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What's He To Do If It Is A Fetish?


Guest GingerSnap
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Guest GingerSnap

OK, spring is the deadline for my husband to get his act together - I have been waiting 27 years. I posted my issues with him under the "new" category sometime ago but this is fetish thing or not is a big problem even being under the same roof. The one time in the spring when he saw a psychologist, they decided it was preference and not a fetish - but he either has no interest in controlling it or can't which to me makes no difference. I have asked him to post on the forum and ask or talk about what he won't/can't with me but he will not. He is reading some more books and Bible. Also, the psychologist had warned him that if he left me (could I get that lucky?) that he might get into trouble if he did to someone else what he did to me so now he is afraid to leave which was his plan when I was angry with him for two whole weeks - enraged would be a better word. He prefers or can't live without, rubbing my back in the place of "normal" sex - he uses me as his masturbation tool/dry humping using his rubbing hands - no pleasant way to describe it. He got away with it when younger because he passed it off as foreplay and then couldn't perform (I gave him sympathy - dumb me). When I became really fed up and angry and wanted him to go for help, he could, a miracle, perform for a few weeks. Life was busy and time went by. I explained a million times that his touch made me feel dirty and ill when he did this and explained and demonstrated sensual touch v. groping. Seven years ago I put my finger on the problem. He was in denial until last spring when it became rough and there was no denying what was going on - he said he saw me "struggling to try to get away from him". He is still hinting and asking to rub my back which, of course, I am not allowing and I sleep in another room now. He seemed depressed that he can't get "it". I have told him that many desperate women would probably put up with this and not complain and that he needs to go and find one, yesterday. He has a highly addictive personality and his response to everything is "I don't know." He is consumed with self-love for whatever reason I will never understand. He has gotten much worse with aging. I show compassion to all but he is really testing the limits. What would you do? I know he will crash when I leave but it is my turn to have a life with my son with special needs without Gray Cloud spoiling everything. I have clued in a couple friends but they remain speechless. But, otherwise, my life is good and I look forward to the future.

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Guest GingerSnap

Well, my husband has joined the forum and posted and out of consideration for him as a human being, I will cool my comments but am I impressed, no. He has been in a cycle of making me feel secure only for his own personal gain for a long time - he does the minimum to get by. The saving grace for me is that we all answer to God in the end.

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Guest GingerSnap

I was so grateful that my husband's post was responded to but I had a lot of doubts that he would actually be highly motivated. I thought that he was working on a response last night but he wasn't and now he is out somewhere with my son which he normally doesn't do and that always causes me concern because my son functions at the pre-school level because of the Down syndrome. I keep thinking that everyone reads my posts and thinks that I should just let him "rub" me and forget about it - he thinks that too. The last time he held me down (he is 6'2" and I am 5'4") and dug so hard and deep into my back and I asked him three times to stop because he was hurting me but he was in some euphoric state and I struggled to get up but couldn't. His Uncle (now dead thank you God) used to get into our house and immediately touch my legs as often I was painting on high ceiling when my husband brought him in - my husband watched him touch me (probably got off too), said nothing and continued to bring him into the house even though I told him not to. His uncle kept trying to pet my dog and my dog hated him with a passion. Once he cornered her and petted her anyway and when he turned away she bite him pretty good so after that I just stayed next to my dog to solve the problem. I really miss that dog! That's the kind of devotion I need in a husband. I have seen my husband rub our dog in the mornings when she got on the bed in a similar fashion that he does me and I stopped the dog from getting on the bed. It is important with the fetish that he has that he sneaks it in so having someone that would openly allow it would be a turnoff. If you are in a marriage with any serious issues and have any way out, get out as it only gets worse with time. I was unfortunate in that I had no family and my son had so many issues that I could not have an outside job but now I have the chance to get away from this very soon. My husband is "of the devil"! After the attack, suddenly I could see him as never before - a stranger in the house and that is not a feeling that I can live with. I just had to post this and now I feel better, thank you for being here. ***I learned within the last week that my husband did hear me telling him to stop and that he was hurting me and when I asked why he didn't stop, he said "I don't know."

Edited by GingerSnap
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Gingersnap,

What a tough situation you're in. I was the one that responded to his post with concrete recommendations for the next step; however, he has not responded. This has to be heartbreaking!

I think you have some decisions to make at this point, not necessarily to leave him, but more so to put your marriage on the table (as this seems to be as damaging to you as is anything I can imagine) and how his behavior is eroding it at its' very foundation. I won't move forward with my thoughts and see if you want to explore this.

Please continue to be a part of the family and hopefully we can offer help, support and encouragement.

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Guest GingerSnap

Thank you David for replying to both myself and my husband. I'm not sure what putting the marriage on the table means. I was not his "love" but his "prey" - I think I learned that from reading something on this website. You can kind of block stuff out when you are younger and just keep busy but as you age and things slow down some, you realize that you need someone "special", like my best friend from high school said of her husband, "He is my best friend." - I was so happy for her - I got my worst enemy.:rolleyes: But I am involved with everything else around me in a good way. Thank you again.

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Gingersnap,

This is the nature of a fetish... what you describe is what is called "partialism" wherein you the partner are objectified and the fetish object (what he is focusing on) takes precedence over you, the real partner. How painful this must be, especially given how long you've had to live with it.

What I meant by putting your marriage on the table is simply that you have a conversation in which you state the obvious-- his behavior is hurtful and destructive. And in light of this, you might consider giving him some options (e.g., enter therapy, see a psychiatrist or endocrinoligist) with the stipulation that if he refuses and the behavior persists, you may need to take a break. The question is, will he be concerned by this or will it be inconsequential. Likewise, would this be something you would consider doing? If it's inconsequential to him, then you will need to make decisions regarding the marriage-- to remain or leave. Or, you may need to make decisions regarding how you will react the next time he forces himself on on you or "Uncle Bob" comes around and starts to touch you while your husband watches and possibly even enjoys it, as you suggested.

The real question is, and w/o pulling punches: What has kept you in the relationship this long? Has it been financial issues, the fact that you have a child/children together, you continue to have feelings for him, you can't see a way out... etc., etc.

From what you describe, it sounds like a fairly abusive relationship, is this accurate?

Gingersnap, again, I'm so sorry for what is happening and what has become of your life. Hopefully, you can find some answers or strength here.

Edited by David O
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Guest GingerSnap

Our children, my son from my first marriage who is 32 and our younger son with DS adopted as an infant now 23. As of January 2009, my son received funding for services from the State which changed everything. I thought when my husband realized that I could finally leave that he might actually wake up and for 3 or 4 months he did OK, said he no longer had the "urge", we made plans to move to an area, he would have a good job again and we would be setting up for retirement - then he assaulted me. All the plans out the window. This fetish has ruled our lives in this way for 27 1/2 years and he can't live without it and I can't live with it. Financially, I will be able to leave or give him the boot by spring 2010 which is his deadline and I know he will not meet the deadline because his efforts always last 2 weeks at a time. I am guessing that you know that if you lie to your psychologist that they can't help you - he just describes this as him wanting to rub my back and I don't like it and then I get mad at him. I want out and have an outline of where I am going with it. Too warped for me! EDIT: Uncle is dead. Since I am not sleeping with or sitting by my husband if he "takes it" again, he has been told that I will press charges and this, he knows I mean and then I will file for divorce the next day. I'm not a shrinking violet type.

Edited by GingerSnap
Adding What I Forgot
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Gingersnap,

I remember a school teacher when I was about 2-4 years old, who used to touch us and even would invite us to his house to touch and force himself on us. I was one of the kids to go to his home (I needed to be loved since I had been abandoned as a child) -- I didn't know any better. He laid on the ground (he didn't own a bed-- few homes did in our Latin American village) and tried to force me to sit on him with his clothes on. I knew enough then, once he did this, b/c of having seen the soldiers forcing themselves on everyone at gunpoint-- so I escaped his house and ran to mine. With respect to the soldiers, I quickly learned to run into "el monte", the desert, to hide behind the Saguaro and Mesquite trees to avoid all of them- the soldiers. From my vantage point I could hear the sounds of their presence in the village. What I knew, and so did many of the children who could get away, was that leaving was the only way to escape, and if we couldn't escape, we learned to vomit on ourselves so that our grossness would deter them from touching us-- but, our parents and families continued to suffer for decades. Being touched (or forced to do things) as they did, robbed us all of the joy of life and scarred us so deeply and in ways that even 9 years of excellent therapy couldn't erase. I know so well what this means and how it feels year after year.

What you've been thru, while different than my experience, still leaves deep wounds and scars tissue that can be scraped off at times-- my heart goes out to you. Gingersnap, I don't want to be difficult, or dismiss or diminish your experiences, but I do want to be very honest: when I read your post, the first thought I had was that something wasn't computing right!

** You've been married for >27 years,

**you can't trust him with your son who has DS and is now 23 (and who you adopted when he was an infant),

** the "fetish" has "ruled our lives for 27.5 years",

** he has "literally assaulted" you by forcing his sexual urges on you against your will,

** he has invited the Uncle over numerous times and watched his Uncle touch you against your will while he watched and seemed to enjoy it,

** you describe yourself throughout the marriage as not "his love... but his prey."

My confusion comes about from your statement that "I'm no shrinking violet," all the while every indicator is that what he has done he's done for 27 years! Do you see my confusion? 27 years is a lifetime of pain, disillusionment, unhappiness, and torment. I realize you state you now have made plans should he touch you again--- were these in place over several weeks, months, years or is this a new development?

Gingersnap, it seems that for many of us, we are not cheated by life (especially so if this is our 2nd "bad marriage" as you state in another post), unless we have allowed it or it is by our own hand.

I hope you can help me understand better, I want to be supportive and encourage you, and understanding will help me/us better be there for you.

Edited by David O
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Guest GingerSnap

David: I am sorry for what you went through. Although this doesn't compare, my parents took me to the optometrist when I was a kid and he used to rub his silky suited knee into my crotch when I was being examined, and an old man that owned a little mom and pop store used to grope me when I was very young - I did not know this was wrong, it felt wrong but I didn't have the knowledge to explain it to anyone I guess. The principal at when I was in kindergarten molested 3 - 6th graders and got one pregnant - my parents were really strict after that happened and I was never allowed at school activities. This is, from telling others, not that rare sadly. I have watched my kids like a hawk. Touch my kids, you can guess! So, in brief: my first husband almost killed me when I filed for divorce. I remember that he had me by the throat and I could not get any air and I thought I was going to die and I looked around the room and saw my sweet little boy for what I thought would be the last time. After the divorce, he destroyed a lot of my property and constantly did things to my car and injured my back - the spot my 2nd husband likes to rub to get off. Second husband, worked nights and I rarely saw him, thought he might be gay since he couldn't perform, didn't know the foreplay is what he needed (I was an innocent in kinky matters), his uncle died after a couple years and yes, that broke my heart that he let that happen, most of the information I actually have is only from April 2009 when the assault happened as before it was convert (I think that is the word, sneaky). When I told him 7 years ago that we didn't have to try to have sex anymore because I couldn't take the creepy rubbing, he got more angry than ever before in his life. We moved from this place, he went back on nights and things cooled. Now, back in this place....But, I can leave today if I sign my son with DS over to the State - that has been my option and I know a lot of people do this. In January 2009 I couldn't believe that funding for services came down for him and I started making plans only to discover there were no openings in a group home here. I was warned by several of the case management staff that if I placed him in a residential setting that with his functioning level, he would most definitely be molested by other clients and/or staff and that being with me is the best possible setting for him because I have done wonders with him (mental health/behavioral issues). My husband knows that I am in this position. I am able to now get funds for caring for my son in the home, this is not something one could live on but I am able to save most of it so that by spring I would be in a comfortable enough situation to relocate elsewhere in the State. My available work hours right now are between 9:30 am and 2:30 pm but I am not seeking work because I am trying to finish the work on the house so that it can go on the market and have a chance to sell in this terrible housing market. (Since all my good skills are outdated, I hope to either work in eldercare or with the developmentally disabled.) So, does this make me defective because I have stayed? I am not defective, not, not, not, not. I sent my husband here to get help so that he doesn't get into trouble with the law and I came to try to understand what the heck was wrong with him. I know that fetishes are accepted and giving your kids up to the State is accepted but not in my world, never in my world. I have a deep relationship with God that few understand but that's OK. Thank you and I am sorry for what you went through, I know that my son in Afghanistan has seen such terrible things and it has been heartbreaking - he wanted to know if we could adopt some of the kids but they are not allowed out of the country - this was on his first tour there. He also got attached to a dog that was hard for him to leave the first time - you guessed it, mom is proud of him and his compassion. I got to mow the yard before it rains.

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Guest ASchwartz

Hi David and Gingersnap,

David, first, I must say that here in this forum you made use of the very thing I was mentioning in the other forum: revealing things about yourself in order to be helpful. That was terrific.:)

Clearly, the two of you have been through somewhat similar dreadful experiences as children that had to affect you as adults because it affects anyone during their childhood. As children, we become confused and believe that abuse equals love and affection. Then, we find partners when we are adult who will fulfill the unhappy roles we learned: "They abuse and we suffer." That is why we end up either staying too long or having to marry more than one time.

This has nothing to do with being "weak" or incapable. This happens to the strongest people. However, we are able to learn and get it right.

Allan

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Guest GingerSnap

I am sorry David O. that I may have seemed to overreact to your post to my husband. That you suggested that he find some things to break the tension, well, that is what he normally does in order to start his "routine" related to what I believe is his sexual addiction related to the fetish or part of it, something. Right now, I am trying to keep him in a crisis mode and I know that sounds bad but that is the only way to keep him from trying to work his "routine" again. It took some reading, well, a lot of reading on the internet in order to see what was going on and then you think "Why on earth couldn't I see that." He is going to see the EAP probably this week and is looking for a way to just control it until he can leave the house as he has said that isn't it obvious when asked if he were choosing the family or the fetish. Also, for anyone else reading this he is passive-aggressive and a narcissist which he freely admits to like I admit my passion for cane sugar and butter (but I have limits on this and don't let them consume me). Keep in mind that until his meltdown last April, I really didn't know him, not at all. He said that he wishes that I would never found out and that he really thought he was going to pull it off for the longer term. He said that he promised to try to get help and change but didn't mean it because he thought it wouldn't be necessary because he thought that I would never leave him. Also, he admits to most of the time having no intention of doing the things he promised. My thoughts on the back fetish is that previously he had spoke about how he remembers his mother rubbing his back when he was lying on the bed when he was little. His mother watched TV all the time with him and the best I could tell, she kept him away from his father as her little treasure. I have seen this with his sister and her children and it looks very strange when you see it as we had a special picnic for her and relatives she was supposed to really care about when she visited from a distance state and all of us were at tables visiting, my husband's cousin had our little one on his shoulders and took off for a walk along the lake and his sister (7 years younger than my husband) put a blanket probably 30 feet from the rest of us and sat with her little girl and would not mingle with anyone else and from what I understood this was "normal" in her world. So, maybe this will all bring some insight to someone, make something click. One last creepy thing would be that I often connected clothing or hairstyle that turned my husband on to something in a picture of his mother and I know what that and the back rubbing she did....Well, anyway, I don't think that there is really anymore to say on this subject. I would, however, answer really any question that someone might have if it would be helpful to them. Thanks for listening and responding and again, sorry David O. but I was working a plan.

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Gingersnap,

No apology is necessary, but i do appreciate the gesture. As I was reading this and your previous posts, and his, it just struck me. I imagined you as an "insect (sorry for the metaphor) trapped in the web of a large and hairy wolf spider-- using what limited emotional energy, effort and time you have to untangling yourself from the sticky and powerful threads. There is no talk of you in here... only of him, his ability to muscle you, his fetish, his inability to follow through and keep promises, his lying, his narcissism, his passive aggressiveness, his.......................

Where are you, Gingersnap, in this picture? I hear your pain, your loneliness, your disillusionment, your anxiety, anger and hostility, and your lost life of 27.5 years? This has left you wounded and scarred, which comes thru clearly and loudly, and what I'm missing is where you'll end up once this is over. What will you do? How will you heal? How will you bring normalcy and happiness into your life?

If you began to imagine your next stage in life-- one where you're free and able to trust and give again-- what would that look like and how would you get there?

Please keep writing back. By the way, I'm glad you stayed. I've read many of your answers and can see how your wisdom, compassion and understanding is needed by others, including me.

David

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Guest GingerSnap

David: I dealt with a highly dysfunctional mother for years growing up so I have a lot of experience in the area. I was greatly loved by my father and grandparents and grew up with old time religion - the one with hell and emphasize in doing the right thing in the first place, being unselfish and serving God. I am unhappy with this situation with my husband but not unhappy in general. I enjoy life now perhaps because I shut off to a lot of what he brings into my life probably from the experience learned as a child. I believe that selfishness is the greatest sin and pure evil and that you reap what you sow. Healing? Not really, God sends "tests" to us and the more devoted you are to him, the more you will be tested. I have great peace in knowing that people reap what they sow and being human have great peace that my husband will burn in hell, sorry, just my belief. My new life will be busy as I work outside/inside the home and deal with a very difficult adult with DS who is just a hair less stubborn than me. I am considering adopting another child with special needs if my situation will allow as that was a long term goal. I would never, ever consider having a "partner" again and I know that people think that I just say that now but trust me, as God as my witness, that part of my life is over, I just want some peace and to have time for myself - and my son until he finds some suitable living situation or not. There is no way that I can explain my faith in God but I know that those with God in their heart will understand. I'm still standing but God is holding me up. I know I'm a little out there but I'm good with who I am. If I could just give what I have in my heart to others.....

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Guest GingerSnap

My husband saw the EAP, a social worker. EAP would not pay for a personality test so they didn't do one. I heard a tape of the entire session. My husband told him about the back rubbing and it was decided that it is obsessive-compulsive because my husband when asked if it were sexual release said he didn't think so. I was there during this and an adult woman knows when a man has sexual release. Also, he wants my husband to go to the VA and get the personality test and Paxil to treat the anxiety that he feels from having truly f'd up our family life. I had read and I probably said it before that most people with a sexual fetish rarely seek treatment and I know that many couples are good with this and agree that whatever happens between consenting adults is fine but in this case, and the intensity increasing and his continued lying about it, well, I told him to pick up the pace of getting a job and being gone since I wouldn't be able to move out until Spring. The way he has protected this fetish is so perplexing to me. I guess I knew the marriage was truly over when one night I was walking through the dark house and I was afraid that I might bump into him and maybe set something off in him...and, now with the help of an EAP nothing will be changing and this really isn't a big deal, silly, silly me, NOT! ***Also, my husband said that he used to have foreplay and it didn't lead to sex and he was able to roll over and go to sleep and I wasn't happy with that. And then my husband said, "We didn't have sex that much." EAP guy "Why was that because of you or your wife?" and my husband said "Well I would liked to have it more often." - My question to my husband would be "Then why was your wife in her sexy nightgown lying next to you crying." - I'm really OK but want others who might ever deal with this to see it from the other side, I searched so hard on the internet to find anyone that had insight on this and could not find a single place that it was really discussed as in "you are not the only one in the world dealing with this".

Edited by GingerSnap
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Guest GingerSnap

An update: I had two other things to mention about the social worker that my husband met with, see, the two of them forgot not just me because they talked about my older son (a child from my first marriage) and my husband said that he didn't really treat him that well (surprise) and the social worker suggested that he tell him that he was sorry even though this social worker knows that my son is in Afghanistan. Through all these problems, I have went out of my way to make sure that nothing, not the slightest bite of news of any kind, would distract my son and possibly cost him his life since he is in a very dangerous position. My husband agreed to contact my son but I have spoke with him....well, anyway we got that straightened out I hope. I am sorry but I also feel that this social worker seems to think that what my husband is doing to me is just an entitlement that he has earned as a husband and that I just deserve it. I thought it was disrespectful of the social worker to suggest that my husband spend time each evening talking with me and making me think that he was interested in me to practice his social skills as in, well, since you are already using her anyway, this little addition would be OK! I believe both my husband and the social worker do not understand boundaries. ***I know you'll think this was wrong but I called and talked with someone regarding the social worker in regard to his telling my husband to email him in Afghanistan and say he was sorry for the way he treated him and suggested that he get some training about combat and maybe visit a major Fort a few hours north of us (where I used to work), my husband knew I was going to do it and said "go for it". The lady asked if my husband would be confronting the guy about it and I said probably not. My husband said he just can't say anything - I told him, "I used to be like you and I got tired of being taken advantage of and once I stepped up, the power was such a trip that I would never let it go and you want to fill powerful and that is how it happens - just make sure your facts are straight, ducks in a row before you confront." This just gets so old, trying to get help like this as I went through it for years with my younger son - a constant battle until you just give up and realize the only one you can really depend on is you - that is why "you" got to be together.

Edited by GingerSnap
My rant about the social worker making things worse
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  • 4 months later...
Guest GingerSnap

I wanted to update anyone that wondered how this is turning out. My husband has been working through the lessons at Recovery Nation online. His "rubbing" non-sexual body parts - the why - has come out. From the ages of 14 to 17, his mother had him rub Ben Gay on her back, her top off and front covered. He found sexual gratification when he did this. It appears his relationship with her was "more" than most have. She died when he was 17 years old. She told him to never have sex when he was 13 years old. They spent unreal amounts of time together. He believes that he did come to look forward to these "moments" and he recreated these in our relationship. Because of this "attachment" to his mother, he forced this odd fetish to the breaking point and was unable to ever really bond with anyone in his adult family because of his peculiar level of loyalty to his mother. He wanted to leave the good job to work at a factory where many people use Ben Gay and things with a related odor which got him all turned on and caused him to just sort of go crazy for "it". So, with this strong relationship with his mother.......Yeah, stunned and beyond. I hope this sad tale can help someone, someday not end up in this kind of situation. The "ick" factor:eek: Cathy ***Happy New Year To All***

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  • 2 months later...

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