Conflicting Thoughts Regarding the State of my Future

[Pakhawaj]

I'm sorry finding my way, I have not looked up about parts of myself, but I think I understand. Sometimes, I am very selfish and other times I am depressed. So, I censored the selfish part of me as the depressed part. I'm very sorry if I am still misunderstanding.

We seem to have a communication problem. I did not say that you broke any rules. What I told you is that you are free to talk about anything you need to talk about here.

Oh, I'm sorry. I thought that because you are the administrator and that you told me not to do something, that you were unhappy about me breaking a rule. Sorry.

I am wondering about this miscommunication. Does it happen often to you? Is this part of the way you end up attacking yourself?

I don't think so, I just misunderstood.

Yes, I'm simple-minded.

Still my motives are complex enough not to explain them usually.

I suppose I did understand that you deleted your post, because you felt ashamed, but I wondered if that feeling was triggered by something in your post or in mine. It can be useful for you to know what caused a switch in your feelings, because that's often were unhelpful distortions in ones thinking occur.

I'm sorry, I can't remember. I believe there was nothing in your post which influenced my decisions.

I'm sorry it has taken me some time to reply, I have felt particularly unmotivated of late. I've attempted to cancel my therapy meetings, though informally because my therapist wanted to continue seeing me, I don't know what she will do. I can't bare to continue being so selfish. I'm really sorry for everything I have said and done whilst on these forums. I don't know what I can do. I'm scared that I won't have enough courage to do what is right and will just remain in this house, I can never become mature, all I can do is live until I die. Whatever, I'm sorry. I'll try to stop myself from posting here and I have organised it so I can stay in a hotel for Christmas, I need to do the right thing.

[finding my way]

To do this type of "parts" work you take a look at this dynamic here:

I censored the selfish part of me as the depressed part.

You have a polarization between opposing parts of you going on. Get to know these 2 and their motivations. They have reasons for being the way they are, and they need the "witness" you to hear them out. (There are many, many parts to us.)

Your depression has strongly activated your censor. Your censor is trying to keep you together by denying any part of you that he perceives as selfish. He is working very very hard on this. You can tell him that you understand he is very concerned. Maybe he can tell you what is so dangerous about selfishness? He will have a reason. If you let him express himself, your witness will get to know what his motivations are, and some of them may have been hidden in the subconscious, needing to come out and be heard. It doesn't mean he is right about selfishness, you need to know. But he will have important reasons for thinking the way he does, and they need to be heard.

[Guest SomethingOrOther]

Hi Pakhawaj,

maybe you can notice the change from one state to the other better next time it happens and see what brings it about. I don't think you did anyone harm posting here, but it's your decision if this helps you or not. I hope you have a nice christmas,

S.

[Pakhawaj]

I couldn't kill myself on Christmas. I don't really know what to do now, I don't really feel capable of doing anything. I'm sorry.

I've been starving myself, I've pissed off my family, I've secluded myself and deprived myself of warmth but I don't feel any worse for it. I don't know what to do, nothing works. I'm sorry.

[Guest SomethingOrOther]

Hi Pakhawaj,

I'm glad you didn't kill yourself on Christmas.

Regardless of capability is there something you'd like to do or something you want? "Nothing works" to achieve what?

What to do, literally, well, I just watched a youtube video about depression: http://www.youtube.com/user/OUlearn#p/c/73A4447161A26CCA/0/lUh76xjQPjQ

Stephen Fry made a documentary about manic depression a few years ago, but that's no longer online as far as I can see. I think he described the feeling he had after he didn't kill himself as one where all the problems are still there and the way up looks incredibly far.

I also found the christmas special of Doctor who (posted by CrazyWhoFan), which I found heartwarming, if you enjoy things like that.

Trivial, I know. But I don't seem to find a handle in your post to access it, mentally. I'm rather not sure whether you're trying to feel better or worse and that somewhat makes a difference in what exactly you feel like. I'm sorry you're feeling so bad at the moment.

[Pakhawaj]

I want to die, but I am too cowardly and selfish.

I don't have depression, all those psychiatrists and psychologists and councillors have all said they don't know what I have. I can't help but feel selfish about it.

I was trying to feel worse, but I don't know how I can feel worse if none of the things I've done have helped. All my other options seem too horrible to consider. I'm not trying to do anything now, I don't know what I can do.

edit: actually, watching this programme; perhaps I do have depression. Though it must be abnormal somehow or surely doctors and the like wouldn't comment.

[Guest SomethingOrOther]

It’s possible that your therapists are trying to identify some underlying diagnosis or cause or figure out where to fit you into the mental health model and maybe in the end they decide you don’t have depression. But it doesn’t matter that much, because I know what you have, it’s: „feeling bad about yourself and wanting to die“.

Do you think you can talk to your therapist about the way you’re feeling now? Maybe you can prompt them to come up with some better ideas about helping you? Is it possible you don’t feel worse, because none of the things you can do to yourself are as bad as what you can think?

It’s difficult to have a mental health problem and I find it helpful to see „famous“ people talk about it sometimes, just to remind myself that I might differ from the norm, but that doesn’t mean other people are better than me (though a lot of them might actually think that way). Besides, I don’t see anything brave and noble about killing yourself, but I know that’s a wrong idea a lot of suicidal people have. I can hear that you feel desperate. If that isn’t too stupid a question: What would dying actually be good for? There might be other ways to achieve that.

[Pakhawaj]

I've stopped seeing my therapist, or I am trying to at least.

Dying would be good for me, so I wouldn't have to continue living. It'd be good for the people who love me because I am in their lives, it'd be good for people I've met because to a certain extent, I'm also in theirs. It'd be good for everyone I haven't met because they wouldn't have to potentially meet me.

Realistically, I can't see a way of permanently removing myself from other people's or my own existence without killing myself. I've thought about becoming a hermit but I'd still be in my own existence and I wouldn't trust other people enough to not try to contact me.

[Guest SomethingOrOther]

Yes, you want to die, because you want to stop living. But that's not the reason I was looking for. Maybe I should have asked what it is about living that you want to stop experiencing?

I suspect one of the things you want to stop experiencing is the burden of being responsible for all the things you think you are responsible for, especially other peoples lifes. I've already tried to convince you not to take on responsibility that isn't yours, so now I'll tell you that the argument it would be good for people who love you is a bit flawed instead.

By definition, they love you, thus when you're dead, they'll experience a sense of loss. That is pretty much a fact. What you build your reasoning on is that it somehow ends up being good for them, which is merely an assumption. I suppose what I'm saying is you just overruled a fact with an assumption and maybe you think they're both fact.

I don't see you influencing my life negatively for a start. You couldn't make me answer your posts if I didn't want to and I think you're a very considerate person and I also realise you can't make a lot of sense of yourself, but I doubt you're as abnormal as you think. It's nice talking to you. Myself I'd find it difficult to talk to some very chatty people on here, because I'd feel forced to commit to some sort of group-thing.

Falling short of becoming a hermit, do you think you could move into your own flat, so that you have more control over the contact to other people?

[Pakhawaj]

I'm really sorry I'm so very stupid.

I'm sorry I answered your question so literally although I suspected what you actually meant. I don't know why I am cruel sometimes.

You are right, that it is an assumption that people would be better off without me, I recognise that but everything anyone does is based off assumptions, one can't know anything especially when it comes to other people, which is why assumptions are necessary.

You don't know if I am affecting your life, as much as I don't know if I am this is also an assumption your your part. The majority of one's life experiences are taken through the subconscious and who knows to what extent I am affecting your thoughts subliminally. I think you're right though, I can't imagine I'm affecting you much, I hope I am not.

Thank you for your compliments, I hope I am not disguising my wretchedness through my words.

I have briefly contemplated getting a flat, but in my imagination, it is just further punishment. Though I do deserve punishment, I don't like it and I am selfish enough to avoid it unless I make a promise to myself. I don't think that you mean for it to be a punishment though so I don't understand why you are suggesting it, currently I am in my dad's house, which is large and I can live without much contact.

I would like to travel and become educated but everything I do leads to me ostracising and criticising and hating myself. This is another reason, why I cannot get a flat.

I'm sorry if this post is difficult to read, I fear I'm becoming too unintelligent to form articulate sentences any more.

[Guest SomethingOrOther]

Well, I thought it was funny, but I held back from saying that, because I figured that wouldn't turn out the way I want. This occured to me shortly after I made a reference to vampires, which I found rather amusing.

I guess you wouldn't have assumed that.

There's no denying you're affecting me, or else I'm talking to thin air. I don't see you affecting me negatively, though. I even consider it possible that you affect me positively, what tells you that you don't?

I didn't know you'd see a flat as punishment, I suggested it, because it seemed to be a way to partly serve your wish for isolation.

[Guest SomethingOrOther]

Do you know what places you'd like to travel? What is it that gets in the way of travelling or educating yourself?

[Guest ASchwartz]

Hi Pak,

We do not want you to die and nothing you write is stupid or hard to read. Now is not the time to stop seeing your therapist. In fact you should tell your therapist how awful you feel and that you are having thoughts of wanting to die. Are you taking any anti depressant medications? Seems like it might help you get through right now?

I'm worried about you.

Allan

[Pakhawaj]

Edit2: I'm sorry for editing again, but I am also sorry that this post is so boring. If you are sick of my posts, please do not feel obliged to read it.

_

I'm really sorry I did not reply to your post initially. I felt embarrassed because I did not understand what you were saying and I didn't know how to politely respond, it was impolite of me to simply not respond too, so I am sorry.

If I got a flat I know I would still be acknowledged by other people and most likely visited, I don't believe I can prevent this. I also know I would not buy food, I realise this is an incredibly selfish reason for not getting a flat but sometimes my wish for food overcomes my wish to do good (though of course I recognise I can do no good, I still fruitlessly and lazily attempt to). I am too lazy and selfish to starve myself. Also, I would have to be in contact with my landlord I'd imagine, I have not been outside (barring the days around Christmas) for a long time and so my hair is long which make me look unkempt and I wouldn't wish to look pitiful or worthy of anger. I'm sure my posture makes me look like a charver too.

Hi Pak,

We do not want you to die and nothing you write is stupid or hard to read.

As I have said. I am too cowardly to die. I think this defeated stance is possibly the cause of my cowardice, but I do not have the willpower to overcome it. I hope you are telling the truth when you say you can read what I type without difficulty, for some reason, I don't feel sufficiently sorry for doubting you and I am very sorry for this; I am an innately bad person.

Now is not the time to stop seeing your therapist. In fact you should tell your therapist how awful you feel and that you are having thoughts of wanting to die.

I cannot continue seeing my therapist, she does not know what to do and this worries her. I always want to die, I imagine most people who've met me can sense this, there is no need for concern, it is pathetic rather than desperate.

Are you taking any anti depressant medications? Seems like it might help you get through right now?

I'm not and I don't wish to. It would be a symbol of my giving up on my extermination. Even if I don't believe I can do it, maybe I will one day.

I'm worried about you.

You can't know how sickening I am and I cannot believe you are worried about a strange, whining person on the internet, I realise this statement is incredibly offensive but it is true. I'm sorry.

I'm really sorry to both of you for being so offensive in these posts, as I continue living I discontinue to care, I'm sorry.

I'm also sorry for my terrible writing style and spelling, I've stopped going over my posts or even checking for simple errors despite my wish to be understood, I do stupid things for reasons which I'm unsure of sometimes.

Edit: I'm sorry for lying, as I edited this post soon after I posted it.

[IrmaJean]

Alex, do you realize that you apologized 12 times in your previous post? Not only that, but you continually berate yourself throughout. It would be easy to succumb to self-defeat with that type of treatment. Maybe the time has come to challenge your own behaviors? The next time you are feeling sorry about something, maybe you might try expressing why this feeling has come up in you (and not by berating yourself...this distances you from the actual truths). It can be helpful to be self-aware.

Have you tried finding a positive thought or written about something which is beautiful to you? It might be helpful in getting some endorphins going. If you were to challenge yourself, you might even consider finding something which you view as mundane...anything really...from your surrounding environment. Try finding something beautiful about it and then describing that beauty. You need to get some positive energy flowing, Alex. I am also concerned about your well-being. You may form a judgment in your mind that I am not or could not be, but that would be your mind making assumptions based on your feelings and not mine. Take care today.

[Guest SomethingOrOther]

I'm quite used to people not understanding what I'm saying and I think compared to other reactions I had to this, yours was quite polite. It doesn't mean you have to be embarrassed about it, it means I have to explain myself better. So, I don't know what you felt like saying, but the polite way to say "this is all complete gibberish and you're an idiot for not noticing, you're furthermore irresponsible for confronting me with it and also you pretty much suck substantially" would be "this post doesn't make sense to me."

The only important thing I said was that you seem determined to assume you can't have a positive influence on people. I wondered what is so unbelievable about this possibility?

I'm not sure if I found a proper translation for "charver", but maybe you could cut your own hair. I cut my own hair, but it's probably easier for me being a girl. I think short haircuts are more difficult. On the other hand, if it doesn't work, you can still go to a hairdresser and have it shortened in a nicer way.

[Pakhawaj]

Alex, do you realize that you apologized 12 times in your previous post? Not only that, but you continually berate yourself throughout. It would be easy to succumb to self-defeat with that type of treatment. Maybe the time has come to challenge your own behaviors? The next time you are feeling sorry about something, maybe you might try expressing why this feeling has come up in you (and not by berating yourself...this distances you from the actual truths). It can be helpful to be self-aware.

I'm sorry if it was annoying, I said a lot of things which were perhaps undue or unnecessary, so I had a lot to apologise for, I'd feel uncomfortable knowing I'd done something wrong and not apologised for my actions.

I hadn't realised that I had continuously berated myself, sometimes I feel like I have to remind myself what type of person I am, I've made posters for the room I'm in which also help to remind me, I need to remember because sometimes I forget only to suddenly remember at an inopportune moment, if I can remember at all time it can prevent mishaps.

Have you tried finding a positive thought or written about something which is beautiful to you? It might be helpful in getting some endorphins going. If you were to challenge yourself, you might even consider finding something which you view as mundane...anything really...from your surrounding environment. Try finding something beautiful about it and then describing that beauty. You need to get some positive energy flowing, Alex. I am also concerned about your well-being. You may form a judgment in your mind that I am not or could not be, but that would be your mind making assumptions based on your feelings and not mine. Take care today.

I don't really understand but I've just done this though perhaps it was not what you had in mind. I wrote about a moderately attractive attractive jug. I'd feel uncomfortable sullying the things I find beautiful with my clumsy words.

I'm quite used to people not understanding what I'm saying and I think compared to other reactions I had to this, yours was quite polite. It doesn't mean you have to be embarrassed about it, it means I have to explain myself better. So, I don't know what you felt like saying, but the polite way to say "this is all complete gibberish and you're an idiot for not noticing, you're furthermore irresponsible for confronting me with it and also you pretty much suck substantially" would be "this post doesn't make sense to me."

I didn't mean to insult you, I think it's probable that I was too dim to understand. I'm glad you didn't think I was overly rude.

The only important thing I said was that you seem determined to assume you can't have a positive influence on people. I wondered what is so unbelievable about this possibility?

I've been asked this before, it's a strange thing to answer from my perspective but I understand that other people don't hate or understand me as much as they could. What is unbelievable about anything unbelievable? Why should my ability to have a positive influence have any more validity than a unicorn?

I'm not sure if I found a proper translation for "charver", but maybe you could cut your own hair. I cut my own hair, but it's probably easier for me being a girl. I think short haircuts are more difficult. On the other hand, if it doesn't work, you can still go to a hairdresser and have it shortened in a nicer way.

I'm sorry, I presumed you were English, I don't know why. I should not be using slang on a worldwide forum I suppose. A charver is a diminutive term for a certain subculture, it's unfair to say that they have bad posture, I'm sorry.

I'd be just as embarrassed with a personal haircut as I am with my current head of hair. The only two hairdressers I trust I know personally, i could see my barber but I would be embarrassed about going outside nonetheless. Thank you for replying to this, even though it does not strictly concern mental health. I appreciate it.

Edit: I'm sorry, I missed your other message.

If I could, it doesn't matter where I'd travel, as long as it isn't in the British Isles. I am too afraid of becoming too afraid to become educated to become educated. I am also very much afraid of not meeting peoples' expectations.

[IrmaJean]

...I feel like I have to remind myself what type of person I am' date=' I've made posters for the room I'm in which also help to remind me...[/quote']

This reinforces your assumptions about yourself and likely the painful feelings that go along with it. Why are you hurting yourself like this, Alex? You are a human being, like any of us, who deserves kindness, care and respect.

I'd feel uncomfortable sullying the things I find beautiful with my clumsy words.

You'd be writing for yourself' date=' not for me or anyone else. Your expressions, when coming from your heart, could be nothing other than beautiful.

Why should my ability to have a positive influence have any more validity than a unicorn?

Why should your perceived inability have any more validity than a unicorn? It's what you give power to, Alex. You're focused on the negative and have not allowed yourself to consider other possibilities. Are you fearful of considering your own worth and value?

[Pakhawaj]

This reinforces your assumptions about yourself and likely the painful feelings that go along with it. Why are you hurting yourself like this, Alex? You are a human being, like any of us, who deserves kindness, care and respect.

You are right, I am definitely human, though this is only the definition of the species I belong to. I'm not so sure I deserve those things.

You'd be writing for yourself, not for me or anyone else. Your expressions, when coming from your heart, could be nothing other than beautiful.

You are definitely right. I was thinking about this and I actually went back to this post to remedy my statement. I suppose I was being melodramatic, though I am evil I can speak of beauty, I know that I can.

Why should your perceived inability have any more validity than a unicorn? It's what you give power to, Alex. You're focused on the negative and have not allowed yourself to consider other possibilities. Are you fearful of considering your own worth and value?

I'm sorry for that awful phrase, I could not think of a better word than validity though I'm sure one exists. These sort of thoughts sicken me, I literally feel queasy and unwell upon their conjuration, I'm certain I am shit.

[IrmaJean]

I'm not so sure I deserve those things.

You do. All of us do.

You are definitely right. I was thinking about this and I actually went back to this post to remedy my statement. I suppose I was being melodramatic' date=' though I am evil I can speak of beauty, I know that I can.[/quote']

Alex, why are you sure that you are evil? If you're comfortable with sharing, I'd love to read anything you've written.

I'm sorry for that awful phrase' date=' I could not think of a better word than validity though I'm sure one exists.[/quote']

You don't ever need to be sorry for expressing yourself here, as long as you are respectful of yourself and others. I was hoping that you might try challenging the negative thought.

These sort of thoughts sicken me' date=' I literally feel queasy and unwell upon their conjuration, I'm certain I am shit.[/quote'] And it sickens you to think otherwise? It's painful to consider your worth and value as a person? Why do you think that is?

Alex, I hope you consider going back to your therapist. Keep talking and working with her. Maybe you can come to see your own value and worth.

[Guest SomethingOrOther]

See, I can’t prove that unicorns don’t exist. However, I could with a bit of time probably show that they have a dominant habit of being „made up“.

The thing is that to you the idea that you have a negative influence on people is valid and the idea that you have a positive influence on people isn’t. You could argue for one idea or the other by digging up experiences that might be relevant, without ever being able to conclusively prove anything beyond doubt. But as such, both ideas are unicorns. You’ve just decided that one exists and the other doesn’t.

That’s what happens when you throw in unicorns.

I suppose you thought I was English, because I’m so good at it. :cool:

I'd be just as embarrassed with a personal haircut as I am with my current head of hair.

Just as I imagined... there is nothing to lose.

I'm sorry, I had a bit of a clown for lunch, apparently. That isn't at all times very helpful in conversation with someone who's feeling low, because there's the risk you'll feel really not understood at all. In that case ignore what I have said and I shall come back wearing a more serious face next time.

S.

[Pakhawaj]

Alex, why are you sure that you are evil? If you're comfortable with sharing, I'd love to read anything you've written.

I'm sorry, I'm not really comfortable with sharing. I didn't write much anyway.

You don't ever need to be sorry for expressing yourself here, as long as you are respectful of yourself and others. I was hoping that you might try challenging the negative thought.

I'm not absolutely certain what you mean. Perhaps I should, I don't know. I'll probably change my mind later when I am feeling fickle and obstinate (if such a thing isn't an oxymoron).

And it sickens you to think otherwise? It's painful to consider your worth and value as a person? Why do you think that is?

It isn't painful, it's similar to the feeling one gets before they throw up. I'm not sure why it is, something about wrongness I suppose.

Alex, I hope you consider going back to your therapist. Keep talking and working with her. Maybe you can come to see your own value and worth.

I don't think I will do this.

_

Maybe you are right, I'll read this post again when I want to think about it.

Also your post made me laugh, which I imagine from your perspective is a good thing. I'm tempted to be jovial in return but I don't think I should allow myself things like that.

I'm sorry that this post is fairly worthless.

[Guest SomethingOrOther]

Yes, laughing would be a good thing for me. But I can see how it becomes twisted, when feeling better isn't the interest you have.

I'd have time for a holiday now, but although I thought that's what I'd do when my work is finished, after years of not having one, now I don't feel like.. putting in the effort. I couldn't say where I want to go, but at least I've arranged to meet some friends in a different city next week.

You said earlier that your therapist doesn't know how to help you and that worries her. But I wonder if you'd sense a difference between "worrying" in your sense and "caring" in the sense that she's been qualified for? The way I understand it, you think you cause her negative feelings. Now I can't think of a way to say this that doesn't sound odd.. (surprisingly ) but in a sense, she's been trained to not be negatively affected by that. So, maybe you'd have to trust her ability to handle it, because that's one of the abilities she ought to have?

S.

[Pakhawaj]

I've thought about what you said (about unicorns), and I'll concede that nothing is absolute or even comprehensible by anyone. I don't know, I always seem happier in Winter so that may be the only reason I've allowed myself to question myself so opaquely, I could wait another Season to relinquish these feelings for more familiar ones but I know I'd just be doing it out of fear. I went through this phase last year and it didn't work out well for me.

It seems really harsh to say, but if everyone I care about were dead I wouldn't have this crippling fear that anything I could do might hurt them. I really want to just run away and disregard any perceived notions of mine that I'm responsible for everyone, but obviously that is not very likely.

You said earlier that your therapist doesn't know how to help you and that worries her. But I wonder if you'd sense a difference between "worrying" in your sense and "caring" in the sense that she's been qualified for? The way I understand it, you think you cause her negative feelings. Now I can't think of a way to say this that doesn't sound odd.. (surprisingly ) but in a sense, she's been trained to not be negatively affected by that. So, maybe you'd have to trust her ability to handle it, because that's one of the abilities she ought to have?

I considered this a long time ago, it was why I allowed myself to get involved in the first place, though she has said herself that she likes and cares about me. My mam was trained regarding mental health too and I know she can't deal with me sometimes; it's an unfair comparison I know, but it's what I think.

I'm going avoid my therapist because that is what I have decided to do and I am stubborn.

I'm really sorry for being so horrible.

[Guest SomethingOrOther]

I'm quite tired, I might find a better reply another time, but I wanted to say that I think it makes sense.

It's not difficult for me to accept that this is your decision and I think that is one thing I might have more in common with your therapist than your mother.

I find the best way I know to be able to talk to people who might hurt themselves is to accept that it is ultimately their decision and not mine. If I felt my words place responsibility for other peoples lifes on me, I'd probably say a lot less.

..

I'm making a bit of a jump there I think? I don't mean that avoiding your therapist is the same as hurting yourself, I mean it's important to me for being able to talk to people on a mental health site at all, that it's them making decisions in their lifes and being responsible for it and not me. I hope that makes it more clear, though I'm not terribly convinced.