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emotional vs logical thinkers...


nathan
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Is there really such a distinction?

Who is better? (lol)

Are people predominantly one or the other?

Can you be both equally?

Do some people reject one way of thinking?

Are some people naive to their way of thinking?

Can you be a predominantly logical thinker, and then switch over to more of an emotional thinker?

Is such a switch over scary for some people (for example, A logical oriented person suddenly discovers emotional way of interpreting the world and feels lost at first)?

Is the vice versa possible?

Does anyone know what I am talking about?

Edited by nathan
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I think that's a pretty fair description.

I'm the opposite of you though, I was always a strong logical thinker. In fact, I never used to have any idea what people really meant when they said that they are "emotional." I used to think that they just cried a lot or something...

Is it common to be very strong on one side and almost completely naive to the other, then suddenly "discover" the other side??? Becuase that's what I went through a couple years ago. It was kind of difficult actually.

My uncle is a schizophrenic. He was a lot like my father who was (and still is) a very "logic" oriented person (he's a computer programmer). Almost to the point of complete ignorance towards the emotional side of things. He used to tell me (when I still saw him) that in order to understand what happened to his brother (the schizo whom he was very similar and close with) he had to also smoke a lot of dope.

He said that in this time he felt like he almost went schizo himself. He descibed things to me which sounded a lot like the things that I too "discovered" -- which were basically the things in which I deduced to be emotional ways of interpreting the world.

Now, when my uncle went schizo, was he too "discovering" the emotional side of things? He said he saw demons and angels....but are these suposed religious entities really just things to do with emotions? I mean I can relate to that becuase I too felt I was seeing things in terms of "evil" and "good" when I first discovered emotional thinking, and I was scared at first becuase this was completely new to me.

The same seems to be true of my father, and I think the same is true for my uncle. My uncle had other stressors at this critical time in his life. If I had too much stress when I went through this, I imagine I wouldn't have the time to think things through, and consequently be left with thinking about the emotional realm of thought in terms of angels and demons aswell.

I think people who are very strongly oriented in one way of thinking are prone to being schizo's "if and when" they suddenly discover the emotional side of things. You go from complete understanding of the world (or so you think) to being completely lost, and this can push you iver the edge if you don't have time to think about it.

I may not be making any sense here... but if I am, is there truth to this?

Also, what if you are a heavily emotional thinker, almost naive to the logical way of thinking (is that even possible??), but then suddenly dicover the logic way of thinking? Is there soem kind of shock to this too?

The problem seems to be that "emotional" people are not incapable of thinking logicaly, they just put more importance on emotional things (probably develp less logical reasoning) but they are still capable of it.

In contrast, heavy logical thinkers seem to sometimes be literally incapable of thinking emotionally.

Perhaps logical thinker subconsciously subdue emotional thoughts, whereas emotional people consiously subdue logical thoughts in preference of emotional ones, and thus there is less "shock" or even no real discovery to be made?

What is it like in comparison if there is some kind of shock?

I hope I'm still making sense here, I need to know these things.

Edited by nathan
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Jet, I agree, emotions definitely do affect one's thinking, no matter how "logically" the orient their thinking. And there definitely is a "logic" to the emotional level of thinking.

However a very heavy logically oriented person can, in my opinion, effectively negate emotional thoughts to the point where the "logic" of emotions becomes irrelevent. He holds no value (or very little) to "pleasure, or avoiding pain" on an emotional level becuase his emtions are irrelevent.

Can you imagine not caring for these things? Wouldn't you often make yourself vulnerable, and not be able to do anything about it? At the same time though, it doesnt matter if you are vulnerable or not becuase you don't hold any value to these things.

This is what life is like for the extremely logical person. But when they suddenly "awaken" to the emotional side of things, that is to say, they suddenly put lots of value to fealing these " pleasures, or avoiding pains" on an emotional level, they feel extremely lost, and scared at first.

Is the a similar effect for the vice versa/ is a vice versa possible??

Edited by nathan
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hahaha, I've never watched star treck, I don't think anyone does in my generation...but I think that analogy works well with this, nice.

Logic seeks logic, emotion seeks emotion, I like that too.

And I agree, I think it is good to be balanced, I think it is key to living fully...then again if all you hold value to is one or the other, than maybe living fully does not require being balanced. Ignorance is bliss type deal.

Then again, I guess it could be unhealthy to supress emotions (or logic), then again maybe it isn't an act of suppression. I wish there were solid answers to these things...

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I'm definitely a heart on your sleeve type of person. My emotions lead the way, but I really wouldn't want it any other way. I'm not sure there is a "right" or "wrong" here, but what is key is to find a place of equilibrium and balance within ourselves.

Within any potential tragedy there is also the potential for the greatest of joys. One does not truly live life by fearing its outcomes. One lives life by embracing and allowing its moments. I think it's about being, which involves laying down your protective walls and risking any possible pain. In the end, we don't take anything with us, so might as well enjoy the journey.

Edited by IrmaJean
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All good points...

But no one else here has been very logic oriented and then suddenly switched thier values onto a more emotional level?

Because it is very strange experience.

Maybe I was experiencing something else and for whatever reason I wrongly associated it with my understanding of logical and emotional thinking.... I doubt it though.

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'Logic' usually depends on some system of explicit quantification and formulating an algorithm in which those quanta are processed.

The brain is basically a model making computer (not akin to the technological ones). I like to think of emotion as a form of logic whose processes and quanta are mostly unknown to us, so they appear to contrast with the explicit manifestations that we are accustomed to thinking of as 'logic'.

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Do you ever get lost in that vocabulary of yours?

So you are saying emotion is logic?

When we talk about "emotions" things can get convoluted easily.

I think there is a "logic" to what people call "emotional intelligence" but what about the experience of an emotion itself? Is there a logic to the feeling of anger? There may be a logical reason to be feeling it, but the feeling itself is just a mere feeling, no?

I suppose logical thoughts could have associations with certian emotions, and vicce versa...

But if emotion is some form of logic that we are unable to wholly identify with, then its still practical to differentiate emotion from logic in that they are either things that we can identify with and things that we cannot.

I'm really drunk right now, did you ever read George Orwell, "Politics and the English Language," ?

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I think emotion is an experience of logic, yes. I think of it as a 'mode' that your brain enters into in order to process perceptions with a particular bias.

Unifying the 'experience' of emotion with the logic of our sentience is the goal of psychology as far as I can tell. It's easy to come to an understanding of emotions that are triggered by explicit events, such as making love, witnessing a car accident, eating a sandwich or reading a mentalhelpnet post. Something like Mood Swings on the other hand are way more difficult to figure out. There's a lot of information being processed in our brain that is non-concious stemming from previous events and maybe even long term imprinting.

Nah, I don't read books. I don't have the concentration or motivation.

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As far as I know, and I'm no expert, our emotions are processed via our lymbic system, and our logical self is predominantly the neo-cortex. They obviously have to interact, with other systems as well such as the amygdala which is our primitive instinct brain - it's all like spaghetti up there, I don't know how we ever figure anything out! :-)

I think I can sort of understand what you mean Nathan because I had an awakening to my spiritual self that felt like that. Thre was me before, and me after the experience of <getting it>. I think we operate on a multitude of levels, physical, intellectual, emotional, spirituals, mixed in with multiple senses that provide input into the mix and components such as culture, education, personality. Human's are so multidimentional....

To me we all live on a continuum with regards to our intellectual and emotions selves, with some who have stronger predispositions towards different ends of the spectum. I have a much stronger predisposition towards hearing my emotions, they just speak so loudly I can't hear anything else :eek: They take up all the room sometimes. It's probably the same for others who tend more towards the logical. The best is probably when you can get all the dials balanced to get the clearest sound ;-)

Edited by Symora
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Well thats interesting Symora.

You say you are very emotionally oriented and you also think you have had a similar experience.

I guess it is hard to tell if the 'expereince' you went through is the same sort of one I am talking about, but if we assume that it is, I'm curious.

I think (perhaps wrongly) that I am predominantly 'logic' oriented and so the 'experience' seemed to introduce me/changed my values onto a more emotional level. But if I ways ALWAYs thinking on a more emotional level I doubt that I would have had such an experience, or if I did, I would not have thought much of it, since I would already be thinking on that level...

I can see how you could call it a 'spiritual awakening,' but I'm not religious, and so I thought of the whole thing was an emotional experience of some sort, which was backed up by the fact that I seemed to grow emotionally...

Of course I could have this all mixed up, which is why I'm trying to talk about it.

So, being predominantly emotional, what exactly did you learn/ what changed in you after this experience? Is there some kind of an inversion of what we experienced, being on the "opposite ends of the spectrum" in the first place?

Edited by nathan
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Speaking from the viewpoint of someone that experiences everything - and I mean everything - from an emotional level, I too find that it can drown out everything else. "Every act of self control leads to a sense of self respect' while feeling everything means you have no self control and therefore no self respect (I'm talking about myself here). I wish I knew how to 'tune the dials' so feeling and logic could be perfectly balanced. Being overly emotional means you turn every little molehill into a mountain and it can be so exhausting.

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You may not respect yourself, but I for one, highly respect emotional people. For me to consider things emotionally I have to stop and force myself to 'go there.' Often I can't, which can make me ignorant/ do stupid things.

I think you get exhausted because you can actually see things for how they really are. You are constantly seeing. I'm usually blind, and build up excessive energy. You can see, which can give you lots of control, and self respect, or at least lots of respect from someone who is blind.

Isn't and act of self control and act of some kind of supression of yourself? Arn't you disrespecting yourself by supressing yourself?

Or are you supressing yourself in some minor way, which allows you to respect yourself in some bigger way?

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Nathan I think that you and I are at opposite ends of the spectrum of emotion/logic! If only there were some way we could mix both and come out with a perfect balance!:D

Although you think i'm seeing things 'as they really are', i'm not. I'm constantly 'feeling' them which is different. I tend to blow things out of all proportion. Actually it's exhausting reacting to everything in an emotional way because which do you think would be easier to surmount? a mountain or a molehill? :P

I meant self control, not as repressing my feeling altogether, but being able to control the situation rather than letting the situation, and my feelings, control me.

It's good that you can actually make yourself stop and 'go there', even if you fail sometimes. That's what I meant by self control though, and I think you do have it, much more than I. You feel unable to connect and you think being emotional will help you do that. It won't, because being overly emotional blinds you to others feelings.

Edited by Endlessnight
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Every try to find ways to release all of that emotion, endlessnight? I'm very emotional as well, but appreciate this aspect of myself. Well, most of the time...

Do you write poetry at all? Sometimes if you can gather all of the feelings and energy around the feelings, you can release some of that emotion in healthy ways. Life can be paradoxical sometimes. Embracing that which you struggle with rather than fighting it, may allow you to let it go. I have some favorite music that I listen to that makes me very emotional. So at times I'll put on my headphones and turn the volume up and freely allow all of those feelings. It's a release in some ways and helps me to find a center with the logical part of my mind.

As you say, balance is always essential. This is true in many different respects of life. The key is finding your way to it.

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I too love music IrmaJean, and yes it makes me very emotional, but as for being a release....i'm not sure about that. Before I got my computer and the internet I had forgotten how much music moves me. I used to write poetry when I was younger, most of it just teenage angst. :D I'm not good at expressing myself in that way, I wish I were. I have a problem with showing my feelings. If you read my reply to you on the other thread you will perhaps understand what I mean. Love has been used against me so I stopped myself from feeling inside. When I say I am too 'emotional' I mean in a hysterical out of control way I guess. Not as in being too loving or caring. Although I love my nieces very much I can only hug and kiss my youngest niece (she is six years old), I can't show affection in a physical way once they grow up a little.

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Speaking from the viewpoint of someone that experiences everything - and I mean everything - from an emotional level, I too find that it can drown out everything else. "Every act of self control leads to a sense of self respect' while feeling everything means you have no self control and therefore no self respect (I'm talking about myself here). I wish I knew how to 'tune the dials' so feeling and logic could be perfectly balanced. Being overly emotional means you turn every little molehill into a mountain and it can be so exhausting.

Hi Endlessnight, Irma Jean and Nathan, and all,

My emotions derail me. It sucks to not be able to stop and use logical thinking, or wise mind, as referred to in DBT. Some things are just a thought, and I flood with feeling. I react to perceived abandonment/ issues at times with emotions running two or three days. Moods, by then, of course. It is exhausting. Am trying to use a little more logic. I trusted emotion, I called it love and instinct as a child, there was no logic in my growing up.

But it hasn't served me well. Learning other ways to look at things, asking what and why, what else could she have meant, are they having a bad day, often clarifies that I needn't be so afraid. Observe and describe skills often give me a bit of distance so I can look at logic, too. After years of meds and therapy, learning responsibility for my own well being is making a difference, at least in less intense situations.

And am hoping for more. Irma Jean, I like to paint. I'll try that. I forget easily to self nurture. The rollercoaster is exhausting.

loves and hugs

katleen

Edited by katleen
Just a correction
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You feel unable to connect and you think being emotional will help you do that. It won't

You are right, I do think that.

I understand what you mean when you say your emotions take over and you loose control, It's the same on the other extreme, but for different reasons... I undertsand that you are FEELING these things, but in a way that is also seeing. Because for someone who doesn't consider their own or other peoples emotions, he becomes blind to some of the most obvious things. He still feels emotions on some level, but doesn't know how to recognize them in himself or in others. He walks through a world of emotion, but can't detect any of it, or if he does, he ignores it.

Imagine if you were blind from birth, didn't know anything about the world, and were put in a car to drive ( but you know the car controls). Are you in control of the car? Sure, you can and do control the car itself, by stopping and going and what not, but it doesn't look too in control from pedestrians watching outside. You seem to ingore all the stop lights and so on.

Furthermore, if you crash and hit a poll, you have no idea what hit you, you thought you had control over the car, since you made it stop and go before, but now you are stuck. It makes no logical sense either becuase you have never previosly been introduced to anything that could have stopped it. You can't figure out why you are stuck no matter how much you try and think about it. Perhaps the emotional person can't control the car properly for some reason, but at least you can see the damn polls (maybe overly distracted by them.)

I think you always have to appreciate your emotions, but never trust them. Likewise, I think you always have to trust your own logic, but also realize that logic isn't always the most important thing/ it has its limitations.

Forgetting either of those gets you lost, and one sided.

Edited by nathan
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I think calling emotions weak, is a weak excuse to dismiss them. You really dismiss them because you see that there is more than emotion. People question you for seeing this, so you feel a need to defend yourself, thus you call them weak becuase you don't (and no one really can) explain yourself fully. the emotional vs. the logical parts of the mind is a paradox.

Edited by nathan
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