Gambling

[SuziQ]

Hi everyone,

I would like to know something about gambling addiction. I know my daughter gambles and since I have helped her financially I would like to know what to watch for.

I did call GA and really didn't feel they were any help. They actually have an inpatient treatment center for gambling. My escrow officer ( I was closing on a property) was a lot more help---she left her husband for drinking, gambling, other women. Her major complaint about 12 step program was that she did not feel free to share where things might get back to her job.

What I would really like is some onfo on how gambling manifests itself in dealing with others. It is her call to change, but I would like to protect myself in this situation. Any suggestions?

Please do not answer with a discussion of 12 step programs--just info on how to recognize a person who has gambling problems. I am NOT trying to make her quit, interfere with her life,etc. I just want to understand how to keep a relationship going without hurting her or myself.

SuziQ

[Catmom]

Hey Suzi Q-

I know I promised you more feedback re: compulsive gambling, but did not get back to you. Keeping my promises is a "non-addict" thing to do and something I do value. I appreciate your asking the question again to give me a nudge.

I could go into all my "qualifications" as a recovering compulsive gambler, e.g. the depths to which I took my life, how long & diligently I have worked for recovery ("falling for" my therapist in the process, but that's another thread in itself, as you know) Suffice it to say that I really understand compulsive gambling from the inside and outside.

Again, I have limited time here but if I can leave you with just one little nugget of advice: Do not give your daughter money for any reason!!! Even if she has a "legitimate" bill, don't pay it. The reason she can't pay her bill is because of her gambling and she needs to feel the consequences of her misbehavior.

Indeed, that is what got me into recovery: The consequences got so bad that I could deny them and brush them off no longer. This is the only thing that could possibly motivate your daughter to seek help.

If you continue to give her money, this is not love, but is likely a measure of how you don't wish to be the "bad guy" by saying no. The worst cases of compulsive gambling that I have seen over the years are those with family memebers who play the sick enabling game.

I was lucky in that my brothers, who are all well to do, had the attitude towards me of "Well, you got yourself into this mess, what are you going to do about it?"

That is the stance that you must take to give your daughter any chance of recovery. Family members who continue to enable the compulsive gambler after being made aware of how destructive it is are demonstrating how sick they, the family members, are.

As you can see, I have very strong feelings about this.

Catmom

[John Rutledge]

deleted .....

Edited October 28, 2009 by John Rutledge

[SuziQ]

Dear Catmom and John,

Thank you both sooo much.

I just woke up to what was/is going on. There is the possibility of some lucrative gas leases on my property where she lives. She said nothing to me about it, although it was on the news there. She also asked me to put her name on the property recently (which I did not do or plan to do). It just struck me as odd. I knew she gambled. She has worked in casinos for 30 years. I throughly dislike the man in her life and had blamed him for most of her financial problems (he won't work and is now too ill to work). Our only arguments are about money---my money. I really think Catmom was the reason I began to have some clues. Every time she mentioned gambling in her posts, a little bell went off. Something about you (Catmom) in general reminded me of my daughter (who is a really lovely person). I think that is what endeared you for me, but I would have liked you anyway.

When I realized my daughter had kept the gas lease info from me, I knew there was something really wrong. A neighbor found my out of state phone and called me.

I probably will need support in handling this as she will think I am deserting her . And she can be brutal sometimes--calling me "far too interested in my money" I don't have a lot and I am alone and I need to look out for myself. I, also, help others, which upsets her.

I plan to set up a new trust in the near future. She was my sole beneficiary, but that will change. And I will get flack for that. I hope to set it up so she can have use of the property, but not be able to sell or borrow money on it. I'll let you know how it goes. I have not confronted her about this. I want to very grounded before I do that. She has done very well this past year and paid all bills on time, but the influx of some extra money may change that. The only assistance I have given her in the past year was when her dogs were very ill and the vet bills were very high. She paid part of the bill and I paid the balance--directly to the vet.

I do so appreciate you both.

SuziQ

[Catmom]

I probably will need support in handling this as she will think I am deserting her . And she can be brutal sometimes--calling me "far too interested in my money" I don't have a lot and I am alone and I need to look out for myself. I, also, help others, which upsets her.

SuziQ

I would love to see you get some support from a CBT therapist about this. I know that mine would tell me to disregard what an addict thinks. Of course she will try to punish and manipulate you into providing her with the means to continue gambling.

By the way, that was how I became a pathological gambler, by starting as a dealer in a casino.

A trust is a great idea as it would keep her from misusing the money.

I will post more when I have time--I am on my way to play duplicate bridge.

Bye for now,

Catmom

[SuziQ]

Hi Catmom

Hope you have an enjoyable evening. It sounds like fun.

Thanks for the thumbs up on the trust. As she is 55 and I am 74 in two weeks, I am concerned that she have a roof over her head when I am gone. She is alone--no children--so I want to be protective without being enabling. The house went to the ex and she has long since spent that money. Her "easy come, easy go" attitude toward money seemed strange to me, but I did not connect it to gambling. When she insisted that she live near a casino, I thought it was for employment--not gambling. I don't even know anyone who gambles much or maybe I do, but it has not been a topic of conversation since I don't gamble. Seems strange, since I lived across the river from Laughlin, Nevada for 7 years. ( John, that is the poor man's Las Vegas and has 7 or 8 large casinos. And, I will heed your advice, as well.)

I'm off to bed as it is nearly midnight. Thanks for being here.

Love and joy, SuziQ

[Catmom]

What an obnoxious piece of spam the above post is! :mad:

[John Rutledge]

deleted ......

Edited October 28, 2009 by John Rutledge

[Catmom]

Your understanding of lotteries is correct. Although I have a history of compulsive gambling, lotteries have NEVER interested me ever since I heard them defined as "taxes on people who can't do math."

Catmom

[Catmom]

I sent a PM to Mark, one of the board adminstrators, asking him to remove the post that linked this thread about compulsive gambling to a site that apparently promotes playing the lottery.

I am very dismayed to see that he did not remove this offensive post. Am I to understand that he thinks that this is okay? :confused:

What next, beer ads in the alcoholism threads? :mad:

Catmom

[John Rutledge]

deleted .....

Edited October 28, 2009 by John Rutledge

[Catmom]

I like your interpretation better than mine, JR. Recently, I have noticed that there have been fewer postings in general from the 3 moderators.

At this point, there's no telling what the reality is. The good news is that I , as a non-practicing compulsive gambler, know what is and is not good for me. Needless to say, learning a "system" to win at the lottery would not be good for me.

Catmom

[Natalie]

Hi-

I got rid of the SPAM about the lottery.

It does sometimes take us a day or two to catch up and remove spam... particularly if there is a holiday weekend (such as Labor Day,etc.) that interferes with our ability to get on the computer as much as we'd like. Please let any of the administrators know about future spam and we will take care of it as soon as we can.

THANKS!!!

[SuziQ]

Fascinating!!!

Now Catmom's remark about the above post being an obnoxious piece of spam follows my post. Maybe you should put "post deleted due to inappropriate content" in the space where the spam was. Anyone new would wonder why my post was an obnoxious piece of spam to Catmom.

SuziQ

[Natalie]

Good point- thanks. I made the change you suggested so someone could now follow what was going on.

Thanks again for bringing this to our attention.

[Catmom]

Fascinating!!!

Anyone new would wonder why my post was an obnoxious piece of spam to Catmom.

SuziQ

I would never say that about one of your posts, SuzyQ---unless you provided a link for me to learn about a new slot machine playing system!

By the way, how are things with your daughter? I hope you are making progress towards protecting any assets from her. I know for a fact that there is absolutely no end to how much money she can lose as a compulsive gambler. As the saying goes, if you give an inch, she will take a mile.

I will be interested in seeing how it's going.

Catmom

P.S. I saw no change to the posts, though. It still looks like I am calling Suzy Q's post spam. CM

Edited September 5, 2008 by Catmom

[SuziQ]

Hi Catmom,

I haven't gotten over to spend time yet, but I will. She is so defensive that it is hard to talk to her. Sometimes I can't even finish an innocent remark before she starts defending herself. Her "thing" was/is the slots. She also got caught up in betting the horses when she worked at an off track betting center. She says that working as a slot attendant has sort of turned her off on the slots. She was always a dealer before. Anyway, for over a year she has paid ALL bills on time---including the mortgage payment to me--except that one time with the vet bill. It was close to $1000 and I knew she didn't have enough, but she paid half. She actually sent me three $20 bills for my birthday and a really sweet card. She has also added $50 each month to what she sends me. Her car ins and mine are together and she added that for the insurance bill without any prompting from me. I have decided she should have whatever comes from the gas lease on the property I bought and put in her name. Whatever she does, I don't want to attach strings to a gift. Fair is fair---and I gave it to her.

How has everything been going with you? Has your therapy situation gotten better? I do hope all is going well for you. You've worked hard to overcome your addiction and deserve good things.

Love and joy,

SuziQ

[Catmom]

Sorry to be so blunt, but I hope that just because she has paid her bills on time for over a year that you don't imagine that she is out of the woods with gambling. NO. If it were going so well, you never would have brought up her problem in the first place, in my opinion.

Let me tell you more about myself: I have not gambled in nearly 4 years, but I am in no way completely safe around large sums of money. I am a part owner in a family farm that is now for sale. When the sale eventually happens, I will receive what I consider to be a large sum of money. I intend to put that money in a trust or whatever the correct vehicle is for people who are "not all there" and need their assets protected. You see, even though I have not gambled for years, that demon will always be inside of me. I lost one inheritance and I don't intend to lose another.

I also think that it is a very bad sign that your daughter is defensive. That is a BIG red flag!

As for myself, I am very at ease talking about my behavior and about the fact that I am, and will always be, a complusive gambler.

Please don't allow your natural inclination to wish your daughter were okay to turn into a denial that overrides common sense.

Hugs,

Catmom

[Guest ASchwartz]

Hi SuzieQ and Catmom,

I know it does not sound comfortable to read what Catmom has written to you but, in my opinion, she is right. Of course, as a parent, you want to be supportive and loving of your daughter. That's what is hardest for parents with children who are addicted. Our love ends up feeding into their addictions even though we do not intend that to happen.

Your daughter will not be out of the woods until she is able to fully admit that she is a gambling addict and without getting defensive. Only she can come to that by herself. Until she does she will remain in denial about her addiction and will run the risk of relapsing.

As her mother all you can do is Not give her money and not listen to her denials.

What do you think?

Allan

[Catmom]

Your daughter will not be out of the woods until she is able to fully admit that she is a gambling addict and without getting defensive. Only she can come to that by herself. Until she does she will remain in denial about her addiction and will run the risk of relapsing.

Suzy Q & Allan-

I have to differ a bit with what Allan is saying in that even if your daughter admits to having a problem, she is by no means "out of the woods." I myself floundered around in a lame (my opinion) 12-step program for six years while still gambling like a maniac. During that time, I "fully admitted" that I was a compulsive gambler but that was a far cry from taking the steps necessary for recovery.

When the final crisis came that was so bad that I couldn't ignore it, I had already started a professional treatment program for my compulsive gambling. Then I began to truly participate in the therapy I needed to turn my life around.

As I say, even I am not completely safe with large sums of cash and I cannot discourage Suzy Q more strongly from letting her daughter have access to any money.

Be strong, Suzy Q. Don't let your daughter's addiction manipulate you.

Catmom

P.S. No matter how much abstinence a gambler has, there is ALWAYS a risk of relapse. You see, I will forever have those euphoric memories of how good it felt to get that gambling buzz. However, as I continue to fill up my nongambling life, the risk of relapse is certainly diminished from what it was during my first few months clean.

[SuziQ]

Thanks so much !!!

Had I realized on a deep level what a problem she has, I would not have bought the little place for her. Since she brought that man back into the house, it has been virtually impossible to even have a conversation with her. If I had realized when she was out of money and staying with me, I would have had time and her availability. But I have done what I have done. I cannot sign the paper for the gas lease on her little place---even if I want to. We are talking about $8,000 to $10,000. Yes, it is a lot of money, but I have assets that belong to me and she has no access to them. And I do not plan to give her access. I have made it clear that she pays the mortgage on my house or she moves out. I think I really got the little place so I could move her out, if necessary, and she would have someplace to go. I did move her out of another place I owned several years ago and sold it.

It is complicated by the verbal abuse in that house and her schedule. By the time she is awake it is late afternoon and I am not at my best. Michael is so verbally abusive that I actually lost my temper and used the F word at him in front of people. So, mostly, I just stay away. I need to get moved over there and get some therapy to help me sort out all my reactions to this situation. No help in this little town. She only calls me when he is out of the house---and that is rare. There is a lot to the story. She got her job on Oct 24 2006, on Thanksgiving 2006, a neighbor shot and killed four of her six11 mo old puppies because they got out and killed a cat. On Jan 14,2007 a huge tree fell on the house and she lost everything she owned. In the following month Michael nearly died twice from breathing in the asbestos when he went back in the house to rescue her two remaining dogs. He was in intensive care twice and has not really recovered. She lived in a rental until the house was finished in Oct 2007. The transmission went out on her car and I spent her furniture money (from insurance)to buy her a car. And we got news that her ex had died in Dec 2006. I did use part of the insurance money to buy the place I put in her name. Because the house is mine, the insurance money went to me and she has gotten none of it directly. I paid for needed clothing, bedding ,some furniture, the car and put the rest into the place I put in her name. They paid over $20.000 for personal things that belonged to her---and the money has been spent on her. She did not miss one day's work thru any of this. They sent her home the day her puppies were killed because she could not keep from crying, but she showed up for work. The tree fell on her day off and she was back to work on her next scheduled day. After she got back into the house, a hot water pipe burst under the slab and she lived with little hot water for two months and the contractor kept coming back during the day so she couldn't sleep. She works nights. With all of this, she has called in once in almost two years of work.

None of this means she does not have a gambling problem, but attention has been focused elsewhere for quite some time. And confrontation during all of this would probably have been a bit much. But I do feel that she and I need to have some time together to talk now that things are more settled.

A long post, but anyway, I will keep my money protected. I guess I felt sort of guilty controlling the insurance money for her stuff, but I did know, on some level, not to give it to her as cash. I really don't like to control or be controlled.

Thanks, for being here.

SuziQ

Edited September 10, 2008 by SuziQ
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