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The advice from "The Law of Attraction" contradicts the old "just be yourself". To follow the suggestion in ASchwartz's last post is to choose from the empty set. I guess eHarmony was on to something when it said its algorithm wouldn't work for the small segment of the population I'm in. Looks like giving up is the correct solution.

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The advice from "The Law of Attraction" contradicts the old "just be yourself". To follow the suggestion in ASchwartz's last post is to choose from the empty set. I guess eHarmony was on to something when it said its algorithm wouldn't work for the small segment of the population I'm in. Looks like giving up is the correct solution.

Perhaps you are not "being yourself" when you attract women who are bad for you. After all, why would the "authentic you" do something that is bad for you? If you want somebody worthwhile, you have to work for it.

I'd suggest doing things that will increase your odds of success. What do you like/dislike about yourself, besides "size"? Can you improve on anything? What activities do you think you might enjoy that also involve members of the opposite sex? Mixed group lessons in martial arts/skiing/volleyball league? Or joining a club - chess, sailing, parents without partners? Politics? I'm going through the same thing. I realize my therapist cannot fix EVERYTHING. I'm just waiting for the day he tells me to "get a life". The way I see it, you get two benefits. One, you'll meet more people who you have something in common to talk about and two, you'll probably feel better about yourself because you are doing something interesting/fun.

Come to think of it, a computer geek friend of my ex sailed, skiid and was active in politics (not all at the same time). He's socially awkward, particularly around women but he just kept asking them out. I recall him complaining about meeting the right woman, and how "picky" women are these days. He ended up meeting an absolutely fabulous woman in a ski club they were both in (they have been married 6 years now).

Sorry if I repeated some stuff, my memory is getting so bad I can sometimes totally forget what I wrote two days ago - just one more thing to work on.....

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Perhaps you are not "being yourself" when you attract women who are bad for you. After all, why would the "authentic you" do something that is bad for you? If you want somebody worthwhile, you have to work for it.

..

I suppose there is some truth to that. If I were being a good INTJ geek, I'd be in front of a computer terminal working on something. I need to lose weight for health reasons, but that has never seemed to make any difference.

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This is one spot I share and struggle in. It is difficult finding someone. Especially if you have any emotional issues.. low self esteem is one of the worst. I know there are good women out there too, that never was the issue for me.. for me it was finding them and having them care enough to give me a shot. So in a way I share how he feels. I have read books, heard multiple opinions on 'how to attract a woman, meet the right woman'.. point is with the way society is set up it is difficult unless you really stand out in a crowd in a good way.

I agree with what everyone says.. just saying I understand his view point because I am there as well. You try to be yourself get rejected over and over.. the few women you date doesn't go well.. and it is not your fault.. you get a little cynical and jaded. Flander one good thing I want you to take for this it is not 'size'. I have the same exact issues finding someone special for my life, and I know 3 or 4 other men as well also having the same issues.

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randomperson, it seems to be an 'all of the above' situation. In retrospect, I'm kinda glad one gal mentioned her size preferences near the start. It avoided a lot of wasted time & money in addition to the embarrassing "just great, I got naked for that" disappointment. I haven't gone out with anyone for years, but venting the frustration does seem to help.

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I will readily admit that my "sample size" of females is certainly much lower than a typical man in his early 40s. I don't think I've shared the following detail and will be a struggle to type.

I never dated anyone from my high school. None of the girls seemed to be interested in me. Farm work and playing sports (football, wrestling) kept me in good shape, but the best I could hope for was someone asking for help with home work in study hall. Maybe some teammates blabbed to their girlfriends what they saw in the locker room. I don't know. [EDIT: On 2nd thought, those stupid wrestling singlets were kinda form fitting. Any of them that bothered to go to a wrestling match probably figured it out.] The summer before my senior year I had a job in a nearby smaller town and towards the end of the summer I met a girl a year younger that went to another school system. I was surprised she agreed when I asked her out. But, looking back it seems like I was the "default option". There wasn't anyone in her age range in that town and she hated the guys in her school (they made fun of her accent or something when she moved there years before).

We went out for the rest of that school year and continued until after my 1st year in college. I think it was near the end of my senior year or that summer when we started having sex. College was about 400 miles away, but I tried to come back once a month. But including that time away at college, for the year we probably had sex 3-4 times a month on average. It seemed like she enjoyed my playing with her breasts more than intercourse, but I I thought she liked that too. She was always really quiet, but some times she seemed to be into it. After a couple months of 'horny teenagers in love', she was bleeding a little bit one night during intercourse. It seemed odd to both of us because her period was a couple weeks away, but what had actually happened was that I finally broke her hymen. I would normally climax after about 10 minutes, but she would get me erect again in a few minutes and this would repeat 2-3 times a night. Although once we had sex for 3 hours. I couldn't climax for some reason, but she thought she had.

Later that summer, she moved to a city with her family that was much farther away. We still wanted to keep the relationship going and had talked about getting married after college. We called each other a lot at first and then after a while it became more difficult to get a hold of her. After I was finally able to call her, she said she had met someone else and that it was over. I wouldn't give up, so I sent letters, presents, kept trying to call her to try to "win her back". After one phone call, the question of "what's he got that I don't?" was blurted out. "Do you really want the truth?" "Yes!" "At least 3-4 more inches and able to keep it thick and hard all night" was her reply. Apparently they had been talking about previous relationships on their 1st or 2nd date and she said how many times we'd had sex. He asked if she orgasmed a lot and she said "I thought I had one". "If you had one, you would know it. There would be no 'I think'" was the reply. One thing led to another and she had the first several orgasms of her life that night. They had sex at least once a day for the several weeks since then. A quickie would be an hour, but they would usually go at it for 2-3 hours, pass out, wake up some time later and go for another 2-3 hours. She'd tell her mom she had been drinking and that was why she was staggering back to her room when she'd finally make it home. She estimated that they had sex more times in two weeks than we had in a year. She said there no way to win her back. I was devastated.

I didn't try to date anyone in college for at least a year after that. When I did, it didn't go well at all. Like was mentioned in the documentary in the other thread, "girls talk". A younger friend that was in the same sports and couldn't get a date to save his life in my high school had a completely different experience. He said it scared the crap out of him when he went to the first dance of the year and some gal put her hand down his crotch to size him up. He's probably average, so he passed muster and the rest of the years at college were like a series of Penthouse letters in comparison. He did say once though that I "was smarter because I had nothing to do but study". He and others also said that gals going to college for a 'mrs degree' certainly would go for a '4.0 engineer with 3 job offers lined up long before graduation'. They were wrong and dating after graduating into 'the real world' was just as bad.

Later my first girlfriend called me up on my birthday. I should have known she was trying to butter me up when she said that she was scared that my girlfriend would answer. Long story short, she had married the guy she left me for, but he was a big dick in addition to having one, and abandoned her (w/ a kid) at her parents' place. We talked for a long time for the next few days, eventually met, I moved her in with me, and we got married. It took a few years to figure out how to make her orgasm w/o electromechanical assistance, but she still missed being "filled up". She got into a historical re-enactment group and eventually started spending a lot of time with "friends". Then she stopped coming home, we separated, and after the divorce, she admitted "I never really loved you, I just got tired of using you". In retrospect, I guess it was easier to con me than getting into public housing. I've probably gone out with less than 10 women since then, not counting one escort. Being in the dark eliminates the look of disappointment, but not the "Are you in yet?" or "go deeper, why do you stop halfway in?..um..no, that's all the way" comments. I thought I was doing OK with an Australian gal, but after a couple weeks, she said she was with another guy on the nights she wasn't with me, he was "a lot more fun", and she didn't want to see me anymore.

So, there's my sex life or what little there is of it. It's been several years since I've "been with" a woman, the last being a very patient escort. But that felt wrong and I won't do that again. The local blood bank pesters me whenever I'm able to donate since I apparently don't have an antibody that most adults have in their blood and because of that, the children's hospital can use it in their NICU. It seems very self centered to not let them have a year's worth of blood in exchange for letting some escort pretend she likes me for a few minutes. Not to mention that it's free to masturbate. Women don't seem to be interested in me in general, the few that I've been with are really disinterested afterwards, so I don't bother to avoid the pain and embarrassment.

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Guest SomethingOrOther

Thank you for sharing this. I understand that those experiences would increase your insecurity. I just want to point out a few thoughts I had.

One is that it is possible you were told some things in an deliberate attempt to hurt your feelings, since I'm sure she knew it would, and that can mean it wasn't perfectly honest.

What's irritating to me is that she apparently didn't know what an orgasm is and probably had the weird idea that the man is the one responsible for figuring out HER sexuality. Its not unusual that relationships stop working over a longer distance, but seriously, if she doesn't know the first thing about her own body, it doesn't surprise ME she had trouble enjoying sex.

Later, I don't know if she said she didn't love you to hurt you, or if it's the truth, but if it's true, I have another idea why she didn't find sex all that exciting, because the mind DOES play a role there.

You'll point out that the body also does, but still, it seems to me you blame yourself for the way this relationship failed, when at least to me it seems she didn't give it a proper chance to begin with.

I hope writing this out helped you a bit to come to terms with this.

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I had asked her about that after we got back together. She said it was true and added more details. She didn't want to hurt me back then, but I had insisted on the truth, so she confessed what had been going on. She would tell me that I was still a good size, a gentle lover, and knowing that I'd never leave her was a better feeling than any orgasm. We're still on friendly terms - it's best for the kids that way. She has given me some of the same advice that others have said on here and elsewhere*. She still says I should be a 'good catch' and doesn't understand why some woman hasn't scooped me up by now.

But despite her words, I knew she still missed the sex she had before. Her actions and blurted out comments in bed would contradict what she said earlier. Whenever there was some movie on cable that a scene with a nude guy (which are never 'statue of David' types - always a big flaccid swinging one that hangs down well past their scrotum), she'd get a strange look in her eyes. She'd get that same look when she was telling me about sex with the 1st husband (but she hates him more than anyone else on the planet). When I tried talking about ending separation and not get divorced, she would say she couldn't go back and had the same look. That's when it really became clear that she had been cheating on me before. Also, when she'd get really mad, she'd call me names like 'mr little limp dick' or wiggle her little finger at me.

As far as why she didn't have an orgasm before, there was probably some insecurities on her part too, but she actually never had one. She didn't masturbate (still doesn't as far as I know), didn't want to give/receive any oral sex (she changed by the time we got back together), and would only use non-phallic vibrators after we got back together (not 1st relationship). However, I'm sure that my PE issues also had something to do with it. She would get frustrated when she thought she was getting close, I'd climax, and have to start over again. If she was really frustrated, that would be the end of it for the night. That didn't change from the 1st & 2nd relationship together. She prefers vaginal orgasms because when she has one, it's really strong (apparently that was her first one). That's a problem if I couldn't make enough contact inside there and/or keep it up long enough for it to matter. (I've heard other guys say that it's great dating women who were previously in relationships with PE guys. The women act as if they were gods the first several times.)

* - the prostitute had a lot of the same advice. We spent most of the time talking. I couldn't get it up at first and even when I did, it didn't last long. She said I should get a hobby and/or join a church group.

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Sometimes when people are feeling angry or even mean...they say the very things they know will hurt the most. That doesn't mean they are speaking the truth...

It also sounds as if she didn't give you many options to helping her achieve orgasm aside from intercourse. I agree with SomethingOrOther that the failure of your relationship is not all on you, Flander. Likely many factors played a part. Maybe you should give yourself a break?

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She would orgasm if she could feel me inside for long enough. That sounds easy, but it was difficult. For some reason, I'm thicker in the morning, so we would do that. She checked out books to look into different positions that would help. Sometimes they would for a little bit only to be derailed by a muscle cramp. Other times they'd just hurt. I could almost get her to orgasm by playing with her breasts and eventually we combined that with other things that sort of worked. It took years to get to climax together. It was a lot of work and getting older and weight gains by both of us made it worse. Then she stopped having much interest in having sex (at least with me). I guess you can say at least we tried.

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Guest ASchwartz

Flander,

All men are thicker and erect in the morning because testerone levels are at their highest in the AM. Sometimes women do not seem to understand that because they prefer sex in the evening: nothing wrong with that but men are at their max in the AM.

Allan

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I always thought it was because he was well-rested and less stressed, so interesting to know. Flander, I imagine the loss of this relationship is something which you have been grieving...Something very wonderful did come out of this as well...your beautiful children. I hope you don't give up on loving again. Take care.

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Sometimes when people are feeling angry or even mean...they say the very things they know will hurt the most. That doesn't mean they are speaking the truth...
I would agree - I've met some pretty mean people in the past (and some really great people)...and it seems like some people get the idea that they can feel better about themselves by trashing someone else. If you were very open about your vulnerabilities with someone like that, you can bet they would use it against you.

Which is not to say that you should bury your vulnerability, I think. Instead, there are cool people out there that don't operate in this sort of way. It's hard to say exactly how to meet these kind of people, but from my experience, I found that when I was at my worst, I tended to gravitate towards people that were not good for me. Unfortunately, I did meet a few real "keepers" during that time but I was so toxic that no healthy person would rightly want to even be around me.

Fortunately, I gave relationships a sort of rest and tried to work on my self-esteem (which still has a ways to go but it's better and man does that make a difference!!)...and then when I did start dating again, I had to force myself to approach dating in a different way. Instead of the usual haunts, bars, parties, etc...which I hate to say it but generally seem to be populated with lots of toxic people, I had to get creative and find new ways to meet people that were more centered and compassionate. It's hard but if you see a pattern playing over and over and nothing ever changes, you have to try to break the cycle somehow.

All that said, I still have insecurities about my size, and it can sometimes make me angry and bitter, but it's really all in my head. Or at least, if you treat someone with compassion and respect and give from your heart, you'll probably find that the right person will be more than happy with who you are and appreciate you in ways that you can't imagine right now (you sound very unhappy!).

Sure I could be a lot larger but I can't honestly say it would make my life any better even if I used to believe so.

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...Which is not to say that you should bury your vulnerability, I think.
Speaking of vulnerability, I was talking with a friend about this over lunch and she just sent me a link to a talk she found about it:

http://www.ted.com/talks/brene_brown_on_vulnerability.html

I'm uncertain about everything she has to say but I'm going to watch it again and really think about the message. Something about it is kind of ringing true, though.

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I had to force myself to approach dating in a different way. Instead of the usual haunts, bars, parties, etc...which I hate to say it but generally seem to be populated with lots of toxic people, I had to get creative and find new ways to meet people that were more centered and compassionate.

what were some of the ways that you tried?

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I had the best luck with doing volunteer work, which aside from meeting some very different kinds of people, also was really rewarding personally. It was probably the last thing I ever thought I'd do but pushing my boundaries was pretty helpful.

So yeah, that kind of opened up a new circle of friends, and I have really found that these are some of my best friends. Very compassionate people. And it also opened up a network where people could help connect you with other people they know...people with similar interests (e.g., people looking to date, etc).

And...I'm not religious at all but if I were, I probably would have tried church groups.

Anyone have other ideas? Surely there must be some other venues?

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Most of the people that I know locally are from work and practically all of them are married or otherwise attached as are my friends in other places. There's a singles group at church, but most of the people seem to be either 10-15 years younger than me or about that amount older. Recording bands in bars has been interesting, but one doesn't meet a lot of people that way.

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The fact remains if there was someone walking around exactly like me in all things except size, a woman will always choose bigger. I'd rather be dead.

M72

Crashing into the thread kind of late here but I'm new on the forum due to my own concerns with a small penis. Sorry if I'm answering things randomly out of order, heh.

Anyway, I would contest the above statement based on chats I have with women friends. Many of them like performing oral and their male partners especially like it. None of these particular women actually like gagging on a penis so either shorter and less girth is preferable for many people performing that act.

And as most women need clitoral stimulation to achieve orgasm, a penis doesn't even have to be involved. If you have any doubt about this, please see any of the millions of lesbian couples (or women masturbating) that somehow have healthy and pleasurable sex lives.

Anyway, most men, regardless of size are at least somewhat unhappy with what they've got. Perhaps it's just human nature to want more (of everything, now that I think of it...e.g, more money, bigger cars, bigger houses, more debt!!) and think that this somehow makes us better. It never does!

All that said, this is an issue I'm struggling with but man I want to beat this thing and be able to be happy. I have to believe that it can be done. It can be really hard though with some aspects of our culture which have brainwashed us into thinking more is better. This has been a particular thorn in trying to deprogram my broken ways of thinking. Hopefully a therapist or people here can assist...

If nothing else, I have generally found the internet to be a hot-bed of traps to make you unhappy. There's a lot of money to be made from preying on people's unhappiness and insecurities.

The post about the "interesting documentary" in this section kind of seemed like one of those things that really isn't helping anyone. I only started looking and then realized it was probably not anything helpful. I think I'll stay away from that post unless someone can assure me there's only positive energy in there.

Life is too short to go looking for trouble...:)

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Most of the people that I know locally are from work and practically all of them are married or otherwise attached as are my friends in other places. There's a singles group at church, but most of the people seem to be either 10-15 years younger than me or about that amount older. Recording bands in bars has been interesting, but one doesn't meet a lot of people that way.
Hmm, so maybe there aren't a lot of offerings near by you...but...

My mother divorced my father and later met a great man via friends but he unfortunately lived 2 hours away. I don't think either of them were initially thrilled by the prospect of commuting just to see each other...Still, they gave it a shot and did the commute for a while.

Things clicked though and they got married...and settled into a nice home together. They've been very happily married for almost 15 years now.

FWIW, I saw him naked in the shower when the family went camping, and I'm not mentioning it to place any value on him one way or another...just trying to illustrate that not everyone cares about size as much as you'd think.

Anyway, he's smaller than I am, flaccid, and I feel like I'm small. It's hard to predict erect but either way, my mother isn't the kind of person that would care. I know she loves him dearly and they have a great relationship, he's so supportive and treats her well. Unsure about their sex life but I don't see why it wouldn't be normal.

And me, I could care less. If anything he's like my real father now and I'm happy he found my mother.

So who knows, maybe you just need to cast out a wider net?

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Anyway, I would contest the above statement based on chats I have with women friends. Many of them like performing oral and their male partners especially like it. None of these particular women actually like gagging on a penis so either shorter and less girth is preferable for many people performing that act.

He may be referring to things like this: http://www.penissizedebate.com/page40_ideal-penis-size.htm

The post about the "interesting documentary" in this section kind of seemed like one of those things that really isn't helping anyone. I only started looking and then realized it was probably not anything helpful. I think I'll stay away from that post unless someone can assure me there's only positive energy in there. Life is to short to go looking for trouble...:)

The guy at the end of the 1st film seemed to have finally become happy with his penis. I guess it also helps to see that other guys have the same fears and if they can find a way to get over it then we should be able to find a way too. On the other side of the coin, every time that someone says "women don't care about it", it makes one think "then why do all the ones I run into seem to care? Am I making all of this stuff up?". The interviews asking women what they liked/disliked was somewhat comforting in that meant that some of that wasn't just a figment of my imagination.

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Guest SomethingOrOther

Yeah, doesn't that look like science? Just that the person makes a lot of unfounded claims without even giving credits. Ok, he might be giving credits on the contact info site, which I didn't click on, because I got worried about the amount of penis enlargement spam I might get afterwards.

Apart from some of his experimental setups actually making me sick, I congratulate them for finding ten women willing to participate, who were probably financially rewarded for their time.

wait, that wasn't scientifically correct. It should have read "ten average women".

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Flander, I'm sure there are some women who care about size, but the point I've been trying to make is that there are also very many who don't. There are many who will appreciate, accept, respect and love a man for his whole self. The focus does seem to often remain on what causes all of you pain. Maybe it comes down to valuing yourselves. You're human beings, not sexual objects. What steps can you take to help yourself feel better about yourself? What directive action?

Nessie, bring on the positive energy...

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I always thought it was because he was well-rested and less stressed, so interesting to know. Flander, I imagine the loss of this relationship is something which you have been grieving...Something very wonderful did come out of this as well...your beautiful children. I hope you don't give up on loving again. Take care.

You're certainly right about that. Friends sometimes say I should HTFU and get over it. But it seems like the failure left in its wake creates a feedback loop that makes it difficult to get over.

I tried to look at those documentaries with a "What one man can do, another can do" mindset. If he can figure out a way to be happy, then I should be able to find a way too.

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