Change in Personality Traits within a day

[Lou2000]

I am new. My wife suffers from something I have not been able to adequately describe to others or to our doctor. She is finally aware of this problem, but still cannot control it. She has days where her personality actually changes drastically. It is usually at night. Actually it is always after 5 pm or so. I used to happen when she had a drink, but even halting that, she still has these changes. We have noticed it happens when she is around her family at night. It doesnt happen every night - in fact, since we and I have been watch-guarding this, she has fewer episodes. I am at a loss. I dont know what it is. I can't describe it well enough to say that her behavior changes. She is crude, unkind, looks drunk even if she has not been drinking. And when she finally goes to sleep, even when not drinking, she passes out - and I mean like she just downed a half quart of scotch. Does anyone know of such a disorder? I am hoping someone knows about this... at one point I thought it might be alcohol induced "schizophrenia" for lack of a better descriptor... but it happens even without alcohol.

[pattidawn]

It is common to "switch" (change behaviors) at certain times and around certain people, in this case evening and family. If the abuse happened at night as is often the case, evening becomes a "trigger", because it stirs memories even if they are suppressed that suggest danger.

If she feels unsafe or threatened, the part created to deal with these situations will take body time, without her control.

You may notice that certain things on TV may cause an unexpected change in behavior. It is important to identify things that trigger a change and eliminate them whenever and as much as possible, and make all effort to be reassuring and make her feel safe.

Note; I am not a professional, but I had DID for 38 yrs and have come through it completely and have been well for 13 yrs. You may be encouraged by my testimony which can be read at www.pattidawn.com

Be Blessed, there is hope!

[pattidawn]

Forgive me, I am new to this site also. I found this site by putting Dissociative Identity Disorder in the search because I am helping a person with DID to understand it.

It seemed to me that DID was likely the problem with your wife, although there are other possibilities. A heads up on DID is to your advantage, as patients often go so many years with wrong diagnosis which delays proper treatment. That is a diagnose only a professional is qualified to test for and diagnose but that's where I'd start.

Be encouraged, I'm living proof there is a light at the end of the tunnel. Identifying the problem is definitely the first step.

If you wish you can contact me through my website,

[Lou2000]

Thank you for responding... what I want to clarify is that this is not just a change around certain people to different manners of sharing their company - this is a CHANGE, the same kind of change each time - and once it starts, it does NOT end until she passes out for the evening - with or without drinking, and even if she awakens in the middle of the night, she is still "changed" - it is NOT until the morning that she returns to "normal" or the HEALTHY personality... and it is MORE than a mood change... it is DRMATIC. It is a CHANGE in her personality - what matters, what does not matter, behavior, propriety... a sever and scary change... We have been married for over 20 years. In the beginning, even dating, I noticed something about her evening behavior, and was simply baffled by it. But as we lived together for 2 years, then married, I noticed that anywhere between 2 and 4 times a week this would happen. And ALWAYS at night. And back then, MOSTLY with a drink or two. She is FAR from alcohol dependent as she now only drinks when we go out for dinner at a restaurant - but even then, the 2nd beverage puts her at risk. But I could be driving home from work, call her on the phone, and she'd be perfectly fine. I'd get home in less than 45 minuntes, and she'd be "changed" without touching a drop - we since nicknamed it "gooney" since we had no idea WHAT to call it and "F**ked Up" was a bit TOO harsh. I know that her family did and still does have their "martini" time every evening, usually 2 or 3 drinks before and with dinner. I know my wife (J hereforward) also drank with them. And it seems even without the drink, this transformation can STILL happen... and we have talked about her relationship with Mom and Dad - while good, was usually awkward after their first evening drinks. Mom is a GREAT lady, but not after 2 drinks - gets kind of caustic. Dad, great guys as well, gets MORE PLEASANT when he hits #2 or #3 in the evening - perhaps it was his way of dealing with MOM's nastiier self when she drank. And J's MOM came from a family with several alcoholics, including her dad and one sister. Maybe J's behavior at night is her "protection" against what she un- or consciously recalls from growing up... I just want to help her because it is beginning to wear and tear at our relationship - from embarrassment around people (lesser discomfort to me, although still difficult) to how it affects her with our son, with me and with our family life after 5 p.m. - what is the treatment for this? Is it just counseling? Is there medication? We have noticed that when she takes her evening allergy pill (Allegra D) early enough, she has less chance of this happening... now that could just be perceived or actual, I don't know... any advice would be appreciated... and I will check your website... thanks!

It is common to "switch" (change behaviors) at certain times and around certain people, in this case evening and family. If the abuse happened at night as is often the case, evening becomes a "trigger", because it stirs memories even if they are suppressed that suggest danger.

If she feels unsafe or threatened, the part created to deal with these situations will take body time, without her control.

You may notice that certain things on TV may cause an unexpected change in behavior. It is important to identify things that trigger a change and eliminate them whenever and as much as possible, and make all effort to be reassuring and make her feel safe.

Note; I am not a professional, but I had DID for 38 yrs and have come through it completely and have been well for 13 yrs. You may be encouraged by my testimony which can be read at www.pattidawn.com

Be Blessed, there is hope!

[Guest ASchwartz]

Hi Lou 2000 and Pattidawn and welcome to our community,

Lou, it is possible that your wife is suffering from Dissociative Identity Disorder. However, the fact that she drinks complicates the picture. What I mean is that she drinks because of stress and the alcohol brings on the DID or the DID causes her to drink. You are very certain that there are times when she does not drink but the problem with the Dissociative Disorders is that people often do not remember what they were doing when in a dissociative state.

In my opinion, the first thing your wife needs to do is stop drinking. Alcohol only complicates her psychological problems whatever her diagnosis may be.

Second, and in my opinion, she should be seen by a Neuropsychiatrist so that she can be examined and tested to rule out any neurological disorders and that is always possible.

Third, if she gets clearance that there is no neurological disorder then it is time for a psychiatrist or psychologist in order to start treatment and possible medication.

If there is nothing neurological or medical wrong then your wife's problems fall into the psychological. What you need to understand is that, if she has a Dissociative Disorder that means she experienced terrible and ongoing trauma as a child. The trauma may have been continuing sexual abuse, physical abuse or something else, powerful and terrible.

Is your wife willing to go for help?

Can you tell us more about yourself and how you cope with this situation?

Allan

[pattidawn]

Hello Allen and thanks for the welcome. When I read Lou's response I thought it didn't really ring true of MPD, but that is only one form of DID. I said to my husband as I was reading his reply that I think she needs an MRI and some neuropsychological testing, I thought an organic cause should definitely be ruled out, I agree with you completely.

There is one possibility to consider, but not pointing a finger or making accusations. She was raised in an alcoholic home, drinks were a daily beverage and even if it's 2-3, if you need it every day it is alcoholism. That is neither here nor there.

There is a psychiatric disorder that is actually caused by an allergic reaction to alcohol. Lou is adamant that his wife is 'FAR" from alcohol dependent BUT....many alcoholics hide it. It is only a possibility that she is hiding her use of alcohol and that the problem is alcohol induced. Just a possibility not an accusation.. This disorder that happens as a result of an inability to tolerate even a small amount of alcohol is a possibility.

Again...not accusing or pointing the finger, just looking at possibilities.

[kittenhugs]

Welcome to the forum! It must be difficult for you to see your loved one go though such dramatic transformations. If I were you I would get some outside help and try to pin down the cause for her behavior. Hopefully once you know the cause it can be treated and overcome. Try to think positive and not worry. How do you handle this stress?

[Lou2000]

Thank you Patti, Allan and "Hugs" for your replies. There are several things for me to discuss, so I guess this will be a longer post.

J and I have known each other since 1980... friends first, dating, living together and then marriage. She is an educated person, graduate work in education and an MBA. She is otherwise than her problem, a fairly well functioning person - although like us all, she has her faults - and so do I...

In the earlier days of our relationship, her problem at least appeared to be ALWAYS associated with drinking. It wasn't until probably the early 90s that I finally connected that when she did not drink, the liklihood - probability if you will - declined dramatically. However, I noticed that drinking or not, when she was around her family, Mom and Dad, and sometime Brother and his wife, that she would change. It took she and I a lot of arguing, at first while she was affected, until I realized that did nothing at all... then it would be the following morning. It took time, but now in the a.m. the day after, she DOES realize that it happened to her the night before. It took a lot, but she actually now realized post event that she did get - as we call it - gooney. Now, I can tell the tell-tale signs of its onset. And if I challenge or ask her how she is feeling, she will tell me fine, but I can tell when it is happening. I do want to point out that there are times around her folks when she DOES NOT get affected - but that has only been in perhaps the last 10 years or so - which is progress of a sort. I also want to tell you that I know also for a fact that this happens without drinking at all - because there have been occasions where she is literally NOT out of my sight, and it happens anyway - case in point, the night I joined this site, it happened... and I was with her all night... it happens mostly around her family, and sometimes around friends and sometimes just around US, she and I. The frequency is down considerably, because she now accpets that this happens to her. That took a long time and a lot of struggle and pain, but for the last 10 years, she has known.

As for how I deal with it... I hate to admit it buy unless I am very angry the next day - which has been what I started doing some time back (right or wrong, I don't know, but it helped) - she would pass it off and deny it happened. She even now apologizes about it and when I ask "why" did it happen, she says she doesn't know... most of the time... but sometimes she connects that it was because of something related to her growing up. I honestly believe it was her way of coping with her mother's drinking and becoming "nasty" at night. And abuse comes in all shapes, sizes and flavors... her mom does not get physically abusive, she just says things she would NEVER say sober. In fact, Mom has even denied having said some of the things when confronted post event. It is amazing to me that people who are so sweet, honest, fair, direct when they are sober, can become MEAN when they drink. But I do think J found that with or without alcohol, "transforming" to this alter personality kept her safer in those evening environments when mom got a nasty edge and dad just got happier and more dismissive and tolerant of mom's behavior.

I think it was her safety zone - change, be "someone else" and then you don't have to hold yourself accountable for not only what you did, but what you saw and/or experienced. And J and I have talked about that. The abuse was most likely Mom telling J or saying things to her that she wouldn't say sober; perhaps even things that she didn't herself actually truly believe, but we all know that drunk or not, we sometimes believe we "know" or understand life based on limited information, a whole lot more than we really do - and would never voice those (pardon me) half-assed ideas or observations when clear minded and sober. At least not in the same manner, or with the same edge. Her Mom has even said things to me when she has been drinking that have slack-jawed me... and then the next day talk to me about the same or related subjects in a manner that is civil, kind, loving, caring... scary and remarkable at the same time.

Not to get too far afield here, but J and I saw a movie, something in the last 10-15 years or so, where a woman had some disorder where if she drank, even one drink, she became completely different - it happend to be more gregarious, almost malignantly so, and sexual... they named the disorder either "something intoxication" or "intoxication something" - I cannot recall it, but at the time we both, J and I, thought about how alcohol can affect her. Does anyone know of this disorder and is it DID subclass?

I appreciate all your help and comments... I wish I had done this years ago... I feel very alone in this, because I can't and won't talk to friends or family about it. But I must add this, our son, when he got to be in his mid-teens, starting asking "What was wrong with mom last night?" - Which was one of the points that help J begin to admit to herself and me that she had a problem... and again, with and without alcohol. And to that point again, I think as someone said as well, the drink - the activity of drinking - summons up the personality defense, and that is when the change happens, whether booze hits the lips or not... that explanation is mostly for when she is around her family... and as for when it happens with just us, there must be something of an evening that trips that same switch... we have discovered if she talks to her mom on the phone anytime after 4-5 p.m. at night, the probablity of the CHANGE goes up dramatically...

Well, I didnt mean to ramble or get too free-associative here, I hope this makes some coherent sense in total. Thanks again everyone...

LOU

[Mark]

What drinking does to people is disinhibit them. The alcohol acts on the brain - on a neurotransmitter widely distributed through the brain called GABA, which acts as a sort of generalized breaking system. When you drink, you stimulate (agonize) GABA, and that has the effect of slamming the breaks on - which causes the impaired reaction time associated with intoxication. It's a more complicated picture than that - there are other effects happening too - but more or less what happens is parts of the brain start to go to sleep when you drink, and as these parts go down - like the frontal brain which is the seat of judgement and attention - people start doing things that they normally wouldn't do. So it is fairly normal for people to have a personality change when they drink or do other drugs that have a similar effect to alcohol.

I agree with Allan that the first thing to do is to have your wife get completely sober for a while. If it is alcohol, keep in mind that she may be drinking in a hidden manner (? this sort of thing has been known to happen), and you may not even be aware of the drinking she's doing. Or it may be some other drug she is taking - prescribed by a physician or a street drug. You might even want to do some drug or alcohol testing - you can purchase home breath tests and pee tests at the drug store - if you both think it will be helpful. It isn't possible to have a good picture of what is actually going on so long as there is the possibility that she is using some sort of drug or medicine that is affecting her brain and behavior.

Stuff like dissociation and multiple personality is possible of course, but statistically, there is a whole lot more drug abuse out there than DID, so I'd think about starting with that.

Mark

[Lou2000]

Thanks Mark - just a bit about me... while I work in business now, my training was in Biochemistry (before the MBA) and I did 2 years toward my doctorate in Biochem before leaving to support a family... so I understand some of the more chemical, physiological and even some of the neurological basises of general activity and some, not much, about behavioral. Not to spout off too much because what was once my VOCATION is at best a distant avocation and I am years and years removed from my training or current knowledge base... anyway, J and I spend almost ALL our time together. I can tell you 99+6-9s percent she is not doing ANY street drugs. In her college and her 20s she did stuff - as I did as well - but nothing now. This is what is so befuddling to me. And as for alcohol, she rarely drinks anymore - and only if we go out to dinner. We have a rule - she can have ONE drink, nurse it, and that's it. Sometimes she is ok, sometimes it just doesnt work and she changes. Last night we went to dinner and she had ONE drink and STAYED TOTALLY OK. But here is the baffling part - it HAPPENS WITHOUT DRINKING. We can go to her folks house, and unless I make a DRMATIC POINT of her not getting goofed-up by being with them, we can go there, she can DRINK NOTHING - absolutely NOTHING - and just by being around them, CHANGE. It is perhaps to an outside, objective observer a fascinating thing to see happen - but to me it is hell. It is like losing your partner for the evening, and she won't be back until tomorrow morning although you will be with her until then. Where it used to happen even at home 2 to 4 times a week, now it may only happen once a month or even once every 6 weeks - but it is because we talk about it. And the MOST unlikely thing - at least to me - is that when she is conscious of the possibility of it happening (like visiting the folks in the evening), she can ACTUALLY control it from happening... this is some kind of intoxication that it not necessarily alchol induced... I want to know more about this and what kind of treatments are available - and while I am not an expert by any stretch of the imagination on alcoholism, I do understand that dependency of any kind qualifies as some level of alcoholism... but she is SOBER almost all the time, and when she does drink, it is 1 or maybe 2 beverages - and the risk of the change occurring goes up exponentially... what concerns me is that it happens WITHOUT alcohol... and while repeating myself, it can happen at home - lower probability; and it can happen with her folks - a higher probability... but it ONLY happens at night - NEVER during the day. NEVER during the day - it is an evening phenomenon... so there are no nonscript drugs, and I could put a meter on her forehead that showed ANY alcohol intake at all to guarantee she did not "sneak a drink" - and it is still possible, as I have witnessed again and again, without the influence of ethanol. I want to understand this, and I would like to know if other cases like this exist... and I would really like to know the name or names of what this might be as this would greatly help me and her in seeking medical/psych assistance. thanks! Lou

[Lou2000]

Sorry to go back to back on this...

But after rereading my post, I just wanted to make sure I communicated this point without any equivocation... this happens:

a. in the evening

b. with alcohol more likely - but she RARELY drinks anymore because we have talked about the risk of the "change"

c. it happens MORE NOW without alcohol - even though only several times a year, it happens EVEN WITHOUT ALCOHOL

d. happens more likely if she is with her family in or into the evening (holidays are always scary as we spend part of the day, and then part of the night)

e. it rarely happens at home - but still can, and AGAIN... only in the evening

f. to (e) above - we even have a rule that she should probably NOT talk (i.e., on the phone) to her MOM (as this is the more likely trigger) past 4 p.m. as we noticed the change can then follow, even WITHOUT alcohol

g. she, of her own volition, won't call either of her folks after 5-6 p.m. because she knows they are into their "tini time" and neither of them are their usual, normal, healthy and lovable selves...

thanks... LOU

[pattidawn]

Dear Lou, I feel your frustration. It is baffling. Personally I still tend to suspect a form of DID. When I was MPD, and I have been well since 1995, but one of my alter ego's was a carbon copy of my mother! Naturally her or things that reminded me of her would trigger a switch to that alter. This is a possibility, and all we can do here is offer possible things to explore and listen to you and communicate with you.

Here's a harmless suggestion. Ask her to journal when she's "gooney" Then she can read her own thoughts and feelings her own self in her own words, a bit of self discovery. If this is DID she will probably realize it herself because chances are how she feels about "whatever" will differ greatly from how she feels when she's herself. It just may reveal something. It may not, but it's worth a try.

By the way, I saw that movie, Kim Bassinger and Alec Baldwin. That's exactly what made me think of that.

[pattidawn]

Lou, I think you seem to have a pretty secure knowledge of your wife's "personality" If you believe she is sober when she says she is, she probably is. My gut instinct is not that she's drinking and hiding it. My gut instinct is that this is not due to alcohol. You know that, that's why you keep reiterating that it happens when she's not drinking, and being around mom and evening time seem to be greater factors then alcohol. Chances go up with alcohol, makes sense to me, but chances go up when with family and evening hours also.

I don't think your wife is a closet drunk. That's just my opinion for what it's worth. I think that last post will cause you to feel angry and it is my hope that all post here are supportive and that you find this to be a kind place where people listen and make suggestions not accusations. I said myself "could she be drinking and you don't know" because you and I have both seen the movie where alcohol was the culprit to a drastic personality change however dramatized for sake of a good show I don't know. I don't know about this disorder but I believe it exist and it was worth a consideration. BUT...you seem pretty certain she is not hiding it so I tend to agree she probably isn't.

[Mark]

Lou,

If you are certain that it is not a drug or alcohol, then I think a very thorough neurological examination complete with brain scans that would find lesions and tumors that might be present, would be in order. Sometimes disinhibution is due to a brain problem such as a tumor or dementia. These things can start small and manifest in behavior in the manner you describe. Best to rule this possibility out as soon as possible, becuase if there is something neurological happening, you will want to know about it so that any treatment that is possible can be applied.

Mark

[Lou2000]

Thank you, everyone. I am not offended and yes, I believe this has been a kind place - direct and objective is more a need than pablum.

To some kind of lesion... since this has diminished greatly over the years, is it not more likley that there is no lesion or organic reason for the transformation? I would think a lesion would increase in its impact on behavior. Just a thought.

I dont think she has multiple personalities, as she does not take on a differen personna... perhaps I am too impacted and influenced by what we see on the TV and screen, but she is still J, not some other person who identifies herself as someone else. And while she is in the CHANGE, she will still tell me she is not "gooney" - that she is fine and tell me "What are you talking about, I'm fine" - until the next day when she KNOWS it happened and apologizes.

I just find it odd that there is nothing in the literature or research that describes this kind of "intoxicating kind of behavior" - and that the intoxication is not necessarily alcohol based, but condition and/or circumstantially based - and that it ONLY happens at night.

As far as a head scan, she does get migraines and probably within the last 10 years they did a scan to rule out organic causation. Nothing showed up. And yet the behavior, which was NOT the reason for the scan (it was for migraines) has diminished over those ten years. I keep thinking it is psychological and a diagnosis would be great, but I and she want to know more about this before we start discussing this with M.D.s and pyscho-therapists.