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If you can't change your circumstance


Victimorthecrime
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Who is to say what the right, ie non deluded, mind is?

klingsor and i lol. seriously tho, i'd say "compelling evidence", whether physical, experiential, scientific, logical reasoning, etc.... the bottom line is, to "choose" how we think based on the facts (as far as we know they're facts), not based on what serves us better, i.e "improves" certain aspects of our life.

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I think it's possible to do both. One can recognize that a situation is difficult, painful, and challenging, while also trying to find a way to feel better within it. That is not denying reality, but rather not allowing the circumstances to completely define us. It's working with what we have and putting action into what we are able to.

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I think it's possible to do both. One can recognize that a situation is difficult, painful, and challenging, while also trying to find a way to feel better within it. That is not denying reality, but rather not allowing the circumstances to completely define us. It's working with what we have and putting action into what we are able to.

beth, "putting action into what we are able to" is basically focusing on the positive and ignoring the negative, which is essentially turning a blind eye to our shortcomings (what we can't do/be), which is denial and self delusion.

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beth, "putting action into what we are able to" is basically focusing on the positive and ignoring the negative, which is essentially turning a blind eye to our shortcomings (what we can't do/be), which is denial and self delusion.

I believe that positive and negative can co-exist and may also exist at the same time. I can take the time to sit and feel pain, but I must also keep moving. As I am moving I am aware of my pain but I still move. I am aware of my pain even as I laugh. Should I never laugh again because there is also pain? Would laughing somehow deny my pain? I don't think so. My personal thoughts.

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I believe that positive and negative can co-exist and may also exist at the same time. I can take the time to sit and feel pain, but I must also keep moving. As I am moving I am aware of my pain but I still move. I am aware of my pain even as I laugh. Should I never laugh again because there is also pain? Would laughing somehow deny my pain? I don't think so. My personal thoughts.

well, pain is funny lol.

i laugh even tho i'm in a lot of pain also, but that doesn't solve anything. victim's topic is about changing one's perspective, which i contend is just evading the problem(s). real solutions shouldn't deal with perspectives or perceptions, but rather address the problem itself. this is sort of like modern "medicine" using drugs that only address certain symptoms rather than curing the disease itself (or even inhibiting its progress).

whether pain is the absence of pleasure, or pleasure is the absence of pain, we're screwed either way.

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Going back to what Resolute said, mental pain or anguish is more complex and difficult to treat than physical pain. CS Lewis wrote something to the effect of "it's easier to say 'my tooth is aching' than 'my heart is broken'". Some of the techniques mentioned in modern psychology masquerade as more than they really are, but in essence they're nothing more than mental morphine. They don't work for me, but if they work for someone else, who am I to condemn it.

well said, klingsor. i must emphasize, however, the "morphine" part. as long as no one claims that morphine is a cure or a real solution, i wouldn't hold it against those who use it.

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It all sounds romantic and glamorous when you say it like that Klingsor, but I'm sure you suspect I struggle with my demons & I do. I suppose if I were to pinpoint the fundamental difference between myself and some others is that I have no shame in crawling. Most men would never kneel if they find themselves stuck but my lack of dignity permits me to crawl through the sewage pipelines for the glorious prize of street living. I'm like a rodent and I'll beg, borrow & steal to survive & progress. A sort of action in the face of adversity & pain. All at the painful cost of accepting my situation, lowering my expectations and taking the exhaustive and humiliating micro-steps in achieving realistic goals, all of which go against my instincts. It's unpalatable for most and that's fine. I don't have pride, shame or dignity though so I'm good.

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Okay cool. I personally think it's unhealthy to change perspective especially if it's forced and not through some life altering experience. Completely ignores the pre/subconscious and manufactures schematic defences that causes the anxiety to be displaced amongst other things.

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real solutions shouldn't deal with perspectives or perceptions, but rather address the problem itself.

But if you can't change the situation then what other solution is there than perception and perspective?

I happen to feel that problems and perceptions are inexorably linked. How would a problem be known if not for the mind?

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But if you can't change the situation then what other solution is there than perception and perspective?

sometimes, there simply is no solution. that said, for some people, changing how they think can alleviate some of the symptoms of the situation.

I happen to feel that problems and perceptions are inexorably linked. How would a problem be known if not for the mind?

i guess a problem can't be known without awareness, but that doesn't mean that that awareness is necessarily unsound (tho it could be). i do agree however, that without awareness, there can be no problem. so you could say awareness is the problem. and i maintain that changing our awareness will not solve actual problems, but permanently eliminating our awareness, certainly would.

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I totally agree that wherever possible take direct action to solve a problem. If someone is standing on my toe I am not going to attempt to change my attitude about the winching pain - I am going to move his ass. But when I look at the facts of a situation I count mind as one of them.

It was on FB that I read 'if you can't change your circumstance change your mind' and on Sunday when I had to shovel snow for 5.5 hours in howling frigid wind it really helped me get through it.

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But when I look at the facts of a situation I count mind as one of them.

i think it goes without saying that i'm talking about a sound mind, not a delusional one. this, of course, leads us back to the relativism vs absolutism issue; in relativism, opinions are facts, and by changing one's view(s), one changes the facts of his/her situation. needless to say, i strongly reject such a ridiculous notion.

It was on FB that I read 'if you can't change your circumstance change your mind' and on Sunday when I had to shovel snow for 5.5 hours in howling frigid wind it really helped me get through it.

sorry to hear you had to shovel that much snow, and in such weather no less.

victim, i'm sure you realize that when you changed your mindset, you simply changed how you feel about the situation, not the actual situation itself. i won't deny that this can be beneficial (as klingsor also said), but with the following problems:

1. not everyone can do this. (klnigsor mentioned this as well).

2. it's not always the best option.

3. it doesn't eliminate the root cause of the problem. it only alleviates some of the symptoms.

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It seems to me you are putting up a wall where one doesn't exist. I see the mindset and the situation as interacting, unfolding together, not as two distinctly separate things.

I am not referencing any kind of new age magical thinking, nor even positive thinking, just a change. In this case it was a change from feeling overwhelmed and depressed to being committed to doing it, to being in action w/o judgement.

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