sometimes there really is no alternative

[Proverbs31:28]

thats where i find myself today. with no hope. no future. no reason to seek out another day. sometimes, no matter what everyone else in the world says, there is simply no alternative to death. no one else will ever know or understand the feeling of complete lifelessness i feel. and, no one will ever forgive me for not being able to continue on for their sake. life is no longer lived for me but for others. sometimes, that is just not enough.

[Mark]

I'm really sorry to hear you are feeling so low today. The numbness you describe - that is a big reason people report as to why they self-injure - it helps them feel alive again. I'm not recommending self-injury, but it does illustrate just how painful and awful it is to feel so numb.

You say that you are living for others, rather than yourself. Who are those others? What feelings do you have that make you continue to want to stay alive for others? Maybe thinking about this will help?

Some days just do suck, and the only thing to do is to go to bed and wake up the next day.

[Proverbs31:28]

if it were simply a matter of how i felt for one day, i would agree- turn off the lights and shut the world out until tomorrow. but it is not one day. or even two. it is daily. it is numbness from the very depths of the soul outward. i have already tried the si thing- it didn't help. even as i watched the blood flow i could not feel it. i am completely dead inside.

there is simply nothing that brings me joy anymore. there is nothing about my life that makes it worth living for me . i live only for my kids and the few people in my life who might be upset by my passing. everyone says suicide is a selfish act. i don't think it is. i think it is selfish of everyone else to want me to put aside how i feel (i.e. suicidal) so that they are not hurt.

my kids will be gone to camp soon and that creates a very unique window of opportunity for me. i love them dearly. but that love is not enough to nurture and sustain them. there is so much more that they need that i will never be able to give them. as for calling my doc, i no longer trust him. i no longer trust anyone. people say only what they think you want to hear. even doctors. once my 15 minutes are up and scripts are in hand, my value to him is gone. when i bleed, i no longer feel the pain. obviously, i am already dead inside. all i am speaking of is disposing of the body. suicide is not death- death has already occured. suicide is closure.

[Guest ASchwartz]

Lifeless,

But, why do you feel so lifeless and hopeless? Forget chemistry and forget diagnosis...what is happening or what has happened to make you feel so bad so much of the time?

Is there anything that gives you pleasure. I mean, you seem to value your children and that is great. Do you enjoy anything else? For example, my first cup of coffee in the morning tastes soooo good to me. Are there small, little pleasures like that for you???

What has happened to make you feel so dead inside, so empty, so hopeless???

Allan

[nightfalls]

Hi Lifeless

You are in alot of emptyness I think rate now and that hurts like hell in I'm sure and extream way. You said that the only thing to live for is your kids? and not to hurt anyone else right? and you said that your love is not enough to nurture and sustain them I have to disagree I think that the very act of loving them is exactly what they NEED in order to survive and the very thing you need to survive just loving each other and getting each day to the next is what is important. Don't think about next year or the next 5 years just getting to tomorow and then the next day focusing on your love for your kids is SOOOO important. You need to give them the love they require to succeed for THERE life. May I share with you what I did in my depth of a depressed zone? I felt empty and basically dead inside and could not get any joy from anything as much as I tryed everything hurt I could not see any good in my days or my existance for that matter. So I did not live for me in those days I lived for my son and tryed to veiw the world in his eyes. Each night before bed I asked HIM WHAT WAS HIS BEST MOMENT FOR THE DAY some days it was the park,some was the pizza I ordered sometimes it was watching a movie with me....Either way it was enough to get me to the next day. Mabe you could find something even posting here that can give you a piece of meaning each day until the day your depresion lifts.....just my thoughts I hope you will take care...

[Proverbs31:28]

Lifeless,

But, why do you feel so lifeless and hopeless? Forget chemistry and forget diagnosis...what is happening or what has happened to make you feel so bad so much of the time?

Is there anything that gives you pleasure. I mean, you seem to value your children and that is great. Do you enjoy anything else? For example, my first cup of coffee in the morning tastes soooo good to me. Are there small, little pleasures like that for you???

What has happened to make you feel so dead inside, so empty, so hopeless???

Allan

it has been a process of dying. i did not just wake up dead one day. little by little, bit by bit, all that is worth livinig for has been ripped from my clutches. no, i have no source of pleasure. no joy. my only pleasure is my children but that is not fair to them. their lives should not be purposed on whether or not they bring mom joy. their lives should be full of their own joys. i used to have hobbies but haven't for years. i used to exercise but haven't for years. i used to be social and outgoing but haven't been for years. i used to have a career and goals but they are gone.

i can no longer look outward for purpose, meaning or pleasure. when i look inward i see only guilt, shame, regret, insignificance, powerlessness, hurt, sadness and brokenness.

i used to believe in the light at the end of the tunnel but how far must you crawl before the light appears? just because YOU (collectively) can see the light does not mean i can. perhaps you are crawling through a different tunnel. why has no one considered that not every tunnel will have a light. some are buried so deeply underground, that is what flashlights are for. but, if you live your life by the light of a battery powered torch, one day soon, the light will fade. that is what has happened. i have been following the artificial light created by mind while pursuing the light everyone else tells me is waiting for me. i now realize i have been lied to. i can't trust those who say they want to help because all they can offer is that "one day" it will be better. really? how does anybody know this? how can anyone prove it? they can't! empirically speaking, i have no reason to believe this. life is what it is. would anyone tell a cancer patient that it is wrong and selfish of him to want to end the pain and anguish in which he lives? i doubt it. why, then, am i wrong for wanting to end my pain?

[Natalie]

Lifeless-

You are not at all wrong for wanting to end the pain. It's terrible to be in pain and you shouldn't have to suffer. What we are suggesting is that suicide isn't the best way to deal with your pain. As much as it seems impossible to you right now, there are ways decrease the pain and suffering that CAN work if you give them the chance and are willing to fight. That's the key- no matter how exhausted and bitter and "done" you are, you have to fight. No one can give you a "magic wand treatment" and fix it immediately. You have to keep recharging and switching that battery pack as you crawl through the tunnel.

You suggest that you have been lied to and that you have no reason to believe that one day it will be better. I want to suggest that this way of thinking is part of your illness. You have to find a way to believe that we do want to help you. Many, many people who have felt the way you do have gotten better. I don't have hard numbers at my fingertips, but there are gazillions of research studies that show that mental illnesses of all kinds get better with treatment. The key, and the most frustrating part, is to experiment around until you find what works best for you, and to assume that what is best for you may have to change as you change across time.

What do you think that you could do differently to help reduce your pain?

[Catmom]

Dear Lifeless-

I know what is is to feel despair and anger as you are feeling right now. There have been times in my life that I wanted to end it all. Later, I was always so glad that I didn't. Please don't devalue yourself to the point that you leave your kids with the legacy of a mom's suicide.

On this site, I have found you to be a very kind and compassionate person to me when I have posted about being in pain. Don't let the negative thoughts in your head overcome the goodness within you. You are in my prayers, Lifeless.

(((HUG)))

Catmom

[kaudio]

All those who play on the field will have tasted defeat. There is no player in the world who has not lost before. However, the best players will give everything they have to stand up again. Ordinary players take a while to get back on their feet. While losers will remain flat on the field.

University of Texas Longhorns Headcoach Darrell Royal

We are human. Each of us will share in the taste of defeat and each will attest that it is an experience that carves itself deep into our bodies and minds. But, in life, there is no such a thing as loser. We live through each moment of our defeat, day after day, in what seems to be drone like monotony. But, no matter how long it takes, we find our feet again. Our bodies and our minds continue to move on even while we suffer in darkness because we don't need lights in our tunnels. We need to reach out into the darkness, grasp our surroundings, choose a direction, and continue on.

Here with the Mental Help community, we're all moving through our own tunnels. Our posts are like echoes that let us know we're not alone, and, whatever the circumstances, be it in darkness or in light, we trudge on together as fellow human beings and as fellow players. So, as ridiculous or unreasonable as this may seem, lifeless, I choose to believe you will slog on with us. In my mind's eye, despite never having met you before, and never having truly understood the extent of your pain, I too leave you at the foot of the mountain:

I leave Sisyphus at the foot of the mountain! One always finds one’s burden again. But Sisyphus teaches the higher fidelity that negates the gods and raises rocks. He, too, concludes that all is well. This universe henceforth without a master seems to him neither sterile nor futile. Each atom of that stone, each mineral flake of that night-filled mountain, in itself forms a world. The struggle towards the heights is enough to fill a man’s heart. One must imagine Sisyphus happy!

Albert Camus

[Catmom]

Kaudio,

I don't know if lifeless saw or will see your post but I appreciated seeing it. It is true that we all "taste defeat" at one time or another in life. Knowing that helps one feel less alone in one's struggles. Thank you.

Catmom

[Proverbs31:28]

i don't even know what else to day. i am just so numb inside. i do not feel like i feel anything anymore. not joy, sadness, sorrow, nothing. my every thought is punctuated by thoughts of death and suicide. that is how i spend most of my days- thinking about ways to kill myself. wishing, praying, hoping God would call me home so i wouldn't have to do anything myself. when i get in the car, i think about driving into a pole or a wall or off a bridge. when i eat, i think about jamming a knife into my heart. when i bathe, i think about slitting my wrists or dropping a hairdryer in with me. i watch my kids play and think "why am i not enjoying this?" i turn on my favorite shows and stare past the tv, not hearing or seeing anything. i pick up my computer and all i can do is search for ways to die, ways to hide a suicide. it is just consuming my life. the only reason i have existed for as long as i have is because i thought it was in the best interest of my children. it can't be. living like this cannot possibly be designed to benefit them in any way. i have been depressed for years. i have had major depressive episodes before. and, yet, this feels different. lower. deeper. more final.

[Guest ASchwartz]

I notice that you have not really replied to Natalie's question:

"What do you think that you could do differently to help reduce your pain?"

You know, I am not referring to seeing light at the end of any tunnel when I ask you if there are any things you enjoy. I am talking about the tiny things that we all take for granted. I notice that you do seem to enjoy your children and, I am guessing, that you are expecting to miss them when they are in camp. Does having them be away at camp make you feel very sad?

Do you have friends where you live, or neighbors? Do you greet them in the morning? Do you go to the grocery store? Do you chat with the person at the cash register? Do you get a cup of coffee at Starbucks? Do you sit in Starbucks and chat? Do you go out for a walk?

I do not remember what you may have written, but, have you considered psychotherapy? Over the years I have worked with people who felt just as depressed and hopeless as you and coming to therapy and talking really helped them a lot. Once they started medicine they came to feel even better.

By the way, I notice that a lot of people here at the support community really care about you and are really wanting to be supportive.

Allan

[nightfalls]

Hi Lifeless,

I get what you are talking about and I hear you that you are numb rate now. I feel for you, and wish I could say more to help you. I think that although you may not feel it or even want situations around you like (watching tv and looking past it) it is I'd say still important to do it. Mabe I can add to what Allen said about looking for small things you do. I wanted to suggest that even if mabe you don't do these things he suggested that people do in everyday life like chat with the cashier at the grocery store, mabe it could be something to try just for a chance, I think that adding some difference to what you do do in each day can at least be different. It may not make any difference at all, it may make all the difference who knows??? but at least you could try? try mabe doing opposite of what you feel you would like to do...If you want to be alone, go out and make yourself talk to one stranger...just to be opposite, and don't worry how you may sound or look because you don't know them and don't even have to ever see them again.. I tryed this once just to challenge myself I was so feed up anyways I though why not, I had nothing to loose by trying. I actually ended up enjoying my opposite self I made it a bit of a game. If depression makes our thoughts go off then mabe the opposite of what we think is a correct thought..???who knows.

Please take care, I'm really trying to find something to help you feel something mabe I can make you smile just for a moment..

[Proverbs31:28]

I notice that you have not really replied to Natalie's question:

"What do you think that you could do differently to help reduce your pain?"

I notice that you do seem to enjoy your children and, I am guessing, that you are expecting to miss them when they are in camp. Does having them be away at camp make you feel very sad?

I really do not know what to do differently which is why I suppose I didn't answer. Believe me, there are things I have tried. I remember a therapist telling me once something like "affect follows behavior" so the theory is if you do happy things and go happy places you'll be happier. So, I take my kids to the park or to playgroup and I can pretend all is fine but, once I am home, I realize how fake it all is and I am miserable again.

This is the first year that they are both going to camp. Its actually a medical camp and there is a great staff so I don't worry about their physical needs but, yes, I do miss them. In the past, DD and I spent that week enjoying each other. This year, she is going to. I know it will be good for her but I know it means I have no reason to get out of bed everyday since I don't have to get her ready or feed her, etc. So, yes, I will miss them. I will also dread the loneliness despite how much I think I crave it.

Do you have friends where you live, or neighbors? Do you greet them in the morning? Do you go to the grocery store? Do you chat with the person at the cash register? Do you get a cup of coffee at Starbucks? Do you sit in Starbucks and chat? Do you go out for a walk?

No, to all of these. I do ocassionally speak to my neighbor (elderly lady) but pretty much avoid most people. I go to the gorcery store either in the middle of the day or middle of the night when no one is there or I have to go with my "safe person" so I don't run screaming from the store. I use the self check-out so that I will not have to be engaged in conversation. I do not go to coffeehouses or places designed to meet and engage other people. I don't go for walks because people seem to want to talk to you. There are a handful of "safe people" I can talk to, visit with or share with but I do not spend much time with them. I do not answer the doorbell or the phone 90% of the time- I just fall apart and have terrible fanatasies about why people are calling/visiting.

I do not remember what you may have written, but, have you considered psychotherapy?

I have been to therapy and found it to be helpful once I got a therapist I "clicked with." But, then I was forced to move in with family 2 hours from my pdoc and therapist. I still drive 2 hours every 3-4 months to see the pdoc and get my meds adjusted but I can't drive every week to the therapist. I am so terrified of opening myself up all over again to a new therapist that, even though I know I should go, I haven't. I have looked up phone numbers to make appointments and then freeze when I start thinking about sharing my story yet again. ANd, then, yuou throw in the overall fear and distrust of doctors and it is really hard for me to find anyone new.

By the way, I notice that a lot of people here at the support community really care about you and are really wanting to be supportive.

Allan

I definitely appreciate the support here. I guess its why I come back. I wish I could believe what they say. I wish I could see it in myself.

[Llilacs]

I understand and feel this

[Mark]

Part of living is dealing with disruption, unfortunately. It's much easier to do when you are feeling resilient and much harder to do when you are feeling frightened/anxious and hopeless.

I'm heartened to know that you know it would be a good idea to seek out a new therapist, and very heartened to know that you've gotten as far along the road to actually doing this as you have. that means two things to me. 1) you can do this, 2) there is a part of you that wants to do this.

Motivation is not at all strightforward. This rational part of you knows that you would be better off with therapy (provided that it was as good or better as what you used to have before you moved). The anxious part of you says, "it's too jarring and frightening to establish that relationship - too much uncomfortable anxiety has to be faced to make that happen - not worth it" so these parts of you balance out in favor of the anxious part.

It helps to break big anxiety producing tasks into smaller tasks that individually are less daunting. maybe it would be a good exercise to do that here. What exactly is involved in finding a new therapist. Also - what are the parts about it that are especially frightening? If we knew those things, maybe we could problem-solve. Like - you have safe people who help you go to the supermarket, right? Maybe one could help you go to the new therapist the first time or two?

[Proverbs31:28]

Thank you, Mark, for your suggestions. I am still really struggling at this point but I am also really trying to get through for my kids' sake. I have decided 2 things:

1. I am staying with my BF and her family while my kids are at camp. It will keep me safe and distracted from my thoughts. She was concerned about me being alone that week and invited me. I was initially resistent but know it is best.

2. I emailed a list of therapists on my insurance plan to a friend who is a LCSW locally and asked her to give me input and advice in selecting one. She is reviewing the list and gathering info for me and willl help me get placed with a therapist. SHe knows my whole history so she kinda knows what I need in a therapist and what has not worked for me in the past.

It just sucks when every day you have to make a decision about whether/why you should live. Somedays, you just can't find a good answer.

[Mark]

This is excellent progress. Every step along the way counts; not just the ultimate one of actually showing up at the office - becuase then there are still more steps of actually doing the work, and dealing with the transition to a new therapy relationship, and any expectations of change that don't happen in the expected time frame, or whatever it is that is difficult to push through. It's so important to realize that this recovery from severe depression (or any severe illness) is a *process* and not a binary off/on sort of thing. There isn't a switch to throw to make you better; you get better in inches. ambivalence about treatment is normal, and two steps forward followed by one step backwards is still a step in the good direction.

[Lalu22]

Lifeless~

I feel great sympathy for your situation. I have been to many therapists and the most discouraging thing, the thing which brought me closest to the point of absolute despair and hopelessness, was being misdiagnosed.

Of course, no therapy wasn't any good either.

Eventually I did the groundwork, and had the good fortune, to find a man who "got it." The work I am doing now, though I have been experiencing more pain and symptoms (pity my poor husband who has to deal with my lethargy in the day and whimpering in the night), at least rings true and holds out hope. I feel, to use the Sisyphus metaphor, that it is not inevitable that when I get this huge boulder to the top of the hill, it may not roll down upon me again. It is possible that I might get to level ground. I think you could feel that way, too. I hope whomever your LCSW friend finds for you takes a very careful history, is knowledgable, and gets it right. If this person does not, I hope you find another, and another if necessary. Just because 10 or 20 may not succeed in guiding you toward the right path, doesn't mean 21 won't. It would be a shame to die, or remain without life, when recovery, or at least the beginning of it, is at hand. Where there's life there's hope.

[Guest ASchwartz]

Lalu22,

I agree with you, keep trying until you find the right therapist for you. Sometimes it is # 22 or 25, but the right therapist is there.

And, I agree, that where there is life there is always hope. I believe that totally, not only as a therapist but as a fellow human being.

Allan

[Pixeydust]

There are others of us out here that feel the same way that you do...everyday I find another reason to go on. Be it my kids, my boyfriend, my parents, my sisters, etc. Did you know that in order to love anyone else you have to love yourself first? You may not immediately acknowledge that you do indeed love yourself, but I really don't feel bad about myself, mostly what I feel bad about is the situation that I am in. I am divorced from my ex-husband (about 8 years now..thankfully) whom was abusive to me and used to make me have sex with him everynight. So now I am a divorced mother, with 2 kids, I just started getting paid child support which isn't near what he was ordered to pay when we got divorced because he is on disability and some certain people are to cheap to pay me what I derserve to be paid to raise two children. I got sick (I had low potassium and the flu at the same time) and I had to call in to work, so I lost my job, so now I am a single mother with 2 kids and no job, with not very much money coming in every month from the state to raise the two kids. It is really very depressing and if I didn't have money saved back I wouldn't even be able to talk to you now. I have thought several times, what is the point in going on? My neighbor behind me overdosed on medication (I swear to you) not very long ago, the mother came to my door and she said "Can you call 911? My son is dead!" She was in hysterics, she was crying she was upset. She had called her friend of family member (or a couple and then alot of people pulled up) and do you not think that it would effect your friends and your family if you were to end your life. Maybe it is the situations in your life that you need to change and not ending your life....think on that. (And thanks for posting this, this made me think as well, typing it out helped me.)

[Pixeydust]

In reply to an earlier statement of yours...you were talking about people that have Cancer...my boyfriend has cancer, he is depressed as well. He hangs in their though. You just have to go one day at a time and live your life and MAKE YOURSELF GET BACK OUT IN THE WORLD AGAIN AND SOCIALIZE!! Don't back up in the little hole that you've made for yourself and tell yourself that you are better off or that you are safer there....cause you aren't. You aren't and neither is your family. It is good to socialize, have people to talk to, have family to talk to, take your kids to waterparks, or just the park. We have a place here that is just a miniture golf course and it has go carts there as well, that would be fun for you and your kids to do, go to the zoo. Go out with your friends, get back into your hobbies again. I tell you something I loved to do before I got depressed and I need to get back into....find some pictures of you and your husband\kids\moms\dads\sisters\brothers\aunts\uncles\friends, etc and do scrapbook....it's a lot of fun and believe it or not when you get down you can always look at it and it will lift your spirits because you can always remember the good times. You can write subcaptions with them to remember what they were all about. I think this would be a great idea, anyways, get back into hobbies, get back into your workouts...sports are a great idea. Anyways best of luck to you.