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Looking forward to A HUG!!!


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Hi, Linda,

You're right :o. But in this case, it's not very probable I would hug a man (who I like so very much!) outside therapy. Except for my husband, of course, but it's absolutely different (he's in my age and we are in love :)). So I think this is mostly about me realising what I've missed and will never recieve 'in real life' (because of paternal deprivation). I wanted to recieve at least 'something similar' in therapy - that was the main driving force, probably.

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It's so strange - I forgot to mention one of the most important feelings!!! :confused:

So I add it now: I was 'scared' also because it seemed to me as if I was doing something prohibited. I knew it wasn't prohibited or 'bad', but I percieved the situation this way. :confused:

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"Scared", "Afraid" those are some pretty intense feelings for anyone and for me I don't think I ever really felt that in my life so now I don't know how to handle them as an adult. I always compensated with strength? If that makes sense but I see how when those feelings creep up I run or shut down no instead....

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I think there are times when simple shared acts of human connection can have deep healing effects. It's certainly one of my strongest and most pleasant memories from therapy. For me (and maybe especially since we shared a hug as I was leaving therapy) it was symbolic of the movement of life. We meet, we connect and then we part. I believe the connection parts stay with us as we meet others and connect again. I'm glad you were able to share in this moment with your therapist, LaLa. :)

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Amy,

I'm glad that this thread is "good to read" for you! :)

Thanks, I'm fine these days. That session was very very important not only because of the hug, but even more because we were talking about aggressivity and tolerance and it was so very insightful to me! I'd like to post here more about it sometimes, now I'm online only for a while, so...

I'm happy to hear that you have your session tomorrow/today, finally! I hope it will meet your expectations! :)

Thanks also to others who participate with their comments :).

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I feel a bit bad that I post so much about myself these days. But I shouldn't as this is 'my thread' :cool:... (-1st time that I use this emoticon :))

I have one probably too speculative question: I wonder if from my feelings during the hug I can conclude that I have a hidden fear of men, or of physical closeness (as harmless and innocent as a hug!!), ... :confused: My therapist once (some months ago) told me that I had (all my life) a fear of men (that I was unaware of - I only knew I was very nervous talking with most men (but not boys)), that was 'somehow broken' by my 1st boyfriend (present husband), but not entirely. I don't know... Maybe it (the beginning of the last session) was only about my self-doubt and self-blame for being awkward. But maybe these two "issues" are more related than they seem to be...

Amy, how was your session? (I suppose you'll post about it in your thread, but you can do it here, if you'd like :).)

That's all for today, I think. This was a very good day for me, mostly because I had a very pleasant dialog... (not with my T, this time ;-) ...)

Some minutes ago, I was reading these posts and saw so many mistakes and probably many remained unnoticed... *sigh*...

Good night everybody :-)...

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Hey LaLa...

Well, I think that you are coming perhaps to your own correct conclusions about maybe some feelings you have there which have now come out because of the hug moment! I think it's something very interesting that you can look in to... Do you think that this is something you need to 'work on'? Did your therapist talk more about it with you or have you 'moved on'? Any more hugs!?

I won't talk about me right now lol. All very weird. Maybe I'll go to my thread now and not blab on here!

How's it going?

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  • 4 weeks later...

I was there today after a 3 weeks break. It was not "a therapy session", I saw him "only as a doctor", during his hours of attendance, to get the prescription for my med. Despite of this, we sat (how kind! :)) on the armchairs he has for therapy sessions and he told me he had as much time as I needed. It was an important talk, even though not long (15 min.?). And in the end, he asked me (I'd somehow "manipulated him" to do so, because he'd told me something like "If you'd like a hug, I'll never oppose, but it's you who has to tell it, I can't propose it" (he didn't say only "I can't...", he explained it to me in much more words, but I abbreviate here), but I told him: "That's how you see it. I think you could.") if we're going to farewell (-maybe not a good translation? :o) with a hug. I said: "It's up to you." He was a bit amused by this answer, but it was fine, it was one of my intentions. So we hugged. This time, there was no fear at all, I wasn't even nervous. It was beautiful and absolutely comforting. We were also talking a little bit. I told him firstly "there is no fear now". I told him "I can hear your heart :)". I told him "Thank you" several times. In some moments, I was almost crying, but I didn't start. It seemed to me that... "how could I be able to stop this hug???", but finally it wasn't hard to do; it was very natural. But then, I said I had to sit for a while as I felt unable to leave "in that state" :). So I sat there maybe for half a minute, saying things like "thank you" and "it's strange how pleasant it can be..."

I have (hopefully!!) the next session next week on Tuesday.

L.

P.S.: The last 3 weeks are described on my blog on this site [quite ugly but with nice and valuable comments from my friends!]. You can read it if you're interested and if you're among my Friends here.

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Thank you :)

One of the ways to reach my blog is the link in every post, under info like "Join date" and "Location" - there is "Blog entries" and the nubmer "1" is the link. It's strange if you can't reach it via this...

__________

By the way, he was so kind that he told me (during the hug) "I can't help myself but I always have tendency to caress your hair" and he did it, this time only once (one move), maybe because I didn't react (what could I reply? That "it's alright"? He knows it is. That it's nice? I think there is no reason to say such apparent things... Or "how only could I believe you that you don't say it just to make me feel that I'm not disgusting to you?"? I was in a too good mood to say (and even think of!!!) such ugly thoughts!). Some whiles later, I did the same to him, but only very shortly, in a shy, very gentle way. I think it wasn't very important as such (or better said: it didn't make me feel "more happy"); for me, it was mostly symbolic - a proof that "I'm finally able not to be too shy and too worried about what he will think and feel". The most important (-for me) thing about this "gesture" was that I didn't feel a shame. So now I tell myself that maybe if I'm able to caress his hair without shame, I should be able to talk with him about "anything" without shame. I wonder if my unconscious agrees and will not "produce a shame" next week when we'll talk...

__________________

And by the way, when I wrote that he told me something like "you have to say you want a hug, I can't propose it", he literally said also "I can't make a clutch at you everytime you leave!" :), trying to explain to me that the therapist is there to hug me when I need it, but not to hug me when he wants to.

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I'm sorry I post so much about such a simple thing, moreover ignoring (here) the other (more important) aspects of my therapy, but... I imagine that maybe somebody who has some similar problems with hugging in therapy could find it someday and find here some useful points of view. :)

I know how I do like to read others' experiences with hugging their therapists, so... I'm contributing with my experiences to this big www see of "adventures"... :)

So, here are some more "details":

The problem with the 1st hug (not the second one!) was that I felt that "he can't give me what I need, as I don't need only a simple hug, I'd need love, but the therapist can only hug me because he wants to be kind to me, but not because he would have an affection towards me, and so the hug seems somehow "empty" to me, only a pure gesture, not a message demontrating feelings". I was scared because I felt I was failing again - failing to feel good in a situation when "every normal girl" would feel good. I felt scared because I had a feeling that I was forcing him to hug me, forcing him to do something unusual for me, "something that I should be happy about but I can't". (I hate forcing people to do something for me - I feel like an egoist, ...) The 2nd hug was different, because we had talked about the 1st one and I was liberated from all these thoughts, I've finally got place to feel only the positive sides of the hug and to enjoy his closeness, without being sad that "it's not love" and without supposing I'm forcing him to do what he didn't want to (because he seemed very genuine to me in his affirmations that he likes the hugs and wants them, too).

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I have to quote a part of an e-mail of my friend with whom I communicate about my therapy. I hope some of you will find there the same good feeling as I did:

One thought I had reading it though was, that there is a form of love that is not attached. It is the loving kindness of the buddhists. There is also the agape of the old greeks. It is a love that brings love towards the object of the love without personal attachment. There is no desire, no demand, no need, there is just loving. And I always thought that a therapist who truly is involved with his patient needs to have that kind of feeling, I thought that it is the only way that a therapy is possible. Because the relationship is so intimate and at the same time so important (at least for the patient) that the therapist only can do justice to it if he loves the patient in such a sense.
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That's really beautiful, LaLa, and I am happy you are soaking this up. Just please be careful. I say that with love, too. I think it's okay to enjoy the loving feelings you are feeling right now, but I also hope that you will remain fully aware of the context of the hugging within the relationship. I'm pretty certain that you do understand, but thought to mention it because I do know how intoxicating those kinds of feelings can be.

How has the rest of your therapy been going? Are things going well?

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Thanks, IJ :).

I know what you mean. I understand. I think my bigest advantage is that I'm happily married (with some problems, of course, but... is there any ideal marriage? ;)). If I was single or felt unloved, it would be all too hard for me, I'm sure. But as I have love in my everyday life, I don't seek it in therapy (I mean romantic love here, of course). So... I think I'm safe in this regard. (And my therapist... I know it's impossible to persuade you by anything I could write that "he's not even a potential danger for me", so... I don't know if there is a reason to try to do so. I can only say: I'm sure about him. If you see any potential risk there, arguing would be meaningless ;).)

And your questions... As I've mentioned here, I didn't have therapy for more than 3 weeks now (I have been missing it a lot, but it was my choice (as you know from my blog)), that talk was short, not a therapy session. In this short talk, he told me things like for example: "When you look in the mirror, instead of seeing a nice and kind woman, you find thousands of reasons why you are not so." In brief, he said I should see myself in a positive way. Nothing knew, of course, but it was nice to hear.

I also explained to him the reasons of the break in therapy and that I realized that "one of the main reasons of the distance between uf is that I still can't always believe/trust you that you might like me and be honest to me, so I don't want to talk with you about some issues that would presumably require your pretending". I also told him that I can see the same pattern as in my relationship with him (the permanent cycling between trusting him and not trusting him) in another relationship in my life (not my marriage) we had discussed quite a lot, too. And he told me that no matter what he or anybody else thinks about me or which feelings anybody has for me, my human value/worth remains the same. I told him I knew it very well and explained to him how I see the human worth in general (and thus also the mine), he agreed with my explanation, ... (And then I asked him if his opinion was that it had been a mistake to hide my wish to hug him during the last session - and then we discussed it as I've briefly described before here.)

I know these are only fragments, but... the talk was short and moreover I can't descibe it very consistently. But I have many topics for the next session(s), it seems to me I'll be more open and less inhibited by shame.

L.

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Thanks, Allan, for "picking up" the "tricky" info hidden :rolleyes: in all those descriptions :o.

So, to change a bit the question: Why I can't believe that he likes me and is always honest with me? Well, I can't say that "I don't believe it". These days, I'm much better in believing it then ever. Now, I think I believe it entirely. But I can't be sure it wouldn't change again, sometimes. You know, it's not about a rational decision. It's only about a feeling. My "rational decision" has been, very long time, to believe it. But my feelings still "betray" me, sometimes. I know that the reason is "a pathogenic belief crated in childhood" that can be overcome in a therapeutic relationship. I'm happy my therapy has been quite successful so far. But I'm not in the end yet, I know it...

L.

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LaLa,

Are you at the point, yet, where it's time to hug yourself?

After all, that feeling that you mentioned, that you might not be liked, doesn't come from out here, it comes from inside you.

In the end, the "therapeutic relationship" is between you and you. :-)

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So this is my 500th post. Hm. It would be nicer to write it to somebody in need, with some advises, ... it would be also nice to make it happy and optimistic and answer positively your pertinent questions, ... But it seems I'm only going to acknowledge your comments (I like the most the idea "In the end, the "therapeutic relationship" is between you and you") and questions and tell you that... I'm not there yet. I know why you're trying to push me; it's very kind, but... it's not the matter of 'intellect', it's not that when you repeat me that I should (-I know; you didn't say 'should', but...) like myself as it would be the most important thing I can do for myself, then I would 'change my mind' and begin to like myself. It seems to me the same as with falling in love with somebody: Nobody could force my to love the man he would choose for me, it's not the matter of 'will'. Analogically, nobody can convince me to love myself.

Before starting my therapy, I hated myself very much. Thanks to therapy, I don't hate myself any longer, I'm just sometimes very angry or disappointed or sad about myself, that's all, and I know this can't be 'removed from my life' - we all need the whole spectrum of emotions; I could only 'narrow' the plethora of the triggers of these negative emotions - that's my aim, of course. It has also been important for me to learn and 'emotionally approve' that it's not 'disgusting' when somebody loves himself - several friends of mine here are the nice examples proving it; as well as my therapist is.

I suppose it seems to you (reading this thread, so focused on only few topics) that my relationship to myself is the main issue I need to 'heal' in my therapy, but... I see it like this: There are still too many issues I need to address. When I will be in a better 'position/state' in resolving of these issues, then I will probably also be able to feel better about myself. I hope the love will come slowly and unnoticeably. It surely can't be 'my abrupt decision'.

Thank you for your valuable support!!! :o

L.

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Thank you for your question, FMW :-) (Why ":o"? :()

It seems simple to answer, but I'm not sure if I can find "the day" when it began. I only remember that my suicidal ideations began when I was 14, in 1998 (although I wrote already when I was about 13 that "I don't fit to this world, but I'd rather suffer myself (by living) than cause suffering to my family (by my suicide)"). In 1999, I was writing (the whole year) "a book" (like a diary, but focused on reflexions) about "why I'm going to kill myself". (So... I have a long long book about the reasons! :o) But it's funny that the point of the book became very different that I had supposed: In November, our friendship (not love, but it was a very deep friendship) with my present husband began and I started to want to live and was very happy (but still anxious - but I didn' know that what I was suffernig from all the 13 or more years was anxiety!). So the end of the book was happy - my decision to live. Then, in March, our friendship "turned into" love. Then... I don't remember when my suicidal ideations came back, but... probably after some months; they became more serious later and "too" serious during my PhD study. But that's not what you're asking about! Back to your question, back to my 14's:

It's so hard to work on uncovering the reasons and the ways of things appeared, as my memory is so fragmental (yes, I know; it's normal...)! I remember that firstly I didn't want to live probably because I percieved living as suffering/as too hurtful, but I don't know when I started to realize that I actually hated myself. It seems to me, when I try to go back to that times, that it was very evident to me that "I'm bad, I'm not likable, ..." - I don't remember an "initial trigger". And it's very strange, as my family has always been very loving and supportive, even my therapist didn't find yet what in my family could make me feel that way - me, I suppose that it was only because of other people, in school - I was a bit bullied, but... I didn't percieve that bulling as "too bad", maybe that the problem was that I "accepted it" to some extend as "normal", as "something that has to be done to me as I'm different than the majority". But that period of time (when I was 11-14) was too complicated to describe it here. I had several "issues". Since the beginning of my therapy, I was telling my therapist that it's impossible to find "THE reason", as there are too many reasons that only in concurrence could induce my self-hate.

So for example, I felt guilty because I hated the partner of my mom and the guilt became stronger when he died when I was 13. There is also the issue mentioned in the thread "how to open a can of worms during therapy": When I was 12, I supposed to have cancer (it was absolutely stupid, I didn't tell anybody and wouldn't go to be checked by a physician as I was too afraid of the thruth (which was that I was healthy, of course, but I came to know it only about 2 years later!)) and this constant fear changed my life considerably: I suppose the roots of my self-hate are there, as I turned into a believer (I had been a "hard-core" atheist!!!) and was convinced that I'm bad and I could be healthy only if I change into a good person, so probably that was the beginning of my "hunt for my sins and bad characteristics". Paradoxically, I wished to be healthy, thus living - with the only aim not to cause suffering to my family! - but then, some years later, when I was already sure I didn't have cancer, I started to want to die (but didn't wanted to - again because of my family), I lost completely my religion as 15 y.o..

Yes, I know this seems crucial and you might say it's evident that "this was the cause". But there really are more issues. For example, as far as I remember (= all my childhood), I was unhappy that I was born as a girl and I even hated "all" the girls and women - except for my friends and family, thus I also hated the fact that I was a girl and hated my body - I always experinced my body as "inappropriate". And I lived in some fears, one of them was that I would become a woman, that seemed "unbearable" to me. The one who helped me to overcome this was my boyfriend (present husband), but I still struggle a little bit with some concequences of this. (My therapist asked me quite a long time ago: "When did you start to see yourself as a woman?" I told him: "I think when I started dating [...]." But he was looking at me in a very specific way and his regard (I still remember it very well!) iniciated more reflexions about it and later I wrote him that probably I still can't really accept myself as "a woman" (it doesn't mean I feel like a man - no, never; I rather feel like a child, where the differences between boys and girls are not so deep yet, but at the same time, I'm not asexual (-I mention it just to clarify)). But... I still have to talk about this with him, as we didn't discuss it properly yet (one of the topics I rather avoid :-( ... but I know "they will come one day to the therapy room"))

Another issue, this one includes my family: The relationships in our family weren't ideal. Everybody liked me, but they didn't get along with each other well and so I felt as "a buffer" and "a moderator" and probably was afraid of the example they have been giving to me - maybe I supposed (I don't remember) that it's very easy not to be liked by people, that good relationships are not ... how to say it? A "matter-of course", something "normal" that can be expected from close relatives.

So... is there somewhere the answer to your question? :(

L.

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I can relate to many things you've said, LaLa. It sounds as though you were very attached to your family and at the same time, weren't getting positive mirroring and healthy relating out of it; making it tough to develop your you in those conditions, and instead making you feel like something must be wrong with you... ? I felt pretty different, unlovable, and I also struggled with being female. I also felt my role was to be the "buffer." :D Sometimes it seems so strange that we humans have such a very hard time being who we are!!!! I'm glad you found your friend and your therapist and are learning different truths about the world and about yourself;)

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