What's He Going to Do?

[tobeistohope]

Oh, what a day! I went to my therapist appt only to find he wasn't there! That has never happened before, so I must have gotten the day wrong! I have never done that before. I was soooo ready to be there talking to him. I texted him and asked him, but he hasn't gotten back to me yet. I guess it must be Wednesday. Oh, how dissapointing!

[Symora]

Sorry to hear you're so dissapointed, I know how much you wanted to consult with him today. Did you want to chat a little here?

[tobeistohope]

Thank you Symora, it's just that it's been 2 weeks now, and I've been going through all of this with my son's father. He is still here because the homeless shelter would not take him due to the fact that he is a sex offender. He is actively looking for a job, and I hope he gets one soon. What happened happened 12 yrs ago and he has not had any more offences, and my kids are teenagers now and would not put up with anything like that, I know, but it's just that I now have all these mixed emotions. I hate him being here and I seem to like him being here to, because of the company, I think. It kind of bothers me that my therapist has not texted or called my back yet, when the appt was for 3 pm. I'm sure it was me who made the mistake, and I suppose he's maybe still on vacation.

I wish this site had live chat, that would be wonderful!

[LaLa]

I'm sorry, too ...

I can imagine how it is - my T canceled a session some hrs before it several times... (I suppose that's because he's also a psychiatrist, so sometimes he has some urgent cases and he doesn't have time for therapy. I understand it and I'm never angry or wondering "what happened?", but... I'm always quite sad...)

Take care!

[tobeistohope]

I wasn't angry either, just very dissapointed and stressed about it, but today is Wednesday! Thank God! About a month into therapy he asked me if it was comforting for me to come and talk to him. I had to answer no at that point because it was still very scary for me and used to make me sick to my stomach for days before I would come! But, this time i am feeling like I can't wait to get to my "sanctuary". The one place where I am heard and validated and, yes, comforted!

[LaLa]

Wow! How great to see this smilie from you!!!

Well, it associates to me one post in this thread where I told you that every "gap" in my therapy was very hard for me, but gave me something important. It was very similar to your present situation! Now you can finally really feel how much he means for you and how comforting he is! I'm so pleased!

(And I hope today there will be no sad "surprises" (=hope that he will be there for you)!)

[tobeistohope]

Thank you Lala! He called ahile ago while I was sleeping to confirm...he has never done that before. Probably because I got the appt confused on Monday. I was thinking of telling him that I am beginning to be comforted by coming to talk to him, but i am scared that he will think that is some kind of transference and I don't want him to think it is too much transference and stop seeing me. I remember he said transference is normal and acceptalble as long as it doesn't get in the way of the therapy, and i never know how much is too much. Anyway, I will be glad to get to my sanctuary in a little while,. I know this may sound very selfish, but I hope my son doesn't take up too much time (we share the hour due to financial issues).

[tobeistohope]

Well, I had a wonderful session today! I feel soooooo much better after having talked with my therapist! He assured me that he has never, nor does he now think I'm a bad mother because of the situation. He also said that he just got back last night and didn't read any of my emails until today and that even thought he knows he must get away every once in awhile he felt bad that he wasn't here for me through this rough time. I was relieved that he didn't see them a week ago and just was ignoring me! I am feeling so good, almost exhuberant!

And how is everyone else doing?

[LaLa]

And how is everyone else doing?

I'm very happy now - it is always very pleasant to read in this forum something so positive as your last post!!!

I was thinking (because you had already mentioned that you share your sessions with your son) if it wouldn't be better to stop the therapy of your son for some time, as he refuses to talk - maybe he will realize that he needs it later; now it would be more benefical if you had the whole hour. What do you think? And what does your therapist think about your son's "silence"? Did you talk about it?

And the transference... It's difficult. But I think you should ask him about your doubts. Maybe he didn't tell it in the right way and so you've misunderstood! In a theory about therapy, I've read that transference shouldn't be discussed with the patient until "the right time comes". Maybe you've mentioned it too soon and thus he was very brief in his answer. Maybe now he would tell you more and in a different way. I've made the same "mistake" (well; it's not a mistake, I only don't know how to call it): I wrote him after several weeks of therapy that I had decided for therapy with a quite big fear that I would fall in love with the therapist and it seemed to me that because of this fear, I'm too much "reserved" and I "try to restrict/controll my feelings too much"... His answer was very simple; he didn't discussed any "transference" with me: He told me that every feeling, even such as erotic transference, is a part of the therapy. I didn't understand it very well; it seemed quite obvious to me, but then... I understood that it was important to say: that every feeling is important. Then, after some weeks, I tried to discuss transference the 2nd time, and... it wasn't very useful - thus I might make the same conclusion as you did and avoid the topic! But... now I know it was because "the right time had not yet come", not because "the topic is not important"! Only these last weeks, I know that it's already here and it seems he agrees, as we can talk about it in a useful way. But we don't use the word transference! It's not necessary at all

My advise is: Don't talk about "transference": talk about your feelings, doubts, concernes, ... - you can even forget the word!

I have to go now, but I'd like to write more later...

[LaLa]

I had a consultation with my supervisor (that's why the lag between the two posts). It wasn't very pleasant (as I have constantly problems to focus on my PhD thesis and he knows it, he knows a lot about my therapy (I write him almost every week "some words" about my session), ... so he knows that I'm failing in my work and thinking mostly about my therapy, but he also has to give me some "imperatives" or how should I call it, as he's my supervisor and wants me to finish the work - so it seems to me he's in a difficult situation because if me and I'm sorry about it ), but... I'm glad it's over and I can write here again.

don't want him to think it is too much transference and stop seeing me

I've read that some patients do things like: sitting on the knees of the therapist, getting down to his feet, trying to hug or kiss him,... - this would be "too much" and - even though; the right way to cope with these patients is not stop seeing them, but not allowing them to do this, explain them that it's necessary to sit each one on his own chair and so on. (This was in a paper for therapists I've read (in my language, so I can't share it here)) So; you see; your case is "not that bad" ...

As I've already tried to explain here: What can be bad about transference is a resistance to therapy based on it. So I'm pretty sure your therapist meant this, but he didn't explain it, unfortunately (he surely has his reasons, but...). And what is resistance? It can have many forms, but... in your case, I've noticed (and I've mentioned this before, too) one of them: Your avoidance of some issues: You wanted him to want to be your friend (=transference) and thus you didn't wanted to tell him some things (=resistance). And now the proof of the usefulness of knowing the theory: As you came to know this "mechanism", you realized that you should overcome your resistance and the result was that you were able to tell him about these painful issues! This is how we, patients, can "work with transference and resistance". But... this is something that can be even better if it's done with the help of the therapist. But... as I tried to explain in the previous post, I don't think that it's good to talk with him about this in the terms of "transference" or "resistance". I think that when you will feel something strong, unpleasant or even pleasant, that would seem to interfere with your comfort in therapy (with your feeling about its effectiveness), you should tell him about it and he should help you to find a way to cope with it so that it wouldn't be an obstacle anymore.

I'm sorry, I write too long posts but say only a little

Today, I should have my session (in 3 hrs!) - if he doesn't cancel it... So, we'll see...

"See you" soon!

[LaLa]

So... my session wasn't very great, but... even not bad or sad, so I'm satifsied to some extend. Taken together, it was fine

But I'd like to write you something else: It seems to me that in my posts, I use imperatives and "you should" too much. I want you to know that I would like to be able not to use them anytime, because I like and prefere the way how therapists can talk and write - they tell us so much without any imperative or "should" words and as a result, we often know what we "should" do! I feel like a very ... borne' / dim person because when I try to explain my point of view to somebody (about his/her situation), I can't avoid imperatives or too strong advises. But I really don't want to be manipulative! This idea (of being manipulative) is almost scary to me.

So, please, read my posts as advises and expressions of my point of view, not as attempts to "guide" you or manipulate you! (Oh; just another imperative, even though with "please"! )

P.S.: How nice: Previous post: 10:10, this one 3:03. Well, I know, this is in the time I have here in my settings. (Which is not identical with the time it really is here where I live, there is a cca 2 hrs shift (now we have 17:11 - oh; sorry - I mean 5:11 PM ))

[malign]

You "should" be gentle with yourself, Lala. :-)

We hear you the way you mean it.

You're a good person, and you're trying to help. That comes through, don't worry.

[LaLa]

Thank you, Mark You are so kind...

[LaLa]

Hello everybody,

I shared some of my posts from this thread with a friend and her answer is so insightful that I have to share it with you here (I have her permission) - and then my commnets/reply, too! (I deleted some personal parts of the message (=about her).)

You know, reading through the descriptions of your therapy I was a bit puzzled in a way.

Enjoyment would be one of the emotions I would have the least expected from somebody going to therapy. I experienced a lot in therapy but enjoyment was rarely the case. I lived through suffering, I felt ashamed, I made a fool of myself, I discovered new dimensions of myself, I experienced feelings which I had suppressed for most of my life (like […]), […] – and so many more. Many of these feelings were on the negative side of the spectrum, some very much empowering of me, most of them deeply exhausting, throwing me into a maelstrom where I had to cling to something (usually the presence of my therapist and my trust into his guidance) to get through there and emerge sane – but none of that was pleasant or enjoyable even though I do not wish to miss it for the life of me. It allowed me to free myself of a lot of stuff but also it allowed me to survive. I felt positive feelings when leaving, pretty much during all the time I spend in therapy none of the therapists failed to settle a session, to close the topic, to finish it, so that I wouldn’t run back into my life with the burden of some backlog, and that sure felt pleasant, because it freed me, but none of it was enjoyable while it happened.

I was wondering for a moment, if this isn’t a form of avoidance - you try to bail out on something very unpleasant, something you rather not want to see and instead focus on the pleasant, enjoyable element of it while being unable to experience it. So that there in the avoidance at the same time that nagging ‘something’ remains that wishes you to go to the core of the issue instead of dallying at the periphery, avoiding the difficult, painful subject, the place where change might arise from. It reminded me a little bit of the way you were struggling with getting back to your PHD work.

It appears to me again and again, that you are focusing on the setting, on the framework of the therapy, how to put it, like when you’re an accountant and you only spent time on understanding how to add up the numbers without trying to see what those numbers represent. You are essentially free to do was you wish in therapy. You can even strip naked and be able to trust that your therapist won’t abuse you, or you can throw yourself on the floor and throw a 3year old temper tantrum. These are options that you have and many more. There is not one thing that must happen, that should happen, that needs to be this way and not that way. You do not need to be silent. Should it bother you that you are chatting too much and are not silent enough you can make that a topic of the session, but you do not need to force yourself to be silent. Actually I was thinking especially in the way you are going about silence, isn’t that the prime example of avoidance? You are cutting yourself intentionally off from telling things to your therapist and you are justifying that with the idea that silence is a necessary part of therapy. I mean, if you really want to experience silence and so many people are so afraid of silence because that’s the one moment when they have to face themselves, you could just sit down anywhere and try for only 5 minutes not to talk, not to move, not to do anything. I always find that very therapeutic. I have had moments of silence in therapy. It has happened – but they are not meditative silence, no need for that in therapy, I can have that anywhere, anytime. […] but I was thinking it can’t really be a goal of therapy.

Sometimes because I struggled so much with words, because I just couldn’t get them out. There were moments when it felt like my throat was strangled and I was unable to talk. Or sometimes my mind would get so confused that I couldn’t form sentences. Or it happened that something was so emotionally overwhelming that after going through it I just needed a moment of silence to cope. There was often an element of sharing in it, which I appreciate so much, a moment of feeling that the therapist was with me, joined with me in that exhausted feeling, was empathically connected, supported me, carried me in those moments of silence. But they just happened. I never tried to provoke them, and I don’t think I ever even would have worried if they wouldn’t have happened. I was wondering if may be you are not cutting yourself of from the true experience in there by trying to create them, that way just experiencing an empty hull instead of allowing the emotions to happen that will result naturally in a silence that contains all that sharing and support.

[LaLa]

[…] You will not receive what you are yearning for deep down, if you try to fulfill the form instead of allowing content to take it’s due course. It’s in a way like a PHD dissertation that contains only symbols that mean nothing but fulfills exactly and to the last point all the formal requirement that are expected from such a writing.

I was thinking that it can’t be right to have a goal of ‘overcoming the emotional inhibition’. If you have it you have it. You have it for a purpose. Probably at this stage of your life that original purpose isn’t existent anymore, so it has become a survival mechanism that once served you well, but now handicaps you. Do not try to overcome it. Just understand it and let go of it. Why do you do that emotional inhibition? What are you afraid of? Why is it dangerous to be liked by an attractive man? […] I know why I am afraid to be liked by an attractive man. But why are you?

Now it will take me some time to write my answers...

[LaLa]

I’m afraid to answer will take me too much time, but... what else can I do than answer? I’ve written a lot about this message to my therapist yesterday and this morning (and I surely will write more). I’d like to share it but... it’s too much to translate it, so I’ll try to select... Well, we’ll see. (By the way, I simplify my sentences and formulations a lot while translating. My style of writing in my mother tongue is very complicated and rich (and I admit that it’s nice to know that my therapist thinks (he told me so) that I have a talent for writing) – yes, in English, it’s also quite complicated sometimes, but in a different, mostly confusing way...)

My first reaction was full of strong emotions. I wrote things like “you [she and my therapist] are all so very wise, intelligent, understanding, ... and I’m so stupid and confused and know nothing about myself” and (this was not for the first time!) “I’m too stupid for a therapy!!! I cannot answer any of your questions! I cannot understand myself!” Then that: “When I’m going to you, I always feel like I’m going to have an exam knowing for sure that I will fail, thus it’s useless to even try! Thus I think that the session could be at least pleasant if not useful. And I hate this stupid, absurd attitude of mine!!!”

After some time, I wrote:

“Something doesn’t fit to me in her message: 1. the word dangerous. I never felt any danger. (does it contradict to my anxiety? But a fear doesn’t have to be related only to a peril, but also to embarrassment – and this is not dangerous, only unpleasant) 2. her focus on the fact of you liking me. I would say that my emotional inhibition is rather related to the fact that I like you. (What I expect from your relationship to me, is only that you will be able to “manage it” in a way that it will not make you feel uncomfortable, frustrating, ... to meet me, talk to me and read my letters. And what I expect from my relationship to you? Mainly that you will interpret it concisely and I will learn something new from it about myself. “Should” I expect you to be pleased that I like you so much? I don’t know. I would rather say; if you are pleased, it’s a pleasant “added value” You told me you’re pleased by it. And that’s fine because you please me so much so often, thus it’s nice to know I can revenge it. I know you know all this already but I repeat it to let you know that nothing has changed.)”

By the way; my therapist told me nearly the same about this “emotional inhibition”: Something like that he doesn’t say I have to overcome it and I have to have emotions being there, but he only thinks I could think more abut the reasons of the inhibitions and what it reminds, associates me. And by the way; this wasn’t for the first time! We’ve already discussed this some months ago, in another context and he told me something like “it’s OK that you don’t know what you feel, or even don’t feel anything; you don’t have to” and – surprisingly, the next session, I was able to feel a lot – I felt ashamed (and I was even glad that “Wow – I FEEL a shame!”), I had tears in my eyes (and this was also very pleasant to know that “I CAN feel, I can be sad and express it!”). So... hopefully, my next session after the yesterday’s, will be different in this regard, too. It almost came also yesterday: In one moment, there was a silence (not “a forced one” ) and I started to shet some tears, but then, I was thinking: “Now he will ask me why I want to cry and I will tell him that I don’t know, so the tears would be useless, so I suppress them.” And he started to ask me, what I was feeling “right now” and I started to smile and even laugh, because I knew what he was going to ask. So I explained him the situation (as I have done it here right now).

This morning, I added to my letter something like: “It’s not a fear from a peril/danger, but it’s an effort to protect you [=the therapist] from myself, from a potential danger. It reminds me how we were talking about my need, in childhood and adolescence, to protect my mum from my own sorrows and fears (thus I’ve never told her that I had a fear (almost 2 years, I was about 11-12 yo) that I had a tumor, and then never told her about my depressions and anxieties). So maybe this is transference: I apply on you my subconscious effort to protect people I love from myself. Other associations: In my everyday life, I hurt too much the people I love by my feelings that I’m unable to suppress. But I’m able to “maintain a distance” between you and me, what is advantageous because thanks to it I’m able to control myself when I’m with you, but disadvantageous because I don’t want to control myself when I’m with you, because I know there’s no need to do it, and even it’s sad, because it provokes a feeling that I do nothing but sitting down, I don’t take the advantage of the sessions that I could take. It seems to me that it’s only you who can bring a meaning to our sessions and who says things that make sense, and I’m sorry that I’m only sitting there, knowing and often also feeling nothing.”

Now my comments that are not yet in the letter:

- I don’t think I’m avoiding talking about unpleasant things. I used to, but this is gone. These last weeks, I didn’t talk about very unpleasant issues, but it was because I felt the need to talk about other issues, more acute now. But I’ve written him a lot, really a lot of “unpleasant facts” these weeks; it was hard for me, but I’m glad it’s “outside” and he knows it. (it was, for example, also about my fantasies about him, which became quite... well... of the kind I don’t want to write here about; but I’m sure you all can guess right But this was not the only issue at all!) I know we will talk about them (we already did to some extend), I don’t want to avoid it. I only would like to be able to bring my emotions back to the sessions before doing so, because I miss them; I suppose I need them to be able to talk about some things. You say I should talk about them and the emotions will come? You might be right. We’ll see.

But... I wanted to say: My therapy, the part which consists of revealing facts about me, is mainly based on my letters. So when I’m with him, I want to learn to feel a pleasure of being with somebody I like, because this [as I haven’t mentioned yet here!] is something I was often unable to do in my life. I was talking with a very kind and admirable man, but feeling very uncomfortable. So here, I consider the sessions a chance to understand this better and to learn to feel good being/talking with a man, even an attractive one. But what is strange: I haven’t got any problems with “inhibited emotions” in my life! This is not a transference issue; this is something very special to this therapeutic situation. I had problems with anxiety and embarrassment, but these have gone during my therapy, and what left is (not in every day life – there I have no problems of this kind! There I can have positive emotions already!) “nothing” (or: almost nothing).

I felt positive feelings when leaving

This is strange to me. When I imagine leaving therapy, I always fell I will cry a lot and miss him so much!

you are focusing on the setting, on the framework of the therapy

Yes, this is my problem. I know I have to learn to focus on the meaningful things.

So, I think it’s all for today.

I’m very curious about opinions of you all, but I’m not sure if somebody was able to read this all and if yes, if he/she has some energy left for a reply...

[LaLa]

I'm sorry, I posted twice because of a "confusing situation caused by the computer"... But I can't delet the post, so I only modify it to explain it.

[tobeistohope]

Lala, I just wanted you to know that I understand the meaning of your posts completely and I dont' see any need for change! I love reading your posts!

[LaLa]

Thank you I love reading yours, too!

L.

[tobeistohope]

So, my son's father is still here (the homeless shelter could not take him). He is trying to find a job but also telling me lies at the same time. Yesterday I came home from work and asked him how it went at housing. He said he didn't go and when I asked why, he said he didn't feel like walking down there. It is only a few blocks from here. Then he said that he called about 2 jobs and when I looked at the outgoing calls on the phone I left at home there was only the 2 calls I had made that morning. So, I said, what phone did you use? He said that one. I said there were no calls that went out from that phone. He continued to try to lie about it for awhile, and then finally admitted that he lied. Another call he said he made was to get registered as an offender. He didn't make that one either. So, then I was getting angry and said ok, we need to go down to the police station right now and get you registered, which we did. He has no motivation at all and I think he thinks he can just pretend that he is trying and have an easy ride here. I wish he had never come. It's hard to throw him out now because that will be very upsetting to my son. :mad:

[LaLa]

I'm sorry you are in such a hard situation... What is positive is that you noticed his lies and confronted him with your findings - hopefully he will not lie now, at least not so much. But I can see that it has to be pretty annoying to control him all the time...

What about your daughter? Does she already/still (?) feel bad about him living with you?

And as you say "throw him out now would be very upsetting to your son", does it mean he's happy that his father is "back"/around?

And what about your therapist? Did he tell you something in this context? Had he some useful questions? It's surely too complicated for one session, but... maybe he gave you already an insigh, didn't he?

[David O]

I would really like if some of you therapists to post on whether my therapist really does want me to call him if I'm having an extra hard time or if he probably just means if I have to change my appt or something like that? He always says after we make the next week's appt, "Call me if you need me before then".

Thanks

Hi Tobe,

I caught this quote and thot to try and answer it as best I could. All of my clients have my cell number and they can call me between 6AM and 10PM (and weekends) if they need to talk. I tell them I'm serious and I don't want any excuses for not calling-- I would rather they called me and we were able to divert a crisis as opposed to having to see them on the psych unit. And I also tell them to be responsible and not abuse the relationship by calling several times per day just b/c they want to talk to someone.

In the last 10 years, I've received possibly 500-600 calls between 6PM and 10PM, none before 9AM. That's about 50 calls per year. On rare occasion I've gotten a very late call, but this is very rare as we have a system in place to make sure there is always someone available who the client knows--- not a stranger on the other side. If necessary, we then can assist in having them admitted. In general, I try to see anyone admitted, the following day.

I'm very serious about serving those I see and even follow certain protocols, such as answering my own phone by the 2nd ring (on occasion the 3rd) and calling back that day and usually within hours if a message is left.

So, when I say call me, I mean it... and if you don't b/c you don't want to bother me, then we're gonna talk about this in our next visit. I'm very adamant about this and hold everyone responsible, both the client and any clinician I work with closely.

I hope I don't sound like Gengis Khan or General Patton, but I do always want to convey that we're there as servants, nothing more, and the we intend only to provide a healing and safe harbor.

I hope this answers your question,

david

[tobeistohope]

Thank you, David, for replying. I wish my therapist made it as crystal clear as you do. I imagine each therapist is different in how they manage these calls. I suppose if I ever really needed him I might text instead of call. Sometimes, like latelly with my situation I just need a little encouragement and I'm not sure if I should bother him with it. I am very thankful for texting, though, as it is much easier than all those uncomfortable silences and such!

[tobeistohope]

Lala, yes, my son is glad to have him around, and my daughter acts and speaks as if she is indifferent to the situaltion. My therapist said I should put a timeline on how long he can stay, but on the way back from the session, when I told my son about it, he had a meltdown and said "and what if he doesn't find a job, then you are just gonna kick him out on the street? So, I really need to learn how to be assertive here. I hate facing conflict of any kind.

[David O]

Thank you, David, for replying. I wish my therapist made it as crystal clear as you do. I imagine each therapist is different in how they manage these calls. I suppose if I ever really needed him I might text instead of call. Sometimes, like latelly with my situation I just need a little encouragement and I'm not sure if I should bother him with it. I am very thankful for texting, though, as it is much easier than all those uncomfortable silences and such!

Just as an aside, I get e-mails from all my clients, sometimes 5-10 per day, and I answer them all. Most clients prefer this route as they get my words and can return to them as often as need be, which is actually a good way to travel.