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The problem of pornography


Mark

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You make good points Grant. There can be a patronizing tone to some of the anti-porn rhetoric. Female sexuality is more complicated and diverse than simply to be horrified by porn.

In DSM, there is this concept (unevenly applied, but present) that a problem doesn't really rise to the level of a problem needing intervention (e.g., a clinical problem) unless there is distress on the part of the person who has the symptoms. To this we have to add the correlary that sometimes the person who has the symptoms is not bothered by them, but their partners are (as is frequently the case with regard to people who meet criteria for Narcissisic Personality Disorder). So this is the lens I use when thinking what constitutes a problem or not. is someone expressing that there is a problem who is affected by the symptoms. By this criteria, someone who uses a lot of porn, but isn't bothered by it, and who is not in a relationship with someone who is bothered by it doesn't have a clinical problem. Critics might say that there is still exploitation occuring, and they might be right, but if we divorce ourselves from the larger social context and just look at the individual and/or the "family" unit, its easier to say when a problem exists or doesn't exist that requires intervention.

Have I helped here or just made it more complicated ?? :)

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i tend to think that if a couple is open and honest about everything than nothing can come between them. its when the partner is hiding the use of porn, or cheating that it becomes a problem. the problem is not in the act its self, but in the way the person goes about doing the act. i have never had a "problem" with porn. to me, it is society's problem. when the world made sex a bad thing, people started hiding it. porn has always been around in one form or another. so has having more than one partner. even in biblical days. in my opinion sex is not a bad thing. neither is wanting to see others in sexual acts.

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  • 3 months later...

I have a question if a person at a young age say 20 starts looking at pornographic magazines, videos, and computer... if the more they process it as their growing up do they develop a fact from fiction world?

Do they have time a tough time grasping with reality sexually. Meaning when they watch a movie do they realize that most women aren't really like that.

Do men/women have a time tough time looking beyond the superficial stuff?

I have always wanted to know this.

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Guest ASchwartz

Hi meyoumeyou08,

Good question but I think the answer is no. Unless the person is really psychotic I do not think that pornography will affect their ability to learn about real sex. In fact, I believe most healthy young people who view it understand that it's not real and learn from their real boy or girl friends.

What do others think?

Allan

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After 12 years of marriage, my husband has confessed to being addicted to online pornography for the last 9 years. He is full of shame and hurt for all the years he has deceived me and himself. He never felt like what he was doing was right or justified and always knew the consequences would be detrimental to our marriage, me, our children, and even himself. He is determined to stop and is in the process of associating negative thoughts and emotions; ie shame, loss of marriage, loss of desired healthy life, and loss of self with the memory of the act itself.

My questions are:

What is the success rate of complete recovery from this addiction, including the chances of relapse?

What are the chances of eliminating some of the unhealthy distorted sexual fantasies developed due to this addiction?

What should I do to help his chances of recovery from this addiction?

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hi healing wife...I can tell you what I have gone thru with my spouse about this we've had many many many discussions about this. What I did is let my feelings be known to him. For me it has a been a long process not only for my spouse but for me as well. I have come to realize I am not a fixer nor can I change his way only my spouse can do that. Our marriage is better; I liked our marriage counselor and he could have acted as go between and given us ideas, excercises etc.. but ultimately I felt it should be up to us to communicate to each other. I have pointed out a lot of things to him.. I have told him it's not to belittle him however really it's to help him. But at times he never saw it that way and that's ok because I knew for me what my motive was. It's all about forgiving and helping him and myself. There are many great books out on this type of thing.

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I have read the messages in this post and would like to make a couple of comments:

First, I have a lot of problems in life right now so I have temporarily suspended the idea of trying to get into any new relationships with people. I feel like I have enough to try to deal with, with all the past relationships I have been in, and I am not really looking for any new relationships at the moment.

So for me the only problems sex wise lie with pornography and masturbation, and the problem specifically is, if God would approve.

For my part I don't feel I am so addicted to pornography. There are a couple of sites I go too if I want to but I haven't been there in a while and I do not feel like I have to visit them. Most of the times I can just use my imagination but my imagination relies heavily, sometimes, on the explicit images I picked up in my mind, during my visit.

Sometimes I feel guilty, mostly about what would God would think, or would he think I was a sinner, or would He condemn me, and that's the main issue I try to work out, in my relation with sex, and pornography and God. On top of it, I am gay, so that's another issue too.

I don't know what to do about most of the times. :confused:

LiQuidDreamer

What would God think? Hmm...

God made you a human. Right?

Humans do wrong and they do right. Right?

Does God do wrong?

Assuming the answer is no, then God created humans so that they could do wrong and right and it was right.

Therefore, God gave humans the ability to do wrong and it was right.

Did God want humans to do wrong? Yes.

Did God want humans to do right? Yes.

So if it's in human nature to do wrong and right, but God really wants humans to do right all the time, then God has purposely created an impossible task for humans.

Should a parent punish a child for the child's inability to do the impossible?

Yes, I can hear it now. Who are we to speak towards the divine plans of God, why God would want humans to do right but then make them so they will do wrong? How could we as puny humans ever possibly know what God's thinking?

Exactly!

Therefore, do what you want, but do your best not to hurt others. However, understand that when I say "do your best not to hurt others," I don't say this as some decree, like I'm some king, some ruler, some dictator who will smite you down; rather, I'm saying it as one who believes in the balance of nature, that for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. It was from humans that religion developed, simply as a consequence of humanity's ability to do right and wrong. There was no divinity involved except for the creation of humans.

It is religion that tells us what porn is. But it is our humanity that tells us what is right and what is wrong. I, for one, think it will be a very good day when, at least in America (assuming she survives), all, on a pleasant day of course, leave the clothes off and just go about our lives for at least that day. I think it would do us a world of good. The main reason the porn industry has flourished as it has is because religion has beat humanity about the head for a very long time, much too long, that nudity and sex are something to be ashamed of, something to be hidden. Commercials exploit this silly notion continuously.

Newsflash: Men have penises. Women have vaginas and breasts. We all have them and they look generally the same. Get over it already. Seriously, the only reason I don't go naked much of the time (some days I'd want protection from the cold or the sun you see) in public is because of the stupid legal system we have in place now that says it's indecent and that I should be arrested. Interesting. I wonder if the law makers are funded by the fashion industry or the religions or both?

Sorry about that. I'd simply intended my response to be with respect to "what would God think?" However, it seems to have drifted a little.

Edited by Dean Broheld
I forgot a post title.
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You have brought up a very common issue that plagues many parents- how to balance all of life's demands (particularly when you are parenting very young children) while still finding time to cultivate your relationship as a couple. Unfortunately, sleep often wins over sex. Syncing up schedules (when each person has different levels of desire at different times of the day) can also be very frustrating.

Any creative ideas from people reading this post?

Treat sex as any other human activity. Don't hide it at all. Granted, you'll have to replace this government and put in one that acknowledges the humanity of humanity, first, lest your kid be the only one in school who doesn't go nuts upon seeing a naked human or doesn't have any curiosity over sex. Then, of course, there'd be the porn industry who'd absolutely hate it that your kid likely wouldn't be interested enough to buy their products, and then, of course, the same could be said about much of the commercial producers. The religions would probably try to crucify you...

Did you know Benjamin Franklin used to quite frequently stand naked in the middle of his room after opening all the windows just to breathe in the air? Today, in this "free" country called America, he'd be arrested and likely sent to some mental health facility. This is how messed up we have become.

Now granted, there are likely some, perhaps even yourself, who say "naked and sex with kids in the room?! What are you some kind of nut?!" Relatively speaking, yes, I am a nut, relatively speaking. For what I'm saying does go against the norm, the norm that is, frankly, abnormal relative to nature. Likewise, some, perhaps even yourself, will say, "that'll really mess up a kid for life doing something like that!" I say prove it. Show me where anyone has done such a study from cradle to grave, preferably several in order for the test results to be considered scientific in any way. I know of none. However, I'd think I was in the right place to hear of such experiments were they to have taken place at any time in the past. No, there's no doubt about it in my mind. We, as the "free" people of America, are just messed up. Likewise, it is from us being so messed up that porn even has an avenue to thrive.

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'ello:)

I think pornography is like a drug. It can be responsible (used) or irresponsible (abused). I've noticed a lot of assignments and values being ascribed to producers, users and abusers of this subculture(?) over the years.

Internet and pornography? ... DEFINATLY a problem! I think that pornography should inherently be more difficult to obtain. The potential for abuse is sky high and is (IMHO).

I am a regular user (abuser?) of pornography and use it to aid physical arousal so my fantasy will be more enjoyable, kinda like eating popcorn at the movies. I have a few magazines in my sock drawer and whip one out now and then if I feel like masturbating but feel a little tired or down.

I don't think that woman are offended by pornography either, after all, most of the people I see in it are female and woman have the same physiological responses as men when exposed to it. I guess when your thinking of how 3,350,000,000 people feel about something their opinions are going to be varied.

The problem with that logic is, as a lawmaker, you'd have to define it, first. Ah but then again, in defining it, in putting it down into law, the law is open for interpretation and REINTERPRETATION. That's the kicker. A simple law is passed, and then years and years later it gets reinterpreted.

I myself prefer no law defining porn, none. Rather, I prefer we the people define what is porn; we as consumers and producers decide what sells and what doesn't. I think if that were the case, porn probably wouldn't have near the appeal it has.

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Hello xaq75,

All I can say in response to what you have written is that some women are not offended by pornograpy but many, probably most, are.

As for those women who are in pornography, most of us would alert you to the fact that they are being exploited. As with prostitution, some of them have no choice because they have been abused as children, or are so poor that they have no other way to earn a living. Also, some are addicted to drugs and this is the only way to pay for their drugs. Finally, the hope for lots of money, very fast, is what drives some of these women who might not have another way of earning a decent living.

When I read your post I wondered whether or not you have a relationship with a woman or is pornography your only outlet??

Allan

Women in pornography are exploited because they can be, because there isn't enough competition such that it'd allow them to go elsewhere to sell what they're offering so they do what they have to. As for prostitution, I for one think it should be a legal option for one to make money. There are many bad marriages that'd never have happened were prostitution an acceptable business venture. As for the drug addicts, you may have guessed by now my views on drugs. Take the profit motive out, and many of the drugs out there wouldn't get near the business. Why? Because bad drugs would have to compete for market share with good drugs and wouldn't stay around for very long. Finally, that lots of money real fast thing would be history were the porn industry to lose its customer base due to prostitution being acceptable. Why would any want to pay for a picture or even a movie when sex is but an appointment away? And the prostitutes would be of every flavor. Why? Once again, it's the nature of competition to cater to all markets. (Don't be fooled by the "free market" bologna by the way. What I'm talking about is a truly free marketplace, where competition is neither aided nor opposed, not what they're calling "free" today, not hardly.)

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Guest ASchwartz

Hi Dean,

You are bugging out now but, I for one, have no idea who you are and what your life is like. All of what I just read of your postings are "intellectualized opinions" but reveal nothing of what your conflicts, struggles, issues are. It appears to me that you wore yourself out posting strongly held opinions without ever letting anyone know who Dean really is.

So, Dean, can you join us by talking about you? How old you are? Married or single? Father or not? Happy, unhappy, why and how come? You know, reality stuff.

Hoping to hear from you.

Allan:)

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I really don't have the time to spend here as I'd like -- I was saying I was bugging out of this thread, just in case someone asked something and didn't get a response. (I decided to pop back to this thread on the off chance anyone responded, which you did.) As far as who I am, as it pertains to this forum, why I'd be here, you've missed the rather detailed thread I posted which explains what brought me to the forum. I've been posting updates to that thread for a while now. If your questions aren't answered in that thread, I'd be shocked. I'd link you to it if I knew how and could spare any more time doing it. The thread is titled "Faithful Frustrated Freak." However, I'm happy to say that, as of a few hours ago, the frustration is now gone. But I'm bugging out again now.

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Guest ASchwartz

Hi Dean,

OK, I have gone back and read all of your postings. Actually, I had read some of them before but got distracted by other forums that I also had to respond to. There is too much to do and too little time. Sorry.

It is good that you are no longer frustrated and that you and your wife have a way to be together. However, does that mean that it is as good as appears on the surface? I suspect not. Why? Because there is more going on than you realize, at least, that is my opinion. You may have mentioned this before, but, are you in therapy? Therapy could help you understand yourself better.

For example, there is no clear border line between masochism and sadism and, behind every masochist is a sadist. I am guessing but I suspect that some of your wife's frustration with you was in response to you being sadistic in some ways unclear to you.

Also, do you know the old joke about the sadist and masochist? It is really not a joke because it has a lot of truth to it:

"The masochist pleads with the sadist, beat me, beat me...and the sadist smiles and says NO."

In other words, I am guessing that you and your wife interchange sadist/masochist roles quite often and in ways that are not always directly sexual.

Perhaps it is just me but, if it is possible, I detect anger in your postings, all of them.

I still wonder about you and who you are? Do you get depressed, anxious or scared, angry and nasty or keep it all down. Do you and she have children. Where was your father? How is your sister and have the two of you ever discussed your childhoods? etc.

Are there other threads and posts I may have missedd?

Allan

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ASchwartz,

No problem (granted, I'd like a response) with the time thing. I can relate.

With respect to more going on than I realize,... Intriguing! Yes, I know there's something there.

I went to therapy ages ago, but I came to the realization I didn't get anything out of it, it was a hassle to go, and it sucked on my wallet. The therapist got more out of me than I got out of the therapist. I know my record is always available to read, and I've on occasion considered reading it, just to see if the therapist was even on to anything, but I generally don't care.

I remember being at this one place where I was asked (I think it was a generic abuse question) in a form (paraphrasing) 'Has your spouse ever hit you?' Of course I answered yes. (I chuckle remembering this.) So the time came that they (several doctors) gathered around in front of me and wanted to know about my abusive wife. I looked at them funny. I said something like "she isn't abusive." They looked at me funny, and then I basically told them that my wife spanked me and I like it. Their reactions were...hmm...not what I expected. Then they started asking other things, and as I recall, I got the feeling they were trying to see if my answer would change. It was rather humorous.

Could therapy help me? I don't think so. Therapy would happen when I couldn't be there and would cost more than I'd want to spend, and then likely end up with me feeling like a dummy for paying for it. Plus, the drugs are soooo expensive and never have no side effects. (I always think of the imaginary SNL skit where they're spoofing these drug commercials and there's some guy in the background demonstrating the possible side effects as they're said. I'd think that'd be hilarious.) Yes, it might be nice to talk with someone, but first they'd have to relate well enough for me to accept the expense. (Expense does not mean only money!)

No, I'm not frustrated now, as I understand enough to not feel frustrated any more. No, it's not perfect, but I also do not expect it to ever be. It's a trade-off, like everything else I can think of. I love my wife, as much as I've ever known love. But understand what I'm actually saying there. There is no definition of love, for love is a feeling. For that matter, any word I might use will come out to you as something less than 100% of what I meant. Otherwise, we'd be sharing a brain. Words mean what they're accepted to mean. They are defined by other words which then are interpreted by other words and so on and so on. I always hesitate when I use the word love, for I can't really define it because love is a feeling. It's like Data on Star Trek NG asked to Jordy (sp?). "Describe the feeling 'happy.'" Jordy figured it'd be easy but then later discovered it couldn't be done. That makes sense to me. I love my wife, but I say it knowing you'll never 100% understand what I'm saying.

So you're saying you think I'm a sadist in some way that I don't see? Please elaborate. I think you're wrong, but then like I just was getting at, your definition and my definition aren't the same. First, I'd like to know how you define the term.

And then you intrigue me again! You should elaborate. When you say something akin to "in ways unexpected," surely you must know I want to hear more.

As far as anger in all of my postings, I can understand that you could see them that way. I'm a rather matter-of-fact person. Coupling this with the lack of emotion of the Internet's tongue, without an emoticon, for what they're worth, I could see how my manner can be viewed as angry throughout. Granted, I don't intend my posts to be that way, for the most part, but it is what it is. I am angry deep down. That is true. Therefore, there is a means, at least, for it to seep into my posts.

This one I have to quote:

"I still wonder about you and who you are? Do you get depressed, anxious or scared, angry and nasty or keep it all down. Do you and she have children. Where was your father? How is your sister and have the two of you ever discussed your childhoods? etc."

First, are you asking a question or making a statement? I'm guessing that it was not your intention to confuse me.

Do I get depressed? Yes.

Do I get anxious? In what context?

Do I get angry? I am angry.

Do I get nasty? Yes. The shallowness (best term for this vague context) of people at times causes me to be rather cutting some times and I've released what I'd best describe as a reasoned verbal barrage. In other words, I'd let nonsense things slide and not make mention until something, sometimes small, causes me to release the stored incongruities on the poor guy. I usually feel bad afterward and question whether I should let things stand or apologize.

Do I have children? No.

Where was my father? Not participating (in the context of the FFF thread.)

How is my sister? In what context?

Have my sister and I ever discussed our childhoods? Yes.

I've posted on one or two other threads. I really don't have the time I'd like to spend. In fact, speaking of anger, I'm currently angry that here we have such a wonderful communications medium but yet the time to spend is so small. I think it shouldn't be this way but also realize I can't (not really) change it.

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