Recruitment operation

[Guest ASchwartz]

Hello Borntoperish and Sam,

Sam, I read the Isaacson biography about Eintstein and I have no recollection of his throwing a chair at anyone. Now, I will admit that my memory is far from perfect and I read the book some time ago, but, I rather doubt the accuracy of your reporting on this event.

That brings me to a larger point I want to make, Sam and Born.

I have no idea why you even mention Einstein? What are you trying to say?

To go even further, I am having great difficulty understanding what either of you is talking about.

Borntoperish, to be honest, your posts have the flavor of someone posting when they are high on some drug.

Can any of the rest of you make any sense of what is happening here?

Allan:(

[Born to Perish]

Yay verily! I will continue racing across the land jumping from thread to thread and helping those that need me. For I am a super hero! Super hero! Ricolo!!!! I will tell you! I tell you what I-- I tell you what I... I am pleased to announce that freedom to me means the ability to be yourself when people will reject you. I love freedom! As far as my freedom ending is concerned: As long as I am mentally free, it doesn't matter about the physical. I love God so much! Thank you God for letting me live! Thank you lord thank you, thank you lord thank you, thank you lord thank you, thank you lord! I have abandonned all care. I think not about all of the consequences any longer. I live for the now! Forget about the future and try not to live in the past too long guys, even though it is fun. I am appreciative of you guys' concern. It feels so good to be loved. The thing is though- I DO NOT NEED MEDICATION ANY MORE. I just don't need it to be totally and completely honest. I am happy and I have a normal life just like everyone else. I am only 17 so, I mean... you know! I love this world, heck I love myself! Alot! I am awake! Here is the low down and I'd like you all to remember this from now to forever: I am a bisexual, psychotic, african american male in the USA and I won't be denied! FREE AT LAST FREE AT LAST THANK GOD ALMIGHTY, I AM FREE AT LAST! HA HA HA! NOW HOW YA LIKE THAT FROM YOUR UNCLE TOM!!! I'd like very much to hear from you guys some more! Especially you Samspruce!:eek:

Now: REALLY? I am none of these things. I have dark skin, but in the end I feel I am just a person. Not african american or whatever other crap you wanna call it. That separates me from the populace and labels me. I am just a person. All of this crap I wrote back then, How embarassing. It is only embarassing because it is a lie. I am not those things. I "identify" as african american, but who cares! I am above labels. I won't take down what I wrote though. Then people won't see the actual struggle I went through.

[LaLa]

Well, for me personally, this is an illustration of how a manic phase of PBD can look like. Quite terrifying... (but the depressive phase is much worse, I'm sure)

[malign]

Born,

The first thing I'd like to say is that no one here wants to, or can, restrict your freedom. All we can do is what we're doing: talking to you.

One thing I notice you writing about often is a feeling that you're physically threatened, somehow. No one here is advocating that you be forced to do anything. Violence, either toward you or by you, is something to be avoided, if at all possible (that one's my own opinion.) Do you feel as if people are threatening you?

I notice that you have had difficulties with people who judged you and lumped you into a category so that they could say things about you. But I also noticed that you do it, too: "normies" are this and "savages" are that. I understand that you wish for a world where everyone is friendly and no one judges a person for being different. But don't we have to practice what we believe, if we want to make a change? All of the people in those categories are people, though they may be misguided. Please don't make the same mistake they have, and assume they're all the same.

[Born to Perish]

Luna you are hilarious you know that! HARDY HAR HAR HAR! POST BOOGIE DEPRESSION? IS THAT IT? :( I read what was just written and I must say that my mood has officially been brought down. I am sorry... I---- not all normies are the same okay. Some are really great. In fact I have many friends who are normies. Heck my parents are normies. I am merely a lunatic and they are not; this has been discovered. This is one reason why I call them normies. People have disagreements, but I don't want anyone thinking what I am saying is mean. It only made me feel better about being very different from almost every single last life form on the planet. I am alone in who I am and people find my behavior strange. People tend to not understand when I try explaining myself. Maybe I'm just not good at it. I am glad you came by Malign. I only call them normies, because I am providing retaliation for certain kinds of peoples' actions of savagery and bigotry. I am sorry... It only makes me feel safer and like I have something in this world. Without pride I've got nothing. No matter what material may come my way next, I must say that pride is neccesary to me. Now there is a difference between pride and foolish pride. I am not foolish and nor narrow minded, however in matters regarding me and my well being I can be, because despite what is said to me all I really hear is: "Give up, submit, surrender, assimilate, it's been a nice run, bow down, be sad, be angry, be unhappy all of the time, join the party or suffer the consequences, you are so wierd." This is all I hear even in the sincerest of times. Samspruce is really the one person that did not make me feel like this at any given time. He understands me. But, we are all equals here so, I must say that I am sorry if anyone felt isolated by anything that I just said or have said in the past. I do not want to hurt others, because I know the pain. I have a fear of the pain getting worse so that is why I brace myself for action. Regardless of what is said here today I know one thing in my heart and I'm pretty sure you know what it is: I am not accepted for who I truly am and I am shunned by almost every single person on this planet earth. Yes I am born to die so says the world, however I don't care anymore. You only live once. Sorry for any discomfort I may have caused. Samspruce if you are out there, please come and talk to me okay? You are the greatest earthbound friend I have ever had. The Heart is a House of Love

Now: How many freaking times did I call myself that?!!! Truly disgracful.

[IrmaJean]

BTP, it's great that you feel the freedom to express and be yourself. I am concerned, however, about your not thinking of potential consequences. You can live in the here and now while also considering the possibilities your actions and behaviors may have on yourself and others. I hope that you will protect yourself in a physical sense so that you may further enjoy the freedom that you speak of.

[malign]

Born,

Please don't take my words as meaning that I don't accept you; I do. I understand how easy it is to react to feeling threatened by returning the threat. It's just that I think we both (correct me if I'm wrong) feel that retaliation doesn't improve anything. It's natural to feel angry at what some people do to us, but it's not going to help anything to act on that feeling.

You say you need pride, and I agree that we all do. The question is, what do you derive your pride from? You know, you can choose to feel pride for forgiving people, knowing that they're mistaken for thinking it's bad to be different. You just have to decide what kind of person you want to be.

I'm not interested in having you give in, or submit, especially to me. All I hope for you is that you live the best life you can.

[Born to Perish]

You are really awesome Malign! That is all I wanted to hear from you. You have made me feel alot better. It seems that every time I read someone's post, that they do not understand what I am trying to say and they feel that there is a motive for my actions. There is no motive. I am who I am and I am proud to be alive. Thank you guys so much. Irma thank you as well for your concern. I think it is amazing that I have so many nice people to converse with. This is awesome! I am very open with my feelings now and it feels so great. Yes I am living the life I have always dreamed of living and right now I am very safe. This is a really good day for me. Is anyone else curious about my life or anything else? :cool:As you know by now: I'm always listening.... da da da da da......

[David O]

Born,

Your energy and vive are refreshing... my thinking is that you take it to the forum and look at where others are. You may have much to share and as long as we focus on what you're experiencing only and keep your "good vibe" tucked away on this one thread, it can't be shared with others.

Keep in mind, as you look to share, to be extremely careful with your words (a warning all of us heed carefully, and especially me who has had to learn this lesson several times) so that you may help lead others to finding their own health and worthiness.

Malign is right, having you submit or relinquish who you are should not be our goal... it is that you lead the fullest and best life possible.

Good luck in your exploits BTP,

David

[samspruce]

Hi, Sam,

I see you're very intelligent and I don't want that it seems I'm oversimplifying (you'd probably "blame" me for it),

Er... Thank you for the compliment but why would I "blame" you? I guess if I thought that an over simplification was leading to an erroneous conclusion I would probably want to offer my thoughts for consideration.

but... I have a feeling that according to your opinions, it would be better to let a person to harm others than to change her to avoid this harming. But then where are the limits? Would you argue by the same arguments also in a case of a murderer, because it's only the bad society who caused his change into a psychopat? Which "harming" is "justifiable" and which is not?

I don't want to be offensive at all, I only wonder if you realize all the consequences of your attitude. Maybe I'm completely wrong, I didn't grasp your ideas, but... I'd appreciate your answer...

Well I gave this much thought. And then some more. In fact I spent several hours thinking about it. First let me say that the conclusions you are suggesting are not my conclusions. Let me also say that your feelings are perfectly valid. How could it be any other way?

I cannot think how to answer your question in one post and so I will try to make one or two brief points that might help us understand each other.

A psychopath is not a killer by definition. And a psychopath that does kill is to be feared far less in my opinion than a passionate religious killer. And passionate religious people are not killers by definition either.

One of the things we seem to do is to take things to extremes in our fear of what might happen. Someone bouncing off the walls is not to be regarded as out of control so they might hurt someone or they might kill someone or they might destroy the world so we had better stop them now. It is precisely that fear that causes the human race to "do" the very things they are most afraid of. Bouncing off the walls is just bouncing off the walls. Mass murder is mass murder. They are not the same thing. It is an ongoing problem for humanity but there is no simple answer except possibly love.

And I don't think you are being offensive. When you wonder if I realise the consequences of my attitude I think you are suggesting that you think the consequences are bad one's. If the consequences of love are bad then so be it. It's not what I think. I do think that we live in fear of the evil that might occur because we are free and ironically the "Christian" culture seems precisely the opposite of the Christian ideas.

To go straight to an important point: If Born bounces too hard he will get hurt. This is what we call learning. We all got here and we all have our own lessons to learn. If Born asks for relief from a headache by all means suggest aspirin. If he asks for help because he is stuck by all means suggest any one of a hundred drugs. But he hasn't asked for that sort of help. He asked for friends.

There seems to be this idea that Born is in danger. As he rightly points out he is only in danger from other people. If we think clearly about this it leads us to one conclusion. It is the other people who are the problem.

If we are worried that Born might get hurt and we try to stop him acting in a way which will cause other people to hurt him are we not complying with the cascading oppression in which we are all immersed. Where is the suggestion that Born is limiting other people's freedom? He applauds other people's freedom. He celebrates it. He revels in feeling alive. The only objection he has expressed is to people who oppress him. And the only suggestion of harm to them has been made in a phenomenally creative dramatisation of revolution and Armageddon. It's called being creative. It is all about him being free to express his feelings. Am I wrong?

P.S.: As far as this debate about meds, BP, ... is concerned, I agree absolutely with David.

Since this is a P.S. I'll let it past with no more comment than to say it is your prerogative and I don't.

[Born to Perish]

Thank you very much David! I have been waiting for you to say that. Samspruce! Please don't take this the wrong way, but are you God? Seriously. It seems as if you are an exact replica of me and I know I have no clone so, how were you able to do this? You are amazing! You deserve the world and then some for this incredible feat if you are not the almighty spirit sending me messages through the internet. If you are not I am terribly sorry and I don't want you to be mad at me, because I thought this was a possibilty. My friend told me the devil called her one time and he was bargaining with her. It was not a figure of speech either, she gave me a complete story and I was amazed. It is horrible that the devil is able to do this, but I know God can and he has in the past. If it is you, God, then may I say it is an honor conversing with you. Please respond Samspruce, for if you are a mortal, I must know, for I am unworthy to converse with the heavenly master. Please respond Samspruce.

Now: Had I lost my ever loving mind? God? Really? REALLY? REALLY? No... REALLY?

[LaLa]

Hi, Sam,

I don't have any objections against what BTP is writing here. I don't think he has to be "limited" by someone! When I ask about the freedom and its limits, it's because of the people around him (in his real life), in the sence David has written about. I don't think that HE would be able to hurt somebody physically (I hope so ). The exemple of a murder was not general (as if every "mad" man was able to kill or hurt!), it was an extreme case to illustrate that the limits have to be set somewhere. (So it was not about BTP at all.)

I see that BTP has only good intentions in this forum. That's great! But I think that there are too many proofs that such "mania" often turns into depression and that both these stages are very, very hard to withstand for the people who live with the manic or depressed man, that it is very reasonable to point it out here (as David did). That's all, I think.

Added later: One memory came to my mind in this context: BTP wrote, somewhere in the beginning of this thread, that he has/had "homicidal and genocidal thoughts". I don't think he's going to act in accordance with them, but... don't you understand that things like this may legitimately scare "normal" people?...

My associations: There is a "rule" that when somebody speaks about his suicidal intentions, there is a big risk that he will attempt suicide. Is it bad, according to your theory of freedom, when people give him meds to get off these intentions? And is it illogical when people do the same with somebody who has "genocidal thoughts"? ... (I'm not spkeaking about BTP (!), I mean it in general.)

I searched the post about the "genocid" etc. and found there also: <<I once thought about killing my own family, because they lie to me and tell me to be myself, but they don't want me to be myself so they get me hyped up on medication, threaten to put me in a straight jacket if I cut myself again.>>

So, if I understand you good, you say that the only problem here is the family and that it's alright that when they don't accept BTP as he is, he'd like to kill them. For me, to be "human" (I don't know how to call it; I don't want to say "normal" as this is not the right word here!) means also to be open for searching for the optimal solutions, optimally those that wouldn't hurt others. You're so delighted by the creativity of BTP; but do you think that "killing his family" is a creative idea? ... I think it's a proof of his lack of ability to solve problems. O.K. - now he changed a lot, because he found friends here and it's great. But I'm affraid that he will take this only as a proof that "he's O.K., good people can accept him, but not his family, so the family is bad" - and so the problem from the beginning is still here. I think he'd need hepl with understanding the others, not only his friends from this forum, but also his family etc. What you give him is only a reassurance that there are people that accept and like him. This IS important, I know he needs and deserves it! But I think that it would be better for him to understand also "the others" - when understood, they will no more seem to be "limiting" and "persecuting". Being "human" includes also "understanding of other's feelings and attitudes", or at least trying to. It seems to me BTP only wants to understand himself and his friends here.

Sorry, I think this "conversation" is probably quite irrelevant and not appropriate for this forum. But... I hope people who think so don't read it

[shye1]

Hey guys (sometimes I feel like I'm "eavesdropping" on a forum conversation that I'm reading but am not a part of). Born first I just wanna say, I do believe you when you say you're mentally competent. I kindof understand where you're coming from with the meds situation. Sometimes I think meds could help me too, even though I dont feel like I'm necessarily on the same "mental level" as you, I just know that it could probably make some difference in my life to help me with anxiety. But like you, I also know the side effects and while they may be different from your side effects, they're important enough for me to decide meds aren't worth it. At the present moment, in the now, I know I can live my life the way I am without meds, I just need to know myself and learn to love myself. I love that you say you love yourself. I've often thought of going on meds for a little bit of time, just to get a feeling for it. But I wouldn't stay on them forever. Because honestly, everyone has things in their lives that could either be seen as challenges or opportunities. You say people say you're "crazy," because you're different. But I don't see you as crazy, I see you as eccentric. I think that you accept this part of yourself and so then it's not necessarily good or bad, it just is. I've always been drawn to people who are are unapologetic for who they are because I feel at ease to be myself when I'm with them. I also see you as very emotional which could, like other people have noted in this thread, go the other way and you could feel sad. But so can everyone, isn't that just life? In hind sight I think this whole past year I've dedicated to learning about my ups and downs and how to handle them. I try to know deep down that I will feel happy again when I'm sad, and I'm humbled and grateful in my happy times knowing that it won't last forever. Again, it just depends on how you look at things, your perspective. There is no reality, only perceived reality. I think you know you're "out there" compared to others but you like that part of yourself. Ok you're still young and when you're an emotional, sensitive, intelligent person you will feel things a lot harder than everyone else. I don't know if you're Bipolar or what, but I've known a bipolar guy and hes quite happy on Prozac now. But first he was put on Lithium and he hated it. It made him lethargic and he's an energetic, outdoorsey kind of guy. He just had to find the right brand and balance. You said you've already been on some meds and they didn't work out, thats cool, maybe down the line you might try them again but I think you're gonna be OK for now. I trust that you can take care of yourself, as good as a 17 year old can take care of themselves. I hope that you have in your offline life the same kind of relationships you seem to cherish so much on here. We can hope for such freedom and acceptance.

[Luna-]

Hi BornToPerish

How are you today? What's happening? - watcha doin'?

[LaLa]

I've just read the "I'm new" thread started by "IWannaWakeUp". There are some important ideas about "bad" thoughts. I'd just like to say I agree with the attitude described by Luna, I even admire it (the "Hi.Bye." strategy - how cool! ). But I think this is something that has to be learned. The first step is to want to. (So when I was writing about the people who can scare us by their thoughts, I didn't meant people like Luna or Symora.)

I'm sorry, I probalbly complicate the "debate" too much...

[Luna-]

(Lala: I'm very glad to hear that my thoughts don't scare you. )

Hi again BornToPerish -

I want to say:

1. You are not mentally incompetent. I've never thought so. You are very intelligent.

2. There is no reason for me to be mad at you or reject you. You are a good person.

You know by now that I'm a "what you see is what you get" kind of person, so I'll be straightforward and say that as far as I can tell, you are most probably in a manic state. Can you see this? I don't know how much experience you have with up and down cycles, but what goes up must come down and even though it seems impossible to you now, you'll crash again and it will hurt you. Please understand that I'm not trying to control you or make you submit to anything.

I know from bitter experience that the higher you fly the harder you fall and I don't want you to fall hard. I also know that when we get high like this, we can't see it ourselves, someone else must point it out to us. Better it be a friend who tells you this because they are concerned. This is why I am trying to encourage you to keep your feet on the ground and temper this manic state with reason. If you don't temper your 'flight' yourself, others will come and do it, and you and I know that isn't a nice experience. This is a MEDICAL issue, not one of craziness or control. Because I am your friend I am pointing out to you, that you are flying too high.

I'm bipolar and you may not believe this, but it is quite possible for me to be free and to be me, while taking all four of my meds. In fact my meds enable me to be free to be the original individual that I am! Without them I can't get out of bed, can't work, can't take care of my children, can't do my art or any other things I love, feel like death, make everyone around me deeply unhappy and upset, do stupid things I regret afterwards, can't be me and most definitely can't be free.

You're smart, so I hope you're still open to the idea that meds don't have to 'control' you and you don't have to 'submit' to them. My meds don't zonk me out, I am wide awake and living my life. I'm 48 and no-one bullies me into taking my meds, not even my psychiatrist. Do you understand that I'm free?

I look forward to hearing your response to what I've said. (Can you see that you are high?) Until then, look after yourself, ok?

[Born to Perish]

The damage has been done. La La.... How dare you. You may not realize this but you said I was not normal. You also said I was selfish, you insulted my loved ones, you made me feel isolated. If you don't like me, then don't talk to me. La La it is not my family that is the problem. It is people like you thinking that they are better than everybody else, because they were born differently. Name something that you have had to go through. Go ahead name it. I bet it's all about physical items you didn't recieve or bills you have to pay. In the future I will be paying them as well and also I will have to deal with the problems that I was born with. I never said I wanted to hurt my family. I said I thought about it. Meaning my disorder or what ever caused this random thought to appear in my head. Listen care fully: I am as normal as anyone else. The term normie has a worse meaning to me now than it ever did before. It is not only someone with no mental illness, but someone who looks down upon others as if they were inferior. It is also a coward, who cares nothing for the compassion of others. If you didn't want to write it or have me read it then why did you put it up? You don't need this community La La. I'd be willing to bet money that you are nothing, but a poser or a psychiatrist. No matter what you say to me in the future, you will always be a normie. You have proved it with your harsh words and actions here today. I came here not only looking for help and guidance, but also friendship. I am so stupid. I actually thought I could find friendship. How dumb am I huh? Sad. Luna I am pleased and delighted to have made your acquaintance. As for David, why did you kick Sam out? I want an answer so don't beat around the bush. And am I next? Yeah. Yeah I get it, this is the part where normie tyranny comes into play and I am ruthlessly disregarded like the piece of trash you think I am. Well I've got news for you. I don't need help. I am not a piece of trash. I am not mentally incompetent. I can make my own decisions. I will NEVER assimilate. I swear to God I'd rather die than do this. I am seathing. It is absolutely unspeakable to have David and La La betray me in this way. Now that you have eliminated the only chance I had of having a true earthbound friend, you are going to kick me out as well. I know it. I know alot for my age. Regardless of your excuse I know the motive for you kicking me out. You are afraid of what is different and you know in your heart that I am right. You toy with me and claim that I am not able to make my own decisions. You insult my loved ones. You curse me with all your might. It is obvious that you have NEVER listened to me. And I swear on my grandmother's grave that if you do not heed and understand every single last word that was said here to day, I will dismiss myself. Every single word. I appreciate the comments from Shye and especially you Luna. Sam, my angel, you are no longer... Either my demands are met and you acknowledge the fact that I do not need medication, I am not in a manic state this is the way I always was and that I understand exactly what the "normal" or "generic" rather brain functions like or you can say goodbye to me forever. And that's the bottom line.

Now: No no afraid not. That is not the bottom line because I am back baby and I've got just two words to say: DECEPTION. DISGRACE.-Lion King. I was an idiot! Oh my god I didn't even read what she said correctly, because I was caught up in foolishness. So sorry La La. Should have never written the above. I will keep it here only as a reminder of what I won't do in the future.

[David O]

As for David, why did you kick Sam out? I want an answer so don't beat around the bush. And am I next? Yeah. Yeah I get it, this is the part where normie tyranny comes into play and I am ruthlessly disregarded like the piece of trash you think I am. Well I've got news for you. I don't need help. I am not a piece of trash. I am not mentally incompetent. I can make my own decisions. I will NEVER assimilate. I swear to God I'd rather die than do this. I am seathing. It is absolutely unspeakable to have David and La La betray me in this way. Now that you have eliminated the only chance I had of having a true earthbound friend, you are going to kick me out as well. I know it. I know alot for my age. Regardless of your excuse I know the motive for you kicking me out. You are afraid of what is different and you know in your heart that I am right. You toy with me and claim that I am not able to make my own decisions. You insult my loved ones. You curse me with all your might. It is obvious that you have NEVER listened to me. And I swear on my grandmother's grave that if you do not heed and understand every single last word that was said here to day, I will dismiss myself.... Either my demands are met and you acknowledge the fact that I do not need medication, I am not in a manic state this is the way I always was and that I understand exactly what the "normal" or "generic" rather brain functions like or you can say goodbye to me forever. And that's the bottom line.

Born,

Sam is not kicked out, there is no mention of him being kicked out... but, after having been informed by me and others that his words were not helping the situation, I did place a hold on his ability to post here for a few days so that he would be more cognizant of what he was saying. Sam can return and my hope is, as I told him, that he will continue to be a part of the community. Unfortunately, or fortunately, there is no "normie" tyranny here-- 99% of us struggle with mental health issues. I'm a fellow sufferer with complex and severe PTSD (as you may have read in one of my first posts to you), Luna experiences Bipolar Disorder, others have Schizophrenia, Depression, and other difficult conditions-- and we're all here to support and encourage each other. What we don't do, however, is separate ourselves and create a divided world of the in-group (those like us) and an out group (normies, those not like us)-- we all need each other and are a part of the mosaic that is life.

No one is kicking you out, that has never entered anyone's mind and is not even an issue.

Whether or not you need medication is up to you, this is your life and we come into it as you invite us (which you did when you began posting), no more and no less. If in inviting us in we notice that your behavior and the things you're saying seem over the top, then someone may suggest treatment, that's the nature of the forum, that we listen with compassion, understanding, sensitivity, and wisdom-- and that we listen from our own very tangible, very real life experiences and wounded souls. If our wisdom, or compassion, or sensitivity, or understanding is not what you need for the moment, then let us know and we'll respect that; however, the responses of many here have been out of concern for you, whether you accept or recognize this. In addition, too many times how and what we say doesn't come out right because we are limited to this screen and a few keys to peck on.

I do apologize if our words and actions have brought you pain and frustration, this is never our intent. Hopefully this explains my side of the issue.

David

[LaLa]

Hi,

I don't know if you want to read anything from me now. But for the case you would:

I didn't insult you or anybody else. O.K., your opinion is that I did, I will not argue. I just want to say that writing that you are not "normal" seemed to me as only repeating your own statements: You've always written that you don't belong among the normies - maybe it's because of my bad English that I supposed that it means that you don't consider yourself as normal. For me normal doesn't mean necessarily mentally competent, intelligent, wise. So saying that you are "not normal" doesn't mean that you are not this all.

What surprised me most is that you care so much about my opinion. WHY? You have many people here who like you a lot, so WHY do you say things like "The damage has been done"? What damage? Does it mean that if anybody writes about you something that you interpret as insulting (even that it was not meant so!), you are "damaged"? That's very very sad! In our lifes, we are sometimes subjected to criticism, even from people we love and we have to be able to cope with it and not only "cope"; we should take an advise from the criticism. But I'm not somebody whose opinion has to be relevant for you. I'm not somebody who you love or who is an authority (I consider myself to be "all sorts of things" but authority!). So why do you feel as damaging when I write something "bad" about you?

You also wrote: <<Name something that you have had to go through.>> Why should I do it here? I named already several things in many posts in this forum. I didn't wrote everything about myself yet. Maybe I never will. Bud if yes, then certainly not "to show you or anybody else what I have had to go through".

By the way; it seems funny to me that you think I consider myself as "better than everybody else", as I'm in therapy because I hated myself almost all my life and considered myself to be inferior. If only your strange impression/opinion could be a sign of the efficacity of my therapy! (I'm sorry, I'm joking... doesn't matter if you don't understand)

I'm sorry to have meddled in this thread; it was a mistake. We all make mistakes. I don't want you to "forgive me". I just want you not to feel bad because of what I have written.

[Born to Perish]

La La, you made me feel like a jerk. I am sorry and I do forgive you. You are absolutely right in everything that you said except the part about me saying that I didn't belong around normies. My parents are normies. I love them with all my might, because they love me no matter what, that's all I ever really wanted. I should allow you to write as you wish. I overreacted. I just got so emotional after a while, because I have been down this road before and I knew where it was going. People in the past have always said: You need help, you need help. But I knew in m heart that I was happy and they would not relent. The difference is is that you are not the one putting me in a straight jacket or jacking me up on pills or calling out front wierd. You are simply providing criticism. I have anger problems like nobody's business and I tend to do this sometimes. I just wanted everyone to know that I am in no way depressed anymore and I will not go back unless others try and force it, and maybe not even then. I am currently training myself to overcome fear and preparing for pain that awaits me. To be honest life can be cruel and at the same time delightful. I don't consider anyone's pressence or commentary meddlesome at all. Say as you please. I will go through out the rest of my life hearing things I don't want to hear that are 10 times worse than what you accidentally said. I didn't know that you didn't understand, I just thought that you did, but you didn't care or you didn't believe me or didn't listen to what I said. Now that I know this, if you will allow me I'd love to be your friend and I apologize dearly. As for you David thank you very much as well. I was probably mostly angry about Samspruce's dismissal earlier, but now I have calmed down. I still believe in my heart that it was unnecessary, but I have grasped your motive for doing so. If it please I'd like to apolgize to anyone who may have found my comments appalling. As you all know I am a very meek person and I do not intend to abuse anyone with my words at any given time here. You all are in a minority, so I can relate believe me. I shall post in the next area so that you can hear why I am so scared all of the time okay. Here it goes---

[Born to Perish]

I am not just afraid that people will persecute me. I know they will. It is inevitable. Let's take the entire world's population and narrow it down shall we. Take the color of my skin and my nationality. About a third of the world's population has just declined to even come near me. Next I'm bisexual. So all of the heterosexuals are going to freak out and get scared. Including the girls, because usually they get along with homosexuals well, but when it comes to someone who likes both, then they get scared too. That's not all! The LGBT- Lesbian, gay, bisexual and Trangendered community is comprised of several different classes. So the gays will think that I am a poser, because they believe bisexuality to be nothing more than a cry for attention. The lesbians usually don't want to go anywhere near men and they also think I am a poser. The transgendered ones are probably just like the heterosexuals. Finally we get down to the bisexuals. Most of them are posers! And when I do find the real one's, they have to accept my nationality, my size, my religion, and my skin color. And if that won't drive them away, then my personality will. Who is left? No one on this planet. I am the ultimate hated one, because of all of this and that is why I haven't changed my name. I am born to die. But wait guys, because it means something to me. I may have been chosen for death, but that doesn't mean that I have to surrender by doing away with myself or changing myself to adapt to the world. It is my decision and the way I see it, forced assimilation made me consider suicide, so which would I rather do, give up or try? Either way it is the same result, you only live once and you can't live forever, so I chose to live my life to the fullest, even though no one could ever really bring themselves to have a relationship with me or be seen with me or even tolerate who I am. I cannot change the color of my skin, my nationality, and especially not my sexuality or personality. Sure I can act, but that only brings me one step closer to total annihilation. If there is anyone who can prove me wrong, and I say this sarcastically because I know you cannot. Tell me the truth. Knowing everything that you all know about me: Would you ever date me or be seen with me, knowing everybody else knows who I am and what I'm about? Please answer. As if I didn't already know it. I'll understand though. Speak your minds friends, you have nothing to fear from me.

[David O]

Born,

I was deeply concerned that you had left, but am most happy and relieved that you've decided to remain with us. All of us make great efforts to be respectful and to treat each other as humanely, and as generously and unconditionally as possible-- sometimes our words escape these values we hold so dearly.

Join us now, young Mr. Born, and continue on your journey of listening, learning and adding value to others on the forum.

David

[IrmaJean]

I am not just afraid that people will persecute me. I know they will. It is inevitable. Let's take the entire world's population and narrow it down shall we. Take the color of my skin and my nationality. About a third of the world's population has just declined to even come near me. Next I'm bisexual. So all of the heterosexuals are going to freak out and get scared. Including the girls, because usually they get along with homosexuals well, but when it comes to someone who likes both, then they get scared too.

You're doing a lot of over-generalizing here, Born. There is no reason to feel scared when there is no threat. I have a hunch that those who are afraid also likely have some doubts about their own sexuality. It's good to keep in mind that the behavior of others reflects on them and not you. Certainly there are many people out in the world who would appreciate everything about you and who would accept you just as you are.

I cannot change the color of my skin, my nationality, and especially not my sexuality or personality. Sure I can act, but that only brings me one step closer to total annihilation. If there is anyone who can prove me wrong, and I say this sarcastically because I know you cannot. Tell me the truth. Knowing everything that you all know about me: Would you ever date me or be seen with me, knowing everybody else knows who I am and what I'm about? Please answer. As if I didn't already know it. I'll understand though. Speak your minds friends, you have nothing to fear from me.

Without question, Born, I would be more than willing to be seen with you. I very much believe in accepting people for who they are. I just want you to be safe and well in being who you are.

[Born to Perish]

I can't believe it. I know for a fact that you read when I told everyone about everything I was about when I first came to the forum and you said you were still listening and you still accepted me for who I was. This notwithstanding, I thought, sure, it's easy to be friends online, but would you ever live down the shame of being seen with me? That is what I thought, but I feel 10 times better now. It is unfathomable that this can be true. I can't believe that I have finally found a person that would not only tolerate me, but would allow me to be in their pressence. This is too good to be true. Are you 100% sure that you would allow me to be in your pressence; not that this is possible or anything, I just wanted to know. It just amazes me. Thank you too David, like I said before you are awesome. Or as Penny Proud would say: "You're the Bomb!" That felt good! I am back baby and it feels good to be alive! (maniacal laughter). Once again I'd like people to comment on what was written about in the "Continuation" segment and Irma I am also waiting for the reassurance that you are sure about what you just said. You guys are awesome! And be sure to let me know if I am scaring anyone at all, because I have no desire to do this. Come back okay! The Heart is a House of Love!

Now: So sad. The SHAME of being seen with me? Really? Oh my god, how sad is that. I was seriously hurt back then. Thank God I am now happy and enlightened. If you are ashamed, just go away, I don't need you in my life. Horrible stuff.

[LaLa]

Hi, BTP,

Thank you for your posts. It was very pleasant to read. Not the fact that you "have forgiven me" - it really doesn't matter much, it's your choice, but the fact that you expressed much better and much more clearly your problems than anytime before!

I'm a heterosexual white woman. But I don't have any problem with bisexual and/or black people. (By the way, I had two black teachers, born in Africa - at elementary school and at high school - and I liked them both a lot! ) And meeting you would be very interesting and - I suppose - also enjoyable! As far as dating you is concerned; I can't tell you anything about it, as I can't imagine dating anybody who I don't know very well, and what's more, since I'm not single, I can't imagine dating anybody else than "the man of mine" ...

I'm very sorry that you didn't find yet people (in the real world) who can accept you as we can ... But it's great that you finally decided not to give up and to enjoy your life! I wish you to meet realy good friends in your real life soon...