Resolute Posted September 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2015 I'm getting by, Resolute. Sorry you are hurting, but friends do help. ((((hugs))))thank you m. hugs right back at you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resolute Posted September 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2015 @ whatever,sorry to hear stuff in post #67; sounds pretty messed up.....Vagina have to be vet for intercourse right?....no, you don't have to take vagina to the vet. sorry, i couldn't resist.take care man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatever Posted September 22, 2015 Report Share Posted September 22, 2015 2. Maybe i used a wrong term. I meant laws of universe are always the same. From beginning til now and til.... something. 'Rational' may be wrong term.3. One can do a lot but it is hard. Few years ago i had ZERO social life, I had so many obsessions with health with some imagined 'world problems'. But today there is still trace of that s**t, but generally I'm much healthier mentally, physically. I think i just started improving, I built a good base from which i can go on in life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatever Posted September 22, 2015 Report Share Posted September 22, 2015 I meant wet.. typing while raging inside :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resolute Posted September 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2015 I meant wet.. typing while raging inside :/lol, i know; the 'vet' remark was a joke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resolute Posted September 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2015 2. Maybe i used a wrong term. I meant laws of universe are always the same. From beginning til now and til.... something. 'Rational' may be wrong term.3. One can do a lot but it is hard. Few years ago i had ZERO social life, I had so many obsessions with health with some imagined 'world problems'. But today there is still trace of that s**t, but generally I'm much healthier mentally, physically.I think i just started improving, I built a good base from which i can go on in life.2- i think the word you're looking for is 'order'. i agree, there is absolute order in the universe because chaos and randomness are logically impossible, so "god" couldn't cause them even if he wanted to. and because of absolute order and cause and effect, i believe in hard determinism in the universe.3- things changing (or staying the same) is part of the determinism of which i speak. whatever 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrmaJean Posted September 22, 2015 Report Share Posted September 22, 2015 Res, do you feel everything about life is logical?I'm not sure how to answer your question about how I am? I appreciate you asking, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resolute Posted September 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2015 Res, do you feel everything about life is logical?i mostly try to base my conclusions on logic, facts, and observations before 'feeling'. as to your question, i must say quite the opposite, it seems that most things in life are illogical (at least i can't see any logic in them), hence my frustration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resolute Posted September 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2015 Resolute, do you believe that "everything" is predetermined? Can you go into where you draw the line?yes, everything is determined because of the laws of causality, and i can't really draw the line anywhere. anything that is not determined implies some sort of randomness somewhere, and the existence of randomness is logically impossible. therefor everything that occurs undoubtedly has certain non-random causes, which makes it determined. this applies to absolutely everything, including "free will", which can not possibly exist; yes the illusion of free will can, and does exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resolute Posted September 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2015 1.a. The one's who don't want to be here. They I believe will have the option to have their wish come true when they die. I believe if you don't want to exist then god will grant you that wish.b. Well this depends. But I believe how you behave here will determine where you end up when you die.c. The one's who've passed have learnt one of many lessons to learn.2. How do you know that most cannot overcome the obstacles being thrown at them? I'd say most people do find a way.3. Well it is relevant because it's the truth.But hey, this is just my opinion on things and I'm not god and maybe I'm wrong about the everything.1- a. i meant the ones who don't wanna be here to begin with. even though granting them this wish after death is better than nothing, it still doesn't justify their initial existence in this world.b. if you believe in "free will" sure, but what if there is no free will? how is that just/fair?c. again, in the absence of free will, it's unjust for some to "pass" and "learn" while others "fail" and get punished etc.. as if they hadn't suffered enough.3- how can it be relevant if we can't know it? besides, how do you know what "god" thinks or believes, is the truth? he could be a big fat liar (evidence of which is very abundant).i'm glad you're not god; i would have a massive axe to grind with you if you were. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resolute Posted September 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2015 In your opinion then, if I were to quit my job tomorrow, or if I were to watch Netflix tonight, these things have already been set in motion by independent and uncontrollable variables, and I'm simply adhering to them? I'm trying to understand your POV here, not challenging them.yes, precisely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resolute Posted September 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2015 Interesting thoughts.i'm not the first to come to these conclusions; this philosophical view ('hard/strict determinism') has other proponents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resolute Posted September 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2015 i see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resolute Posted September 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 24, 2015 john, if you see this, what's the latest with you man? you haven't shared much in quite a while. what's going on in your life? share something either here or in a p.m. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrmaJean Posted September 24, 2015 Report Share Posted September 24, 2015 I apologize if you have discussed this before, but have you always believed in determinism, resolute? If not, did something happen that changed your thinking and beliefs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resolute Posted September 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 24, 2015 no need to apologize, beth. i'm glad you asked though. the truth is, i only started believing in 'hard determinism' recently, but i'd believed in 'soft determinism' or 'compatibilism' for most of my life i guess (you can probably see the shift in my philosophy from my earlier posts, specially last year). most ideologies/religions believe in the existence of some sort of "free willl", and so did i. the belief in the complete absence of any determinism is clearly absurd, since we all agree that no one chooses their genes, parents, relatives, environment in which they were born (socioeconomic, religion, language, culture, technology, pollution, etc.), and most (if not all) of the circumstances that govern us throughout our entire lives. so some form of determinism clearly and undoubtedly exists; it's just a question of how much. i've long wondered the same thing; what is the percentage of determinism in our lives (in other words, how much "free will" do we have)? and does it differ from person to person?you asked if something caused this change in my beliefs; my answer is: absolutely! the more my situation worsened, the more i searched for convincing answers as to 'why', and whether there will actually be any compensation for all this misery and inexplicable pain and suffering. i kept thinking and thinking. analyzing, debating (with myself), comparing, and so on... until i came to the conclusion that nothing in existence can logically escape the laws of causality; that notion dictates the logical impossibility of anything random, chaotic, spontaneous, coincidental, or accidental, including "free will". for 'free will' to actually exist, it needs to be exempt from the laws of cause and effect, which is unthinkable; hence "free will" cannot possibly exist, even if "god" wished it. just as "god" CAN'T make 5+6=7 or 8 or 10, or 3, or 54, or... and just like he CAN'T make two contradictions be true at the same time, and, and, and... he CAN'T create "free will" because it's existence is simply impossible.i have conclusively established the truthfulness of strict determinism (at least for myself), but i have yet to determine whether there is any afterlife, heaven, hell, etc., and whether "god" is 'just' or not (based on human understanding of justice). you might have noticed that if my version of determinism is true, it would make the existence of 'hell' (for absolutely anyone) completely unjust.thanks for reading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resolute Posted September 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 i guess we're both hurting, klingsor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resolute Posted September 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 There is only one truth: life is a savage, merciless, prejudiced, brutal, never ending struggle for supremacy.well that certainly doesn't apply to everyone; but for people like us, i'd have to agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resolute Posted September 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 People call us bitches for complaining then ridicule us for not measuring up.ya, life sure is a bitch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resolute Posted September 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 quite the poet klingsor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrmaJean Posted September 25, 2015 Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 (edited) Some time ago, I may have been able to have a lengthier discussion about all of this with you, res. My intellectual sparring energy is kinda low at the moment, though. :/ I also think I would need to read more about determinism to be well-informed and refresh my memory.I recall one course I took some years ago (History of Mathematics, I believe) and a question was posed: Was math invented or discovered? I found this fascinating to think about. I could make an argument for each point and did so, but which one is true? Is there one that is true or are both true? The same could be said for psychological theory. I can find truth (from my perspective) in all theories and am able to apply them to different circumstances to come up with an explanation. I tend to lead with humanistic theory, though, because it fits best for me. There are many many ways to look at things...Does your new belief in determinism bring you feelings of relief or cause you more distress?Klingsor, I'm sorry you are struggling. Maybe humans wouldn't feel the need to be "supreme" if they felt okay with self as is? Edited September 25, 2015 by IrmaJean adding Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resolute Posted September 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 i can't comprehend how anyone can doubt that math was discovered, and not invented. trust me, not even "god" could invent math (or logic, on which everything relies, including math).i guess you could say that believing in this determinism has both relieved me and caused me more distress. the relief comes from feeling no responsibility for any shortcomings etc., and the distress comes from not knowing what the point is to a completely determined system, and whether or not there is any compensation for all the suffering we go through.i'm not sure what you mean exactly by 'humanistic theory', but my reasoning is that one can't simply believe in what they hope to be the truth, but rather what can be supported.there may be many ways to look at things, but only one of them can be right; but of course you believe in relative truth, whereas i believe there can only be one truth.Maybe humans wouldn't feel the need to be "supreme" if they felt okay with self as is?easier said than done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrmaJean Posted September 25, 2015 Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 We operate from completely different perspectives and worldviews, I understand.Ever take the MBTI personality test? I'm an INFJ. Yes, it's easier said than done, I hear you. Maybe something to work toward, though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resolute Posted September 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 We operate from completely different perspectives and worldviews, I understand.1- Ever take the MBTI personality test? I'm an INFJ.2- Yes, it's easier said than done, I hear you. Maybe something to work toward, though?1- no.2- nope, not me. maybe klingsor would like to give it a go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resolute Posted September 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 i just took the 'mbti personality test' even though i'm uncertain of the validity of these types of tests. it says i'm an estj-t (executive type personality, lol). what type is infj, beth? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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