What's He Going to Do?

[tobeistohope]

I have such a strong desire to be taken care of. No one ever took care of me as a child, i was just in the way of the lifestyle my mom and stepfather wanted to live. I was left alone a lot, and ended up on the running the streets a lot. I can remember many a cold night in the city just walking around trying to keep warm and looking for someoen, anyone, to be with. Now I have all these fantasies of my therapist just holding me while I cry, and being there for me all of the time. This seems to happen whenever some man, any man is nice to me. I hate it and it is a very hard way to live. I must be really repulsive to people since no one has ever seemed to want to take care of me.

[LaLa]

I can't tell my therapist that because I know he will have to report that to someone.

I'm surprised: Do you know this, or it's only your assumption??? I'd like Allan or David to comment on this, because I don't know how the law is in the US, but... I don't think this would be the case... What I know for sure is that in order to be healed, you should tell him also about this kind of ideations! They are an important part of your life: What do you expect from therapy if not that you'll get rid of these thoughts??? Please, try to answer me to this question; it's not only an expression of my surprise, it's also an important problem you should think out.

Some weeks after the beginning of my therapy (last october), I had a bad day, I was thinking about suicide again, I wanted to hurt myself, ... and then I wrote my therapist about it, I even mentioned that I had this fantasie: I imagined I'm in his "office", sitting on the floor (="expression of my slef-abasement"), crying and begging him: "Please, give me an injection, destroy me like a dog!!!" He has read it and didn't reported to anybody, I'm sure

You didn't mention (or I don't remember?) the problem which was your main motivation to enter therapy. I suppose/guess it was because you became depressed, so the motivation has been to treat the depression. But... it seems to me from your posts, that you are satisfied with less than you could get. I'm sorry, maybe I'm totally wrong; that's only my impression from your posts. You had the problem of not being able to cry. You have problem to meniton your fantasies about self-harm. [by the way, you can read the therad "how to open a can of worms during therapy" - maybe you can find some inspiration there...] Thus it seems to me that you're quite "closed" during therapy; you try to hide your emotions - or some of them - and some of your problems. It's not "wrong" - everybody has his own way, maybe your time to open yourself has not yet come - and that's alright, but... I'd like you to know that the therapy can be really effective only when you - even slowly; it's up to you - open yourself absolutely, without trying to hide something what you expect not to be accepted, not to be liked, ...

I keep thinking that after my therapy if my therapist likes me enough, he will want to be friends, even though I know that is a no no for him.

I think the fact you want to be friends with him is a nice proof that your therapist is good, that you trust him and like him a lot - and this is a good base for the healing process. As you already know from others (in your 1st thread, you discussed also transference), this kind of ideations are a normal part of the therapy (I have them too and I also know they can hurt sometimes... ). Your therapist told you that they are fine IF they don't interfere with the therapy. Maybe he's really the kind of therapist who doesn't want to discuss your transference a lot. Maybe not. In any case, you are aware of it and I hope you can see now, that the transference interferes with your therapy, because it prevents you to tell him some information about you. But this really is not the reason to change the therapist; this is the motivation for you to be more aware of all this and understand WHY you became so resistant to therapy (it's called resistance - Allan mentioned it also in the "can of worms" thread, and you also can read something about it on the web, but... it's not necesssary). You want to keep your nice illusions - about you and him being friends etc. - and to keep them, you delay your healing, because you avoid some important issues! And this doesn't happen only in therapy, this happens also in our lifes, that's why it's important to use the therapeutical situation to understand this "behavioral/thinking pattern". If your therapist doesn't want to do it via discussing your feelings about him, you can discuss these feelings at least here and then use the conclusions in your therapy.

To summarise: The main conclusion I see here is that you're on a good way, you have the right relationship, but now you have to do the great effort to "break" your illusions and to help yourself.

The friendship you wish so much would not heal you! Even the illusion that "maybe he will be my friend" will not! This illusion can only bring you pain in the end - if you keep it all the time, then you would suffer too much by ending the therapy. (But don't fear it now; therapists can help the patients to "survive" ;-) the end of the therapy without a too hard pain!)

Try to think more about this illusion. My opinion is: You don't need the friendship of you therapist, you need to understand what you need in your life outside therapy and what is preventing you to get it. You need the people around you to like you, not only the therapist. He will stay with you whatever you tell him about you! He's the one in front of who you don't have to pretend or hide anything to be liked! Believe me, please... Every therapist have to "like" his clients in some way, because they wouldn't be able to do their work in the oposite case. We patients tend to think we have "to do something or not to do something else or not to tell something" to have the feeling that "he has a reason to like us", but... this is about us, not about the therapist. He doesn't need anything special from us to be able to "like" us in the way he needs to to do his job.

What is your opinion?

P.S.: Katleen, you can share anything from my posts. And thank you...

P.S. 2: You posted while I was writing! I can relate to what you've just written! But, please, try to learn not to hate these feelings and wishes! They are hurting you in some way, but... what you can do is to understand them better - with your therapist.

just holding me while I cry

First you have to cry! Don't avoid the tears! I know, it surely will hurt that he will not hold you, but... he will be there with you, almost like holding you; he will hug you "psychically" You can cry and imagine him to hug you. And then tell him about the pain which caused the tears... I wish you good luck! I can imagine how hard it has to be to be so strong while depressed, but... your meds are working for you, I hope you can fing the "power to be strong", to do these hard decisions, to tell him what you hide for such a long time...

[LaLa]

Hi again,

I'm sorry that I'm writting so much today... But I can't help myslef

I'd like to add some ideas. [Now you see it's dangerous to "stimulate me" by questions ]

1. I've recently written (not here, but in a letter) that I realized this:

I have a (quite) happy relationship with my husband, but this has been only a patch [English is horrible for it's too many meanings of one word! In this case, I mean "patch" as "a piece of cloth"], but "the hole" behing the patch is still there and my therapy would be effective only if it helps me to get rid of "the hole" - I think in the way that "the patch" would become "an integral part of the cloth". Similarly, I was an A student, but this was only a patch to the fact that I considered myself to be very stupid. This 2nd example is simpler to understand. To explain the 1st ex.: "The hole" in this case has been my inability to accept that I've been a woman (I have always been attracted by men only, but I wished to be a boy "since my birth").

I mention this because I suppose this principle could be applied also in other cases, maybe also in yours. So... maybe it could be an inspiration. What I want to accentuate, is that it seems to me that you don't expect anything more than "patches" from your therapy. The nice illusion that "maybe your therapist will become your friend" is one of them. But you should show him "the holes" you need to fix.

2. I'm sorry I can't give you any advise related to the fact that you suffer from not being liked in your childhood (but... this is why I'm not a therapist They can deal with such problems; I can only offer you what I have.)

My case is strange, alogical: I have always had a loving and carring family who accepted me and raised me with much love and appreciation. That's why I supposed that "it's only me who is responsible for my problems, anybody else, so I don't deserve any help". (The therapist explained me why I was wrong in this assumption...) I still think there is nobody in my life who caused somehow that I became suicidal. It even wasn't caused by a disease! So... a "conclusion" for you: At least you can easily understand what caused your problems...

3. There has been one sole "strange issue" in my childhood (sorry that I repeat what I've written elsewhere, but... this way you don't have to search it): I have never know who my father has been (and why he didn't marry my mum), my mum has always been single and I've never asked about it, because I haven't wanted to know anything about it. So the therapist supposes this was important for my self-esteem. I still don't believe it much. But... my therapy is not in the end yet ;-)! Why do I mention it here? Because I see you also have "a father issue" and it's interesting that I can see something we have in commun: These fantasies that <<seem to happen whenever some man, any man is nice to me.>> - In my case, it's not "any man nice to me", but... it's quite usual, too. But I have always taken it differently: I never hated it. For me, it has been quite pleasant (I enjoy daydreaming). By the way; this is also transference, did you know (probably yes; I'm sorry for asking such obvious things...)? So... IF your therapist doesn't want to talk about your transference related to him (as you have once written), then talk with him about these other cases and don't mention your feelings about him!

I hope it's all from me for today... ;o)

Take care!

[tobeistohope]

Wow! Thanks for all the insight, LaLa! First off, a few weeks ago when I was talking with my therapist about something that happened a long time ago and could have had legal ramifications, I mentioned to him that I had a thought that he could report me, and the case be reopened. He said that "unless I was going to hurt myself or someone else, confidentiality runs true. So, that is where I get the idea that if I was to tell him about my thoughts to hurt myself, I'm afraid he would have to report it.

As for opening up to him, I have told him a lot of things from my past, including a rape that happened when I was 12, the bad treatment from my mom and stepfather, years of prostitution and drug abuse, abortions, some deaths that I went through, and so on. But, when I thilnk about talking to him about how much I hate myself, it gets a lot harder. He allows me to email him between sessions, and I am thankful for that And, yes, it is because I want him to like me. He always reassures me that there is no judgement with him and that he will be sitting there every week that I choose to come and talk to him.

So, maybe I need to talk more to him about how I feel about myself. Telling hiim that I hate myself because I am so fat and ugly seems almost impossible. maybe because it hurts so much. Maybe because I'm so afraid that he will see me. I feel so naked and vulnerable talking about my weight and how I hate the way I look. I did mention it in a couple of emails to him, ane we talked about how much I eat, most of the time until I am sick, and it was very hard. I literally felt naked. It was a terrible feeling. I was thinking the other day how I would feel if I had to eat in front of him and I could never do that. I eat out all the time and I eat at work all the time in front of people, but I would feel so naked if I had to eat in front of him, maybe because I know that he knows that there is so much shame there. I don't know.

[LaLa]

I suppose we all have something what when we are talknig about, we feel naked . I don't want to write here what was "the issue" in my case (I've written a lot about it in my thread I mentioned here previously, but I didn't reveal what it was, even there - I don't want to be so "exposed" here). But I can tell you how it felt. It was hard, of course. To be honest, I didn't feel any relief after the session. But then, the next session was very different! I was so relaxed and in a good mood! And it helped me - my problem (which I had for about 10 years!!!) almost disapeared! I know; this (the change) will probably not be so simple in your case, but... I believe that you WILL feel much better after talking about it. Probably not just after saying it, but... at least after several sessions "dedicated" to this problem.

I'm looking forward to your next posts

[tobeistohope]

Yes, my main motivation for entering therapy was my terrible depression and wanting to be able to live happily and have a reason to even live. I see my therapist tomorrow and will talk to him about hating myself so much. It will be hard, but, maybe it will be therapuetic also. I hope so. I hope I will like myself enough some day to have a reason to live. Right now I am only surviving, not really living.

[Guest ASchwartz]

Hi Tobeornottobe,

Too many people hate themselves. Usually, they hate themselves when they believe there is a gap between who they are and the way they wish they could be. How do you wish you can be?

By the way, most of us therapists have lots of patients who cut themselves. No, there is no one to report that to. The only time a therapist reports something is if a person is planning to kill themselves.

Allan:)

[mscat]

Yes, my main motivation for entering therapy was my terrible depression and wanting to be able to live happily and have a reason to even live. I see my therapist tomorrow and will talk to him about hating myself so much. It will be hard, but, maybe it will be therapuetic also. I hope so. I hope I will like myself enough some day to have a reason to live. Right now I am only surviving, not really living.

I am glad your going to talk to your therapist about this. Do you also see a psychatrist? a comboination of meds and therapy is really the best form of treatment.

Perhaps an antidepressant would help you feel better about yourself and relieve your symtoms of depression.

[tobeistohope]

You are so right, Mr. Schwartz. I am not who I wish I could be. I wish I could be not so ugly. I wish I could be not so fat. I wish I could be interesting and likable. I wish I could be smart. I wish I could be loved. :confused:

[katleen]

Hi tobeornottobe,

I hope you can learn to love your self. Fake it till you make it. I was always big boobed, and attractive, nice personality, at least at first, But anyway, got older and lost most of my teeth. When I smile it's horrid. And, I look like my Grandpa who molested me. Yuk! Plus, I pick at my face, so have sores.

Had to learn to go out in public from a whole different place in myself. Had to close my thoughts except the ones that looked for people to smile at, and see what came back. It was sooo hard to even look. By virtue of mood swings, I learned though, that approaching with a smile and compassion relaxed most people. Do this shopping, whatever, whenever I can. And I look at others a lot, to see what they look like, and don't assume anyone is having bad thoughts about me. I'm really not that different.

Neither are you.

Try holding your head up with a smile, open doors for others and flirt with old people. (not kids, mothers will give you a dirty look) They love it. No one really cares what you weigh or look like, but how you treat them. If people do have an issue with your weight, ask them why? Lots of women find big men attractive as all get out, maybe their Dad was, or he was VERY skinny, who knows. And men to, regarding women. All different tastes are out there. Am sure it's going to be what's in your eyes and heart that attracts someone, anyway.

I feel your pain. Have many days of hiding and shame and rejection and fear. I encourage you to find your way through it. Don't condem yourself, but reassure the hurt and frightened child just as a parent would do. Coo to yourself, or buy bandaids with pictures on them and wear the whole box. Buy yourself toys. Silly things, like bubbles or a slinky, or something techy. ?Whatever helps you feel better. ANd throw away shame. We have to. When people, medical and other, see shame in our faces they might assume we deserve it, and we don't. Our paths were what they were. We learned different ways of coping. There are differing therapies out there I'd encourage you to explore, as it's not an easy journey, changing how we feel, and everyone needs friends. Therapists can do that for us. They listen, model feelings in response to our experience, and help us be more effective in reaching our goals.

Enough said. Thank you for listening to my opinions. Am not a professional, just another person, Just thought I'd try to encourage you.

loves and hugs

katleen:)

[LaLa]

Tobeornottobe, how was your session? I was thinking of you a lot on Monday...

And I also felt a bit ashamed because my posts seem so... "moralizing" or how I should call it :) I didn't wanted to "tell you what you have to do", I only wanted to show you other ways of looking at the problems, but it seems to me I sometimes "lean over backwards" (-I've found this in dictionary, I hope it's apposite)...

I appreciate the post from Katleen very much! Thanks, Katleen!

[tobeistohope]

Thank you for your encouragement, Katleen! I appreciate it. I too have bad teeth which makes it hard to smile at ppl.

LaLa...My session went well. We decided to keep it light since it was so heavy last week. We do this every once in a while and it helps me to have a better week before we go back to the real work the next week. I am feeling a little better today!

[LaLa]

Thanks for your good news! I wish your good feeling will last for long!

L.

[LaLa]

Hello, tobeornottobe,

How was your week?

Do you consider the possibilty to talk about your self-hate during the session on Monday?

Anyway; I wish you good luck!

L.

[tobeistohope]

Yes, I have been thinking about talking about my self-hate tomorrow. I did take the first step and email him about it. It is so very hard to talk to him about it. I believe he is without judging me, but I feel so very self-conscious when I am ther with him. Is this normal? The same talking about my weight with him.

[LaLa]

Tobeornottobe, that's great that you started by e-mail! Well done! Now you can relly on it - it will be a bit less difficult to say.

Is this normal?

When I see a question like this, I always want to ask: "What do you mean by normal?" It's the matter of definition. But... in this case, I think (almost?) all definitions would lead to the same answer: YES. We are so different; there are surely also some people who "can say anything without any problem", but... I suppose the majority of us, and probably everybody who sruggles with depression, anxiety, low self-esteem, ... , has at least one issue which is so painful that he/she tries to avoid talking about it as he/she can! It's absolutely human to try to avoid pain, shame, embarrassement, ...! What makes the difference is if you feel motivated to remove the cause of the pain! As I already mentioned; we often use some "patches" to our problems - and this is also the case: When we avoid to talk about it in a save and kind environment, with a person who is there for us to help us with the pain, this avoidance is like a "patch" - like a deny of the pain, of the problem.

Don't push yourself too much, but... in the same time; don't give it up! It can last long, but... as far as you say it, the main "clog" will be gone!

(For me; it took two sessions to tell the therapist "my issue of this kind" (and it was after 8 months of seeing him)! I told him a little bit in the end of one, and then the rest I was trying to tell him for about 42 minutes of the next one, and I finally did it in the last minutes, so he had time only for two short questions and to congratulate me that I had succeeded to say it. And the next session, I was relaxed and didn't feel the embarassement and pain anymore!)

I wish you well and cross my fingers for you!

[tobeistohope]

Well, I went to see my therapist today and we did talk about my self hate. It was very hard, I sweated through it, but I do feel somewhat better now. I also told him about all my desire to cut to give myself some release from all the pain and we decided that when I have that desire I will exercise for 30 minutes instead, and hope that it will give me some release in a more healthy way, since I still cannot cry. Oh, I wish I could! So, I walked away feeling that we solved something, and with felling like I have a little more trust in him because we were able to talk about it without him having to report it. The only negative thing is that he is going on vacation and I have to wait 2 weeks to see him.

[LaLa]

I'm so very happy to hear that you succeded and that you feel better now!!! His idea of doing some exercise is great! Exercise can help with your mood, your "aggression", as well as with your weight! The hardest thing is to begin. (I struggle with it for many years... ) As far as you begin, the endorphins begin to rise slowly and they help you to sustain the exercise, as well as ameliorate, at least a bit, your mood.

And his vacation... Oh... I know it can be hard; it often happens to me that he suddenly cancel our appt and I have to wait one week in addition, and I also had twice a "break" lasting one whole month, what was quite hard, but... always very useful, surprisingly! I always felt like I was "unable to wait", but... at the same time, both these breaks brought a big step forward.

I cannot "predict" that it will be also your case, I only want to share this experience.

I wish you good luck, lot of patience and of self-esteem!!!

[tobeistohope]

Ummm... Mr. Schwartz, not sure if you are talking to me or not. You said "Hi Enigma". Thanks.

LaLa...Thanks! I am still feeling better! I haven't exercised yet. It is very hot here, and I am very tired from working all day. I may do it tomorrow after my college class.

[LaLa]

tobeornottobe, don't be confused; Dr. Schwartz's post was meant for another thread (Enigma is also a member here...). It happens, sometimes.

Yeah; being tired in the evenig and thus not wanting to exercise... that's also my problem sometimes Maybe you could try to do it in the morning (when it's not too hot yet - ?)...? Anyway; I wish you it will help!

P.S. for those who don't know what this is about: Dr. Schwartz already shifted the post to the right thread

[tobeistohope]

I just wrote this to my therapist. Therapy must be doing something for me. I never used to analyze my feelings like this.

I was just watching "America's Got Talent", and there was a group of dancers who were really good. They got to go to the next level in Vegas and several of them were so happy they were crying. I was so moved I almost started crying too. I was overcome with emotion because they had just gotten this chance to change their lives in a big way and I was so happy for them. Then I realized all the emotion wasn't for their happiness, but for my sadness. I always seem to get close to tears, or even let some fall when I see people who are so happy. I always feel like I am on the outside looking in. I wonder if it will ever be different for me?

[LaLa]

Yeah; that's it: Therapy must be doing something for you! But I'll change a bit the formulation. I used to tell myself the same, too. Like "therapy must change this and that"... Now I think I understand better that it's me who has to do it. Of course, the role of the therapist is irreplacable, but... he can't do everything for me, he only can "show me the ways", not "walk on the right way instead of me".

I hope I can quote here a framgent of a message of my friend (also a member of this forum):

May be this helps, don't consider your therapist being the one in the driver seat who has the map to the town you are navigating, where you need to wait for him to show you the way.

It actually is different, imagine that you both are caught in a dark maze and you are the only one who can know the way out. But in moments when you hesitate, don't trust yourself, are scared or paralyzed your therapist is there to support you and help you find in yourself what you need to navigate that maze. So go for the exit! Go to where you think the door out of the depression is and let him accompany you and support you.

This is not like when you go to a regular doctor, where you have a few symptoms, the doctor makes a diagnosis and then prescribes the therapy. Depression encompasses all your life, consider it is the cause why we all have wished to die. So all your life is part of the treatment. But it is you who gets yourself out of there. The therapist is your support, the one who knows, the one who won't fail you where everybody else will - and the one you will have to give up once you are good again, I at least always knew when that time had come and usually my therapist always agreed

And this was about my question "what to talk about in therapy; aren't some topics useless?":

Anything matters if you feel it matters. Your therapy is the one place where you can take everything that troubles you and you won't be judged or mistreated for it. The process of the therapy is part of it.

In one of my letters to the therapist, I described him that I feel like trapped in a maze, rambling, ... and he is "only" looking at me, showing me the paths I've passed over, sometimes asking me why I choose this path and not another, ... but even though this might sound desperate, I don't feel really lost, I don't feel anxious, I feel there is a way for me... I only have to discover it. And I'm happy he helps me so

Could this fit to your feelings, too?

[LaLa]

And... I'd like to comment also on your crying:

I see you struggle a lot with the desire to cry on one hand and inability to cry on the other hand. Now you've made an important dicsovery about it. You know what can trigger the cry. Maybe in the situation during the therapy session, when you feel you'd like to alleviate yourself by tears, you could purposely think about some happy people and the contrast between them and you. You would tell the therapist about your feelings in this regard and... I suppose the tears would come. It seems to me this would be another important experience for you. As I've already written, the 1st crying is the hardes one. But as far as you know how it feels and how the therapist reacts/behave when you cry, your block is gone and you're able to cry everytime when you need it.

[tobeistohope]

Thank you, Lala for all of your wonderful words! I don't know if your formula for cryiing will work, but, I suppose I could try. And, I will try to look at my therapy knowing that I am the one who must do the work. I know I need to be proactive.

[LaLa]

Hello, tobeornottobe I'm now just back from my therapy session and I'm in a great mood . And I'm also pleased by your relpy!

I was thinking today; wouldn't you write us something more about yourself? Because, although discussing therapy is important and useful, it could be also useful to present you a bit more than that "you don't like yourself as you are fat" I'm sure it would be interesting for us and potentially helpful for you!

For example, you mentioned once your son. How old is he? ... And what about your job? Do you like it? Or you childhood and family...? - Whatever you want to write about!

I'm looking forward to your post! :-)

L.