Depressed people? Go to the Lounge...

[Athena]

I just felt compelled to direct everybody who's reading here to the Lounge to watch "A boy and his dog", which Allan shared. How can anyone be depressed after watching this?

[Guest SomethingOrOther]

I take it as an attempt to help, but I'm still going to say that I find that question insulting. Also, no I didn't watch it, because it's not available in my counrty.

[Athena]

Something or other. OMG I see your point, after staring at it for a while. I'm so sorry. If anybody knows how to change a thread title or delete the thread completely, please let me know.

[malign]

I think the question was meant to be a statement, along the lines of "This video helped cheer me up from my depression, and I think it might help others, too." :-)

Words are all we have to communicate with, and for many members, English isn't their first language. That means it pays to be careful how you say things, but it also means that, if the intention is clear, it pays to let some things go ...

[Guest SomethingOrOther]

Oh, now I was overreacting, because this isn’t my first language and people need to be patient and write more slowly so that I can follow their meaning.

A moment ago I was just depressed, because I haven’t seen a three minute video, which is so life-changing that everyone not getting better from watching it must really be past their expiry date.

I’m glad you got my point and I hope it’s obvious that depressed people can get it very wrong, when you appear to minimize their depression. At least that’s what I intended to point out and I think it’s worth pointing that out in a depression forum, not least because that directly prevents that people who take it badly feel like nobody understands what they’re going through. I think of it as balancing things out.

[malign]

Nope, you weren't "overreacting". You'll find there's no such word in what I wrote, SoO. I agree with you that it's very easy for depressed people to feel as if their feelings are being minimized.

I also didn't say that this had anything to do with English not being your first language. I don't know what language 'Athena' was brought up on, and I know many other people here who are using a language that's not their own. I myself spent two years in a French-speaking country in Africa, as a child; believe me, I have every sympathy.

Having heard Athena's apology, I simply thought to suggest to everyone not to take things so seriously. You said you found it insulting, and your post stands, as written. I just had a different opinion ...

[Athena]

SOmething or Other and Malign,

Thanks for your comments. I don't feel so badly now. Perhaps I should have just said "feeling depressed today?". I have been severely depressed since childhood, so I would never, ever make light of it. It's interesting though that I have been compelled to visit the BiPolar pages lately because of my rapid mood swings. "Poor judgement" is one of the symptoms of the manic phase. Wow, I've been having a lot of that lately! Anyway, don't worry, I'm not fretting too much over this. And yes, English is my first language, but I believe that communicating over the Internet is a special subset of that.

[Guest SomethingOrOther]

Athena, thank you for making this more clear. I’m angry about maligns post now, and that has nothing to do with you, but I’ll answer it here.

Malign, if it’s not my first language we’re talking about, you apparently just brought it up to detract from the subject and hide your opinion behind a commonplace.

Of course, your opinion also isn’t that it was careless of me to post at all, since I could just have let it go.

[IrmaJean]

SoO, I can't speak for Malign, though it seems that Athena intended no harm. I'm aware that knowing this doesn't mean you didn't feel hurt. I'm sorry that you were upset. I wouldn't want either of you to feel hurt by this. Sometimes it can be challenging to express that in a way so that both sides hear it. I'm pretty sure we're all on the same page of wanting to be supportive and helpful to one another.

[Guest SomethingOrOther]

Of course, Athena intended no harm. That’s the very first thing I said. Interesting you should think that’s what we have differing opinions about.

[IrmaJean]

I simply meant that it's challenging sometimes to take care of and protect everyone, even when that is exactly your intention. Well, it is for me sometimes anyway...

[Guest ASchwartz]

Hi Somethingorother,

I am having difficulty understanding what the anger is about? Could you or someone clarify?

Allan

[malign]

SoO,

The last thing I want to do is argue. I'm sorry if what I said was hurtful.

I would far rather have a conversation about what happened than an argument.

It's possible that I misunderstood what you said. Communication is always between multiple people, and depends as much on the recipient as the sender. So, I would like to make the effort to understand your feelings.

You did say that you understood that 'Athena' did not intend harm, but you also said you were insulted.

Can we discuss that in more detail? It sounds somewhat contradictory, to me, and I want to understand.

[LaLa]

Hello, everybody,

I'm reading this thread and I feel (not for the 1st time on this forum) that you all here give and excellent example to everybody - how nicely people can communicate, even when internet (or language) pose some problems. (Please, don't see any irony there - I mean it seriously!) I love the way how you express how you care about being understood right and not to ofend anyone. I just wanted to say that... the world would be wonderful if everybody cared so much (and expressed it so nicely) about how others feel about his/her statements and tried to explain them as clearly as possible...

[Guest SomethingOrOther]

I didn’t say I was insulted and I don’t see a contradiction, because people are perfectly capable of meaning well and making mistakes.

What’s far more interesting to me is what things one would better let go, if that wasn’t refering to me voicing an opinion.

[malign]

Absolutely, it's easy to mean well and still make mistakes. I do it myself rather often. :-)

I'm going to quote your post here so that it's clear what I was responding to:

I take it as an attempt to help, but I'm still going to say that I find that question insulting. Also, no I didn't watch it, because it's not available in my counrty.

I took that to mean that you felt insulted; I could have misunderstood.

My response (which may have been in error, as well; that's what I believe we're discussing) was based on the feeling that your opinion, which you have every right to express, was expressed in a manner which would only cause further distress. What I was attempting to do was to acknowledge your concerns and her good intentions, at the same time, because it seemed to me that that course offered the least hurt to all.

My goal is to make this the safest possible place for the most possible people, but I admit my capacity to make mistakes.

[Guest SomethingOrOther]

further distress, added to the one I cause by existing?

See, I didn't hear you say "I think your opinion was expressed in a manner that causes people distress". Guess what, I've noticed I could have expressed myself better, but I found it difficult to offer more explanations, feeling a little insulted.

What I heard you say was "if the intention is clear, it pays to let some things go". What that MEANS is: "you're obviously insulted, which makes the whole point of your post seeking emotional vengeance, since it's not possible to feel something and still have a well considered motivation for posting that involves sound judgement, thus, you're so blinded by your emotions, I can only assume you haven't quite noticed what the intention behind the other post was and you've made your only point, that you're insulted, so you'd really better just let it go now. Think of Ahab and the whale, it just doesn't pay."

Why would that possibly make me angry?

You might notice my interpretation doesn't involve a lot of "acknowledging my concern". You've acknowledged that it's so difficult to find the right wording, especially since there's so many foreigners nowadays . You haven't acknowledged that many people write unhelpful comments, not because they're not poets, but because they don't realise how "cheer up!" does simply not go down well with depressed people. It doesn't pay to let that go, it pays to remind people that there is a simple truth that applies to a lot of conversations they'll have with depressed people.

[Guest ASchwartz]

Hello Everyone,

I want to suggest to all of you that this discussion is becoming convoluted and confusing. In fact, the more everyone attempts to discuss it the deeper everyone gets into a profitless debate. My sense is that there is misunderstanding all around and this is best left alone. Does everyone agree?

Allan

[Guest SomethingOrOther]

I tend to have that effect on people.

However, I am merely discussing with malign why his post made me angry, and though he will disagree with me a lot, I appreciate that he is interested in understanding that. The discussion on my part, it seems, is not actually more complicated than taking „it pays to let some things go“ to mean „the point you’re making is useless“, which is not an interpretation as far off as you could wish, and the discussion is probably almost done now, since I think I have explained myself pretty much as well as I can, and malign has already made clear that he didn’t mean to post something hurtful.

Just that I don’t accept broad apologies, when people clearly don’t know what they did, because... think about it... that’s pointless. I’m not interested in people apologizing, I’m interested in people understanding me.

Given that I am myself, that can be a difficult interest to have.

[randomperson]

Might I say that is a huge problem I have is communicating the right words via text. It is so tricky especially when you are hurting. So many times what you write can be taken totally differently than what you feel, and what you read can have a different meaning depending on how you are feeling when you read it. Side note this is the main reason I suggest anyone who is deeply depressed not to try online dating at the time, personal experience it is not pleasant Personally I feel just talking to nice people helps my depression.

Plenty of nice people here

[LaLa]

I’m interested in people understanding me.

Given that I am myself, that can be a difficult interest to have.

I do understand you, at least in this thread ... And I'm sure now Malign does, too... But I see why you find it difficult in general. Some people (and this comment is not related to Allan or any other member here!) are too superficial, impatient, ... and don't wanna "use their brain" and take a time to understand somebody who appears "too complicated" at first glance ...

randomperson:

Plenty of nice people here

I'm glad you feel it too ...

[Athena]

Hi guys. Boy, did I ever start something! Just wandered over here after my "urgent help" post. I was surprised the conversation was still going. I think we're all just trying to connect. Good or bad, angry, or kind, or insulted, or misunderstood. At least we know somebody's out there listening. I think I'll go to back to the video now and see if it helps me.