how "to open a can of worms" during therapy?

[LaLa]

Tobe, this reminds me one "story" from my life. Maybe I've mentioned it before - I'm sorry if you remember, but... I'm going to write it:

At primary school, I was very... how to say... "unpopular"; many kids (and not only from our class, but from others, too) hated me, called me names and made fun of me... (I think it was mainly because I was unattractive, never wanted to wear modern clothes, and maybe also that I was "an A student"; moreover, and I was not very "social", I had about two close friends - but this is probably only the consequence...) And I was in love with a boy who was liked by everybody, very social, ... And after about 2-3 years, he got to know that I was in love with him. I denied it, but... he believed the others, not me. And he started to hate me, really very much hate me, he bullied me psychically, ... And this "taught me" that I'm unlikable, that I shall not love anybody because I'm not worth to love... Then, several years later, I learned that this was wrong. Now I know it, but... it seems I still have some little remnants of this "deep in my soul" and I need to somehow "re-live" a similar situation, I mean... to live, to feel that when I show my love to somebody who doesn't love me, he will not be angry or disgusted and will accept it.

It seems that your feeling of guilt is not related to a similar situation of rejection in your past (or is it?).

I have to go now, I'll continue later...

So, I'm back.

As you surely know, one of the main healing principle of therapy is that the pacient feels accepted with all his deepest (otherwise hidden) feelings, thoughts, weeknesses, problems, failures, fantasies, ... The main problem with this is, I suppose, that we all tend to ask questions like: "How could this help me, when I know that he accepts me only because it's his job to do so?" When we don't get rid of this idea, we, I think, cannot be really, deeply, healed. It's surely natural that it's so hard for us to get rid of this idea. But at the same time, it's sure that it's possible to succeed!

It's hard for myself, too, but... I'd like to share my way, because I'd love to help you and others with this complicated process.

So... First of all: It's not an ordinary job, it's not that he read some books and now tell the patients what he thinks they need to hear, only because he has to. He has chosen this job because he's very symathetic and can relate to human pains and needs. He feels the need to hepl and he knows that helping doesn't involve only "telling some magical formulas", but also... establishing a healing relationship. It doesn't mean he will love his patients (this woulnd't be ideal... ), it doesn't mean he will become friends with his patients, it means... It's so hard to me to describe it briefly and properly! I want to say mainly that... he also has to involve his own feelings and has to respond truly to the patients. So... the conclusion is that when he accepts you, it's not because it's his job, but because he was able to do it, because you are/feel/seem acceptable to him.

Now you might say: But it's only one man, what does it mean for me? I'd like to be accepted by others, too! Firstly, he's not "an ordinary man". He is the one you like and the one who became so important to you. And, most of all, he's the one who knows "everything" about you - much more than any other man! So it really is healing to feel accepted by him! And the feeling is important to teach you to accept yourself, too. To be better to yourself. And when you start to change this way, it will finally be mirrored also in your behaviour and you will also be somehow better in relationships to others - more self-confident, more trusting, ... what can also help you for example to make new friends.

So, this is my point of view. I see that for you, there is now a big obstacle that prevents you to go this way: Your fear that you would not be accepted . But... this will sound banal, but it came to my mind: There is no other way to be on the top of a mountain than to climb the mountain. It is risky, hard, painful, but... if you really want, you can do it.

It seems to be a too big step, but... I hope you see already that it's composed from small steps. I don't want you to tell him "I love you, please, accept it, don't be disgusted"! No, this would be awful, I'm sure . But there are small steps toward an understanding of the relationship you established. (My friend used to write me (about my therapist and me): "Just tell him 'I have sexual fantasies about you' - it's so simple!" Ha! No, I had my own way. It was slow, it was full of hesitation, mainly full of tiny glimpses, ... but... I can tell you: I love this way! It was my way, I feel it was right. I don't describe it here also because it's individual - everybody has to find out what does work well for him/her!)

Good luck!!!

P.S.: Just to be sure that everybody understants this thread well:

- This "can of worms" in the name of the thread was not related to transference! It was a very different topic.

- It's written here that "I'm not in love with my therapist", but then, in the recent post, I describe myself as "being like "in love"" - it's because things changed in the meantime!

- If somebody would like to read more about my therapy, it's described in much more details in the thread started by Tobeornottobe "What's he going to do?"

[tobeistohope]

I do understand your point, Lala, how being totally accepted by the therapist would be very healing, and up to this point, I felt that he was very accepting. I had the exact same experience you described when I was in the 7th grade. I was not accepted by my classmates because I was also fat as a kid. I loved a boy who was very popular and all of the popular girls found my folder where his name was written and teased me to no end, and they were already teasing me about my weight. The kids used call me fat cow, heffer, and all kinds of things. I used to want so bad to hide from all of the embarassment. My mother always looked at me with disgust whenever I asked for seconds at meals. She would always say: Don't you think you are heavy enough! Use some self control! And my stepfather would always call me names and cuss at me about my weight. He used to say I was a fat, stupid, ugly kid who would never amount to anything. :mad:

IrmaJean: I know that it is a nice thought that people accept us for our kindness and the other good traits that we posses and show, but it is not so, for if it was so, I wouldn't be rejected by men. In a perfect world we would be accepted for what's on the inside, not on the outside, but we do not live in a perfect world.

[LaLa]

I'm so sorry that you've been thru all this!!! Yes, you're right; we don't live in a perfect world. But it sill is to some extent up to ourselves how we feel in this world, how we learn to take the positive what's "waiting there for us". And how we unlearn the bad that some bad people taught us when we were kids. Our victory can be the total denial of their bad assumptions; we can live to show we are worth of love, we can be good to other people even though some people were bad to us and thus didn't teach us how to be good.

You are a carring mom, you have a job where you work with people who need you. That's so much! You give love, even though you haven't been given the love you needed! I admire you, sincerely.

By the way, have you already mentioned this (what's in your previous post) to your therapist?

And... it's such a shame that your parents used to blame you for your overeating, since it was they who caused you to be like that!!! I suppose you loved to eat even as a kid, because it was so plesant and you didn't have other good sources of good feelings!

[tobeistohope]

Yes, the part about all of the name calling and the way my mom treated me as I ate and my stepfather verbally abusing me I have told him. I only emailed him about things that had to do with eating, with exception to one time when we talked about it a little, since it so very hard for me to talk about anything to do with my weight.

And, I did love to eat as a kid, even used to hide food under my bed after my stepfather came into my life. Eating quickly became my comfort and has always been. Up until 16 yrs ago I used a lot of drugs, even was a heroin addict for 2 yrs. When I had my children, I quit using, but food is always there, and I cannot overcome it because it is the only comfort in my life.

Thank you for the kind words, Lala. I do care about the ppl I work with, although sometimes I really need a break from them.

I did email my therapist last nite and asked him the be a little more specific about what he said awhile back about ending the therapy if the transference interfered with it. He is supposed to get back today from his vacation, and will probably read it today or tommorow, but I don't know if I will get a reply before my appt on Wed. I did say that if he had time to reply before then, that would be great, but if he didn't that was ok too.

I hope everyone here has a peaceful day.

[LaLa]

I'd like to share it, as it's insightful...

I was wondering for a moment, are you becoming infatuated with a person because you can not accept that the person really has a deep, loving interest in you? It would almost make sense in a somewhat warped way. Like:

- Rejection (your inability to accept somebody’s love)

- Infatuation (to give something to counteract the rejection)

- Increased or maintained loving feelings by the other person in response to the Infatuation

- Increased or maintained rejection by you because you can not accept that love

It would turn into quite a vicious somewhat weird circle, wouldn’t it? It also would leave you emotionally very, very frustrated, because this way you couldn’t experience to be truly loved and you couldn’t experience to truly love.

Is that what is happening with you and your psychologist?

Did you grow out of your infatuation with him, because of some realizations about yourself (=progress in therapy), but then you couldn’t accept any longer his positive attitude towards you and you are rejecting him on some level (would be really interesting to figure out what exactly the subject of that rejection is!) and now you have to be in love with him again, to give him something to make up for that rejection.

In a way you being in love with somebody would mean you hurt them and are trying to make up for it. Is that why you thought of yourself as such a terrible person who does such awful things to others and whose love is dangerous for others?

[...]

I was thinking too, that also would explain why you enjoy that feeling of infatuation again and that’s also why you are afraid that he might refuse those feelings. It is you who rejected him somewhere, somehow (or at least somewhere deep down you think that) and in response you offer him the infatuation, in doing so giving something to ‘make up’ for the rejection. If he refuses that ‘gift’ you run the danger of him breaking up with you, because of your original rejection, you are losing control of the situation. It’s really scary, isn’t it?

[...]

And I think that not his presence was the rain for your desert. I think that is what you are trying to make it

His appreciation, the time he spends with you, the skilled and able effort to help you to develop yourself is the rain. That is what you are rejecting, isn’t it? That is what is scary? You don’t have control over it, if you accept it, it almost will make you depend on it and you just have to rely on him for it to happen without hurt. And that is what you are rejecting, isn’t it? And that is why you have to be infatuated again and are turning it around a little bit? Turning it into an erotic quality? (His presence instead of his interest, a physical quality as opposed to an intellectual quality).

[...]

[tobeistohope]

Maybe I'm just really tired but all of that didn't really make much sense to me. I went to therapy today and had a very good session. We talked a lot about my irrational fears and how I have been so upset at myself and wanting to punish myself. How I have an overwhelming desire to hurt myself. I left feeling very cuunderstood and not so alone.

[LaLa]

Hi Amy,

I see that it can't make much sence to "readers" here, as it's out of context, but I posted it because maybe somebody can notice there something interesting that he/she could relate to. It's absulutely OK if you don't

I'm happy to hear your session was so good!!! It seems that, in the end, the vacations were, in a certain way, useful for you - as I had hoped

(I hope now that my therapist will not cancel today's session (it should start in 3 hrs!)...)

[tobeistohope]

I hope not, either! Enjoy!

[LaLa]

Thank you!

So... this session was probably the most important of all I ever had. There is not an emoticon here that could express what I feel. Even my words can't. I don't have a particular feeling, I'm just a bit "astonished" and "comforted" and a bit ... I don't know. I think I need time to realize all the impacts of this session on me. It was not about some great insights, new info about my life or so. It was mostly about two topics: My relationship with the therapist and my inability to work (which was the main reason why I started therapy). He explained me his relationship to me. But I'm sorry, I don't want to share it here (maybe later - now I don't feel able to do so). (Just to prevent some unappropriate associations: It was not about anything like "love" or "erotic counter-transference" - it was obvious from what he said (and HOW he said it!) that he has not a problem of this kind with me! I would never expected it, of course, but I mention it just to be clear.)

Amy, you feel the guilt because your unattractivness in the context of your feelings towards your therapist. But me, I'm very glad all the time, and mainly now, that I'm unattractive enought so that I can't cause him any problem with being attracted to me! I feel it as a great advantage, because... in other case, I would never be able to express my feelings to him, to describe him how I "love" him - I would feel guilty that I might provoque him to "love" me. In fact, he can be more open and more "fearless" in expressing his feelings towards me when there isn't anything sexual that he would have to hide!

Maybe I would share one thing at least... He told me that during the 20 years of his carrier as a therapist, he never met somebody able to express his/her feelings as I do and to experience relationships as intensively as I do. And it really sounded very frankly. :eek: (- Yet one quite appropriate emoticon! )

[Guest ASchwartz]

Hi LaLa and Amy and Everyone,

Wow, that is terrific, LaLa. Congratulations.

Allan:)

[LaLa]

Thank you, that's kind

[tobeistohope]

Lala, I think you have opened my eyes to something. Maybe it is a good thing that there is no chance that my therapist could fall into some kind of unprofessionalism becasue of me. I would feel very bad for him if he did. So, i agree with you that it is a good thing that there is no chance of that, and I also agree that it paves the way for a more honest relationship on both sides! Well said, Lala! And I am pleased to hear that you session was so very important! Have a nice day!

[LaLa]

Hello, my friends,

I don't know where to post this, to I "picked up" this old thread of mine.

I just want to write very briefly that I had a wonderful session yesterday. I've already said so many times that "this session was the best of all", but now I have to say it again. It filled me with such a deep feeling... I can't call/name it. Maybe... sharing... That sounds strange, but... I mean so much by this word. Sharing of my feelings, my feel for my therapist, my value, the value of our relationship, ...

It would last too long to describe it and I don't have time (really; I'm sorry). But maybe at least some short pieces... Like; he told me that he felt a fear when he was reading a fragment of my diary (that I printed for him) where I described my wish to cut myself and/or kill myself. I was so surprised. You might say that "he shouldn't share his feelings with me", but this is false. He knows so well which feelings to share and he does it without any hesitation and it always means so much for me. Also thistime. He told me that I think he's a professional therapist, thus can "bear" anything, but that doesn't mean that he puts away his feelings. And that he really was afraid that I could do harm to myself. I hadn't expect it. I had been sure that he knows I wouldn't do it; that I always only think of it, have "dark" fantasies.

He also told me that it really doesn't matter if I write my thesis or not. That my value will always be the same. I told him that it was not a new information to me and he smiled, saying amused: "Indeed, it's not a new information..." but... we both knew that it was so important to say (despite the fact that it was not "new")...

What was probably the most "strange" feeling; I didn't feel the wish to hug him. I felt so "filled" (I mean... it was like as if all my needs were fulfilled in that moments) that I didn't need anything "more" (as a hug which I wish so much almost every day when I'm not with him). And it was so pleasant to feel that he's able to "fulfill me" without any touch, only by his words and his regard/eyes and his "body language". No, this is not a new feeling to me! But... yesterday, it was so very intensive.

Hmm... I don't know what to say more. It's all too complicated and I have to go - don't have time...

Best wishes to everybody here!

L.

[IrmaJean]

I think it's wonderful that you have a good relationship with your therapist, LaLa. This can be very healing. I know it was for me.

I think what you are describing is the feeling of being "emotionally held". This is a very special place, a place where you feel accepted and understood just as you are. It's a place where you can be yourself and freely express yourself with no fear of negative judgment. It transcends the need for physical contact. It's great that things are going well for you in therapy, LaLa.

[tobeistohope]

Hi Lala!!!!! I'm so very glad that things are going so well with you and your therapist! What a wonderful thing to feel so good after hearing his words! It means a lot to me when someone validates my feelings. I think things are going well in my own therapy, too! We are working on some things that happened in childhood and also a phobia that I have had for a long time. It was so good to read from you!

[Luna-]

I am so glad for you, Lala and it's good to hear from you again ...

[LaLa]

Thanks to all of you! You're so kind!

I'm sorry I didn't reply sooner, but... as you know, I try to "avoid" it as I can.

(This week, my T canceled the session, but, hopefully, I'll see him this Tuesday. Fortunately, I wasn't very sad when he canceled it as I still had some 'positive energy' from the last session. I'm sure it will soon be gone, that's one of the reasons why I'm looking forward to him...)

L.