figuring things out

[randomperson]

Way to go . Have a great weekend. I may not be around here for the weekend as I'll be out of town so depends on internet access. Hope you have something fun planned for the weekend. I'll be skiing - my usual winter weekend activity. There's always nice people to hang out with up there even if you show up on your own. Still hoping to meet somebody nice at the club on a little deeper level. Can't see the darn ski instructor's hand for a wedding ring. He has a kid a little younger than mine but I started really late so that doesn't mean much. Probably too young for me, but he sure is cute and lots of fun. Fun is good for now:D!

I was dating someone much younger than me.. the person I am interested in is younger. At first people made me feel guilty.. but really what is age if both parties don't care and the intentions are pure. I mean you have the corny saying 'old enough to be your parents' and such which forces a visualization of parents/kids.. but that doesn't add up if you think about it.. I mean they are not your parents, children or even kin lol.

If you can get past looks if you are the younger one or small maturity differences if you are older.. what is the big deal?

To me some people abused it.. Like the older super rich men that date younger women and it is clear what both parties are after and it has developed a huge social stigma that has been blown waaay out of proportion.

I say GO FOR IT!! Just test the waters first (go on the bunny slope lol) and take it from there

I find it funny how many boxes society tries to put people in.

You must do this, act this way, get married at a certain age, do specific things at specific times, have a certain type job that pays at least a certain amount of money.. or your considered an 'untouchable'

All such a joke. If we all wake up and realize we are just people.. all hurting all unique.. all able to love and be loved so much stuff would just work itself out.

[randomperson]

I just looked her up on FB, relationship status showed single!

[Athena]

Hi Random,

I'm sitting outside my hotel room so i can use the internet without disturbing my kids' sleep.

Ski instructor's married. Saw him in the chalet without his gloves, then saw (presumably) his wife. Oh well:(. At least the people in my group as well as him are lots of fun. I seem to be getting along better with the world now. Perhaps I should fill my therapist in. I made the mistake of asking if I'm ready for a serious relationship. He said no. Kind of upset me. I think I'll go start a thread on this topic and expand on it and see if I can get some feedback on how to deal without his rather disappointing answer.

[randomperson]

Hi Random,

I'm sitting outside my hotel room so i can use the internet without disturbing my kids' sleep.

Ski instructor's married. Saw him in the chalet without his gloves, then saw (presumably) his wife. Oh well:(. At least the people in my group as well as him are lots of fun. I seem to be getting along better with the world now. Perhaps I should fill my therapist in. I made the mistake of asking if I'm ready for a serious relationship. He said no. Kind of upset me. I think I'll go start a thread on this topic and expand on it and see if I can get some feedback on how to deal without his rather disappointing answer.

I read something once that said if you have to ask then your not ready.. yet.

Not sure if it is true or not.. but for me it kinda was. Because deep down I knew I wasn't and that was why I was asking the question.

Not that it stopped me lol, I kept trying to force myself to date and get over my heart ache and kept getting hurt from it.

Thing is when you are still recovering typically you make choices that normally you wouldn't that is not in your best interest or get into other bad relationships just to be in one. (Found out the hard way )

One thing that hurt me the most people kept telling me I should be over it by now and such after some time passed. So I kept thinking what they said was true and it got me down when I kept slipping over and over.

People are different and unique.. you know yourself better than anyone. Let your heart and mind tell you when you are ready, just be patient with yourself and allow time to heal if needed you have been through a lot

[randomperson]

Thing that hurts me one bad day emotionally takes away a week of positive progress I make with others. I say dumb things.. not mean just dumb.

I still freeze when I come into situations that make me nervous.

It hurts friendships and makes relationships near impossible.

I can rebound myself, but people near me don't react as well lol.

People are not used to it and this day in time don't put up with it.

Like I gathered enough courage to talk to the new woman of interest asked her about lunch again.. she said are you talking about tomorrow? I said whenever.

She mentioned the office lunch today and tomorrow. Didn't know what to say or how to respond. Just kinda was like oh yeah ok paused and took my leave not knowing what else to say. Any other guy would have had a witty remark just waiting.. not me. Starting to feel like a I'm skulking. Just waiting for her to pop up close by starting conversations. I don't know what to do. I don't know the timing what I should say or anything. Not sure if I should leave things alone before I make a mess of things keep on the same path or one day straight up ask her out.

I have never been this open about how I feel about the dating process before.

This is the spot I normally freeze and mess up in.

Right now thinking I might should keep my mouth shut for now. Still been sometime since I met someone I liked that was single.. and this is me.. why I am in here.. this is what makes me broken.

[Athena]

Like I gathered enough courage to talk to the new woman of interest asked her about lunch again.. she said are you talking about tomorrow? I said whenever.

She mentioned the office lunch today and tomorrow. Didn't know what to say or how to respond. Just kinda was like oh yeah ok paused and took my leave not knowing what else to say. Any other guy would have had a witty remark just waiting.. not me. Starting to feel like a I'm skulking. Just waiting for her to pop up close by starting conversations. I don't know what to do. I don't know the timing what I should say or anything. Not sure if I should leave things alone before I make a mess of things keep on the same path or one day straight up ask her out.

I have never been this open about how I feel about the dating process before.

This is the spot I normally freeze and mess up in.

Right now thinking I might should keep my mouth shut for now. Still been sometime since I met someone I liked that was single.. and this is me.. why I am in here.. this is what makes me broken.

No doubt she is confused about your answer "whenever". Why not ask her what day works for her? You just got caught off guard and got a bit flustered. I've learned how to handle that over the years, and with some people I still have trouble, so I can totally relate. I would probably feel the need to clear the air on my confusing answer and also make sure she knows you are a little more interested in her than just "whenever". Maybe just tell her you had a "blond moment" or went brain dead or something. On second thought, if you feel too much time has passed, just pretend it didn't happen and just be yourself again and she'll probably forget it too (if she even noticed). Think up a witty response for next time it happens, and you may get to share a laugh over it.

Keep posting stuff like this. I have found that verbalizing my seemingly ridiculous reactions to things helps me sort out the best way to handle them when they inevitably come up again later. Sometimes it's what people here say back that helps, sometimes the lightbulb goes off as I write down my thoughts. Either way, it works for me.

[randomperson]

Thank you. I think I will act like nothing happened.

Being that she is naturally blond with a little red hair mix I don't think saying I had a blond moment would be wise lol And saying anything else would just call more attention to the mistake now.

I feel so frustrated like I am not doing any of this right.

Times like this is when my doubts kick in and that only makes things worse.

[randomperson]

So this is the spot where I normally give up, and say what is the use.. sink into a deep depression and start all over. I see it though this time... I need to stop it. How I ask myself?

Yesterday I was feeling bad. That night instead of insulting myself or saying other negative things I simply said yes I am hurting and yes this is a tough time for me emotionally. Didn't really make me feel better, but I think it was mentally healthier.

I really don't want to be alone but I don't think I am stable enough to handle a relationship or ever will be at times. Lately my mind feels so mixed up. Not like normal. I'm used to always having a plan or being the answer guy. I'm not like that anymore. It feels like my sense of purpose is gone. I just live to be living and help mom.

..honestly I wish my good friend who has passed had never introduced me to his daughter.

I thought myself a loser and gave up on love long ago. Focused on other things and learned to deal with it.

She gave me false hope.. helped me to see what life could be like with a family to love and be loved. For a whale that has never seen the ocean, freedom.. being in a ocean park is no big deal.. but when it is released you can never bring it back to that same ocean park or it will crush it's spirit.

Logic, faith and you my friends tell me I can make it. But every time I try I fail. Along with my mind being so confused and in constant anxiety and pain right now it is so discouraging.

Still I must keep trying. What will it hurt

[malign]

Rand,

Every time anyone tries, they fail. Right up until the time they succeed.

And yeah, if you don't try, it's a guaranteed fail.

I feel so frustrated like I am not doing any of this right.

I'm not sure there is a "right". ;-)

There isn't some secret code that everyone else knows. It's just people trying to relate. Lots of girls would prefer a sincere guy who doesn't have prepared "lines" ready. And if she prefers a smooth liar, why are you interested, again? ;-)

My tendency would be to just be honest with her: you were hoping to see her again soon, and it threw you that the "office lunch" would interfere. Then you could ask her when she would prefer, as Athena suggested, or pick a different day to suggest. For one thing, with a specific day, you get a chance to see what her response is.

And either way, give up any hope of "planning" a relationship. :-)

[randomperson]

You say words I need to hear and in the right way. Thank you.

Perhaps for me and other guys on here it is about the way we see ourselves.

I don't know. People on here are different in a good way. Most give up on me in some way or another after awhile.. means a lot that everyone continues to be so supportive.. thank you.

[Athena]

For a whale that has never seen the ocean, freedom.. being in a ocean park is no big deal.. but when it is released you can never bring it back to that same ocean park or it will crush it's spirit.

. Nice analogy, much better than prison(which is unfortunately where I go). Perhaps you can think of the ocean park as a place where you've gone to heal and that it's a temporary place with lots of caring, supportive people there to help you.

Logic, faith and you my friends tell me I can make it. But every time I try I fail. Along with my mind being so confused and in constant anxiety and pain right now it is so discouraging.

Still I must keep trying. What will it hurt

I brought up my difficulty accepting my therapist's answer re: "not ready for a serious relationship" to him (even though I kind of agree with him). He said a bunch of stuff that made a lot of sense, but the one thing that really stuck was his comment that it could be construed as an "acting out". I took that to mean, I need to go through all my dysfunctional relationship patterns in the therapeutic environment and get rid of them there before I am ready to move on. I'm wondering if you might be able to take this approach somehow. I totally get the urge to take action, to "make" something happen, but I'm thinking we both need a way to feel good about ourselves before we can have a truly meaningful, authentic relationship.

[randomperson]

I totally get the urge to take action, to "make" something happen, but I'm thinking we both need a way to feel good about ourselves before we can have a truly meaningful, authentic relationship.

I agree, but that is the thing just yesterday I was thinking the same thing you just said even thinking about your post in relation to me.

Then realized I have been trying to get past all of this to the best of my ability for over 15 years. That was when I first started to make improvements. I realized it might not happen for me. I might never 'be ready' or come to peace with who I am. Coming to that thought in my mind was very crushing. One thing that got me so down.

What was sad for me. When I was in a relationship and the woman said she wanted to get married.. it started to really change me in a good way. I started to get self confidence become overall better in so many ways. I always felt hard to describe it.. like a burden or painful weight on my mind. I guess the best words are overwhelming stress? But it was lifted. I saw life different. I felt different. I know the words it is just a state of mind. I would like to get back to that point and tried.. I can't.

Taking this away.. after so many years of mental pain.. and going back to my past state.. it was almost unbearable, then on top of it countless tragedies. I came here just after the most grueling year and a half I have ever experienced.

But I have had hope.. light given back to me. I do hope. Do keep trying. Self doubt feeds worries, worries feed fear, fear feeds self doubt. I have got to find a way to break the cycle.

..sorry my mind and emotions have been bouncing around a lot lately.

So many changes.. so many things that can go right or wrong. My life is used to things going wrong.. it is hard for me to break out of that state of mind. ..but I am trying.

[randomperson]

Feeling a little more at myself.. I don't understand these waves of emotions.

When it hits it feels like there is no hope at all. It can last almost an entire day.

[Athena]

Then realized I have been trying to get past all of this to the best of my ability for over 15 years. That was when I first started to make improvements. I realized it might not happen for me. I might never 'be ready' or come to peace with who I am. Coming to that thought in my mind was very crushing. One thing that got me so down.

A thought keeps going around and around in my head, "If I'm not ready, what am I supposed to do in the meantime?" That led me to break the problem down into two separate pieces. The physical aspect and the emotional one. I suppose I can live without the first a little longer. The emotional one - my therapist is there for me, but I don't think that's quite enough. Interesting that he said it could take up to 6 years for transformational change, because I recall my emotional problems starting at age 6. Then I start thinking of ways to speed it up - and asked him if I could double up appointments when he has a cancellation just before or after mine. I figure this place ought to speed it up a bit too. Plus reading self-help stuff. Anyway, it might just be too long to live in emotional isolation. So then I thought, OK - just try to surround myself with people I feel good around. That reminds me of a friend's version of a happy marriage. "You're with the right person when you like who you are when you're with them". I think that can apply to friends too. And it's not such a recipe for disaster if you mess up a friendship. You just move on and find another one. Good friends are hard to find, but I am already going down that path and I think it just requires some effort which I must admit I had not been putting in lately. Perhaps a training ground for something more intimate, I don't know.

Anyway, we don't have to wait until we're PERFECT. Just until we are READY. If we all waited until we were perfect, the human race would have ceased to exist long ago:).

[CantGiveItAway]

Hi random,

This is alittle off topic but I wanted to say that you sound like a really funny guy and a fun person to hang out with, I dont know if its because you use alot of lol's;) in your posts or not, but seriously, you sound like a cool person and you remind me of someone I used to know and I think of him when I read your posts sometimes lol we were like bestfriends.

I dont really have any advice to say at the moment but I do know that it sucks to be alone sometimes because youre just there with your thoughts and that can be a dangerous place to be lol and all those worries just feed on themselves and you can conjure up things in your mind that have no real basis at all. Recognizing those decieving thoughts and just sayin fuck that shit, I know its abunch of lies lol and finding some ways of distracting yourself can run them away. Youre trying things and thats all you can do, you should pat yourself on the back and smile to yourself even if things go the worst possible way they can go with this women, you can still say that you made some kind of an effort and you should be proud of that.

I hear what youre saying about being thrown back sometimes. Its like when we try to make a change and some positive strides, and we see alittle bit of light were like, ok things are going alright, but we dont really feel much of the good and then something bad or unexpected happens then were like, wait aminute that wasnt supposed to happen lol, and that hits us so much more and it sucks:( But alot of times things arent quite as bad as they first appear.

Just a question but do you know exactly what youre trying to come to peace with yourself with, I mean were all different and a work in progress, I dont know anyone who thinks theyre perfect, thats not delusional:p

On a side note: Im so fucking pissed I lost this post and I had to write it all again and I feel like Im missing something and I cant remember so if it sounds alittle off or jumbled at times that is why,,,,,,, and im also pissed that i just had to take some of the smilies out

[randomperson]

Thank you both for your replies and kind words.

Ha I love the wait a sec I'm doing right this isn't supposed to happen. That sooo describes me Life just needs to catch on to that

Life are you reading this.. please take notes and quit slacking k!

Maybe this is my time to heal rather than find someone..

It fits my spot in life right now. Everything else at this point feels forced.

And I learned don't force anything or you will break it.

My age, my inexperience romantically in any way fixed my thoughts on "time is running out".

But that is false thoughts like everything else I have been thinking..

It is all about perception.. that is the key to true mental health.

So many fights we all get into is just because both sides perceptions are simply different.

I know I will fall again. But I am growing and the time it is taking me to get back up is less and less.

FYI a big thing happened last night.. I am discovering who I am and how I think more and more. I realized I repressed memories of the car wreck as a child. Totally blocked out key members of my family from my memory.

I thought I might have before but I know now. This was the starting catalyst for everything. Later as the abuse of my mother worsened I realized I tried to do it again repress as much as I could... even remember the thoughts now.. and I did to a certain extent.. but it was too much.. started having leaks.. major major emotional damage that came from it, even stunted my educational growth for many years.

I don't know how I never saw this before..

For a brief second yesterday I think I saw an image of my father for the first time in my mind.. but I'm not sure. Then I tried to think back to the wreck see if I had any memories.. at first there was something I knew to be false.. then I tried deeper.. for 2 seconds I went through it again except this time I jumped and flinched the it shocked me so much then it faded away again.. I don't do that. Only time I remember doing that before to thoughts alone was in dreams. Did I remember for a second and are all those thoughts still locked away? I don't know..

[Athena]

First of all, you both sound like fun guys to hang out with:D.

And Random, it sounds like something is awakening in you. Enjoy the self discovery - breakthroughs can be so powerful.

[randomperson]

Thank you very much

I am growing and learning.. but it is much slower than it looks.

I am very self aware of my problems.. too much in fact.

I know I am a good person but in a odd way can't accept myself in some areas.

In wolves and dog packs there is something called pack mentality.

A hierarchy is always created. The highest is alpha, lowest omega. Each develops unique traits. People share some of those traits. It is why as Nathan said women are attracted to the Bad Boy types. They have the Alpha characteristics of boldness which is considered attractive alpha traits.. except in reality they are pure poison to whoever they latch onto. The alphas strive to keep all the power and control while the omegas make do with all the scraps in life and are always picked on.

Over time I have developed the Omega traits. I know this and have tried my best to break out of it.. I can't! I have tried so many techniques. Mental training, encouragement. Works for a bit then I always revert. It is ground into me the Omega traits. I have made progress but still have some of the traits even now.

In wildlife the only way that things advance past it is through external factors. I have confidence through the right training humanity can overcome this through discipline and knowledge of self.. I just do not know the correct personal techniques to use. One thing I MUST do is stop doubting myself and stop second guessing my choices. It is traits of the Omega. But I don't know how .. strange as it sounds.

You can say stop enough in you mind and it works for awhile.. and in some cases it start to become a new pattern a new perception.. but most of the times you revert. Hmm maybe it is like an addiction.

Maybe there is no easy methods. Maybe you just have to do it and count on others support during the transition.

[Athena]

It is why as Nathan said women are attracted to the Bad Boy types. They have the Alpha characteristics of boldness which is considered attractive alpha traits.. except in reality they are pure poison to whoever they latch onto. The alphas strive to keep all the power and control while the omegas make do with all the scraps in life and are always picked on.

In many cases I think you are right - "pure poison". But since you are a nice guy, I don't think you could possibly bring yourself to be like that. It would go against your grain, and you certainly don't want to drop your morals to become a bully. I think many divorced women have figured this out. Ever heard of the "strong silent type":D? Quiet confidence as opposed to "in your face, look how great I am" confidence, which seems to come with "I'm entitled to more than everybody else!"

One thing I MUST do is stop doubting myself and stop second guessing my choices. It is traits of the Omega. But I don't know how .. strange as it sounds.

Sounds like you need to disarm your inner critic. I'd take a friendly, goofy, self conscious Labrador Retriever over an aggressive, fight to the death Pit Bull any day. BTW, part of my problem is I'm the Labrador and my older sister is the Pit Bull. And my parents were outside the ring placing their bets on the Pit Bull and giving up on the Labrador. I'm using the present tense because even though that's how we were as kids and you'd think we'd have outgrown it at 48/50, strangely I revert to that submissive personality whenever I'm around her. It's infuriating, although a little less so now that I've got my nice analogy. Since Labs are my favourite dog, I get to like myself a little! Try appreciating the good in the Omega.

You can say stop enough in you mind and it works for awhile.. and in some cases it start to become a new pattern a new perception.. but most of the times you revert. Hmm maybe it is like an addiction.

Maybe there is no easy methods. Maybe you just have to do it and count on others support during the transition.

Addiction? I would say habits or ingrained patterns, but similar to an addiction in that you just can't seem to stop behaving in that manner. I am going through Psychoanalysis. It's the first thing that's worked for me, be it Therapy or drugs. It's quite a commitment in time, and depending on your insurance coverage, money too. But it deals at the emotional level, not the thinking level. The Id, your unconscious place that causes the problem behaviours, the lifelong patterns of coping and reacting that do not serve you. The self help books, positive thinking, meditation, CBT were all good but just weren't working for me. They do for many people, but my patterns are just so ingrained and I have too many crises all going on at the same time, I needed a lot more help. You may want to check into "Coherence Therapy". It's a lot like Psychoanalysis but quicker and would probably have a better chance of working on somebody younger like yourself.

[CantGiveItAway]

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[randomperson]

I'm sorry CantGiveItAway I didn't mean to say anything wrong.

I'm using this thread to talk the mess of thoughts out in my head and self analyze.

The reference was just meant for me alone, nor did I mean humanity follows the wolf pack mentality because we don't. Self awareness ensures that. You are totally correct in everything you said!

My reference was more for self reflection and the 'shared traits' I was talking about .. I'll use school as an example. The popular kids vs unpopular. Doesn't make it right.. doesn't mean things can't change.. they are changing. I love the fact that after all these years they are fighting back against bullies.

For everyone I certainly didn't mean anything to compliment abusive people in anyway.. that type of person is nuts.. they ruined my life and the lives of so many I love.. that was the reference to being poison. They are poison. That type of life not only destroys everything around them it destroys them inside out.

Again sorry if anything I said was misunderstood or taken wrong.

[randomperson]

Thought I would share some recent growth.. a good chunk of it do to everyone's support here. I am learning to accept things more

As I have said before I normally think negative. That includes with people.

Typically it is a form of thinking someone means harm when often they do not.

Also works in reverse I think I am hurting them when it is not as much of the case. But I am learning to see other perspectives more. It is a work in progess.. but I am making some progress.

That in itself is new and good for me.

[58corvette]

Good for You Random. You Deserve that much for yourself.

The Best To You.

Sincerely; Jim

[nathan]

I mean no offense to anyone or anything but I could fucking care less about being any kind of an alpha or omega. I dont buy into none of that. Im an individual, sometimes I feel strong, sometimes I feel weak. Im alone all the time so I guess Im the alpha and omega of my own wolfpack and I aint never gonna adhear to anybodys hierarchy.

But if we say we dont buy into it, or that we dont care about them, then we are creating a heirarchy. We are saying then that our perspective is better or beyond or more complex than a heirarchy of alpha's and omegas....that means that we are saying that things that play into such hierarchies are less than we are..which is a heirarchy itself...

I dont think it is right to say hierarchies don't exist, I belive they do. I think the rejection of such hierarchies is largely what leads to being anti social. I think anxiety and other similar things are what lead to that final rejection.

I think that getting anywhere , in terms of satisfaction in this life means, like it or not, working with those heirarchies, not denying them.

Why is the alpha, alpha? why is the omega, omega? I think its a matter of perspective, they higher up the heirarchy, the broader the perspective.

working your way up a heirarchy then, is a learning experience. Alpha's arn't really poisons, they are just fullfilling their perspective. They are also required in order for groups to function properly. Someone has to lead the pack. A baby could lead but, an adolescent would be better, and again, an adolecsent could lead, but adult better (generally speaking).

Why? Becuase they have gained more perspective, they actually see more, an adult is more aware than a baby. A newborn baby doesnt know the difference between himself and some inanimate object, but an adult can sense danger or w/e based off a subtle emotional que... Unlike your body, i dont think growth in terms of perspective ever stops growing.--unless you deny the hierarchy in which you can grow in. Then it just goes all antisocial and stagnant, no growth.

And notice what happens? I've done this myself. what happens is we create our own hierarchy, independant from everyone else where we make ourselves the king. Unfortunetely this 'king' hasnt gone through the necessary growth to really be an alpha. This is the poison of there is any. Becuase when we do this, and then socialize with people, we impose a false self righteousness and this just wreaks repulsion. That is a poisonous and false alpha--not an alpha at all actually, no one will follow you unless forced to or decieved in some way.

Just picture a baby with superpowers that can impose his will onto everyone through mind control, including some of the most intelligent people in the world. If some alien species looked down at our planet and saw a baby ordering everyone around, they would think, hmmmm looks like this species greatest accomplishment is the intelligence of a 4 year old.

That's sorta what happens when we create our own hierarchy and impose it into others, although people WONT follow you around. Unless you are Hitler or something. It's regressive, unattractive. So, basically, embrace the hierarchy, face up to it. its the hardest thing to do if your stuck in anxiousness or anti social.]

anyway, thats what Im thinking right now..

how you doing random? You seem better, like you are 'figuring things out'.

[CantGiveItAway]

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