To be or not to be

[curtailed]

I'm at a crossroads right now.

I have absolutely no reason to live. It gives me great satisfaction to think about not having to live anymore. I had planned to off myself today - I feel no confusion, no doubts, nothing about it. The decision feels almost too easy. I already have a working plan.

I have medication I could take to curb pain I might be feeling, but since I'm not feeling particularly anything at all, I can't imagine them helping. Besides popping any more pills or potentially addictive stuff down my throat isn't gonna make me feel better.

The biggest thing is that I have simply lost my will to live. I don't have any spark or enthusiasm about my future, nor do I wish to fulfill any lifelong desires. I feel very calm and together. I can only think that I wish things would be different, and that I wasn't so young.

What is wrong with me, why doesn't life inspire me?

[IrmaJean]

Curtailed, things can change for the better, but you have to choose to stay alive in order for those possibilities to come to fruition. Everyone's life has value. Please stay here with us.

[Luna-]

Ah, curtailed, beware this point of seeming clarity when everything is in place, the decision is made, relief and calmness descend, the end is in sight and all that remains is to pick the moment.

I recognise this point. It's actually a very good feeling. After all the turmoil and pain, suddenly it seems like a truly logical step, a very effective way to treat the pain and best for everyone else too. I was bound and determined, at peace with it, secretive, so I would not be stopped and went about it very calmly, believing there was nothing left in life. It turned into a life support situation, a "close call" I was told, not relevant here except to say I seriously had given up on life. (And I was mad for some time at being rescued.)

That clarity, peace, relief and certainty is a supreme lie. It is possibly the ultimate distortion of thought, your mind is REALLY playing tricks on you. That certainty, just like the certainty in psychosis (been there too) is a major disconnect from reality. You believe things are hopeless when they aren't. You just can't see what else to do. You want the pain and meaninglessness to stop and the only way you can see to accomplish that, is to die.

I spoke once with a friend who has had an inordinate number of friends commit suicide. (Or rather I asked her to come around when I was feeling very afraid that I could carry it out and also had the plan in place, +/-1yr ago.) She said the effect on others is far, far greater than you realise. You truly believe you're doing everyone a favour, but actually it is devastating for those who remain behind. Even for those who don't even know you. It triggers the hopelessness of all those for whom just giving up has been an attractive idea, even if only wishfully. It would even make this community we have here, reel.

The fact is that no-one knows what happens after you die, whether that is the cessation of your existence, or reincarnation into another sentient body or a move to various other realms described by religions the world over. It could be heck of a lot worse.

What is wrong with me, why doesn't life inspire me?

I know I haven't answered your question. The truth is, I can't. It's an existential question each person must find their own answer to. It's much harder than the easiness of copping out. But it's infinitely more rewarding, you can't see that, though.

Once you've decided there's no point, and you're going to take the next exit, returning to the hollowness and pain of life seems insurmountable, like walking back into your own private hell. Survival is day by day, sometimes for me it is hour by hour. (Fortunately this isn't often but I can't rule out that it won't happen again.) I've given my children my word that I won't do it, which is binding for me, so I get through the hours by fantasising about carrying it out. Fantasy after fantasy where I imagine every detail. I can capture the feeling of relief and release over and over. (Be horrified at this survival mechanism, but when my back's against the wall (or rather against the floor), it works for me. ) And then somehow you get up and resume the search for meaning and for something that helps.

If you possibly can, get your hands on "Man's Search for Meaning", a book by Victor Frankl, an Auschwitz survivor. Reading this should be on everyone's bucket list, I think. There is always a meaning, even if you have none, even if you have to create your own.

I find the cliche of "Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem" really annoying. It makes me think "Helllooo, you haven't grasped that this ISN'T a temporary problem for me!" (The reality is it can be made temporary, or at least less painful, you've just given up on finding out how.) Another cliche goes "The great thing about suicide is you can always do it tomorrow." Now that one is good, that's true."

And boy, does our mind get it wrong. We're supreme masters at fooling ourselves and at being utterly convinced that we have it right. It's like a mania, when you know for certain you can create peace on earth and that it is actually very, very easy and you're going to do it.

The certainty of that "I'm ready" point is the certainty of psychosis. Please, don't get fooled by the lie.

So, what's your opinion on this?

[curtailed]

I think I'm in love.

[Luna-]

Ummmmm, I beg your pardon? :confused: Please elaborate?

[curtailed]

It's just that you said quite nicely, and precisely, what I wanted to hear. I was simply pleased

Anyway, thanks for your interest. I will be heading out into the world now :cool:

[curtailed]

Getting out into the world apparently meant getting super drunk, having a fight with my sister and drinking half my rent... fuck this shit... I'm not going anywhere

[Luna-]

Ack, ack,ack. Hmmm, yeah, there are a couple of other ways of getting out into the world that don't involve those things... Have a hangover...?

You'll have to chalk that one up to experience (yeah, I know, my blackboard's full too).

Or make a list: What NOT to do when venturing out in the world. Do you know a few things you could start with...?

[Guest ASchwartz]

Hi Curtailed,

Suicide is the ultimate expression of self hate. Why do you hate yourself so? Perhaps you have unrealistic expectations of yourself and life?

By the way, are you really in love? Tell us more.

Allan:)

[Catmom]

Wow Luna, I have to say that your long post re: suicide & many of its implications was really thought provoking for me.

Like many who come to this site (and many out there in the "real" world), I have considered suicide from time to time when in great emotional pain. I haven't actually made an attempt for 35 years, fortunately.

Thank you for such a thoughtful post.

Catmom

[Lindamomof7]

----------------

[curtailed]

Durr Hurr Derp Derp

[malign]

I'll stop you, curtailed, but you'll have to help me. :-)

There's nothing you can get from drinking that will really help, anyway. There are people here who understand what it means to be hurting, at least. We can sit with you, for a while.

[curtailed]

Durr Hurr Derp Derp

[malign]

I'm sorry it hurts so much.

We all need people; it's just difficult to make people appear right when we need them.

For survival, though, what we need most is ourselves. You're a good person; can you be kind to yourself, now when you need you most?

[curtailed]

Thanks for being there, my friend

[malign]

It's what I come here for.

People were here for me, when _I_ needed them.

[Guest ASchwartz]

Hi Lindamomof7,

I welcome your disagreeing with me. Also, do not fear opening a can of worms. That is what we are here for.

When I give the opinion that suicide is an expression of hate I want to clarify what I mean:

1. Suicide is not the expression of hate alone. Many emotions are expressed including the ones you mention. It is even a cry for help.

2. When you witness and work with the survivors of a loved one who committed suicide, you get to see the despair, guilt and anger that they feel. The one committing suicide rarely thinks of that. There are those suicides where the suffering of family and friends is consciously imagined and hoped for.

3. Very often, the hateful intent of the suicidal person is not conscious.

4. One way that depression is thought of...just one way...is anger turned inwards against the self. In suicide, that anger is re directed outside, again, against loved ones.

Linda and all, please comment. Do not worry about that can of worms.

Allan

[Luna-]

Durr Hurr Derp Derp

Curtailed,

I'm Americanism-challenged. Please help me?

I hope it doesn't mean something like "I want die die". Wassup, you been mown down again? Grim Reaper been whispering sweet nothings to you? *concern*

[LogDork]

Hi Lindamomof7,

I welcome your disagreeing with me. Also, do not fear opening a can of worms. That is what we are here for.

When I give the opinion that suicide is an expression of hate I want to clarify what I mean:

1. Suicide is not the expression of hate alone. Many emotions are expressed including the ones you mention. It is even a cry for help.

2. When you witness and work with the survivors of a loved one who committed suicide, you get to see the despair, guilt and anger that they feel. The one committing suicide rarely thinks of that. There are those suicides where the suffering of family and friends is consciously imagined and hoped for.

3. Very often, the hateful intent of the suicidal person is not conscious.

4. One way that depression is thought of...just one way...is anger turned inwards against the self. In suicide, that anger is re directed outside, again, against loved ones.

Linda and all, please comment. Do not worry about that can of worms.

Allan

A question, Allan, if I may. It sounds like you have spent quite bit of time with survivors of suicide, and probably have a lot of insight into the lives of the suicides, from what you have listened to through you years of counceling, and may have known in your life.

How many of the suicides would the people who knew them describe as selfish and hateful people in the time they knew them? Most? some? a few?

Or is more often a change in the person(ality), as their mental illness grows that changes them to that degree?

Log Dork