or the conservative camp, precisely because they both do this.

Yes, there is a lot of negative campaigning here in the UK as well. I don't subscribe to any of the political parties as they are all disappointing and seem prepared to say pretty much anything to get into office or fight amongst themselves if they are not in office. Have you been pleased with what Obama has done while President, TO4T?

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@TooOld4This

That's the point I was trying to make with humor...USA is easy to tear apart because there are already so many natural divisions among the people. All it takes are a few halfway dedicated shit stirrers to put it all into focus. There's too much bloodlust on both sides of the fence for either outcome not to end in some degree of violence, it's simply a question of how far it goes. I share your anxieties, but there is not one iota I can do about it and maybe it means somebody will do the job I never had the balls to do myself which is blow my head off.

Anyway, I apologize if it was offensive, I just was trying to provide some levity. I'm the last person on earth who would willingly debate politics, I'd rather try to sand wood with my forehead which is just about as productive. 

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10 hours ago, Victimorthecrime said:

Do you feel that the leaders of the EU in Brussels have the best interest of England and its citizens in their hearts? 

Well, the EU has introduced some useful legislation about, for example, the environment, human rights and workers' rights which I think has been positive for the UK. The difficulty is that it's perceived as remote, wasteful and unaccountable.

I think the EU probably has the best interests of all 28 member states in mind, but change takes place slowly. They'll probably be glad to see the back of our moaning country - a country that has been struggling with membership for some time.

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On 11/5/2016 at 4:09 PM, jazz said:

Have you been pleased with what Obama has done while President, TO4T?

On the whole, yes.  I especially supported his Affordable Care Act (that's as in "health care," Brits and Canadians.  No NHS here) even though it's been generally a bust.  Something needed to be done to shake up our dysfunctional health care situation (it isn't a "health care system").  Even if the Republicans replace it with something else; at least the boulder is moving.  The problem with the Make America Great Again crowd is, they don't want to replace the ACA with something; they want to replace it with nothing, then they'll stand back and gloat about "ha ha, we sure screwed things up for those four-eyed college graduates, didn't we."

I have no respect for nihilism in any form, least of all in health care.

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Sorry, Jazz.  I read the article; the author doesn't get it.

This was not Fanfare For The Common Man.  Jazz, i'm a Southerner from a small town.  I grew up with these people; at my age, i went to high school with a few of them (a VERY few; as i said -- i come from a small town).  I know these people; they are not Huckleberry Finn and Becky Thatcher.  This was not Rise of The Blue-Collar Heroes.   This was a massive nationwide lynch mob coming out of their houses with torches and pitchforks, looking for minorities to hang and witches to burn (for witches, maybe substitute women in hijabs).   

They don't just control the White  House, Jazz.  They also control both houses of Congress, and through intimidation if nothing else, they will control the Republicans who run most of the states and most of the local governments.  My county went for Mrs. Clinton, but our county government is controlled by Republicans.  Who will have to bow down to the mob; they have no choice.

I'm not announcing the Apocalypse here;  my country is the Land of The Free, and tyranny will not rule for very long.  But my fellow freedom-loving Americans and i have to prepare to resist oppression.  We've got to get busy.

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Wow, Pax, thanks for the W.B. Yeats quote.  The Homer of Ireland.

As relevant today as it was then.

I'll offer this one from Yeats, too:

We know their dream; enough 
To know they dreamed and are dead;   
And what if excess of love   
Bewildered them till they died?   

Now and in time to be, 
Wherever green is worn, 
Are changed, changed utterly:   
A terrible beauty is born.

It's too easy to focus on the ugliness.  We can help our nation to give birth to that beauty.

Let's get busy.

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http://www.vox.com/first-person/2016/11/10/13580582/leslie-knope-donald-trump

Quote

He is the present, sadly, but he is not the future. You are the future. Your strength is a million times his. Your power is a billion times his. We will acknowledge this result, but we will not accept it. We will overcome it, and we will defeat it. 

Now find your team, and get to work.

http://www.vox.com/presidential-election/2016/11/10/13586322/trump-brexit-safety-pin

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18 hours ago, Pax said:

I see a president-elect confused and disoriented now. One wonders what deal the Deal Maker made and with whom to play his part in this gigantic charade. . 

Yes, he's probably just discovered from Obama that certain situations in the world and country are nowhere near as 'black and white' as he thought. Nowhere near as simple as firing a few 'apprentices'.

Pax, I agree with you about 'rabid ideologies' - there's one hurting disabled people in the UK right now which goes along the lines of no one is too disabled to work (even if they are) because work is always good for disabled people (even when it's not.) :(

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@jazz

Yeah, I agree. 

I notice a trigger warning has been added to this thread so I deleted my previous posts, which might be upsetting to some people who don't understand what I'm trying to say. Just to be clear, I do not support either one side or the other. Both have valid points and both are deeply flawed, and I reject the idea that one must "take sides". 

Really I am just weary of people and arguments and society and wish I could crash land on some magical island like in Lost away from human beings or grow the kahones to buy a one way ticket out of this hellhole. 

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I'm sorry, Pax, you deleted your posts because of my decision to put a trigger warning! :( I was thinking in the opposite way: We could post even more about politics etc. now when there's a warning for everybody who would prefer not to read about the elections! I didn't find your (or anyone's else) posts triggering, and there were not at all inappropriate; the only aim was to warn in advance those who're now too sensitive to such topics... :( 

1 hour ago, Pax said:

Really I am just weary of people and arguments and society and wish I could crash land on some magical island like in Lost away from human beings or grow the kahones to buy a one way ticket out of this hellhole.

I'm sorry you're feeling this way... I hope you can find some healthy kind of temporary isolation and gain enough peace of mind... :o 

Edited by LaLa

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I'm also sorry you deleted your post, Pax. I thought you expressed your feelings well. It's an uncertain time in our country right now and all of the conflict can be mentally exhausting, I hear you. Would some calming activities help? I'm not sure what works best for you. I spent some time listening to my favorite singer. I think it's important to remember self care. I hope you feel more serenity soon. Thinking of you.

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Thanks LaLa and Beth. I think sometimes I have the urge to speak because I feel frustrated or anxious. My comments don't really matter. I'm sorry if I contributed to anxiety. 

Usually if I'm feeling anxious I try to get away from the Internet and read a book. I also feel better if I go outside but my social anxiety usually stops me since I live in town these days. I spend too much time on the web. In my opinion the Internet exacerbates anxiety and stress. 

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26 minutes ago, Pax said:

I'm sorry if I contributed to anxiety. 

You surely didn't!!! I'm sorry you have this "suspicion" :( 

27 minutes ago, Pax said:

Usually if I'm feeling anxious I try to get away from the Internet and read a book.

I'm glad to hear you're taking care of yourself :) ! I'm sorry you "can't" go out more :( . Is it also difficult for you to go to nature (at least a big park), where yo meet/see less people?

(Anyway; I hope my replies to your posts don't keep you longer on the internet than "intended" ;) .)

Take care!

 

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21 hours ago, jazz said:

Yes, he's probably just discovered from Obama that certain situations in the world and country are nowhere near as 'black and white' as he thought. Nowhere near as simple as firing a few 'apprentices'.

lol

 

21 hours ago, jazz said:

Pax, I agree with you about 'rabid ideologies' - there's one hurting disabled people in the UK right now which goes along the lines of no one is too disabled to work (even if they are) because work is always good for disabled people (even when it's not.) :(

it amazes how limitless stupidity, ignorance and senselessness can be (i'm not just talking about the uk).

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