shame

[malign]

Mary, if you're not worth it, I'm not worth it.

I wanted to die, for a long time. I daydreamed about it. I put myself into places where it could happen.

In the end, I thought that whatever I wanted to kill wasn't worth the death of whatever good I might do in this world, no matter how small it might be.

Please, stay. There's so much good to be done. We need you.

[IrmaJean]

I agree with Malign, Mary. Please stay with us. We can all help one another. We all have something to offer. And we all need one another. We're in this thing together.

Mary, I hope you will keep talking with us. I'm sorry that you're sad and hurting.

BTW, Malign, the good you do is certainly not small. I would venture to say that your words have touched many. It's amazing what a difference small acts of kindness can make in the world.

[Guest ASchwartz]

Mary,

I also agree with malign and IrmaJean. You are worth it, we are All worth it. Though you are finding things very difficult now, we are here for you, believe in you and know you are worth it.

Allan

[notmary]

Dont you think that it is possible that someone is just too damaged. I think that this is me. I am not a whole person, i am a damaged person and the part of me that is damaged ... is dead... can not be fixed. what i know now about me cant be fixed. Right now I just want the pain to stop the memories to stop the fear to stop i dont care if i am ever happy again i just dont want to hurt

[Guest ASchwartz]

Hi Notmary,

To answer your question in short, "No," I do not think anyone is too damaged or is not a whole person. You may feel hopeless but that does not mean you are hopeless. You may not feel like you are a whole person but you are. I know you feel bad and I know you feel bad a lot of the time. But, life changes, things get better. It is important that we all hang on to hope. And we all need to be kinder...to our selves.

What do you think, Mary?

[notmary]

I think that my hope is gone. I think that when you have been treated like an object, like a nothing and shown over and over again that you have no power, no worth, and you are stuck in this place of hell it is impossible to even know how to be kind to yourself.

I have this loop that i running through my head almost continuously. It tells me what I am over and over again. I have tried drinking it away, drugging it away, eating it away nothing works. my therapist says i need to confront it and face it down, but i cant even do that because it is me

I am sad and tired and hurting and weak

[notmary]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Edited May 31, 2010 by notmary
it doesnt matter

[IrmaJean]

Mary, please don't hurt yourself. Treat yourself with gentle care and respect. You deserve kindness.

[Guest ASchwartz]

Notmary,

I see that you deleted your last post and I am sorry you did.

I want to point something out to you:

All of us are made up of many parts. Some of those parts we think of as being terrific and others as not so good or even bad. When someone wants to kill their self, they are wanting to kill the bad part. The problem with suicide is that you kill the good part, too.

You need to work on building up the good parts of yourself that you love or think of as good.

Allan:(

[finding my way]

I also talk often in terms of "parts," because my last therapy was "parts" therapy.... and for me, it was very effective. I'm no therapist myself, but it seems like an equally horrifying part of your abuse (as horrible as the sexual abuse) was being shut off. It was his strategy to shut you out from others so he could get away with it and you would not get rescued. Dear mary, that is so horrible! And it happened while you were developing your personality, and things were already way too alone for you. The whole dynamic of shame and just having to survive cemented the dynamic on the inside too, so in a sense, some part of you had to take on the same role as your abuser and shut you up. You did not know what else to do. Her trauma and her fright were way too much for you to handle and you had to survive. Do you see what I mean?

In parts therapy, the part of you that identified with your abuser in order to survive would need to be heard with compassion... she would need full expression of her concerns and why she felt she had to continue shaming and judging the part that experienced the trauma in order to survive. She needs to be brought into the light so to speak, and given help for finding new ways to do her job.... ways she can keep you going without having to follow his ways, and I am totally sure she would want to do that. What this is is a matter of understanding why your parts are performing the roles they have taken on and seeing how your system works.... gaining that insight can often lead to compassion, because you can then understand why they are so determined to do what they do, see how they are stuck, and what they might need for help.

This pain wants to get out, and the victim part of you wants to stop the constant repitition of her trauma.... she is pressing you to feel her pain and to hear her. It keeps going, though, because the frightened survivor part only gets more determined to shush her... she has her own panic that is very high. I think parts therapy would suggest addressing her needs first, the frightened survivor part, and to hear how hard she is working and to tell her you understand, and that you know it is very important to survive, and you appreciate what she has done to keep you alive. She may need to feel safe and cared for first before anything more can be done about how she is shaming and blocking the other part.

Dear mary, my heart is with you:o I only want to help. If this is too confusing, please just disregard. We care about you. Let us know how you are.

Edited May 31, 2010 by finding my way

[notmary]

I am reading and rereading your responses Allan and Finding. I am struggling to understand them but that is the story of my brain these days. I do recognize these separate parts inside of me. They seem to be completely separated from each other and battling for control. I think that I wil try to focus right now on my "good parts" but in all honesty I am struggling to find that part of me. I can't find parts of me that are good even though they must be there.

What you said about the part of me that took on the role of protector and is really similar to the man who hurt me, well it makes me sad. I need to think.

[finding my way]

well, who was it who gave you this idea that no part of you is good? That was your abuser's strategy to keep you down, keep you from fighting for yourself. You were so young, and you didn't have good role models or strong caregiver figures in your life to mirror good things to you. Your abuser is no longer present, but the abuse continues on the inside.

You don't have far to look for your goodness, mary. Who is it that loves? Who is it that reaches out for help that you need? Who is it that hurts when you are wronged? I know that it's so painful to recognize maybe, but she is good. She means no harm. Who is it that has compassion for her? She is good too.

[notmary]

It was a hard meeting with my therapist last evening. I think that I opened up my real self to a greater extent than ever before. Now I can add to my terror that she will be rid of me now that she is seeing what I am.

I think that the good parts that you mention are my "fake exterior." My core is not good. It is that ball of worthless shit that was doing those things with him. I want to be good, kind, loving, helpful, intelligent... and I fake it pretty well and many people might describe me that way. But I know that I am not these things. I am inside evil and bitter.

Today I will try to put up my exterior even though I am tired and sad and afraid. I am afraid that the longer I continue in therapy the harder it will be to put up this front. When people see me as I really am I will be left alone.

[finding my way]

Sometimes I wonder if what we do is match a very bad feeling with very bad words about ourselves or the world.

Therapy or meditation training or mind training can teach us to separate out our thoughts and feelings, because they really are different things.

You feel bad, mary. You hurt. That is real and present.

Those thoughts you are having about your hurt are not necessarily real at all. Drawing conclusions like that might "match" how awful you feel in intensity, but it doesn't make those conclusions true:o

(((((((((((hugs))))))))))) to your tired and sad and afraid.

[[[[[[[patience]]]]]]] with you while you are having upset thoughts

{{{{{{{{{{breathe}}}}}}}}} while you let the not real drift away......

We see you, mary, and you are our friend.

[Guest ASchwartz]

Hi Notmary,

I cannot help but ask why you have so much self hatred? There must be some way you believe you are supposed to be and are disapponted that you are not that way? Know what I mean???

Allan

[notmary]

My initial response to your question Allan, as to why I hate myself, was intense anger. I thought WTF, how could I not hate myself? I have "stamped around" this week not knowing how to respond. I feel like a damaged unlovable person. There was no one who loved me enough to protect me when I was a child and a teen and to me that means that I am flawed somehow. The best I seem able to do is work hard to try to copy others. Try to act the way I see others act so that people might love me. I know I know... this is my problem.

[notmary]

It is Sunday evening the worst night of the week. When I was little on sunday nights the man returned to my house for the week. i became his and did whatever he wanted and learned about how trash is treated ughhh how can i get rid of these memories.

[finding my way]

you can get rid of the power of those memories by forming a different opinion of yourself, one not based on his opinions or the neglect and abuse you received from others as a child. It is very hard work you are doing, mary, but it is easily true that you are loveable:o:o

[notmary]

Feeling sad and tired. Not sure how I have ended up like this without hope. Oh well just keep swimming

[notmary]

I am thinking that there is not much point in continuing this thread. The memories are vivid and horrible and the shame and embarassment are constant. The little girl in me is so damaged, angry, depressed, and afraid, and she seems to be the one in control of me. I apparently am not able to fight this battle. I am no good to my children, my husband, my friends, or my students. Thanks for letting me ramble and for the support but I can't be put together again.

[Symora]

Hi Notmary, I was thinking the same way today, but I know it's a lie I tell myself, something that feeds my negative feelings about myself. You have control over what happens from here on in. The past only has the power you give it, look towards the future and try to find meaning there. Fight for your kids, for you husband, for your mother, you cannot be replaced to them, you can't ... take comfort and find hope in their love for you Notmary...

[danni]

Mary,

your last post is the very reason that this thread should remain open!!!

The road to healing from childhood trauma is a long one and an incredibly hard one! There's peaks and valley's along the way.

we're here to hold your hand along that road. you're not alone. Many of us hear have gone down the same road. Let us walk with you and draw some strength from us when you find yourself in those times when it all feels like too much...

We care!!

[notmary]

It seems to be one long deep valley at this point. I am feeling so sad but sad isn't te right word. It is bigger and deeper than sad to the point that it is hard to breathe sometimes. Mix in there moments of complete anger and hatred and I am a real mess. I have also discovered that I don't leave my body anymore... when I am scared or hurting I stay in the present. Maybe this is progress... but it isn't pleasant. My therapist tells me that I am grieving for all of the things I haven't grieved for but especially for the litttle girl that I was who was brutalized. I don't know if this is was is happening.

[finding my way]

What your therapist says makes sense to me. You are now a strong enough container to feel. And right now it hurts very much what you are feeling:(. Disassociation is what a child or an adult does so they don't feel, so it is definitely progress that you are not breaking apart, but holding on.

Please don't think this is the end of the story and that this is all there will be for you. There are so many here that have been through horrible abuse. We are all at different stages of healing. Dear mary, we stand with you in your suffering, knowing a little of what it is like.

[notmary]

i feel like i am actually 8 years old again performing oral sex i hear the trees rustle and the birds and i am so scared but i do it anyway i know that if someone sees me they will know the truth about me i dont know what to do with this i wish i was dead so that i would be so scared and