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In therapy today, i was talking about my Biological father. He was not a good, decent man, or person! The therapist knows about him. Because my brother use to talk to the same therapist , and use to take care of our father as he was dying. our father was abusive, and had a long history of violence, crimes, and overall a "bad guy" However, he spent his last days wheelchair bound , missing a leg, and on Kidney Diaylisis, he was only in his 60's.

When we were little, all my brothers and I were taken away by CPS, and split up due to parental abuse. It was my brother and I who saw him in his last days, he was not that kind of man> Or so it would appear to be .

I told my therapist about a time I was with my father, and made a remark to him. I said to him that "he was not my real father" I saw , when he looked at at me, my biological father, his EYEs were and had the devil in them .I am not kidding. It was pure evil. I said outloud to all in the room, hummm "devil eyes". I founf out a few days later that I was NOT the first person who had seen this in my father's EYEs.

What my therapist said to me , caught me completely offgaurd, and I am still shooken up about it . He asked me if I saw that in myself. GREAT:rolleyes: I've talked to the therapist about anther side of me, he knows their is anther side of me, a darker side> However, to have him compare it to my Biological father, one who was so cruel, and vicious, and violent> I looked at the time at the session was over, thank god .

WELL, i'll I said was I do take a lot out on myself... I Self harm badly, and I've SI'd severely many times. However there was a time before that, I was not so nice, and started acting out....

NOW, I am hating me, hating to think that I was created in the image of a monster, like father like daughter? I am his only daughter. Was this what the therapist was trying to get me to admit? trying to get me to tell him all the evil shit I've done? OK, sure when I was a kid, I was screwed up. I did do bad shit, really , really bad shit. Does the apple fall too far away from the tree? I SI so not to , harm others, to control that part of me? The angry, evil monster lurking , waiting to take over, and destroy whatever is in it's path.

This is not what I want . Guess that is why I sometimes become so out of control with the self harming. Because you do not go to prison for SI.... right! Just gives a person scars in the end. Who cares about that? (shurgs)

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I really don't think the therapist asked that question because she thinks you and your dad are alike. Quite the opposite; I believe she thinks you're a good person. What she was wondering about is whether you think you're evil. Because if you do, it might make more sense to burn off large sections of your skin than if you thought you were a good person.

I wonder, how often when your dad was suffering as he got older did he reach out to other people to help them with their struggles? How often did he bare his secrets so that they would know that there are other people with the same problems?

I've seen you do that. There's no doubt in my mind that you're not evil.

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I am uncertain about this, because our time was over. My therapist, he did start by telling me, that he had seen a father outside who he knew. Than a small child. The child , looked idenical to his father. Case in point, we all have characteristcs , behaviors that are from our parents, that was his point.

I had talked to him about a dark side of me before, and this is what he , put together, which I was not expecting him to do. Not intended the conversation to lean towards. It was , as i hope you pointe out, just insight into how I thought , and not what he was thinking about me.

Yes, I severely have injured , many times, and perhaps part of the reaon is to surpress the urges to act out in violence towards others? Even so, he did want to know it, and was encouraging me to tell him about this. As a child, yes, i did those things, and Yes, I had acted out in violence> before any form of Self injury ever occured. Any bad type of self harming. Which did not start up till later on, if not including the Eating Disorder that took a horrific turn.

He does not know I spen a lot of time on here, trying to help people feel better. That is a good thing, that is what I feel good about doing. It's confusing to me, because it is of being 2 different people. 2 different people, one extreme side to the other. The therapist has told me that before, he knows this , and is aware .

Because there is a extremely dark side of me violent, out of control, scary, and pure evil.

ANd then, one who is caring, kind, worried, concerned, helpful, sweet, loyal, patient, and soft spoken.

Maybe that is what he was trying to say. i am uncertain still. But it made me feel crappy inside.

I talked to my brother about it, he came over. Great, he told me he's seen my evil eyes, in me too. Just like our father> Asshole. He even told me to ask my sister n law if I did not believe him. :rolleyes:

Then my brother points out all my tattoos on my arm and neck, I have them on my fingers too, and then what's left , is covered in severe, to 2nd degree burns. I guess I do look scary. i am also fat too, and have a eyebrow piercing.

Perhaps I look like a beast. Or to somebody who sees me off the street as , DO Not Mess with ME> All blow your Fuckin, head off. ha ha , lol. i never thought i looked that scary.

I am reserved, and do not bug nobody. and I have a kid like voice. i am violent, YES, towards myself, only and that does not count.

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It does matter if your violent to yourself. You matter. Your feelings matter. Your health matters. In your flesh and blood is all flesh and blood.

I think it matters because we can actually destroy our own hearts, given enough time. As we relive the neglect and abuse from our parants we continue to teach ourselves that we are not worth loving and caring about. We have to be taught to love ourselves. So many children are taught to neglect and abuse themselves. Some do it physically, some do it with drugs, others do it socially, pushing those they love away from them, isolating themselves, even provoking thier loved ones to fear and reject them. Thats the deepest self-abuse of all as it cuts right to the soul.

Something I do is pretend I have a small child who has turned to me for love and affection because he can't get it from his family. I'm lucky because this is a memory for me and not just a mental exercise. I hold a pillow in my arms as if it is the body of the child and i whisper all the things i want him to hear. I tell him how awesome he is and beautiful he is. That he is the most wonderful child in the universe and how my life would be nothing without him. I tell him in the softest most loving whisper that i can muster how i want to hold him for the rest of time and never let go. How I want to show him the world and be with him everyday of his life.

In a way, i think i am talking to the child within me and expressing myself so emotionally to this fantasy child is a form of internal healing for me. Because in one child are all children, including the one inside of us.

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Thank you Slientmist for your response. Taking care of the child within is a form of healing. I am glad it's working for you.

I have something like u do, however, it is not as nice or positive . It is something i've discussed before in therapy, and it's in a form of demon. I am very serious. Eagle like , with large talons, that comes to destroy parts of me, which I am not always able to control. It is not turned outwards only towards the self.

it goes on allthe time , and becomes more sinister. Mostly to think about ways to SI, severely and when the time wll become perfect to do so. It becomes an obssessive thinking tothe point where the action is acted out in an impulsive manner, that i do not even no when it will happen> it is quite like waiting for a Volcano to erupt.... U can see that it is coming, however m, do not know when, However, it will , and when it does it is always devastating.

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Like Malign, I'm pretty sure that the therapist was NOT suggesting that you are evil inside, but rather to probe whether YOU BELIEVE that you are evil inside "just like your father". There is a big difference in those two positions! It's an interesting data point that you read the first interpretation into the comment and didn't even consider the second interpretation. What it suggests to me is that maybe you do consider it to be reasonable for your therapist to see you as having an inner evil or dark side. It bums you out to think that others can "see it too" but it doesn't shock you that someone would "think that" of you.

If it helps, I detect no evil in you at all. I experience a tough, fair and very compasionate person. I do see some "heart of darkness" sort of stuff, but as you point out - it is mostly hostility aimed at yourself.

Edited by Mark
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I have to agree with the others. My T has asked me similar questions about whether I feel a certain way or see certain attributes in myself. I think the goal of those types of questions is to make us look deep inside outselves and try to understand why we feel, say or do certain things. I doubt your T meant to imply you were evil or even that he saw evil in you but, rather, queried whether YOU felt that way about yourself, in an effort to understand why you may feel, say or do certain things. Like the others, I see you as a compassionate, diligent person who, probably as a result of the abuse heaped on you as a child, sees herself as less than "worthy" (as evidenced by your description of your self as "fat," "scary," and "a beast.") It makes me wonder if your T is trying to help you see the fallacy of those perceptions so that you can challenge them as this is a common form of therapy. In other words, if you can see that the basis for your belief is false then you can begin to accept that the belief is incorrect and, once you challenge the belief you can attack the behaviors caused by the false belief.

I am glad that you are able to point out the good in yourself, it shows that you do not see yourself as "pure evil" like you saw your dad. You do see a better person inside yourself that did not exist in your father. Do you have "some" characteristics of your father? Sure, I don't see how it would be genetically possible not to. But, whatever characteristics you may have inherited, you are not his clone. You are not him. You are your own person and, even by your self mutilation, you have shown a deep, sincere desire to save everyone else on the planet from the kind of pain and abuse your father exacted on you.

I challenge you to ruminate on your T's question. DO YOU see yourself as "like" your father? Or, are there differences? What are those differences? How is your relationship with YOUR son different than your father's relationship was with YOU? Do you believe your father deserved punishment for his treatment of you and your brothers? Do you believe you deserve to be punished? If so, why? I am inclined to think that, if you look at T's question as an opportunity to explore your perception of yourself, especially as compared to one you consider "evil," you would see that any characteristics you share with your father are purely genetic and the choices you have made in your own life have far removed you from being "like" him!

((((HUGS))) hon. I know this is a difficult thing for you to work through but I encourage you to keep working through it with the help of your T. And, know that we are here to encourage and support you and, when needed, reminded you of the generous, kind, giving spirit that you possess!

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You are all correct. It is certain he was only asking if I saw evil in myself. I've talked about it candidly, and the badness, true evil I have deep in my heart.

The foster mother who raised me was absusive. She brought me up to belive that I was never good enough to meet her expectations, called me names, belittled me, and was/is extremely controlling. I could do nothing right in her eyes, and she called me dumb Dora, would pull the back of my hair while kicking me up the stairs as I was in front of her as a child. I learned very early never to ever ask her for anything. A look from her would send fear down to my bones. I was intimadated, and had no self esteem. By the time I turned 12, i had hoarded pills from around the med. cabninets , taken them, and puked all over the place . By the age of 13 I was running away.

the family were, and still is a very religious people. I was told by the "mother" i was ruining their reputation. They were also upper middle class family.

It wasn't good . The Bad girl, good girl persona was born at a very young age> I did not KNow who I was, and still struggle with idenity issues. I did horrid things as a kid, acted out badly, however, did not get caught , for those things, they left burried inside me, and then at the breaking point I was placed in a mental Hospital when I had just turned 16. It was not by the foster parents>

I stayed there 3 different ones, for nearly 2yrs. It did not become better> the evilness, and badness always remains. Now, it comes out , directly when Self harming occurs , and at it's extreme. Most behaviors have been at it's extreme. It is ALL or nothing for me. Always . No matter what .

This is what makes me Volitale. I do not know how much I can control myself , or when the bomb will explode. It is not an excuse, I take full responsibility for my actions.

It is there, and always has been. WE are all my brothers, biological are born sinfill parents> who never should have reproduced. They were cousins. Related to each other. Which in turn made US disgusting , rotten , inhuman , dangerous beings. I am dead serious.

The Biological father had every right to abuse us as childern , what he ought to have done was to have killed all of us. Every brother , is messed up. Every brother has been in prison, done drugs, wild, crazy, messed up, and has taken a liken to the father who is dead, however we are his legend . What a shame that we are alive, all we do is self destruct. we are no good , contibuters to socitey, we are lousy, and gross. Despite being separtated from the orginal parents we are still geneticlly inclined to fuck up , and my biggest FEAR is that I could hurt someone. I don't want to, however, I often wonder if that evil is forever lurking just beneath the surface.

i've been what it seems like forever self destructing.

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Cathy, as you know, most of us here are not experts. We respond to each other as we can, hoping it will help. Here's what I want to share. Last week driving home, there was a turtle crossing the road. I hate that sight! I immediately slowed down, and turned around. Since it was a country highway, and I was going highway speed, it took a minute. When I got to the turtle it was too late.:mad::mad::). This is the second time this has happened to me. Turtles are especially dear to me. I am having a tough time writing this, and I'm not even being descriptive. Here is my point: this is trauma for me. It's effect: I have the HARDEST time even approaching how I feel about this. I can't do it. I turn away, it is so hard. I can't be me in these moments. It is too hard.

I don't believe in comparing stories. Your life is yours and my life is mine. However, your early life, when you were developing your personality and coping, was trauma after trauma after trauma. I cannot possibly imagine what that was like. I cannot possibly imagine how you kept yourself intact. How CAN a person do it, facing trauma after trauma?

I would like to reframe this talk of being evil or being good. Is it possible to explain what happens to you in SI in terms of what repeated, unrelenting trauma has done to you? Further, what about your father's "evil"? What do you know of his story, what he went through, how he was treated? These things tend to repeat and repeat if no one intervenes, if no one breaks the cycle. The compulsion is that strong, because the trauma is THAT DAMAGING.

Cathy, I see you as the one, the one that is breaking the cycle as best you can. You are NOT traumatizing your son. You are NOT traumatizing your friends here at this site, you are reaching out to us with your compassion. In time, it might happen that you break the cycle with yourself too. I don't know. None of us knows. I do know that we will continue to be here with you, continue to be with you as you unravel all the harm that has come your way, all the wrong. My guess is that is what happened to your father too, tons of trauma, only there was no one, and no part of himself, that could right what was done to him.

Just to let you know, I had a friend listen to me this weekend about the turtle. He shared my sorrow, and he read me some very good poems on the same subject. It really helped me to better stay in my skin after that, even though it is still difficult for me. That is what we can do for each other. We can listen to each other and help each other bear it just a little bit better.

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Thank you , finding my way . You have helped me , and have given me so much to think about. Last night, was not a god night. I was in a crappy mood for some reason and just not feeling right. I wrote down what I feeling . Sometimes it does not even make sense to me . I don't know much about my real father's background .Just that he was a bad man, did bad things, and was violent.

I would have had the same reaction towards the turtle. I am a animal lover. that would of been difficult to have seen. I do not do well with that stuff either . My Yorkie is such a big part of my life.

I apreciate your time and comments helping me understand .

Thank You.


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I printed this thread out and showed my therapist this morning. I felt like it was important enough to share with him. Often times I am able to communicate so much better writing , then verbalizing my feelings. i've been on here a while, and feel confident in sharing thoughts that are difficult to express.

I struggle with the evil and the dark side of me often times, and has never become easy. Steve , my therapist , and I talk about this too. ANd he knows my childhood history has been very bad. He helped me today, by his feedback and support.

He told me it was not my fault that my foster mother treated me the way she did, and had her own problems, took it out on me, basically used me as her punching bag. Emotionally, and verbally. I grew up very frightend of her, and she always let me know that I was never good enough , and never met her expectations. SHe is/was a perfectionist, and and made it clear to me at a young age that I was different, bad, and dirty>

The foster parents always talked about my biological parents in front of me. Letting me know how bad they were and my real dad being so evil and sick. They would go on constantly about my real parents and how awful they were and what bad people they are.

Hearing about my real parents , I idenified with them. They wer emy parents, where I came from. I must be this way too. At a young age this is how I felt. It only became further engrained inside me at a young age because of how my foster mom treat me, + how they talked about my biological parents.

This is why I am "split" ANd to this day I struggle with it . The good me, the evil me, and it is extreme.

It scares me because sometimes , the evil me is ready to come out, and I feel dangerous, or violent. I believe that this is why I SI so badly. I've learned to take it out onto myself.

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Hi mscat! Hope things are OK with you for the now. :). You have really been getting to the heart of the matter it sounds like. No, your foster parents did not do a good job of parenting you. Their words did not help your young mind knit things together to heal from the first set of parents. Injury on top of injury. It makes every bit of sense that those words "evil" and "good" would split you. How could the "good" you tolerate the presence of evil if it was good? How could the "evil" you stand the good you, knowing that "good" wanted to get rid of that part of you? How can anyone win that kind of battle?:P.

What if you reframed that whole split, Cathy. What if you sat down with your inner child and honored her, for all she's been through. She was too little and too confused to have a deep psychological understanding of what was happening to her. She was being hurt terribly, hurt after hurt, and the only sense she could make of it all was the talk of good and evil. The adults in her life did not model anything else to her. She preserved your "good" side so she could live, at the expense of continuing to punish your "bad" side. As kids, we do what we know. This was your environment. It was all your little girl knew.

Somewhere along the line you learned to love. You love your son even though he does bad things sometimes. The adult you can love. The child you can love, because every child can. The trauma of your upbringing, though, split you from being able to love you. You were taught the "evil" you was unlovable, should never be loved, should only be punished.

What if the "evil" you is not really evil? What if "evil" you is damaged, traumatized, confused you? The part of you that ESPECIALLY needs to be loved? Your first set of parents weren't going to own up to that, because they'd have to take responsibility for what they were doing to you. They clearly weren't going to do that, and may have been way too damaged themselves. Your second set of parents weren't up for that responsibility either. They just wanted nice little kids that reflected nice little things back to them; they were limited too.

I hope I am not going on too long on things that are not my business. It is so hard to do the work you are doing, Cathy. I just want you to know I so admire you and your courage. I know how hard it is for me to deal with my damage, and yours is so much harder.

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Thank you finding my way ,

your words and thoughts are incredibly insightful. You gave me so much to think about, and I have not been able to ever put it together at all. I will be re reading your response many times, because there was so much to learn, and figure out . It is hard because i understand that i do not have the answers myself, and it is confusing to me, as old as I am , still trying to sort out where I stand, and how to feel. The good part of me mostly stands out i believe. However, a lot of times i am totlaly numb, and disconnected. Aespecially around others.

Again, I thank you so much for your insight.


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