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tired and depressed


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Hi karai, I'm sorry about what happened to you. I can only imagine how frightening that experience was, losing control like that. I am no expert, but maybe it's a direct result of your opening up to your T and maybe your body just needed more time unburdening itself of its pent up anxieties, more time than was alotted with your T? If that's the case, then it's a good thing. Maybe it's a sort of cleansing, like vomiting (which is not pleasant) that relieves you of poisons.

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Hi OCDmom,

I never really connected my session w/ what happened to me in that parking structure but it makes sense. It probably was, as you say, all my anxiety being released. Yeah, I got rid of some of those poisonous thoughts, but unfortunately, there's more where that came from, the worse of it, I'm afraid! I just really fear this thing happening again and I need to learn how to control it. I don't like being lost in that cloud of bad feeling. It's scary--too scary! Thanks for your insight and helping me to make sense of this. I'm still trying to figure this out. Take care.

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Guest ASchwartz

Hi Karai,

What happened to you in the parking lot is definitely connected with the session. At least that is my opinion as well as the opinion of ocdmom. I cannot say for sure because I am not your therapist and do not know all the details and this is the Internet and that is fine, but, I venture to guess that you experienced a dissociative state as a result of revealing whatever you revealed. Of course, panic was right there, too. It is the not remembering that makes it dissociative.

I have a favorable reaction to your therapist for wanting you to return to the session. I have done that in the past under similar circumstances. Returning to the office does not mean going over the sensitive material but just getting calmed and grounded again. I know this is difficult stuff but that does not mean it is "bad stuff."

Please remember, you are the captain of your therapy ship. I mean that you go as fast or slow as you want. You do not have to go any faster than you want. In fact, next session it would make sense to talk about the parking lot experience more than anything.

Also remember that you do not have to drive home immediately under those circumstances. You can sit in the car or drive out of the parking structure, pull up and sit and breathe deeply and calm yourself.

Karai, and everyone, please, please, please remember that therapy is not only those fifty minutes in the office but all the time during the week also. We therapists are there for you. You are not intruding and we are there for you. Any therapist who does not want to talk to you and only keeps it STRICTLY to 50 minutes per week is not worth seeing.

Allan with lots of encouragement. :o

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Hi Allan,

Thank you for your thoughts on what occurred to me last Monday. At least now I know my sudden emotional state came from somewhere and not just out of the blue! It just was so totally unexpected. I've never had a panic attack before, or any similar experience where it hit me so suddenly that it was like I couldn't "see", just could feel the panic and the intense feeling of wanting to cry! I never cry in public, or make a "scene" so those feelings really made a big, bad impact on me.

The real reason I didn't want to go back to my T's office was because all I could think of was that he was going to put me in the hospital! That's why all I wanted to do was leave. You're right, tho', I should have sat in the car or pulled over, 'cuz after I "woke up" half way home, it scared me to think that I could have caused an accident or killed someone. Well, I did make it home and, thank God, there were no reports on the news of a hit and run that afternoon!

Now I'm not sure if I should reveal the rest of my death related tho'ts, the details of "how"--the methodology--that run thro' my mind sometimes. I fear, this would only make things worse the next time I leave his office. I don't want to experience another panic attack. I guess that too will also have to be addressed in my next session.

I think a lot of us feel we are bothering our T's when we call them, or have a need to talk to them and it's not during our regular appt. My T has made sure that I had his answering service number, esp. when he went on vacation, and also told me to call the office when I needed to, and he does return my calls. But, somehow I still feel like I'm a bother and am being so needy. It's reassuring to hear you say that we are not intruding. Thank you.

(Sorry for not responding sooner. I had to digest what you wrote,and think about it some more, but the first time I read your reply, all I saw were those words..."dissociative state"! And all I could think was, Ugh! another label, "dissociative"!?! I know what you are referring to, but I guess all these technical terms just makes me wonder what my T's notes of my sessions are filled with, esp. after my last session! But, I don't think I would want to ever see his notes; it would only depress me more!, e.g. really needs help, a loser, should be put away for good, straight-jacket candidate, NUTS! bonkers, president of the head-bangers club, cog missing on the wheel! etc. etc.---- just kidding---I hope!) :)

Edited by karai
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Kara, can I intrude so far as to suggest a therapeutic assignment for you?

Try imagining what your therapist is really writing in his notebook, something like:

Special person who's having difficulty coping with the crap that life has thrown at her.

Because we're all special, and having difficulties doesn't mean there's anything bad about us.

At least tell him what you think he's writing. See what he says.

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Guest ASchwartz

Hi Karai,

Malign has a very good idea and what she said is true about all of us having problems and that does not mean we are bad people. Thank you, Malign. :)

Karai, people are not just "put into the hospital." I have read this fear from many people and I am puzzled as to why so many seem to believe that a therapist can just put them into the hospital?

The fact is that, to be admitted to a hospital for psychiatric reasons there has to be powerful evidence of suicide intent or homicide intent. People can be upset as they want or need and that will not get them hospitalized unless it is clear that suicide is intended. So, stop worrying so much.

I also know that patients do not want to "intrude" on their therapists. Well, that is what we are there for. Being a therapist is not a part time job and many of us even take our cell phones with us on vacations.

In fact, when my patients would tell me that they did not want to "disturb me," I would joke, "Don't worry, I'm already distrubed.":D

Also remember, you set the agenda for sessions and you need not discuss anything you do not wish to go into. Sometimes a person needs to wait.

Allan

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You're very welcome, Allan, except I'm tempted to tease you about my inadvertent sex change. :-)

My wife used to mix her gender pronouns (because the Chinese don't have them) even when talking about her own two kids. Confusing, but amusing.

malign a.k.a. Mark (not Dombeck, a different one)

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Hi malign,

Have you tried that before w/ your T, asking what (s)he was writing in her/his notes during your session? You know me, I will think the worse and imagine the worse. If he left his notes lying there and had to leave the office for a moment, I don't think I would dare even peek at what he was writing; I'm afraid I would see that my suspicions were only confirmed! :eek: I think, if I did get to see what he wrote, I may not come back or my mind would obsess on what he was writing about me in every session. I am curious tho', about what his answer would be if I did ask---would he dismiss the question or turn it around on me?!! But, I don't think he would tell me what he was exactly writing in there, mostly to keep me from getting upset! Thanks malign, you are the special one; I don't think I would use that word to describe myself, tho'. Take care. :)

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Hi Allan,

When I first started therapy, I was given a copy of the "Policies and Practices to Protect the Privacy of Your Health Information". On this notice is one item labelled "Serious Threat to Health or Safety". It says that your T "may disclose protected health information regarding you where there is clear and imminent danger to you or another individual..".etc...."If you are at risk, I may also contact family members or others who could assist in providing protection". I'm sure you have given a similar notice to your clients and I'm sure all of the members on this site who have gone or is going to therapy, have received some form of this notice also. I asked my T to clarify this item. He gave me an example of one of his clients actually saying that he was going to kill himself---so, pretty much clear cut. He also mentioned some other things that, to me was not as clear. So, that's where the fear lies---how close do we come before it gets us in trouble? How much can we reveal? I know of one person who just mentioned he had suicidal tho'ts and was hospitalized for that (not a client of my T). If my T drew his line so low, I would have been hospitalized last week! I think that is why so many of us worry about this.

Regarding the bothering the doc thing, well, I guess it's because I don't feel important enough to intrude in someone else's life, especially when it is not during my appointment. I know my T tells me to call him when I need to, but I don't want to seem so needy and weak! I assume it is natural for us to be needy when we are starting therapy, but I am not comfortable w/ that feeling.

I happened to be going thro' some of my old posts and it seems both you and Mark have responded to this very same hospitalization issue that I have brought up more than a couple of times. I apologize. I guess I am more worried and scared than I thought. I really feel for my T. I probably am his most pathetic client ever, but I give him (and you and Mark) a lot of credit for being so patient and putting up w/ me! I'll try very hard not to dwell so much on this again. After next week Tuesday (my next appt.), maybe I won't need to! Thank you! :)

Edited by karai
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Kara,

I don't know how he would respond to the question, that's why I suggested you ask. ;-)

I can't say any of the (three, four?) therapists I've had ever directly showed me their notes (not all of them took notes regularly, either), but all of them were willing to answer questions about their diagnosis and what they thought of me. Now, not always directly! :-)

We all know how therapists are. It's their job to keep us thinking of us, not of them. But if you're as concerned as you seem, I don't see how they would just ignore it.

I don't think I would peek at the notes on my own, either, though, but for a different reason: respect for the therapist. I would assume that if they thought I should see the notes, they would show me. I don't assume this because they're an authority figure, but because I'm paying them as a professional to use their judgment in my best interests.

See, in the long run, it's not going to matter what this one person might have thought of you. It's going to matter what you think about yourself. That's why I thought it was more important for you to look at that, than it is to look at their notes.

(I'm not even going to address the stuff you said to Allan about being the "most pathetic patient". You've already heard my opinion. I'll just have to wait until you're ready to listen.) :-)

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Hi malign,

You're right, you know, that I should be concerned about what I think of myself rather than of what the therapist thinks of me. He is, after all helping me to cope w/ myself---my self esteem. That is exactly what we are working on right now in t. but it seems I'm just not getting it, yet. It's very difficult to change all those tho'ts, which I've had for probably all my life, into something positive.

Regarding that comment about me being the most pathetic patient, I really do believe that--and I am hearing what you say, but hearing and believing are 2 totally different things and a world apart for me. It's so hard for me to believe anything nice anybody says about me, but I'm working on it very hard--at least now I am aware that a lot of my thinking is negative, and I can even catch some of them.

You're also right about respecting the therapist doing his job. I wouldn't really peek at his notes for that reason too. I guess I was just thinking out loud. I'd like to think he would trust me not to do that too. Besides, I have asked him about my diagnosis and he has answered me, not in detail, but enough to satisfy my concerns.

Thank you, malign, you've always given me a lot to ponder. One day soon, I hope, my mind will accept all that I am learning in T. Take care. :P

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Kara,

I do know what you mean about being hard to convince about your self-worth. I never seemed to make progress against my own, well, crappy self-image when I attacked it directly, either. (Though I never really tried a CBT-based therapy.) But it has got a bit better lately, without me really knowing why.

If you really look at what you just wrote, though, I could find at least a couple of reasons for you to be ... mildly contented with yourself (I'm trying not to ask for "proud" all at once.) ;-)

By what you said, you're clearly trustworthy; you have enough integrity to wonder about the notes but not violate that trust. You're also trying to stay open to all of us prodding at the "facts" you learned a long time ago. That takes patience and a willingness to face criticism.

But hey, I'm not supposed to be the one making this list. :-P

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Guest ASchwartz

Hey there Malign,

It is always nice to get positive feedback from someone. It is great that you told Karai these wonderful things. Good work. :)

In fact, Malign, I have found you to be a warm, sensitive and caring person here in the forums and it is great that you are here.

Allan :)

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Hi malign,

Allan is right, you are warm, sensitive and caring. I am surprised that you feel so negatively about your own self-image. Your words portray a person who is self-confident and aware, and I really do think you are that. In fact, you are one of my favorites on this site and your responses to posts are always tho'tful and helpful.

Contented is not really what I would consider myself to be at all, even mildly. Maybe one day I will be, but that will take a lot of self-acceptance, which is very difficult for me at this point in my life. I guess I am willing to face criticism because I realize I need a lot of help w/ my self-esteem and I desperately want to get better. I am tired of my roller coaster moods and want to just learn how to handle them, or to get rid of them forever! Trustworthy and integrity? You are too kind. I don't think I would portray myself in those words. When I am complemented on anything, I tend to dismiss or deny it. I just realized I hear a whisper in my head saying, "don't believe them, they are just fooling you!", or something similar. Well, I guess I am making some progress in therapy if I am hearing those negative tho'ts. Now, if only I could replace them w/ positive ones that I believe!

Thank you for your support. Take care. :)

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi AndreaB,

I'm not sure if you are talking to me, but if you are, yes, I've been pretty good these days. How have you been? I hope all is well with you too. My T gave me a self esteem tape to listen to recently and it has a lot of self affirmations on it. I repeat them to myself (even if I don't truly believe everything it says as yet), and I haven't had one of "those" bad tho'ts in over a week, so I guess it is working. It feels good and things are looking brighter. When my boss gets to being stupid, I go home and listen to my T's tape (in my T's voice) and this helps my anxiety level to drop tremendously. I guess I use it as a crutch (a comforting voice when I need it the most!), but my T prefers to call it one of the weapons in my self esteem arsenal bag, or something like that. Whatever it's called, it's helping me to deal w/ a lot of the crap out there!

Anyway, take care and thank you! :)

Edited by karai
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