Transference/Countertransference

[Chisholm]

I wish I knew what it was that I needed to start believing in myself - in some ways that is what I went to therapy for (severe depression and a history of abandonment and sexual abuse) only to be "abused" again and then abandoned. I have to trust my feelings, my intuition - I believed that he "fell in love with me" - whether you call it countertransference to be safer, the "lovesick therapist" ala Gabbard or plain old love in a "hothouse environment" the feelings were the same. After all even Freud struggled to distinguish love from transference. I believe that all forms of love have a "repeating the past element" and in this case no doubt just as i saw my reflection in him, he saw his in mind. To be sure - in "real life" he might be a royal pain in the butt but at least he "knows me well"!!

The crazy thing is all the psychs believe this as well (some of them know him well, others are going on the objective evidence alone) - they all believe that his intentions were sincere, that he "fell in love" and lost his boundaries and in so doing his judgement. A bit crazy when psychiatrists and psychologists start sprouting this stuff - the stuff movies are made of yet that was what I felt and he does have an impeccable reputation - in fact he headed up the WP SASOP subgroup (not that that says anything)!!

So the question I ask myself is who is crazy here? Admittedly the Health24 Prof does not know all the detail (he was just responding to the question I actually posted here # 92), he is going on his perception of the matter on face value. But he does not see the affirmation in it, yet all the others do.

So I guess I do not know how to view the matter - it has not settled for me yet but I'm told that it is still early days and the wound is still fresh. How do I and why should I take affirmation from this?

[IrmaJean]

Chisholm, have you taken a look with your current therapist about why you wanted him to have these feelings for you? Why there is such a need in you for this? I would try not to look so literally at it, but perhaps more symbolically as in what need "being loved" represents in you? Try taking affirmation in what you learn about yourself. Make it about you, Chisholm.

[malign]

Well, this is just my opinion. I'm just a man, and a layman, and I've never had strong transferences with the half dozen or so therapists I've seen for periods ranging from a couple of months to several years. I did like them all, though.

Anyway, the way I see it, you went into therapy wondering whether you were lovable. You may have openly believed you weren't. In therapy, you learned, perhaps for the first time, that in fact, you were as lovable as the next person.

That part's pretty average; I went through a similar transition myself.

Having the therapist even appear to feel that for themselves, however, makes it too easy for us to limit the change in our thinking. It's easier to believe that, instead of us being generally lovable, we've just found one of the extremely rare people who could love us. That's a place where the natural transference can get stuck. The therapist has power in this relationship; that power needs to be dissipated with skill so that the client eventually emerges without a permanent attachment to the therapist.

So, what affirmation can you take from the experience?

The lesson that you're lovable is yours. You can take it out into your life, perhaps with the help of a new therapist, and use it as you see fit. But if you still need to ask your old therapist's permission, as it sounded like you were doing, a few posts ago, then you're still stuck.

Unstick yourself: the power is actually yours. And I'm sure you'll find plenty of people out there in the world who'll love you just for who you are.

[Chisholm]

In so many ways, when he denied everything I was transported right back to the situation I found myself in as a child. When I was raped as an 11-year-old, I told no one - I was too ashamed and I did not think anybody would believe me. When my therapist denied everything, not only did I think nobody would believe me, I also did not believe myself - how can I ever forgive him for putting me into that position?

Then there is another issue - neediness. What is the difference between "enjoying" the sexual abuse (attentions) of my abuser as a child (a sad fact that very few will admit but there is usually that element) and my enjoying the "love"/attentions of my therapist? It runs so close.....and yet the psychiatrists/psychologists believe there is affirmation to be found?

I know it is not black or white - I learnt that much in therapy but how do I process this?

[malign]

In defense of "neediness", which after all is in my signature ... ;-)

The solution is not to stop having needs. Both sexual pleasure and the need for love are necessary to a healthy life. Sure, both can be distorted by people whose goal is to abuse you. That's not an indictment of need, so much as an indication of the care that is required in setting one's boundaries.

And yeah, every experience of boundary violation, hard as it may have been to live through, can be used to help you set healthier boundaries, next time.

Oh, and who said you should forgive him for what he did? I hope that the fact that people did believe you helped you, at least a little.

[Chisholm]

Hi Malign

I'm not even sure the issue is that of "lovability" - to be sure I have suffered my share of abandonments in life but I have never really believed I am unlovable - I think it goes even deeper than that. Perhaps it is a bit of a chicken and egg conundrum. What comes first the self belief or the self love? What does that sense of self consist of?

I keep on going back to Winnicott: "When I look, I am seen therefore I exist". That vital mirroring process that everybody needs early in life was somewhat skewed in my upbringing - I mirrored my mother (aka the narcissist). Intuitively I recognised what my therapist needed in me (his needs came into the room) and that is where the picture became somewhat distorted. I became what I thought he needed - my false self played out. I think he saw through most of it, nevertheless I still did not feel free to reveal my true self.

So somewhere between my false self and having my judgement and self belief thrown back in my face, I guess I lost myself somewhat.

[IrmaJean]

Are you able now to show your true self to your current therapist? How has your therapy been going? I hope she has been offering you positive guidance and support.

[malign]

Well, that's a very clear statement, Chisholm. Perhaps another thing you can "take with you", as an affirmation of your therapy, if it helped you see things with such clarity.

Self-love is the root of all other love, so they're closely related concepts ... One thought would be that most adults become responsible for their own mirroring, eventually.

Have you tried meditation? For me, the feeling of calm and peace that arose in me when I tried it were all the reassurance I needed. Self-worth, something I wrestled with throughout my life, suddenly seemed like an obvious thing, something I already knew. I have strengths; I have weaknesses; neither of them is Me. I'm just one being in an entire Universe, but I'm the only one who's Me ... Anyway, this is where the words break down, and only the experience does the experience justice. ;-)

I do believe that, for any question of identity or worth, one's own Center is really the only place to turn.

[Chisholm]

Hi IJ and Malign

You guys really are so supportive and heartwarming to speak to thank you!

IJ, my current therapist is brilliant (thankfully she is a she!) and she constantly reminds me that she does not feel I have any pathology and she finds me one of the most authentic people she has met - if only because I need reminding. She feels that the connection/attraction between my therapist and myself was a case of there being a 100% fit - a meeting of minds so to speak. She keeps on going on about my intellect - something I guess I have never really placed much value on. Nevertheless there is a downside to that - my ex-therapist and I got so caught up in intellectual gameplaying and flirting that we both (or rather he) lost sight of the goalposts.

She really is one of the most genuine, warm persons I have ever met and I have great confidence in her.

Malign - I absolutely agree with you. I am thinking of attending a mindfulness course which will hopefully tap into that right brain a bit more - sadly neglected yet I think that my intuitions are usually very accurate. Forgive the length but have attached a post from the spirituality site that I posted not so long ago - kind of expresses some of what I think you mean and I yearn to explore it more deeply:

Calla

I connect with that so strongly.

I think Scott Peck describes those feelings so aptly for me when he refers to "moments of grace".

I have no particular religion, in fact I am fond of describing myself as a "spiritual wanderer" but there are moments (all to brief) when life is filled with so much meaning that just for a moment it transcends all the pain and drudgery such that time almost seems to stand still. (Would that we could bottle the feeling!!)

I recently went through more trauma than anyone should have to endure and in the process, I tried to commit suicide by slashing my wrists and overdosing - I literally did not want to endure any further psychic pain. In simple terms I tried to self annihilate. In the early weeks of my recovery, I went for a walk in the mountain on my own - for much of the walk I did not really take in anything. I was stuck in my head, lost in my own pain and the little I did see was blurred by my tears.

Towards the end of the walk (I am a keen birdwatcher), I came across a beautiful Rock Kestrel perched on the railing. Rock Kestrels are by no means unique but they are magnificent large birds if one is lucky enough to get sufficiently close to watch. What struck me immediately is that he did not fly away but allowed me to walk up to within a metre of him - I literally held my breath. It was almost as if he was extending his trust to me by allowing me to get so close, I was spellbound. In that moment I forgot all my troubles and found myself actually thanking (out loud - I am so glad nobody was around to witness it - might have thought me a bit loopy) the bird! It was almost as if the pain I had gone through had somehow broken me open and in watching the bird up close, my raw wounds exposed, I found thanks and awe in beholding something so beautiful and so trusting. Just for a moment I was seeing in technicolour and the "still point to the turning world" was to be found within.

As if that weren't enough, the Kestrel followed me on my path down the mountain, flying from post to post. When I got home, I was in raptures about my experience - needless to say everybody looked at me very blankly!!!

But something about that moment has lingered on for me and in so many ways it seems to have heralded a new found strength and courage to prevail. Whenever I find myself floundering in the pits of despair I think about that moment. I dont believe in epiphanies or signs but I guess I sometimes do wonder! Moments of grace?

Thanks so much guys - you are such special people.

XX

[IrmaJean]

I'm so sorry that you have had such negative experiences with men. I am happy to know that your current therapist is genuine and caring.

Thank you so much for sharing your beautiful story with us. I think moments such as the experience you had with the kestrel can offer a very powerful message of hope.You never know where you might discover a spark of belief, of trust and of connectivity with yourself if you remain open to the possibilities. I think it also shows your appreciation for life. Nature can be humbling, inspiring and full of wonder.

Wishing you serenity today.

[Chisholm]

Hi there

Just writing in because I have hit a low - nothing new - I'm sure you've all been there - that terrible ache. My husband and son have just left for the Orange River for a week - I'm hoping to spend the week bonding with my daughter which has been very difficult at times - there is always that one mirror image child who reminds you of so much you want to forget about yourself.

I am struggling with my therapy at the moment. My therapist is adamant that I not throw everything into the black pot and burn it (to be sure what he did was ethically unacceptable and morally completely wrong - I so get that) - that in some ways I have been enriched, if only because she and every other psych belives that he fell in love with me. Both my psychiatrist and psychologist (who know him well) believe that he saw his soulmate in me, that there was a 100% fit and that we saw each other's reflections in each other. Wherein lies the "gift"? Soulmate - aaaargh!! I aaargh because sometimes the concept of “his loving me” is just too fantastical to absorb, to believe and yet all those who dissect reality for a living would have me “absorb” it – wear it as my own. Soulmate – too much to digest.

X

[Luna-]

I think I can get that. I'd surely be struggling with the same in your position. I'd be wanting to say Whoa - can we slow down on looking at all the positives in it, just yet. Although I guess therapy is about moving forward. ... and we all get frustrated in therapy, if we didn't we wouldn't be working at it.

[Chisholm]

Done plenty of the negative/angry stuff and to an extent I was initially joined in that by my new therapist. My anger was very directly (as apposed to passive agressively) captured in the 10 page letter that I sent with my application for Peer Review to SASOP. To be sure - being judged by his own peers, suspended and being sent for his own depth therapy must have been a tad humiliating - some have volunteered that he got off too lightly, others (who know him well) suggest that this will be life changing for him. I only know what I feel and no amount of "justice" will ever heal that wound.

I guess it is about taking back my power? This concept of seeing each other's reflections - quite fascinating really. Do we see our reflection in the other and then strangely fall in love with it. Is that where taking back the projection comes from? Normally that would be quite straightforward - at least where the therapist is indeed a blank slate, the concept of taking back one's projection would be quite simple.

Three adjectives that I would use to describe myself; introspective, emotionally intense and very sensitive. I would be very curious to know what causes the projection that occurs within therapy. Do we project the attribute/feeling etc in an unconscious manner because we deny/disown it in ourselves ie we split off the feeling or is the projection simply something that naturally occurs in all interactions - perhaps more so in therapy because of the blank screen phenomenon? Would Alan have any answers for this (is he away at the moment - have not seen too many of his posts lately)?

Then it becomes more complicated - my ex-therapist (John) was far from a blank screen and it did not take much to work out what he was like. Three adjectives that I would use to describe myself; introspective, emotionally intense and very sensitive (some I own happily, others are not a comfortable fit). These are the same attributes that I saw in him. Normally one might suggest I was seeing my own projections but, and this is where it gets interesting, I recently asked John's ex-best friend how he would describe John. He described him in EXACTLY those terms. Guess that's where the 100% fit came in!! Well hell, how do I unscramble that and how do I take my projections back? How the hell do I work out what was my "stuff" and what was his?

Guess that is why it could never work with his "stuff" in the room.

[finding my way]

It really helps to have someone mirror back to us who we are. Especially if we did not get that in childhood. If we have a deeply wounded sense of self, that mirroring might need to be more expertly handled. In transference, it's the wound that pops up most readily. A responsible therapist will handle that content respectfully so that it doesn't damage the therapist/client relationship. Other relationships may be able to accomplish it, if one is lucky. The point is to transition from being the wound to being the healing to being comfortable in your own skin. In transference that keeps popping up and not resolving, all you get is more and more woundedness.

Maybe your wounds from abuse and family history and life in general are ready to turn a corner? Can you see them and how they operated in relationships? Now can you see where you want to be? The things that matter to you? You get to have those things. You are starting to be with people that will reflect back the things of you that you need for this next part in your journey.

[IrmaJean]

Do we see our reflection in the other and then strangely fall in love with it.

I have felt that I saw in my former therapist's eyes my own greatest potential. He had offered me unconditional positive regard and his holding of the boundaries then allowed me to safely explore different aspects of myself. So self-reflection, yes. I do think the boundaries got blurred some in your situation so it may be a bit more challenging to decipher. I don't think that has to mean that you can't. Your new therapist can hopefully help you with this.

I believe that transference happens in all relationships and even in casual interactions, though likely not with the same intensity that it may occur during therapy. I believe our unconscious minds "remember" experiences and the feelings and emotions we had about those experiences. Every moment of our existence now cannot deny the events of the past. The only true and completely pure experiences unflavored by the past would have to be our very first interactions with our caregivers. (My completely amateur and non-expert thoughts/opinions on the matter).

I noted in my therapy relationship my patterns of relating. I can tie all of these behaviors to my earliest relationships. And darned if I don't still catch myself doing the very same things within my relationships...but now I can recognize this and try to stop or at the very least have a more gentle understanding with myself. Transference is such a personal thing. I like to think of it as a blueprint of sorts. It's chock full of information about you. I would try...though I know it must be very difficult...to make it all about you. Take a look at your thoughts, feelings, needs, wants, behaviors and see what it all means about you. You mention being married. What then is empty within you, what need to be filled, that was filled during your time in therapy with your ex-therapist? And how now can these needs be met within your relationship with your husband?

Take care, Chisholm.

[Chisholm]

Guess that's the problem right there. So much of his stuff was playing out. I will never really know which was my stuff and which was his.

There might even be an argument for describing some of my stuff as countertransference to his transference!!!

X

[Chisholm]

This is adopted from the Prologue of the Alchemist

The alchemist picked up a book that someone in the caravan had brought. Leafing through the pages, he found a story about Narcissus.

The alchemist knew the legend of Narcissus, a youth who knelt daily beside a lake to contemplate his own beauty. He was so fascinated by himself that, one morning, he fell into the lake and drowned. At the spot where he fell, a flower was born, which was called the narcissus.

But this was not how the author of the book ended the story.

he said that when Narcissus died, the goddesses of the forest appeared and found the lake, which had been fresh water, transformed into a lake of salty tears.

“Why do you weep?” the goddesses asked.

“I weep for Narcissus,” the lake replied.

“Ah, it is no surprise that you weep for Narcissus,” they said, “for though we always pursued him in the forest, you alone could contemplate his beauty close at hand.”

“But…was Narcissus beautiful?” the lake asked.

“Who better than you to know that?” the goddesses said in wonder. “After all, it was by your banks that he knelt each day to contemplate himself!”

The lake was silent for some time. Finally, it said:

“I weep for Narcissus, but I never noticed that Narcissus was beautiful. I weep because, each time he knelt beside my banks, I could see, in the depths of his eyes, my own beauty reflected.”

“What a lovely story,” the alchemist thought.

[malign]

The great thing about mirrors, Chisholm, is that there isn't just one.

[IrmaJean]

What did you see, Chisholm? What is your beauty and how are you beautiful?

In seeing your own beauty, you know now of its presence in you. Let yourself bathe in that knowledge and try feeling it from within. It's okay to offer those gifts to yourself too.

Take gentle care.

[Chisholm]

Yesterday I asked my current therapist what I could learn from my patterns of relating to John, from the transference etc. Her reply was "very little". She felt that the relationship was so distorted by "his stuff/feelings" that I had very little choice but to employ the defence mechanisms I did - she felt that it was more a case of being borne out of necessity than any repeated pattern from the past playing out. All the extreme anxiety, passive aggression and emotional instability reflected the situation I found myself in far more than it did any transference pattern.

Thinking about it, I guess she could be right. There was a huge pink elephant sitting in the room and we could not discuss it. He could be "authentic" but not "declarative"? Well I guess it stands to reason that I would only be focussed on the pink elephant - who wouldn't? Deep down I knew things were not as they should be but I was too "hooked" to be able to/to want to work out what was wrong. All that unbelievable anxiety - I thought it was my pathology playing out - apparently anybody would have been anxious under those circumstances. The inconsistencies were torturous for me and how does one NOT become anxious when one's therapist tells you that "he feels threatened by his own feelings"????

My one weakness that did play out - my tendency to take responsibility for other people's feelings - well he really milked that one in the end.

I suggested that my cutting my wrists and overdosing was my responsibility and my weakness - she disagreed - she felt that the emotional abuse that I experienced in the end was more than most people would be able to bear. She feels that I was so traumatised that I dissociated before I slit my wrists. I have attached an excerpt from something I sent him after the episode:

“You will never know what it is to believe you are delusional, what it is to have your mind attack your every intuition until finally you just start pleading for blackness, for sleep – anything to shut out the noise. When you denied everything (in a nutshell you were telling me that everything I felt was not real, everything I saw was not real, everything I trusted was not real….), I remember the roaring in my ears, the pain in my chest – everything froze and then I felt like I was floating. When I drove off I remember looking down at my arms on the steering wheel – they were not my own – I don’t know what happened after that, I literally lost time. No matter the truth, the fact that you could let me walk away in that state…

I don't know what I need to learn from all of this and even now - I still wonder whether I saw things as regards his feelings correctly...

[IrmaJean]

From the excerpt and what you have described, it sure sounds as if you may have disassociated.

Maybe there is a simple lesson to be learned and that is in your resolve and inner strength. You're fighting and finding your way. I hope that talking about your feelings has offered you some relief even though doing so can be confusing and painful at times. I'm sorry that all of this happened to you, Chisholm.

[Luna-]

Sounds like pretty classic dissociation. Quite common with abuse, so it makes sense.

I think what you wrote about what your therapist said, is very wise advice. It wasn't your stuff, it was his. Yours was a response to his stuff that he compounded by being so duplicitous about. She sounds really good. You are probably more healthy and intact at the core, than you trust yourself to be or that you realise.

How does this sit with you?

[Chisholm]

Thank you Luna - I really appreciate those words (and might add that I think that you have an enormous ability to see things so clearly and cut to the chase so quickly - a skill that cannot come from an unhealthy mind!!!).

Yes - one of the unfortunate side effects of all this trauma is to doubt one's mental health altogether - that together with all the intellectualising that took place with John, added to a sense of pathology. One of the more positive things that has come out of this (and I can assure you that in the beginning my new psychiatrist was quite ready to find me neurotic, unstable, a BPD bullly (an easy hop, skip and jump presumption given the CSA background) - anything to explain away John's guilt - until she got to know me......) is that both the new psychiatrist and psychologist feel that I have no pathology (other than having experienced severe major depression and survivng a hectic past). That my reactions to the trauma that I went through with John were to be expected given the unbelievable abuse - again though, I don't think it was intentional - I do see the human factor but unfortunately it does nothing to lessen the pain.

You are probably aware of the Health24 website we have in SA - Cybershrink? This whole episode (as I outlined some of the details on the website) sparked a raging debate amongst a bunch of shrinks (don't know who they were) about the potential for damage inherent in psychoanalysis - Cybershrink was particularly outspoken in his condemnation thereof and in fact got hauled over the coals by his editor for this. He felt that psychoanalysis encouraged navel-gazing, dependency and a tendency to over-pathologize - he felt that such power in the hands of an incompetent therapist was way too easy to exploit. Certainly made me think, although I kinda last interest when he spewed forth vitriol about John being a predator, gigolo and the-rapist!!

The damage - enormous damage to my self belief, abandonment all over again, betrayal and yes blatant abuse (whether it was intentional or not).

There are times when the enormity of it is just too much for me - the fact that he risked my life (although again perhaps unintentional) - I know I dissociated. The fact that he tried to blame me in the end. The fact that he regarded his profession as so much more NB than a human life - even one he supposedly cared for. The fact that even now he has not bothered to pick up the phone to my psychiatrist and at least enquire as to my welfare regardless of the legal advice he might have received. There are times when I cannot even conceive of such betrayal, dishonesty and moral wrongdoing. What is supposed to detract from this - the fact that he is apparently such an intense, well meaning person who by all accounts from his colleagues supposedly fell in love with me? The fact that all the psychiatrists think that this was far more than just transference and countertransference - I have often wondered at the manner in which this "social construct" gets bandied about, depending on who is using it - again a wonderful psychoanalytic bit of useless information that seems expedient only to those who hide behind it. How does any person that is supposedly in love with another act in such a manner? Some suggest that once the lawyers got involved he had no choice - but I am afraid that much like Frankl, I don't believe in the concept of having no choice. There are times when I don't think I am going to make it because the pain is just too much.

I would love to know Dr Shwartz's opinion of all of this but I have noticed that he has not been around for a while?

[Chisholm]

I woke up this morning - very wobbly. Riddled with doubt - it seems to go in waves like this for me. How do you trust yourself and how do you trust a therapist that tells you that your ex-therapist fell in love with you????

Not being able to trust yourself and in turn those around you - sometimes I think I am better off dead...

[IrmaJean]

I'm on my way to work and don't have much time, but I want you to know that I'm listening and I care. Can you call your therapist if you are feeling distraught? I hope the pain passes soon. Take gentle care.