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Victimorthecrime

The News [TRIGGER warning: US elections]

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On 11/4/2016 at 7:37 PM, TooOld4This said:

what does the world think about us Americans (and therefore, me; i should own up to my own self-interest here) if we elect this kind of person as our leader?

Well, I think that if someone judges you, who didn't vote for him, based on others who did, then (s)he's too stupid and his/her opinion about this doesn't matter.

I think it would be good for you to come up with an answer to such questions you mentioned, so that you could use it immediately / automatically without feeling confused and/or embarrassed. I think you could, for instance, choose several good articles (and/or videos / podcasts) which sufficiently analyse "the Trump phenomenon" and have the references always with you and just give them to the person who asks you about it, saying something like: "Look, I'm similarly horrified as you are by the result,  by the number of his voters, and by what's happening now in our country. But it's too complicated for me to explain it to you in few sentences. Many scholars have already tried to analyse the situation and it's always quite complicated and long. If you're truly interested in this issue, I recomment you there articles: ..."

 

I would recommend, for instance, these videos / mp3-podcasts;

http://meaningoflife.tv/?s=trump - probably mainly: http://meaningoflife.tv/videos/37150http://meaningoflife.tv/videos/37234, and http://meaningoflife.tv/videos/36641 ... and http://meaningoflife.tv/videos/37086

and from a different source:

https://soundcloud.com/ intelligence2/the-rise-of- populism-and-the-backlash- against-the-elites

And this is probably a good read for Americans:

http://qz.com/846940/a-yale-history-professors-20-point-guide-to-defending-democracy-under-a-trump-presidency/

P.S.: Sorry for replying so late :( . I hadn't seen these posts sooner.

And, BTW, I'm a European ;) .

Edited by LaLa

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On 11/12/2016 at 10:35 AM, jazz said:

Pax, I agree with you about 'rabid ideologies' - there's one hurting disabled people in the UK right now which goes along the lines of no one is too disabled to work (even if they are) because work is always good for disabled people (even when it's not.) :(

It's especially good for disabled people to enforce this ideology at christmas apparently.

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I have no idea why the system put the above quote up there. I could not negate it.  

For a lot of people a job provides dignity, pride, socialization, and capital.  So wherever possible people should be encouraged to find appropriate employment as it strengthens both them and the nation.  Obviously the aged, the infirm, should not be forced to work but at the same time healthy able bodied people should not be allowed to scam the system as that benefits no one.  

The State that I live in does one good thing it rewards employers who hire the differently enabled and I am telling you these folks love their jobs, they enjoy contributing and being acknowledged for it. Everyone understands the situation, no one is ever hard on them.  

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4 hours ago, Victimorthecrime said:

The State that I live in does one good thing it rewards employers who hire the differently enabled and I am telling you these folks love their jobs, they enjoy contributing and being acknowledged for it. Everyone understands the situation, no one is ever hard on them.  

Sounds good Vic. It's just that sometimes ideology goes too far e.g. the UK government's own figures (which they tried to suppress) show that a large number of people have actually died shortly after being found 'fit for work' by assessors.

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Pax, I know what you are saying but I think the 'self evaluation' is a more humane approach. Plus, it's cheaper to administer than a lot of medical staff doing untold numbers of assessments. It's easy to get caught up in this worry that some of the poor are abusing the system, but in my view the main abuse is businesses who use tax loopholes to avoid paying taxes that could fund a fair system.

Shouldn't employers also be held to account for the experience of work, good or miserable as it can be? They seem to be able to get away with almost anything - and the media trots out the 'business view' on everything, no matter how socially unequal it seems e.g. when the minimum wage was introduced here, business complained saying that too many jobs would be lost, but strangely enough it didn't happen.

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Well, that's a bit of a different subject from disability payments. There are regulations in place to try and prevent that happening and when the Government was asked earlier this year to provide evidence of 'benefit tourism' from other EU states it couldn't do so.

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There is no way to present evidence to bureaucrats for things they don't want to see.  They will always say "you didn't dot that i or cross that t".  

The bottom line is that the money has to come from somewhere and abusers jeopardize programs for those that rightly deserve the benefits. The problem is governments have no incentive to say no to anyone because it is not their money.  There is however plenty of incentive to demonize those of us who point that out.  

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Pax, just to be clear I think disability claimants should have the evidential support of the doctor/practice that knows them best, rather than the judgement of assessors employed by contractors who don't know them at all.

As regards general working conditions, employers can start to improve those through dialogue with their staff, which can be lacking - not saying the employee doesn't have a responsibility too, but sometimes it is the employer who will not make enough resources available who is at fault.

I do agree that everyone cannot have an exactly equal standard of living, but a minimum wage is one step towards reducing inequality and countries with fewer inequalities are reported to have happier residents. There are lots of factors at play, but this is one of them.

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29 minutes ago, Pax said:

Jazz, 

There are examples of societies throughout history who possess nothing of what modern first-world culture values and whom the latter would call "primitives", yet these societies enjoyed a peaceful, sustainable existence. Many of them were very spiritual. It's only when they're introduced to Western materialism that they begin to feel victimized and self-identify as under-privileged (usually by seducing the youth with garbage like facebook. pornography, twitter, pop music, and all the other BS). I for one would welcome the total destruction of materialism and all that goes with it. Western civilization came as close to this ideal as it ever would during the Middle Ages, but that age is long gone and there is no turning back. 

i may not be a history expert but i don't recall any era throughout history where people were actually healthy, happy (and no poverty or famine) and living in harmony.

 

29 minutes ago, Pax said:

The Dakota pipeline controversy is incredibly ironic, given that we have the remnants of a civilization that preceded European conquest of the Americas protesting the actions of these same European descendants who themselves are under attack from external forces and facing extinction. Truly, "...He will by no means leave the guilty unpunished, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children and the grandchildren, to the third and fourth generations..."

is it really punishing the guilty when you punish the descendants of a long gone person/peoples? it's simply letting the guilty slide and punishing their innocent descendants after they (the guilty) have perished.

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11 minutes ago, Pax said:

Well if you're talking about calamities and floods and earthquakes and famines, then no, I don't suppose any human society in history has been exempt from those. What I'm talking about is social harmony without all the class strife. Amerindians lived nearly 2000 years without any significant social strife until the Europeans came. Inuit peoples, some South American peoples still live like they did thousands of years ago as hunter gatherers. 

some people are savages (like amazonians etc), but i doubt that is the solution (not that there necessarily is any solution).

 

Quote

Yes, it's still punishment in the sense that somebody has to pay for the crime. European Americans are paying for the mistakes they made when the country was founded, and the chickens have come home to roost. Even though I had nothing to do with it, my generation is paying for it because every action provokes some kind of reaction, whether immediate or deferred. 

if i beat you and you beat your kid in retribution (because he's the only person on whom you can take out your anger), that is indeed a provoked reaction to my action but it's meaningless and unjust nonetheless.

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3 hours ago, jazz said:

I just think there should be a fair and progressive welfare safety net because today's taxpayer could so easily become tomorrow's disability applicant.

I definitely agree that people who are genuinely disabled, be it through illness, injury, age, should get help & be supported. 

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Ever notice how we are always hearing about how Social Security is going to run out of money?  But we never hear anything about Welfare running out of money, nor food stamps, nor housing subsidies, nor foreign aid, nor 'refugee' resettlement, nor public defenders, or taking care of prisoner, etc etc.  Nope.  The one and only program set to run out of money is the program workers pay into for their retirement.  Pretty much tells ya Uncle Sam's priorities.  

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