Jump to content
Mental Support Community

all time low


dying inside
 Share

Recommended Posts

Hi,

I am a 32 year old single man and I also suffer with having a small penis. I have reached a point where I cannot continue living life the way I have for the past 15 years. I need help to change my life and I am hoping this is a step in the right direction.

My story (for anyone willing to read)

My issues began when I was about 12 and started noticing physical changes in friends that I was not experiencing at the time. I was a year younger than my peers and it showed. I kept telling myself puberty would start soon for me and i would catch up. Instead my shame continued and escalated through the years as I was a very late developer. I only started noticing a change in my body when I was 16 and my voice only broke closer to 17. Needless to say, I was extremely self conscious around the guys and people in general.

Once puberty started, I thought things were on track now, and soon I would be just like all the other guys. Not to be. When I was about 20 I realised I was not going to get any bigger.

I am just under 4 inches in length and girth. I realise this is not micropenis territory but it is still well under "average".

I have only had sex once when I was 21. The girl was a virgin, which is what gave me confidence to have sex in the first place. Since then I have not had any relations of any kind. Through the years I have become completely withdrawn from life.

Since I turned 16, only 2 people have seen me naked. The girls I slept with and about 5 years ago I went to a plastic surgeon for advice on penile enlargment... It was one of the most mentally excrutiating experiences I have ever had. I never use a urinal and suffer from extreme anxiety even thinking about someone seeing me naked.

Through me being so withdrawn I now also have a drinking problem. I drink at home alone everynight. I find it numbs what I am feeling and helps me forget what I need to deal with. I hide it very well from my loved ones and nobody has a clue.

I used to be an extremely friendly and very easy going guy. I got along with everyone and had an abundance of friends not to mention girls who were really into me. But I have forced people out of my life and I have now forgotten who I used to be.

I think about dying everyday! I don't think I am at a stage where I would actually do it as just thinking about it brings out feeling of extreme guilt for the pain I would cause my family. What is worrying me it that my depression and hatred for life is getting consistently worse and I am scared that might outweigh my feelings of guilt.

Please can someone offer me some insight.

Thanks in advance

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello, dying inside. I'm very sorry that you are hurting so much over this. I'm a woman and I don't care about the size of a man's genitals. (I really hope that you don't doubt me, Recluse.) To me, it's all about the mind and heart. Discovering the rest is appreciating a man for who he is...just as he is. You mention being friendly and easy-going. It sounds as if you are someone who others might find comfortable to talk with. Maybe try getting back out there and putting yourself in social situations. You said yourself the girls were really into you. I'm sure you have a lot to offer.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hey, thanks for the feedback! I wish I could go the prostitute route to try and build some sort of confidence, but unfortunately living in South Africa it is just too risky. I wish i could just find some sort of dating site where all the women had a fetish for small knobs. My biggest fear is the first sexual encounter. I really think that if I found someone who accepted me for me I would be content, I am just not willing to put myself on the chopping block just to be humiliated. I do not trust anyone!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Irma Jean, thanks for the post. I do not doubt that there are women out there who would appreciate me for me. I do have something to offer... but the possibilty of being humiliated is just too much for me to handle. I am just so scared of being rejected that it keeps me from living a life. I realise it sounds strange, even as I type I know my thoughts are not what all women think of or care about, yet just the simple thought of showing myself to anyone makes me cringe!!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Theres a theme here, we all hate ourselves, and have a fear of deing humiliated for being small, and so withdraw from life and fail to achieve anything becomming full losers.

I have slept with 50 women only 3 or 4 that I know of humiliated me in private and in public. I know I have pleased women sexually (4"X4") But once you are outed publicly over this, then ridiculed by others, thats when you will realise what this thing is really about.

Women will tell their friends about your size for the following reasons, they think its funny, strange, cant feel it etc. or the sympathy reasons, "I asked my friend about it for advice and she told everybody" "I didnt know what to doabout it so I asked my friend" what ever the reason it will eventually become common knowledge, every one will know you are small, and you will be humiliated for it. Thats the best our lives can be.

There is no cure for this thing. All you can do is have sex and accept the humiliation, heaped on you by yourself, by the woman you sleep with and the people that she will tell.

You will now be told that not all women will tell because it doesnt matter to them. But you can never know which one, so dating is like russian roulette which you will always lose. The prize for losing is the most crushing humiliation of this whole thing.

How are you with self hate? Because this wont get any better either.

Edited by nearlydead
added
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hey. I'm sorry to hear that you feel so shitty. I tried to argue for the integrity of personhood in another post (wasn't received too well, heh), so here's a different angle for you all.

While I can imagine that being judged or humiliated by a woman for your size is very painful, there are women out there who won't give a damn about the size of your penis. And there are women out there who would enjoy being with a man with a smaller penis. And I know this is true because I am one of them! My boyfriend has a relatively large penis and I have told him on a few occasions that I wish his penis was smaller so that it would fit more comfortably inside me/not cause me pain. There are a number of positions we have to avoid completely because his penis goes in too deep and it doesn't feel pleasurable. I know that I would feel more sexually adventurous if I didn't have to worry about a piercing, stabbing pain from too deep a thrust.

Then there is the fact that any woman who would cause you any grief over the size of your penis, or make fun of you, etc. is a piece of garbage. I guess its hard to tell in advance who might do this... but there are ways to screen people for what they might be into. 1) if you know a woman as a friend, and can judge her character, you can probably figure out if she would do this to you 2) you could always specifically look for people who are into small penises, i.e. craigslist (there is a personal ad for just about every type of sexual or relationship desire you can imagine. I mean, guys and gals post ads wanting someone to piss on/in them, so it seems likely that someone out there is into small penises, or at least feels neutral about them.

Next suggestion: Find a bisexual woman! I personally find the idea of being with a man with a small penis very sexy (and not only cause I think it would feel better). I'm bisexual, and I appreciate men and women and I'm not really concerned with what someone's genitals are like. This is not to say that you shouldn't want to feel like a man or anything like that. But if you found a lady who also liked ladies, she probably wouldn't have "strict" standards for penis size if she would also date those who don't even have one.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And ND, this is going to be harsh, but you do realize that you come on here and infuse every thread with negativity... if you really believe there are no answers, why come on here at all? What's the point? You are definitely the most hardened of the posters, and it seems like you're trying to bring others down with you.

Dying inside said he wants help, he's looking for help and insight, not a "we might as well kill ourselves" attitude.

The fact is, there ARE women out there who would want to be with each of you, who would find you sexy and loveee having sex with you! But you don't want to hear this. You hate yourself and you've given up and don't want to hear what anyone else has to say.

All I can say, dying inside, is that it is terribly scary and hard to open yourself up to someone, to let someone see you (physically and emotionally), and to let them really love you. That is much, much harder than closing yourself off. But it's so worth it, and you deserve it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sam, ND has been really trying for months. He has been offering support and insights to other posters as well during this time. The negative thinking is a very difficult thing to break. There are ups and downs too. This is clearly a down time. I don't want him to feel any more discouraged than he already is. I also think it's great that the men can talk with one another about this. It's a support group and gives them a voice.

I suppose I can be annoying when I am saying the same things over and over again. I don't mean to be. I am really sorry that women have said hurtful things which have hurt you all of you. I wish the voice of those who are cruel didn't have to outweigh the voice of someone such as myself, though. The behavior of these women reflects a lack of maturity and sensitivity. Why value their opinions so much?

Dyinginside, I spent all of my school years being afraid of rejection as well. Men never responded to me, but maybe also I didn't give myself the chance. They mocked me as well, but my lack of confidence made me an easy target too. I was called a dog etc. etc. I know it doesn't feel good. One wants to be attractive to the opposite sex. Believing in yourself and valuing yourself really does help. Maybe start out by trying to form some friendships and see where that takes you.

I'm heterosexual, btw, Sam.

Edited by IrmaJean
Link to comment
Share on other sites

ND, I agree there is an overall self loathing but I think that it is mainly brought on as a form of self pity. I think we hate ourselves, not for being small, but for not being able to deal with it. From what i have read, there are many men out there who are small but still live normal lives. Their problems end with embarrasment but to not alter their lives. I think the rest of us suffer from too much pride. As much as we can hate ourselves, we also are in love with ourselves and it is this love that prevents us from opening up to people... not sure if that makes sense to you but it is something I have been thinking about. Most of the time I do like myself, I am a good person, but this mental block prevents me from being happy. I am not sure if the mental block is purely based on size alone or if there is something deeper, maybe a childhood experience that has compounded the problem.

Sam, thanks for the suggestions and support. I took your advice and went onto craigslist but there were no matches in my area. I do think that a website relating to women who like smaller men would be a fantastic way for me to try and overcome my fear. I really do believe that having it out in the open first while still remaining anonymous is a comfortable and good way to approach the problem.

I have been on web dating sites before and am quite good at chatting to women, but there is always going to be a time when you meet or discuss past relations, sex etc and I run away before it can get to that point...

I am virtually a virgin, having had sex only once and that was over 10 years ago, and most women are sceptical of a 32 year old virgin especially when it is not for religious reasons. I know that I would think damaged goods if the shoe was on the other foot. I know this sounds bad as I am asking or hoping for a women to give me a chance but would have the same initial thoughts as the women i fear.

I know it is a hard concept for others who are not going through it to grasp... the answer seems easy, Why should you care about the type of people who would try and humiliate you? But it is a very real and debilitating thought or rather constant state of mind for me. There is not a moment that I am not anxious and it is always on my mind.

ND, I do appreciate all the comments, good or bad. I need to get a real perspective on the problem and see if my thoughts/feelings are the same as yours and others or where they might differ. I am hoping that understanding the issues we are facing will help me and maybe others too. I do feel better than yesterday, mainly for just getting it off my chest but also from everyones generous support so far. The more comfortable I become chatting about having a small penis, the more chance I will have of seeking either professional help or taking the plunge and meeting someone.

I have no doubt that it is a long hard road and I will feel like killing myself on many days, but I just have to have hope or there really is no point in living.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

OK, to be supportive:

The cure is:

1. We have to accept ourselves for who we are, good and bad. This will allow you to go out date and have sex.

2. During and after sex we have to accept the humiliation that will follow after the woman tells her friends, and your friends that you are small. The majority of women who you will have sex with wont care and wont tell. But one will. So if you intend to date and participate in life, then your secret will get out.

The only answer to the 2nd part of this problem is in how you handle the humiliation. You have to accept it as part of your life and keep taking the humiliation, or you have to develop such a thick skin that you can ignore peoples thoughts, feelings, and comments about size.

I agree with you Sam, size matters much more to us small men than it does to most women. The trick is how do we deal with our own self hate. Then the humiliation put on us by others. Glib comments along the lines of "those people are garbage" are true, but once you are outed the damage to your life is permanent and ongoing.

It is possible to talk back to your negative thoughts about your size, and change your view of yourself. This is the self acceptance and self love phase. The best tool for doing this is to learn about CBT. The trouble I have with this part is when I look at, touch, or hold my penis I get this overwhelming self hate, I can change how I think about my size, but I cant change the reality of my size. Which feels like I am only conning myself. A mind trick, self delusion. The Emperor and his new clothes.

2nd Part: I have no idea how to deal with the humiliation from myself, women and peers. from what I have gathered on this board the only way to deal with humiliation and ridicule is accept it as part of the life you will have.

This is where all this self help falls apart for me. How do you fight your own self hate, while at the same time being ridiculed, then ignore outside influence to the point of being able to get a spontaneous erection. Is that strenght of mind or ignorant insanity.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The trouble I have with this part is when I look at, touch, or hold my penis I get this overwhelming self hate, I can change how I think about my size, but I cant change the reality of my size. Which feels like I am only conning myself. A mind trick, self delusion.

Maybe it doesn't quite work for you because it doesn't get to the root of your difficulties with this, ND. The root being your shame and how you have attached this one part of yourself and your judgments of it to your sense of self-worth. In order to get to that, you have to come to understand why... on a deeper level...this makes you hate yourself. Have we been here before with this?

2nd Part: I have no idea how to deal with the humiliation from myself, women and peers. from what I have gathered on this board the only way to deal with humiliation and ridicule is accept it as part of the life you will have.

I don't think that is true. It is true that you can't control the actions and feelings of others. But you can empower yourself to not elicit this type of response by presenting yourself in a more confident manner. Did you, by chance, read David's post about his friend with a 3.5 inch penis? It's in the New Members area.

This is where all this self help falls apart for me. How do you fight your own self hate,
By coming to understand where it comes from and then discovering that its roots are based on false truths. Once you pry the untruths from your psyche, there will be more space for new and healthier truths.
while at the same time being ridiculed
This will happen less as you come to believe in yourself. Also, as your confidence grows, any ridicule by others will hold less weight because you will know it is based on untruths. For me, the reason why teasing and ridicule from others hurt so very much was because I believed it to be the truth. They were saying what I'd always felt and I was being forced to look at my own feelings about myself.
then ignore outside influence to the point of being able to get a spontaneous erection. Is that strenght of mind or ignorant insanity.
Find a caring woman, ND. Find one who loves and appreciates you. Once you allow yourself to feel that...spontaneous erections will tend to follow. Edited by IrmaJean
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Have we been here before with this?

Yes, and I still dont understand what you are getting at. My penis is small, because I am small, others have humililated me, I hate my penis because of that. I hate my penis because it is the root problem of all my self defeating thoughts and actions which have ruined my life.

But you can empower yourself to not elicit this type of response by presenting yourself in a more confident manner.

Waving my penis around with confidence will have no impact on a womens impression of my size. Confident or unconfident my penis size remains the same.

its roots are based on false truths

The root truth is my penis is small. I cant pretend otherwise. Even if I could others see it as small.

any ridicule by others will hold less weight because you will know it is based on untruths.

Again the truth is Im small. This is my biggest problem with all this. I get ridiculed for being small, because I AM SMALL. The ridicule hurts because it is based on fact.

Find a caring woman, ND. Find one who loves and appreciates you. Once you allow yourself to feel that...spontaneous erections will tend to follow.

When dating sex usually comes first before love.

Again Irma, thanks for your efforts, but we are all just going round and round in circles, the same arguments and the same answers, with the same results.

four or five months later I still feel that my life is not and cannot be a life I want to live.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest ASchwartz

ND and Recluse,

I do not agree with the statement that sex comes before love when dating. In fact, engaging in sexual relations too soon prevents emotions from developing. I am not the only therapist or professional who has noted that modern day attitudes towards sex are a problem because the sex happens too fast and prevents intimacy, real intimacy.

There are still plenty of men and women who do not want to just hop into bed when they start dating. Most people who are serious want time to get to know one another. The sexual part of things comes while the relationship is maturing. Maybe this is why you have suffered such ridicule: you did not know the women you were with and you did not know their attitudes or even if they cared about you or not.

Most women, real women, are not concerned about penis size, as was pointed out in the new members forum yesterday. They want a man who is loving, caring and passionate. Women do not think about sex the same way that men do. Only us men are convinced that men and women think the same about sex. Yes, there are always exceptions and there are some women who care about size. But, that is the reason for dating: two people exploring whether or not they are right for one another. There are lots and lots of women who do not care one iota about penis size.

Allan

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think that maybe you are right, ND, that we have been having the same discussions over and over again. It's really wonderful that you guys can talk about your feelings around this with others who share the same difficulties. It's always nice to be heard and have a place to go where it is safe to express feelings. The problem being, though, is that it seems that you guys can feed off of each others negative energy and I don't think that serves anyone. It becomes a place to gripe about your situation. What I'd really like to see is all of you to try and move forward and find ways to help yourself.

I was reading an article recently. It speaks of the anxiety around this and it sounds very much like what I have heard described on these boards time and time again. There is anxiety around the genitals being observed. So perhaps then this perceived "defect" causes a tremendous amount of distress which doesn't match any actual defect. There are accompanying depressive episodes, violent behaviors, social and occupational dysfunctions and social isolation. It speaks of fears of being mocked and scrutinized and of insufficient social skills. It also mentions that the person who is suffering believes the only way to attain happiness is to change the perceived body defect.

Does this sound familiar guys? If any of this evokes a strong response in any of you this more than likely means that something is there in this. I am bringing this to light as a suggestion of something to consider. I understand how difficult and painful it can be to look at oneself, but sometimes in the very center of one's deepest pain is where the answers lie. As always, I am in your corner.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

addHi Irma,

I think all of us can tick at least 5,6, or 7 of those behavours, I also agree with the fact that I am problably emotionally immature in some ways, its just one more of my many weakness's.

I recognise and understand that our size has little to do with female sexual satisfaction or desire, or has little effect on successful relationship building. The absolute conviction that size cannot satisfy a woman, I believe is wrong. Im ok with that part of this problem. Others here are not, and still convinced that small precludes them from a relationship. This is their reason for not engaging with women. I am over that bit.

Where I am stuck at the moment is my own reaction to my penis. It is my own negative reaction to my penis that undermines any good thoughts or actions I take, resulting in the usual negative whining, which as you know, I like to indulge in quite often. I have to find a solution to this self hate which I direct at my penis. Today I have been looking on forums where people are dealing with the effects of severe facial disfigurement, as I think these people are having to get over a very particular aspect of this problem that applys to me. ie self hatred directed or blamed on a real phsyical deformity.

The more I break this problem down into component parts, the more work I find for myself, the hole just seems to get deeper and deeper which then leads to frustation and my whining.

David O's recent story is the mindset goal of all of us, but to me it just seems to be another "Glass half full, Vs glass half empty" version. Obviously the answer to 99% of mental health problems is just to think differently, a different perspective. But a sound perspective has to be based on real facts, expeirences etc. not on me just blindly choosing to believe that elephants can fly. That was the delusion I was referrring to.

Edited by nearlydead
added
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Allan, I completely agree with ND and Recluse thats sex comes before love when dating. I realise that for most people this is not the case, but when all your anxiety and fear rests on sexual relations you have no choice but to place huge emphasis on the physical.

It is not necessarily the physical act itself, but rather successfully completing it without humiliation which in my mind seems almost impossible and not worth the risk... absurd I know, but that is what I feel even though I know it has no real substance.

You mention that most women are not concerned with penis size. I would tend to agree, but the issue does not lie with women but rather an issue with myself and how inadequate I just am.

I realise you are trying to help and talking it over does have positive aspects, but the suggestion to rather concentrate on the emotional "getting to know you" aspect of a relationship does not negate the very real risks (in my mind) of being humiliated.

The fact of the matter is that if we are not prepared to accept humiliation we will never live semi-normal lives and the pure thought of humilation to me makes me want to cringe up and die. Forget the thought of humiliation with a potential woman, but even the thought of sharing my problems with my family is unbearable... even though I know they would be more than supportive. At this stage I have a certain control of how inadequate I feel and when I feel it. I can choose not to leave the house and not to contact friends. If I let my shame out into the open, all my control lost and in the hands of others and most people do not understand the gravity of the problem.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is anxiety around the genitals being observed. So perhaps then this perceived "defect" causes a tremendous amount of distress which doesn't match any actual defect. There are accompanying depressive episodes, violent behaviors, social and occupational dysfunctions and social isolation. It speaks of fears of being mocked and scrutinized and of insufficient social skills. It also mentions that the person who is suffering believes the only way to attain happiness is to change the perceived body defect.

Hi Irma, this explains the problem for me quite well. The thought of even having an average size would make me want to wonder the streets and show everyone... i think I would become a flasher... haha

Obviously there would be a lot more to consider if that was to be the problem solver i.e. rebuilding self confidence, emotional maturity, drinking (for me) and many other things. All the gradual effects/changes the distress has caused in our lives.

But the "average size option" is not an option. There is nothing that can be done medically at this stage to change my appearance.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

David O's recent story is the mindset goal of all of us, but to me it just seems to be another "Glass half full, Vs glass half empty" version. Obviously the answer to 99% of mental health problems is just to think differently, a different perspective. But a sound perspective has to be based on real facts, expeirences etc. not on me just blindly choosing to believe that elephants can fly. That was the delusion I was referrring to.
There was an article in a journal of cultural anthropology in which a small tribe in the Republic of Guinea saw anything linear as a circle, and so even being shown straight 2-4 inch lines and being asked to reproduce them resulted in circles, no matter how many times they were asked to draw it, a circle was the result. The fact of the matter was that the line was straight: their consistent and repeated rendition of it was that it was circular.

ND, you're right tho... it is a half empty vs. half full perspective. I have not ventured into the SPS forum, but have read nearly every post and realized, as the discussions progressed, that for many struggling with issues surrounding a small penis, the stage for seeing, thinking or knowing differently is not there or has not been set. Let me explain. One of the first things I look at when seeing people in my office is where they are in the change process:

  • Precontemplation (no intention to take action in the next six months)
  • Contemplation (intends to take action in the next six months)
  • Preparation (intends to take action in the next 30 days with some behavioral steps in this direction)
  • Action (has changed overt behavior for less than six months)
  • Maintenance (has changed behavior for more than six months)
  • Termination (behavior will never return, there is confidence that there will be no relapse)

Husbands "forced" into couples therapy by their wives are at stage 1, children refusing treatment or to be evaluated are also at stage 1, an alcoholic who has hit bottom and has determined he needs to make life changes or die has moved to stage 2-3, a client who is in for there 10th session and who has completed all of the homework between sessions is at stage 4, and clients who have left treatment but follow and implement what they learned are at stages 5-6.

One can be in the precontemplation stage for weeks, months, years, decades or even half a century, but once they hit stage 2-3, there is movement. For some it's slow but deliberate, for others rapid... but it all depends on where you are on the continuum.

Because much of the responses on the SPS section are at the precontemplation stage, I've strayed from here, as have others who might have much insight and wisdom to share. Counterintuitive, conflicting or contradictory views are routinely discounted and dismissed, as such other voices have been silenced.

I speak from experience and not just some ivory theoretical tower. My first 18 years of existence exceeds the experiences of most humans. I was an abandoned child in Mexico, the 1st 14 years were lived under a brutal dictatorship where I was beaten, tortured, sexually molested and abused 1000's of times. I saw families agonize as they helplessly watched their children or each other suffer, and we were equally pained to watch them be beaten raped or shot.

We moved to the US illegally and now we had different troubles. We were migrant workers, working 14 hour days in 110-115 degree weather. The men and boys of towns we worked in often chased us in pickups to beat us with sticks, chains, rocks or fists and feet. Immigration would pick us up and ship us not just to Mexico, but to the southern tip or farther down, so we would have to now walk back (thousands of miles) to our home to start our trek to the US again. It seemed like a nightmare that would never end. And to this day I have complex PTSD.

I return to my family now, many carry the scars (both psychological and with physical evidence of beatings and torture-- I carry both) and are immobilized by the memories and experiences, unable to see positive anywhere, seeing a wasted life or feeling beaten. Some of carry the scars, but are not immobilized by them.

Same reality, different approach to life.

I don't say this to evoke pity or compassion for my experience, it is only to highlight the "positive delusion (to use your words from the other thread)" under which I experience life.

If I had to go back, I would change nothing... these experiences are now the very life blood of my character, and they are what allow me to do what I do for a living.

I say all of this with great compassion, sensitivity and empathy, and not as a point of debate, or to claim some sort of false and shameless superiority, or to dismiss your experience (although it is designed to challenge it). In the end, we all pick our poison and our greatest pains usually come at our own hand.

David

Link to comment
Share on other sites

David,

Although I see the point to your post, the final statement really bugs me.

"In the end, we all pick our poison and our greatest pains usually come at our own hand."

There was no booklet for me choose my size before being born! This is not a "well if you get handed lemons, make lemonade" situation.

It is not a choice to have these feelings. They are cultivated from years and years of feeling ashamed. If it was an overnight sensation I would agree, but it is a gradual emotional decline of bad experiences from an early age that eventually forms a dysfunctional personality

Nobody would ask to feel like this!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Recluse,

Sorry but I think your post basically states that you do have social issues. Choosing to find entertainment away from social events because you might get hit on is not healthy. It is a downward spiral I am sorry to say. I had a hectic social life and was generally the life of the party, but it faded away due to the same reasons you expressed.

I run my own company, and I do not have any issue dealing with people while in "work mode" it is only when it becomes a personal/emotional/sexual that it is an issue.

Having social issues does not mean that you are not good with people and cannot chat to women, but rather that you avoid the 90% of enjoyment for the 10% of anxiety when it comes to your emotions... stats may be off... haha, but i get it!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...