response to the recent thread

[finding my way]

Thanks for your encouraging words today everyone. Notmary, I am sorry for your pain this weekend . I hope you feel you can return here to talk if need to... Hey mscat. Hope things are ok for you right now. Same for you, SweetSue, Symora, Lyndamomof7, Bluerose, amberlyn and anyone else.

[David O]

As a victim and survivor of >14 years and over 1000 incidents of sexual abuse, torture and other brutalities at the hands of a violent dictatorship, I thought to share this powerful and deep tale, which defines much of where I have arrived in my over half century on Earth. May each of us find a voice for ourselves, be made a bit richer and even more whole by it.

In ancient Persia (around the 13th century), the poet Farid ud-din Attar wrote a simile about the Simurgh, an eternal and immortal bird that lives atop the branches of the Tree of Knowledge:

....One day, one of the Simurgh's silver feathers is found somewhere in mid-China by another bird. The birds in China, by now exhausted and weary because they had been leaderless for so long, decide to make the long journey and seek out this great Simurgh, who, in their minds, will give become a compass to them, giving them guidance and direction in life. What the birds know is that Simurgh means "thirty birds" and that he makes his home in the Kaf, the magnificent mountain ranges of Persia.

Within hours of their decision, and after considerable debate, many of the birds begin to back off the plan, claiming the distance is too far, or their love for their own land and way of being. That parrot cannot leave his way of being, as a beautiful bird to be caged,... the heron cannot leave the marshes, the owl needs to be in his home, the nightingale must be by his rose,... and so each had a tale that prevented him from making the journey. And finally, the remaining sojourners begin their trek across the treacherous mountain ranges. After many days become weeks, which in turn become months, and finally years, and the birds have crossed the seven perilous valleys and seas, crossing the last two, which were called Bewilderment and Annihilation,... many of those who took the journey turn back, abandoning the unmerciful pilgrimage.

Finally, after years of painful and uncertain travel, the remaining birds arrive at the great mountain top of the silver feathered Simurgh. 30 birds survive the trek,... and as they look at each in other in amazement, they realize that they had been purified and refined by the pilgrimage,...they were the Simurgh,... the "30 birds" the legend spoke of.

For... we are all the Simurgh, and are always in a state of healing, understanding, refinement-------- and at times in awe of how far we've come despite so much adversity.

David O.

[Bluerose]

Thanks, David.

That's what we need here to cheer us up, some more stories. Here's one of my favourites that I love to share.

May You Always Feel Loved

May you find serenity and tranquility in a world you may not always understand. May the pain you have known, and the conflict you have experienced give you the strength to walk through life facing each new situation with optimism and courage. Always know that there are those whose love and understanding will always be there even when you feel most alone.

May you discover enough goodness in others to believe in a world of peace. May a kind word, a reassuring touch, a warm smile, be yours every day of your life, and may you give these gifts as well as receive them. Remember the sunshine when the storm seems unending. Teach love to those who know hate, and let that love embrace you as you go into the world.

May the teaching of those you admire become part of you, so that you may call upon them. Remember, those whose lives you have touched and who have touched yours are always a part of you, even if the encounters were less than you would have wished.

May you not become too concerned with material matters, but instead place immeasurable value on the goodness in your heart. Find time in each day to see the beauty and love in the world around you. Realize that each person has limitless abilities, but each of us is different in our own way. What you may feel you lack in one regard may be more than compensated for in another. What you feel you lack in the present may become one of your strengths in the future.

May you see your future as one filled with promise and possibility. Learn to view everything as a worthwhile experience. May you find enough inner strength to determine your own worth by yourself, and not be dependent on another's judgments of your accomplishments.

And...... May you always feel loved.

By Sandra Sturtz Hauss © 1987

PS. Hope tomorrow finds everyone feeling a little better than they did today.

[Mark]

All,

The other day I posted a new thread concerning a new book that's out regarding sexual abuse trauma. I misjudged the audience appropriateness of that book, which *appears* to minimize the traumatic nature of sexual abuse (but actually does not so far as I can tell), and (in hindsight, not too surprisingly), a number of people had strong emotional reactions to the post, believing that it was minimizing the impact of the horrendous experiences they went through. It was clear that the post was problematic fairly quickly, but when I floated the idea that we might remove the post, several posters responded that they thought it had utility. So I did not take it down. Later in the evening, a moderator (Malign) did take it down, after determining that it was creating far more difficulty that it balanced out with any utility it had. When I learned that this had happened, I was able to fully support the decision to remove the thread, because I had been ambivalent myself and only needed a little push to go in that direction. In hindsight, it was the right thing to do for the reason Malign determined. I hope that people will forgive my mis-step.

So, this present thread is in reaction to the earlier one, and hopes to help people process any upset that people may have experienced as a result of reading that now-deleted thread. And that is what people have been doing, more or less, which is good.

Some people may not want to talk about their reaction in public. If that is the case, and they'd like to talk to me about what has happened, please feel free to PM me.

Several people have talked about wanting the opportunity to talk about the book further. I do not believe that such a discussion can be safely done in public on this board, based on what we've seen. I'm sorry about that, but I hope that people can understand. There is great utility and great potential for healing and gaining perspective in talking about trauma, but it has to be done in a manner that feels safe (enough), and we are not in a position to be able to offer that degree of safety in this environment.

[Bluerose]

Well it was a bit of a ‘hick-up’ and caused a bit of distress but all is not lost. If nothing else it can serve as a gauge for us all as to what might hurt or upset our friends and cause us to be a little more thoughtful and considerate of their and everyone else’s feeling in future. And like Mark said, if any one want to, or feels the need to, discuss the book or what happened further, it might be best to do so through private messaging.

[amberlyn]

So I haven't really said anything on here, except asking which thread it was about. I just wanted to add a thing or two.

I, personally, enjoyed responding to Mark's post. Yes, it brought up some strong emotions for me... they were feelings of mostly anger toward the doctor who had the audacity to undermine my experiences. But it was passionate. I'm not passionate about much of anything these days, and it was good to feel that fire lit underneath me. It was also very therapeutic for me to talk about what the situations did to me. I tried not to talk about the details of what happened (I've done enough of that in therapy) but focused on more how it affected me - something I never really touched on in therapy. Therapy was always more of "this is the past, so let it go." I never focused on my reactions from the situations. Through the post, I was able to explore certain thoughts & feelings that I hadn't before...even after responding to it. However, while I found the post beneficial to me, I complete understand the need to remove the post. I apologize if anything I said was triggering to anyone & I hope everyone is feeling better. Take care, & I'm here if anyone wants to talk - whether you need a friend, or are interested in talking more about the previous topic.

[Lindamomof7]

Hi Amberlyn, yes that is exactly what i thought to. it is feelings that might not necessarily come up in therapy and I have always felt somewhat guilty of myself for not knowing that was wrong what was done to me. I logically know that now, but, I think it adds to my anger I have now from not being able to process it all through my life..... I guess that is the result of untreated childhood trauma.....

I wish you luck to in processing all of this in your life and me too if you want to PM.....

[Symora]

Now that a few days have gone by and I've processed a little more, I realize that it helped me truly see myself detached from what was done to me. I have never been able to visualize this before... In reading what you had lived, it projected a clear image of the separateness of the selfish abuser and the powerless child, and I finally could see that child in myself. So for those who were courageous enough to share, thank you, it helped me....

[Lindamomof7]

I am glad you have found some "peace" if you want to call it from others sharing and understanding how it meant to them which in turn helped you.

Maybe you can share more if you are ready and tell us more of how you found yourself detached?

I too had to go deep in and find a piece that was missing....

[Symora]

I don't know. I always understood that inner child thing, but it's the first time I identified her as being me. I saw how confused and sad she was. Feeling isolated mostly. Trying to figure things out, but too young to make sense of it alone. He tried hard to make me out to be the devil ... but I wasn't, I was separate from what was happening to me. I could see all of the other little girls, how powerless they were, embarassed that someone who was supposed to love them could be so selfish and cruel. It brought up a passion, a resentment, a fury.

I've been sitting here 5 minutes trying to figure out the next sentence, but I can't find it. There is no going back, there is no making her fell better, yet I am now an adult, I should have put that behind me long ago, figured it all out, overcome ...

[Lindamomof7]

Symora, It is ok. sometimes what we are suppose to do, we don't....

There are no rules in this horrible game of trauma/abuse. It seems everyone is affected differently and we are in all different levels of it's devasiating effect on us.

But we are all here writing about it so I guess we are "survivors". How we move on from here is a unique path for all of us and we all need to find out how to cope and put the trauma in it's perspective place in our heads and try to lead a healthy guilt free life....

I hope everyone is doing well....

[Guest ASchwartz]

Hi Symora and everyone,

The inner child is within each of us. While it is true that we cannot go back and correct the past, it is not true that the inner child cannot be comforted. The inner child can and should be comforted. Yeah, we are all adults! But, we have that child within us even though we are adult. That child needs to be embraced, loved, accepted and hugged. Accept her, pull her to you and love her without blaming her for anything.

Allan:)

[Lindamomof7]

Nicely said Allan, Thanks

[notmary]

I can't do this. How did you get to this point where you can move forward I feel like I am stuck in this hell and the fear is overwhelming

[Symora]

How about if you tell us a little more about how you feel Notmary... what's going on???

[amberlyn]

I definitely agree with Allan that the inner child NEEDS to be taken care of. He/she needs to feel loved, comforted, protected ... And who better to do that than ourselves? I actually had one therapist suggest that I buy a baby doll. (I don't know if this works because I never tried it, but it's worth suggesting.) Buy a baby doll that looks somewhat similar to yourself: same hair style, same skin tone, whatever. And then, whenever that fear overcomes you, whenever you feel that inner child screaming & needing to release all of the anxiety, comfort him/her. Hold the baby doll and talk to it. Call the child by name, telling the child "you're safe," "so-and-so isn't here anymore," "you're loved" ... and other phrases of compassion. Like I said, I don't know how well it would work, but it's worth throwing out there.

By the way, Symora, I'm glad that you were able to find something within yourself from what others shared. I think it's very strong of you to be able to confront that.

I hope everyone is doing alright. And Notmary, please talk to us some more. Maybe if we understand a little better, we could help you out. <3

[notmary]

I am feeling trapped in these memories that keep coming at me. The fear is paralyzing i don't feel safe because i dont know what is coming next and the voice is yelling at me because i am a stupid whore

[finding my way]

notmary, you are doing a good job speaking up. I know it must take all kinds of courage to do that. Is there anyone around you that is supportive? Do you have anyone to talk to? One of the most important things I learned at this site is how important it is to connect with others, at whatever level you are able to do that. Many here can relate to your pain. Many have terrible self talk going on and are struggling to gain some ground and gain the ability to turn that around. I'm so sorry you hurt you are always welcome here to share your struggles.

[Symora]

You were created noble, remember that! Someone may have done some cruel things to you, but that does not reflect on who you are, its a reflection of their selfishness and cruelty. Don't take it on ... be gentle with yourself.

[notmary]

I think i need to give up it is not going to get better and i cant deal with the images this voice my therapist says it is him but it is in me so i think it is me i need to turn this off i think i would be safer not feeling anything the way i used to be than to try to face these feelings because i am too weak

thank you for letting me post and i am sorry that this sounds so strange

[finding my way]

notmary, are there things you can do to build your ground? Are there positive people you can be with? Are there outlets for you that reflect hopeful things back to you? Self-talk can get so negative and ingrained... sometimes letting the world in in a positive way can put that stuff in it's place a bit. Take care tonight:o

[Bluerose]

I can't do this. How did you get to this point where you can move forward I feel like I am stuck in this hell and the fear is overwhelming

In my experience, sometimes feeling stuck turns out to be the moment just before a break though. Any progress no matter how small is good progress. The thing is to try not to worry too much about what is happening and just go with it. I also found that the more worried and upset I got the worse the situation got, and the calmer I managed to stay the quicker it sorted itself out.

[Bluerose]

amberlyn,

Or a teddy bear. I got a few and I'm a grandmother.

Whatever eases the pain no matter if it makes you feel a bit silly to begin with. Everybody should have a teddy bear. I never had one as a kid.

[Bluerose]

Another tip someone gave me was to have a photo of yourself when you were a child, put it in a nice frame and then put it in a prominent place, and look at it and smile at it, and think caring, forgiving thoughts whenever you pass it. It takes a little time but that too easies the pain. Maybe put some flowers by it.

[amberlyn]

Rose, I think those are all excellent ideas. I never had a teddy bear as a child either. Actually, I didn't have any dolls or anything of the sort except for one ... and I only had that one until I was about four.