mts Posted August 6, 2016 Report Share Posted August 6, 2016 - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victimorthecrime Posted August 6, 2016 Report Share Posted August 6, 2016 Yeah the video was a dud. Sorry. Even though I share some of the same opinions as this Stefan guy, his condescending intellectual intimidation turns me off. I got about 60% of the way through it and bailed. The caller was out of his league and not up to snuff and it made for a lopsided and therefore uninteresting debate which didn't even seem to be about determinism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resolute Posted August 6, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2016 26 minutes ago, mts said: I just wanted to say great post, Resolute. And I wondered if by studying logic (as you said before) you meant all that crazy mathematical stuff. I was interested in it recently but it looked too complicated. thanks. well i guess there's some crazy mathematical stuff in it, but perhaps they're not what is fundamental. some of the fundamental things include grasping basic logical principles (aristotle's laws etc.) and knowing how to make proper deductions from premises etc. maybe pax could elaborate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resolute Posted August 6, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2016 22 minutes ago, Victimorthecrime said: Yeah the video was a dud. Sorry. Even though I share some of the same opinions as this Stefan guy, his condescending intellectual intimidation turns me off. I got about 60% of the way through it and bailed. The caller was out of his league and not up to snuff and it made for a lopsided and therefore uninteresting debate which didn't even seem to be about determinism. i guess i'll bail too (victim, you should post my bail). Victimorthecrime 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victimorthecrime Posted August 6, 2016 Report Share Posted August 6, 2016 Was it a choice to bail out or did prior conditions mandate it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resolute Posted August 7, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2016 i swear i had no choice, man. Victimorthecrime 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klingsor Posted August 7, 2016 Report Share Posted August 7, 2016 On August 6, 2016 at 3:39 PM, Resolute said: good thing i don't care for orgies or condoms . Technically I'm not supposed to either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klingsor Posted August 7, 2016 Report Share Posted August 7, 2016 Hey Res, how about a discussion on operative determinism - how is it that people develop intense dislikes and hatreds of one another almost immediately? Predestined you might say. After all, if love at first sight exists, certainly hate at first does. People have seemed to historically and continuously hate me on some unspecified principle, even my own tribe. I just wondered what your thoughts were. It's certainly within the realm of the irrational, simple argument won't change a persons mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrmaJean Posted August 7, 2016 Report Share Posted August 7, 2016 ^^ projection Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resolute Posted August 7, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2016 6 hours ago, Pax said: Hey Res, how about a discussion on operative determinism - how is it that people develop intense dislikes and hatreds of one another almost immediately? Predestined you might say. After all, if love at first sight exists, certainly hate at first does. People have seemed to historically and continuously hate me on some unspecified principle, even my own tribe. I just wondered what your thoughts were. It's certainly within the realm of the irrational, simple argument won't change a persons mind. 4 hours ago, IrmaJean said: ^^ projection wow beth! i didn't expect that from you . @Pax, i agree with you about such things sort of being predestined. my views on the matter are that each person has an aura of sorts, and certain auras are compatible with each other but not with others. furthermore, some auras are more positive/attractive in general while others are more negative/repellent in nature. this, of course, like any other trait, is not by choice, and i'm unclear about how it is determined. also, this aura has a very long range effect. it also determines (or at least plays a major role in) a person's overall fortune/misfortune. things like astrological causes, spells and witchcraft, evil eye etc. might play a role in the matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrmaJean Posted August 7, 2016 Report Share Posted August 7, 2016 I'm not sure why my comment is surprising or might make you want to pull out your hair, but I didn't have much time this AM, so maybe my comment was unclear? My apologies. It was in response to the question of how a person could feel hatred for another person right away. I think that could happen if a person projects those feelings. It's a defense mechanism that occurs unconsciously. This could present in different ways. It could be the person feels hated by others because they are projecting how they feel about themselves. It could be a person has negative feelings toward another person because they can't confront those feelings within themselves. I had wanted to add some psychology to the discussion. Always wishing everyone well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klingsor Posted August 7, 2016 Report Share Posted August 7, 2016 On 8/7/2016 at 1:40 AM, IrmaJean said: ^^ projection In some cases, this might be true Beth, but I don't think it's always the case. On 8/7/2016 at 5:45 AM, Resolute said: wow beth! i didn't expect that from you . @Pax, i agree with you about such things sort of being predestined. my views on the matter are that each person has an aura of sorts, and certain auras are compatible with each other but not with others. furthermore, some auras are more positive/attractive in general while others are more negative/repellent in nature. this, of course, like any other trait, is not by choice, and i'm unclear about how it is determined. also, this aura has a very long range effect. it also determines (or at least plays a major role in) a person's overall fortune/misfortune. things like astrological causes, spells and witchcraft, evil eye etc. might play a role in the matter. Yes, I agree. It's something deeper than physical appearances or social affect, although physical weakness invites abuse from those who take pleasure in asserting themselves that way. Pointless post. But it is an interesting question related to the determinism topic. We must all strive to turn into butterflies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resolute Posted August 7, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2016 2 hours ago, IrmaJean said: I'm not sure why my comment is surprising or might make you want to pull out your hair, but I didn't have much time this AM, so maybe my comment was unclear? My apologies. It was in response to the question of how a person could feel hatred for another person right away. I think that could happen if a person projects those feelings. It's a defense mechanism that occurs unconsciously. This could present in different ways. It could be the person feels hated by others because they are projecting how they feel about themselves. It could be a person has negative feelings toward another person because they can't confront those feelings within themselves. I had wanted to add some psychology to the discussion. Always wishing everyone well. the hair-pulling was mostly to try out that emoticon. as to being surprised, the reason for that is because "projection" just seems very dismissive of all sorts of scenarios to which it doesn't apply. i'd say that projection only applies to a minority of cases in real life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrmaJean Posted August 7, 2016 Report Share Posted August 7, 2016 All feelings are valuable and real and offer information about us, even if displaced, I think. So I would always want to respect that. I also think that projection and transference are likely present in all relationships at times and may even occur during casual interactions. Any time there is a reaction or strong response and feelings that don't seem to match the situation, I would wonder if this could be behind it. I find the psychology of human behavior very interesting and recognize some of the phenomena in myself as well. That being said, I do agree there may be factors that may be less concrete and explainable. You mentioned an aura that sounds something like charisma maybe? I don’t think we have all of the answers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resolute Posted August 7, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2016 15 minutes ago, IrmaJean said: All feelings are valuable and real and offer information about us, even if displaced, I think. So I would always want to respect that. I also think that projection and transference are likely present in all relationships at times and may even occur during casual interactions. Any time there is a reaction or strong response and feelings that don't seem to match the situation, I would wonder if this could be behind it. I find the psychology of human behavior very interesting and recognize some of the phenomena in myself as well. this might explain individual behavior, but what about group behavior? is everyone coincidentally projecting the same thing? also, why does the same individual sometimes react differently to the same behavior from different people? in other words, why does this individual "project" with some, and not with others? Quote That being said, I do agree there may be factors that may be less concrete and explainable. You mentioned an aura that sounds something like charisma maybe? charisma is something else, and it's more tangible, visible and explainable than an aura. Quote I don’t think we have all of the answers. no kidding, beth. we wouldn't need forums to discuss things if we did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrmaJean Posted August 7, 2016 Report Share Posted August 7, 2016 Behaviors can change quite a bit when people are in groups. The bystander effect, the psychology behind things such as looting etc... We might project (or transfer) with a specific person and not with another because that person reminds us of someone from our past or they bring up a feeling during interactions that reminds us of our past or how we felt/ responded and were treated by another person from our past. Or that person might symbolize or represent something to us that had a deeper meaning, again from our past. Fascinating stuff. I think so anyway. Psychology and what we know about the mind and our understanding of human behavior is evolving as we learn more, which I think is pretty cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resolute Posted August 7, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2016 double post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resolute Posted August 8, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 8, 2016 13 hours ago, IrmaJean said: Behaviors can change quite a bit when people are in groups. The bystander effect, the psychology behind things such as looting etc... We might project (or transfer) with a specific person and not with another because that person reminds us of someone from our past or they bring up a feeling during interactions that reminds us of our past or how we felt/ responded and were treated by another person from our past. Or that person might symbolize or represent something to us that had a deeper meaning, again from our past. Fascinating stuff. I think so anyway. Psychology and what we know about the mind and our understanding of human behavior is evolving as we learn more, which I think is pretty cool. ok, what about luck, is it projection too? furthermore, why do some people, like klingsor, have so many people projecting negatively with them, while others have many people projecting positively with them, while others are somewhere in between? as you can see, simply blaming "projection" doesn't really answer anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klingsor Posted August 8, 2016 Report Share Posted August 8, 2016 An interesting personal anecdote that touches on the concept of auras: I personally find that when I am forced to be in the company of extroverts or hyper-social or energetic people that it's almost as if they drain my energy in order to feed their own. When the interaction is over I feel completely drained and fatigued; all I want is to be alone and unwind. At my previous jobs, I was forced to attend sales meetings and the like, and even the jobs I had as a young man doing manual labor were not comparable to the eventual fatigue I had from these social obligations. I feel like I've been bitten and sucked dry by a vampire. Could this be an interaction or commingling of different types of auras? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resolute Posted August 8, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 8, 2016 possibly; incompatible energy forces doing battle, or one type feeding on the energy of the other type. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrmaJean Posted August 10, 2016 Report Share Posted August 10, 2016 Identifying its occurrence would really be just a beginning. This is something to explore that can be very deep and complex and can give us insights about ourselves. There can be a whole lot to learn there, I think, and especially when we are interacting with others. My understanding and experience of introversion is similar to how you described it, @Pax. Social situations (even though I do enjoy them) are draining to me and I need quiet time after to recharge my batteries. For someone who is extroverted, those very same social situations, seem to energize the person rather than drain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resolute Posted August 11, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2016 8 hours ago, IrmaJean said: Identifying its occurrence would really be just a beginning. This is something to explore that can be very deep and complex and can give us insights about ourselves. There can be a whole lot to learn there, I think, and especially when we are interacting with others. i'm afraid i couldn't possibly disagree with you more! why is it that you insist that every occurrence in the world originates from our "selves" and can be controlled in some way? why can't there be things simply beyond our control? why can't there be things that we can't truly change? a certain amount of projection is unavoidable in pretty much all human interactions. so unless we were rocks, or some other inanimate objects, there is gonna be some projection. but to expand the boundaries of projection to a point where it's responsible for almost all human actions and reactions is completely unacceptable. beth, i really think you need to adopt some new theories. and remember, psychology, in addition to many of its areas not being empirical, it's also way out of its depth when attempting to explain all phenomena in the universe that pertain to people. even small--who has a degree in psychology--accepts the fact that certain things in humans have causes/influences that can't be explained by psychology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrmaJean Posted August 11, 2016 Report Share Posted August 11, 2016 I never said it occurred in all instances or suggested that some things aren't beyond our control. A lot of things clearly are...I suggested that it is possible sometimes just as something to be aware of. Take care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resolute Posted August 11, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2016 i see. i'm glad we agree on something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mts Posted August 11, 2016 Report Share Posted August 11, 2016 - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.