Am I really so immature?

[Catmom]

Hi guys-

I hope I can get some feedback on this from the good people on this board. A while back I posted about my strong feelings of attachment ("transference") for my therapist I have been seeing for 3 1/2 years for compulsive gambling. He is saying that it is time for me to terminate & this has been very emoitionally pianful for me.

Anyway, the reason I am posting today is that I saw him yesterday and he commented that my strong feelings for him are "adolescent" & basically immature. He did not say this harshly but that was the gist of what he meant. I told him that I was hurt by this at the time.

Is this true? Do I as a 48 year old woman have the emotional maturity (in this area) of an adolescent? Admittedly, any person who is an addict is immature, but this is hard to accept.

Needless to say, I am sorry I ever said anything about this to him. He still doesn't offer me any help in getting through this. Let me assure everyone reading this that all I EVER said to him was that I have a "transference" for him. I haven't confessed undying love, etc and I have said that I totally understand that I am a client, nothing more.

The more I write, the more upset I am getting, so I will stop now.

Thanks for reading this.

Catmom

[SuziQ]

Hi Catmom,

Sorry you having such a rough time. I do not know if you are immature or not, but it sounds from this post and others that your T has some issues of his own relating to how he relates to his clients. As this therapist became aware of your attachment to him---and I am sure he was aware---he needed to steer you toward outside support for yourself---going places with friends, exploring why you don't date--setting up outside emotional support so that he was not so important. I remember one therapist telling me at the beginning that he would have no emotional attachment or sexual attachment during the course of therapy. I simply told him--Great, because I don't pay for those things and I pay you. Therapists are just people who have education in that area. You may have made him feel like a hero and he needed that and failed to discourage you as time went by. Or maybe you did not want to be discouraged and ignored what you knew and what he said.

It sounds like it is time to get out into the social world and get a "for real" relationship. You sound very bright and you DO know the answers. It is probably time for YOU to end this therapy and I think you know it. You will be fine !!! It is great for someone to listen to our deepest concerns week after week, but you need to move on out into the world. Get on out there and find someone--or lots of people who are available more than just during a paid for session once a week (or more). He is not available. He is your therapist. It is a one sided relationship in which he does most of the giving and you get the benefit of that. That is how it is supposed to be and he is not going past that. I am sorry he is not comfortable discussing it with you, but that is just how it is.

I do not mean to sound unsympathetic, but you deserve more in your life than just therapy. You deserve a full, exciting life and time is moving on. Don't know if you've tried it, but you might try a gambler's anonymous meeting to begin to have a social life. Lots of luck and love! I am waiting to hear about the great man you meet that is available.

[Ms. Nobody]

Hi Catmom,

I just wanted to say that I understand where you’re coming from. I feel that it’s completely understandable for a person to get attached to someone who’s been there for them, and helped them out in times of trouble. I in no way think you are being immature in this situation at all, and I believe it would be a normal reaction to leaving someone that you’ve been seeing for 3 ½ years.

I’m someone who, once I get to know someone, and become friends, I get very attached. Sometimes to the point where if I can’t see the person, I get strong emotions of sadness, and I even get depressed at times.

So, I don’t think it’s fair to say your feelings are immature, it’s just how you’re feeling knowing that you probably wont see this person again. Would doctors call Postpartum Depression immature? I realize it’s not the same thing but I believe neither has anything to do with being immature, it’s just how this change makes you feel. Ya know?

That's my opinion anyway.

Take care.

[Furrfam]

Let's get real, we have all been dealt a really bad hand. We (you & I) cannot keeping pushing the blame on another. You and I both know that is not. I always knew this. I was in control for approx. 40 yrs. of my life, then I was put on Celexa..........40gm per day. I lost my husband, my job as well as my self respect. I am trying to come back, not an easy task after so many years being drug induced when it was not necessary. I am here looking for someone that has been there and done that.............

[shattered hope]

I just posted what may not be too much help for you ,other than the fact that 15 years of major medication issues, complications, and possible overmedication, I honestly feel that they have done far more harm than good. I feel that in a big way and we are hurting together.

[Catmom]

Thanks SuziQ & Miss Nobody for your replies. I really appreciate your input. You have a good point, Suzi, when you say that I deserve more than what is now about 45 minutes every other week. (My therapist's caseload is so large that he only sees a limited group of clients every week).

On the other hand, no lover I could ever find would understand the addictive thought process the way my therapist does. No matter what his shortcomings, he is extremely gifted in this area. Hopefully, by this time I have learned enough about how my addiction tries to seduce me back into self-destruction to stay on the right path.

I do have outside support but have wanted to find a primary relationship for quite awhile. This is the piece that my therapist cannot help me with and I have to accept that.

I think it was something of a put down to label my feelings as immature. If any of the mental health professionals at this site are reading this, can you tell me if transference as I have described it is "adolescent?"

Thanks again to all who responded!

Catmom

[SuziQ]

Hi Catmom,

Do you have cats? I only have 12---please do not say I am eccentic--I have just rescued them in a rural area and they are all fixed. They are my babies and I wish there were less, but the shelters put them to sleep. I didn't even own a cat until I was in my 60's. I adopted a whole litter last year and that is how the number grew.

Of course no lover may have the knowledge about gambling, but that is not the role of a lover. If you go to Gamblers Anonymous, you may find some just plain people who understand and have a lot of knowledge. I don't understand--I don't gamble. I had other addictions.

He may not be saying it right by saying you are immature, but what you have with him is not a full mature relationship with all the give and take that such a relationship involves. What he may be saying is that you have idealized him as we do when we are young and idealize people and also may be old and idealize people. You have no idea how he is as a man in life. He may pass gas at the dinner table. (a joke).

Yes, it will be painful to stop and lose this support, but a part of therapy is moving on into your own life. Therapists are paid to listen and make you the most important person for that session. I've dated a few (not ones I had as therapists) and they are just human beings. I have a college sweetheart who became a psychiatrist and we are friends now in our twilight years and he is no piece of cake to be around. You might try cutting your sessions to once a month for a while and see how it goes.

What I am saying is that you appear somewhat unrealistic about this situation, but which of us is not unrealistic at times? It is difficult saying good by to someone who has been so supportive and knows all our feelings. I dearly love a therapist I had for several years---but he was gay---so I had no trouble with part of the separation, but I still miss him now and then. I am sure he is gone by now as it was 40 yrs ago.

Once again, I wish you love, peace and joy.

SuziQ

[jayteae]

I have just read your comments regarding your therapist's statements.

Firstly, I think to make such comments were completely inappropriate, they lacked sensitivity. Therapists in Australia have an ethical code, which includes not to cause harm to clients, I believe that such comments break this code.

Secondly, if I had of been in your situation I also would have been hurt by such comments.

Thirdly, in any situation when receiving counselling, it is quite natural to develop feelings of attachment for a therapist. These same type of feelings can also happen when in the care of nurses or doctors. In a situation with therapists, it is possible to believe that they are the only person who truly understands you. This means that the client is vulnerable. What is important is to try and understand why you have these feelings.

It is possible that your therapist may themselves be immature and may not be able to deal with you or other clients having strong feelings of attachment towards him.

As a therapist I would have given you an explanation (three above) rather than dismissed your feelings as being "adolescent" and basically immature.

Having done so, I would have then helped you work through your feelings of attachment, so your termination would have been as painless as possible.

jayteae.

[PsychoticSaint]

Hi Catmom;

I think I'd feel the same way if a therapist said anything like that to me, and although I might not know all the details I tend to agree with jayteae that this therapist's comments were inappropriate and insensitive. I don't understand what this therapist expects to accomplish by saying such a thing. It seems to me that it was the therapist in this situation that was immature, not you.

I also think that something Susie Q mentions is important to remember; regardless of how gifted any therapist might be they are human, and so they come with all the faults and frailties that comes with the condition; he might be an extremely gifted therapist but I don't know if I'd judge him as highly in the area of 'people skills' or what they call 'soft skills' in my field. To even imply that your feelings were 'adolescent' seems to me to be an unkind way to express his thoughts on the matter.

In my opinion I would say that the feelings you express were very human. I also think they are very common. What's more is I think that you were being very honest, and by being so brave and by having the courage to express your feelings with such honesty you were being very mature. I wouldn't describe your feelings or anything about the way they were expressed as 'adolescent' or 'immature'.

I think that were I in a similar situation that his behavior would make a difficult transition even more difficult; his comments seem so uncalled for to me; I really empathize with the situation you're in. You sound like a strong and intelligent person and I'm sure you'll grow from the experience, but I'm sorry to hear that this therapist would choose to end your sessions with him in such a way. I would say that finding another therapist is obviously the best thing you can do and I wish you all the luck in the world with your transistion and in everything you do! It's the toughest thing in the world for me to learn to not take so many things 'personally' and just hearing about this happening to you upsets me a bit, I think it would be nearly impossible not to take such comments personally. Thanks for sharing your struggle along with your strength, I'm inspired by your posts and again I wish you all the best!

Edited June 28, 2008 by PsychoticSaint

[Catmom]

Thanks jayteae & PsychoticSaint for your very supportive words. When no one had posted to this thread for over a week and a half, I figured it had "fallen off the radar screen" and would get no more replies.

I like PsychoticSaint's comment about learning not to take things personally. That has been a huge & helpful lesson for me and helps me keep things in perspective. It's not always all about me, even in therapy!

Also, I agree that a lot of my therapist's attitude has to do with his discomfort with strong feelings in general. He can calmly watch while clients in our therapy group freak out for whatever reason, but he really does not want to be touched emotionally by me (or any other client) in a one on one situation. I don't need to take this personally. This is just the way he is and I need to accept that.

Thanks again for your supportive words. I especially like it that PsychoticSaint was even upset for me!

P.S. Do any of the moderators have anything to contribute? I asked before & got no response but the last two replies gave me hope that perhaps Mark or Allan coudl give me some input as well.

Edited June 30, 2008 by Catmom

[Mark]

Catmom

Not sure what I can contribute here, as I think that the other members of this community have done a great job supporting you here.

Your basic worry is that your therapist suggested that you were adolescent and immature towards him in terms of developing a transference towards him and (I think) in terms of not being ready to terminate after 3 1/2 years of therapy. Some people have suggested that this was rather hurtful of the therapist and inappropriate for him to say. It may have been inappropriate for him to say, and I'm sure it was hurtful, but could there be any truth therein? I don't know the situation at all, can only see it through your comments, and don't have an opinion. I'm just assuming that if your therapist knows you well and isn't essentially an ass that maybe his comment has a grain of truth to it.

You could react several ways to that being the case. You could deny it and look for people to tell you what an inappropriate person he was for saying it. This would be comforting, but not terribly useful in the long run. You could try to pull some value out of that statement too, or alternatively. what is therapy for if not to be a mirror. And sometimes we don't want to look into the mirror.

If this is a mirror image you don't want to see, why is that? is it so terrible to possibly have an adolescent crush on a therapist? What sorts of thoughts come to mind when you think about being a person who sometimes acts in an immature way.

I look around me, at other people and myself, and find that I see lots of adolescent behavior being expressed from time to time as well as a fair amount of adult behavior. It seems to me that many if not most people are pretty adolescent when it comes to approaching difficult parts of their lives. So I don't necessary see such a comment as an insult, the way you seem to see it, and maybe more like possibly useful feedback.

And who can tell you such a thing if not a therapist? A therapist isn't your friend (but neither should one be cruel). he or she is a good person to give you that sort of feedback (at least in comparison to a friend), becuase you can always hire another therapist, but you can't hire friends.

If it is the case that you have been acting immaturely towards this man in some fashion, would you rather know about it, or not ? Becuase he isn't important in the scheme of things except to be a tool for you to improve your life. If you are acting immaturely towards other men and towards the therapist, that could help you make corrections so that you would be less likely to mess up the really important relationships such as that with a partner which you say you miss very much and would like to have again.

Transferences are backwards looking things. they aren't necessarily adolescent, but they do tend towards that early life experience sort of thing, becuase we are essentially seeking to impose an early life pattern of relating onto a present life pattern when we enact them.

So, I've reached the rambling stage here, I think, and will stop now, but please consider this line of thought. It's not about your comfort always (therapy). An artist therapist will find a way to give you feedback that doesn't hurt too much or at all, and maybe this guy isn't an artist, but maybe he has given you some feedback that is useful nevertheless ???

If that is the case, what do you think it means and what might you do next?

Mark

[Catmom]

Mark-

Thanks for your reply. I had to smile at your saying that if my therapist "isn't essentially an ass," his comments may have merit. Of course they do! And of course he is not!

In fact, I have benefited most from his most painful observations over these last few years. And who else better to tell me when I am off base than a therapist who knows me well?

The thing that I found least helpful about the "adolescent" comment is that there is really no where for me to go with that information. He is saying my feelings are immature because I do not know the entirety of him as a person and only know what he has chosen to present to me for a very limited amount of time every other week.

He was not saying that I have ever acted inappropriately towards him. What am I supposed to do about my feelings? How do I "grow up?"

I can partially answer my own question in that I am less wrapped up in the transference the more I expand my own unique life and relationships.

It is also true that my revelation of the "transference" caused him some emotional discomfort and I have found that if I want my remaining sessions not to be really tense, I had better drop it.

As I have said before, there is not a lot to be gained by thinking he can "fix my feelings" since that is not his forte and really, it is ultimately my job to handle my own emotions, even though they may be very painful.

I am getting better at not being so self critical, but being called adolescent really tripped my negative self talk into gear. That is certainly part of the take away message here. There is no end to the twist and turns my inner critic can take & it makes me miserable when it kicks in.

Thanks again for responding. I really appreciate it.

Catmom

[Guest ASchwartz]

Hi Catmom,

I agree with Dr. Dombeck that your therapist might not be so artistic in some aspects of the work he does but he can still be an excellent therapist and the idea for you is to use what he has said about the "transference."

So, what did your therapist really mean when he told you that your feelings for him are immature? Of course, without knowing him I can only venture to guess but I suspect this will be a fairly good guess:

As Mark Dombeck corrrectly points out, our transference feelings are immature in that they date back to an early time in our lives.

OK, so what do we do with this or what does it mean?

That transference feelings are immature usually means that we are wanting, wishing for and demanding something we are not allowed to have. Example: If I am the first born child and my parents have given birth to a new child, I may resent all the attention that the new baby now gets and is taken away from me. I start to fret and fuss. I start to whine and cry easily, maybe I even start to wet the bed again. Why? Because I want to be king and I do not want to surrender the "throne" to some new child. I want All the attention on me.

Listen, as a therapist, now retired, but with a trillion years of experience, I can tell you that female patients of mine, in their transference to me, expressed resentment that I had other female patients. They wanted to be my "only child" and my only patient and my "only person." A few even expressed disappointment that I had a life outside of seeing them.

So, what did we do with this information? We talked about the feeling of "never getting enough" things such as: attention, love, preference and instead, of always feeling "very deprived." When we went down these avenues, we talked about how this was how they felt everywhere and in everyway in their lives. Some of these were people on anti depressant medication but still felt deprived and we were able to see the root of their depression being not in the brain but "In their way of thinking about their lives."

I hope you understand what I am saying because it is difficult to grasp when it is so close to your own life.

What we would start to focus on was more about the "things I do have and love," rather than the things I do not." Some women would even say there can never be anyone as "grand, handsome and wonderful as me." News flash: I'm not so great, not really, I am just a person, like all the rest. By the way most, maybe not all, but most, learned, recovered and got on with their lives in happy and successful ways.

So, Catmom, what do you think? Please respond.

Allan:)

[Mark]

The thing that I found least helpful about the "adolescent" comment is that there is really no where for me to go with that information.

This is one of my favorite themes that people come up against in therapy. And it's very difficult to understand what to do when you are "immature" and you want to "grow up". In order to make sense out of what it means to "grow up" you need a theory that will help you understand what that means. the one I like the best was created by a fellow named Robert Kegan, who is a developmental psychologist at Harvard last time I looked. His ideas are not easy reading, but I've done a few essays on them trying to unpack them in simple language.

The basic idea is that people are initially embedded inside a limited perspective and cannot appreciate anything other than themselves. This is to say that they are very subjective about the world and themselves - they see things only from their own perspective and are so enmeshed in that perspective that they don't even appreciate that there could be anything larger than that perspective.

As they grow and mature and go through different crises, people's perspectives expand and grow larger - to include the idea that other people are similar in nature to yourself and in many ways just as important (babies don't have this important concept down and neither do young children). In later stages (according to Kegan), people begin to question all manner of things they've taken for granted such as the value systems that they grew up with - this is becuase as their perspective grows larger and includes more data from different people, they realize that there are more than one way of valuing things.

From a practical point of view, you might think of yourself as being embedded in this transference recently - you're in that hard crush of love and when you're in that, you think that you simply cannot live without the beloved and will be in pain forever, etc. we've all been there if we're adults. This is a very subjective, limited point of view, and it is in many ways "adolescent" because it is similar to the way that adolescents will form such crushes. Older people are less likely to form such crushes because they've been through them and realize how they tend to end and that they are typically based on an idealized version of the person which isn't sustainable.

So - if you want to "grow up" with regard to your transference, the thing to do would be to really start thinking broadly about the nature of crushes and how they tend to end, and what you don't know but think you do know about the object of your affection. The object would be to bootstrap yourself into a broader, more objective, less embedded perspective about that relationship, to put it in to an overall perspective better. that is really hard to do when you're in the crush, but it can be creeped towards I think.

Mark

[SuziQ]

Hi Catmom,

Mark and Allen both had good things to say. I wonder if this could be, in some way, related to your gambling problem. Gamblers---at least in my view---spend hours, money, hopes and dreams investing in a situation with odds that are against winning. Your therapist appears more than a long shot---he is an impossible dream. And, frankly, I don't know what you would do if he did respond to you in like manner. If he were your lover, he would be spending many hours listening to and being supportive of other women. Just a thought--may not be relevant.

About your "self talk" We all have it and it often is negative. You can just tell it to shut up. I have learned to do that and it is quite a relief.

Don't know if this helps--but good luck. It's hell trying to be adult in all situations. I don't know anyone who is--and they probably would be very boring anyway.

SuziQ

[Catmom]

I have been away to a family reunion and couldn't respond until now, but as always, I really appreciate that Allan, Mark, and Suzi Q took the time to respond to my post.

When I first began seeing my therapist, I was aware of being jealous of his other clients and not wanting him to spend time with them. It is a relief to realize that this unrealistic attitude has diminished considerably over time. Allan's idea of appreciating what I do have and not dwelling on what I lack has been very helpful to me. This is what I was getting at when I said that “I am less wrapped up in the transference the more I expand my own unique life and relationships.”

For most of my life, I was depressed to one degree or another and have been on many different antidepressants. It was quite a pleasant surprise to find that as I progressed in my recovery from compulsive gambling, I was no longer depressed. I used to think that I was destined to keep trying drug after drug for depression, vainly seeking relief. Imagine my surprise when I found out that I could be relatively happy without any sort of drugs whatever (except for coffee, that is).

On the other hand, as Allan discusses, I do experience a fair amount of loneliness and do feel deprived of relationships at times. That was a major goal of my trip to my family reunion—to attempt to build and rebuild relationships I cut off when I was in my addiction(s). So I am trying to enjoy the relationships I can have and not to dwell on my unavailable therapist. The feeling of general deprivation throughout my life will be a topic for discussion the next time I see him.

With regard to Mark's comments, I have often privately thought that if I knew more about my therapist's personal flaws, I would get over idealizing him more quickly. Obviously, I can't expect him to confess all his private faults to me so I will have to take it on faith that he's “not so great, not really,” as Allan would say.

One thing I do need to say here is that my attachment feelings are not nearly as strong as they used to be and I believe I have done some of the work of letting go already. It is still painful but is not excruciating as it once was. Like most of Allan's clients, I expect to learn, recover and get on with my life in a satisfying way. Thanks again for all your comments.

Catmom

P.S. In reference to Suzi Q's post, if my therapist were ever to respond to me other than as a professional with a client, I would run like hell. I hope my posts have made it obvious that I am not so delusional as to think an inappropriate relationship with my therapist is okay, regardless of my emotions. CM

Edited July 9, 2008 by Catmom

[SuziQ]

Hi Catmom,

I did not mean that you would respond to an inappropriate relationship--I never even had the thought that you would. That is why I asked the question. It was more like exploring ---in your mind---where you would really like it to go, IF it were appropriate. It is very safe as it is because there is no possibility of going farther. And I am not talking about sex. What would day to day conversations be like? What movies (or no movies) would you share? Would you have to change your manner of dress? What would you need to alter or keep the same to make your relationship comfortable ? And on and on. From a distance, it looks great. But up close and personal--is it something you would really want? Looking from that perspective, you might find that it is a lot easier to let go of the feelings you have.

I suspect---and may be wrong---that very personal relationships may be difficult for you. They are for me. I really like the distance that allows me personal safety. Since I am old, not in a relationship or desiring one, I can look back and see how really difficult it was for me to be in very personal relationships. I guess that is why my cats are such ideal pets for me. I think your idea of exploring your feelings of deprivation is an excellent idea for some upcoming sessions.

I wish you love and joy. SuziQ

[Catmom]

Hi Suzi Q-

I understand what you mean about relationships being difficult, but I do want to challenge myself to build more close relationships with people.

By the way, I have two cats and one dog that I love dearly but they are not complete substitutes for human beings, IMO.

Catmom

[SuziQ]

Hi Catmom,

I have been browsing the posts and run across some of the comments you've made to others. You certainly sound as if you would be a wonderful and understanding friend--or lover. If you are anything like how you write here, you will have no problem finding that man who will answer your dreams. He will be lucky !!

Wishing you love and joy, Suziq

[SuziQ]

Hi Catmom,

Just read your answer to Dr. Swartz post and understand a little better why you so like your therapist. You are very bright and capable and probably find few men who are your equal. And many who are can become competitive, rather than supportive. I once dated someone who told me that he didn't want to continue because I did not need him---and I didn't. You will find someone who appreciates all the wonderful things you are as a woman and not look at your accomplishments as a barrier to an equal relationship.

Love and joy, suziQ

[Catmom]

Thanks, Suzi Q, for your kind words. I am wondering if I am grasping what Allan and Mark are getting at in their posts. At this point, I would really like to be over this "transference" completely. I can see progress, though.

Catmom

[SuziQ]

Hi Catmom,

I read all your posts about this issue--in last post and this one. I will say what I feel about all this. First, I'd like to say I don't want to talk about it as a clinical issue. You've had a long very successful relationhip with this man. He has helped you immeasureably. You've lost both parents and a brother. You are almost 50 and there is no one(man) in your life. You find him attractive, caring, equally intelligent, and you can count on seeing him regularly. You've had some other fantasies about him, which I don't find so unusual. You know they are fantasies and are not really "all mixed up" about that. And you are feeling grief about the possibility of leaving therapy. It is evident that this man cares about your welfare--or your therapy would not have been successful. Maybe the real issue is "Who will I turn to now, if he is gone?" And that is a very important issue--far more important than the fantasy. I think that you have built a friendship with this man. And friends are very hard to find. You are comfortable strolling around emotionally naked in front of him. And I'm sure that when you fantasize not seeing him again, it is very painful. With most friends, even when they move away, one can pick up the phone and call or email. In this rather strange setting called therapy, it is not the way it ends. Your age, your family situation, your position at work, your intelligence all set you up to feel alone. Maybe you and your T can talk about how it feels to be alone---with no one to discuss things with. Some days I go nearly bonkers trying to make decisions without someone to bounce ideas off of. You might talk about "mid-life crisis" and how that is affecting you. You might just let go of some fantasies and talk about needing a good friend--even if it is in a therapeutic setting. I really miss not having a therapist--I've been in therapy off and on for years. And when I was a counselor, we had sessions several times a week where we bounced ideas off each other. And they were my equals. One time when we talked about our clients sexual problems, it somehow got off track to sexual feelings between staff. My very young good looking boss said if he had sex with anyone there it would be me--I was shocked !! But we went on to discuss how these feelings are normal in settings where feelings can be openly discussed. We all had become close. I still correspond with one girl there--and it has been many years.

Maybe it is not in your best interests to stop therapy at this time. Maybe you need to turn your attention to developing a close friendship to replace what you have with him before you leave. Probably a part of your attraction to him has been that he can sustain a long term relationship. In today's world, that is not the norm. The replacing relationship may not have to be a romantic one--although I grant that a romantic one makes a great fantasy.

I don't know if this helps at all, but I am hopeful that it might.

Wishing you love and joy, SuziQ

[Mark]

Damn Suzi - that was a beautiful post! Cat - I don't have anything to add to what Suzi wrote, but only to say that I think she's on the right track. Sometimes when you are angry, there is fear behind that anger. and Suzi is pointing you towards a place to look at what is motivating the anger, namely what appears to be a confrontation with profound loneliness.

[Catmom]

Hi Mark-

I know I am risking embarrassing myself with my emotional unawareness but I am totally missing where my being angry comes in to play here. I am mostly working through the grief of letting go of this relationship, not because I want to, but because my therapist says it is time.

I have spoken of my profound loneliness with my therapist. Indeed, the subject of our most recent sessions has been my efforts to slowly build significant relationships with family and friends from whom I have been alienated for years.

However, I don't believe my therapist thinks that just becvause I am profoundly lonely that that is a reason to continue therapy. My relationship with him should not be a substitute for "real" relationships. He has always discouraged excessive dependency in me and all his other clients.

Ideally, I would have enough close emotional connections with others prior to my termination so that loneliness would not be an issue. On the other hand, is loneliness just about a lack of nourishing contact? I believe that often my loneliness is about desiring outside affirmation of my worth and loveability, when really that sense of worth is something that can only come from myself.

A big part of the CBT that my therapist does is about talking back to the "Critic," the inner voice that endlessly finds fault. My Critic can be extremely vicious and is THE most difficult thing to overcome for me. Quitting pathological gambling and prescription drug abuse was easy compared to overcoming my Critic.

(Oops--I just realized what Mark is talking about regarding my anger--that was what I started this thread with, i.e. being angry that my therapist said I was "adolescent" in my feelings toward him.) I guess I have gotten past that one. He he.

Catmom

Edited July 15, 2008 by Catmom

[SuziQ]

Hi Catmom.

Thanks Mark. And, my dear Catmom, it is hell when your inner critic just won't shut up. And I do not believe that we, all alone, can mend the need for approval. It helps when others affirm that we are valuable to them. I do a great many things for many people just to get this affirmation. Not long ago, an unkempt man in the dollar store was counting his money to see if he had enough to buy some bread. He asked me if I would give him a quarter. He reeked of alcohol, I told him no, but I would buy what he needed to actually eat. He was very careful in choosing his food. He wanted milk, but decided it would not last in the heat, so he chose fruit juice. He bought bologna, bread, cheese, a package of fruit and at my urging a package of cookies. He kept apologizing for how he was and kept thanking me. It is not out of great generosity that I do these things. It is the way I show my unacceptable part that I love it and care for it and will walk beside it.

When I left the store he was outside sharing his food with an equally bedraggled woman. He thought I made his day--but in reality--he made my day. I was grateful that I was not in his shoes, I was grateful that I had enough money to help, I was grateful that such a small act reaffirmed to me that I am worth while. I was lonely and alone, but just for the moment, I touched another human being and my loneliness seemed infintessimal compared to his. Every time I reach out to help someone, I reach out to help my own loneliness. I'm not great with long term relationships and closeness. This allows me closeness in the small ways that I can handle. I don't tell people about this stuff--so you have reached a very private place in me. And for the moment, I am with you--I am not alone.

Love and joy, SuziQ