Frozen

[Guest deadman]

Sleep. Sleep. The monster is gone!

[bezoman]

I know exactly how you feel. The only advice I can offer is: don't give up. Life is terrible, but you only get one.

[malign]

Well, I've definitely been in the "frozen" state before. A place where it seems that anything you do might make it worse.

I'm just curious, though, why you think anyone has a fixed series of steps for you to follow. You're willing to close off avenues at will and tell everyone how not to help, but our job is to propose something that not only works, but that you're willing to try. My question is, what's your role in all this?

Granted, something happened to you that was bad enough to cause PTSD. I'm not taking away from that at all. But it's still your job to live.

You said "no happy", so that's what it amounts to. If you're going to tell me "it's not possible, but give me a way", I'm sorta out of answers.

So I'm left with reflecting it back to you: what are you willing to try?

[Guest deadman]

Sleep. Sleep. The monster is gone!

[IrmaJean]

I actually very much agree with you about the need for human connection in the therapeutic relationship. Have you tried researching prospective therapists? It isn't always easy to find a good match, but clearly you need a good match to have an environment in which to heal. Interview different therapists. Call them. Keep looking. There are some good ones out there. If you start talking with one and it feels off, leave and go to another. This is your life. Fight for yourself. Tell the doctors about your adverse reactions to medications. Did you have a psychiatrist that prescribed the meds to you? I presume you tried changing medications and dosages? If medication seems not doable or helpful to you, explain this to your doctor.

You want a path to start on? You have to take the first step. Look for help. I get the impression you have not had competent therapists who have been trained to counsel clients with PTSD. Look for one who is. Tell him/her what you need.

[Guest deadman]

Sleep. Sleep. The monster is gone!

[Guest ASchwartz]

Hi Deadman,

I fully know about the problems of getting health and mental health care when you have medicare and disability. Its just not fair and it is terribly upsetting and frustrating. You and many others are caught in this dilemma.

I am not sure but its possible that you can get help at the local hospital. Hospitals often have mental outpatient clinics attached. They take medicare and that should not be a problem. I don't know if the hospital in your area has such a clinic but you could check it out. Also, you could try the hospital emergency room. Report to them how awful you feel. They also take medicare and may give you medication and refer you to a clinic that also takes it.

Finally, there is a non profit organization that provided psychotherapy and psychiatry and take medicare and it Catholic Charities. You do not have to be Catholic and they are very helpful. Finally, I know the Salvation Army provides help for drug and alcohol addiction. I am not sure about mental health but you could call them and ask.

Maybe you have tried all these things. I don't know but its an attempt to help.

What do you think and what suggestions do the rest of us have???

Allan

[chatterbox512]

Deadman,

I can sense your desperation as I read your first post. I am curious though how you expect to get help if you want everyone else to give you the answers. None of us are here because we have had wonderful lives that have turned out perfect. We all have challenges that we struggle with. Everything from major depression to PTSD and Bipolar. Self-Injury and anxiety. Maybe instead of asking us to tell you why YOU should believe something, maybe you should read what we have been through and come to your own conclusions. We have all struggled in life. Some have become successful in dealing with the immediate everyday struggles, and some struggle with getting out of bed. Some struggle with having the financial means to get the help they need, and others have the help but still feel trapped in who they are. I know that you feel alone, like there is no way out. Things do not happen in a step by step process, that is just not how it works. You have to be willing to take steps to improve your life. You have to be willing to make small achievable goals for yourself and accomplish them. We are not going to hold you accountable for what you do or don't do. You have to be willing to do that yourself. In terms of counseling there is always a way around a big wall. Try what Mark said, try the hospital or the Salvation Army. You just have to ask and you can be lead in the right direction. But we can't be there with you physically, you have to take the steps yourself. We can only be there in spirit to support you.

We are all responsible for who we are, what happens to us as adults, and who we become. Yes we all ended up in situations that left us feeling out of control, but as I told a good friend of mine. If we made it through that, than we can defeat the demon that resides in us from that experience.

I have also been through some very difficult things in my life time, including abuse, abandonment and insecurities. I set small goals for myself to achieve. I set my goals for a year. This year I am going to work on my self-esteem. I have to write something positive about myself everytime I write in my journal. We all have days that are going to break us down and make us ask WHY, is it worth it to keep going?

My suggestion to you is to slow down, make your goals things you do everyday any way, so that you feel like you are accomplishing something. Getting out of bed, getting dressed, taking medication, eating meals, feeding pets, etc. Once that becomes something that isn't thought about anymore than increase your goal to finding a therapist, take a walk, call a friend, etc. Eventually it will be the goals like finding a gym (if you so wish) and going, Going to school (if you so wish) finding a significant other (if you so wish) etc. Take your life into your hands and make it as successful as you can!!

[Guest deadman]

Sleep. Sleep. The monster is gone!

[58corvette]

Will DEATH Solve your Problems? and Answer your Questions?

Are you in any Trouble with Courts or Law? How about JAIL; That may Help!!!

Addicted; So is My Son. His ONLY Salution at this Point (do to his troubles with Courts & Law) is Treatment & or Jail.

I live in Hotel with him. No SSDI Or Medicare at all. And will shortly be on Streets. Physical Problems, Mental Problems, No Income & in my 50's.

But im Still Here & Im on this Site as You Are; Feeling Frozen & Hoping for Help. What other Choice is There?

The Alternative to Our S_ _ T is not the Answer. The Salution; who Knows? Time? Happy Talk? Tough Talk? Or just a Wake Up Call Period!!!

[IrmaJean]

Apparently it is also offensive for me to be in the shape I am in and ask for help. What I don't understand is why asking for specific direction or answers is offensive to you.

You asked that we point out the errors in your thinking. Here is one. No one ever said anything like this. It is good that you are trying to reach out for help. I do think that you underestimate yourself, though. You're obviously a very intelligent man who likely does have the capacity to gain insight into your situation. It takes some positive support to do this (a counselor, supportive friends), but I believe that you can. What that does is put some power back into your hands and give you some measure of control in your own destiny. That's not saying you should "get over it". It's saying that you can take some steps to help yourself to healing from this.

I understand that you are feeling frustrated and angry. You want help and haven't been able to find any due to the expense of therapy. Have you considered Allan's suggestions?

[Guest deadman]

Sleep. Sleep. The monster is gone!

[malign]

DM, I had stepped back when I saw that others were also trying to engage with you. I had hoped that a diversity of people might show you that no one here is trying to make this harder for you. But I did have some thoughts for you, over night, and I think I might as well share them.

Ball's in your court ...

Let's get this one out of the way first: this is not a game for me. We are not opponents. I'm not debating you, or questioning your reasons for what you've chosen not to do.

(This is true of the others here, but I'm speaking for myself, at the moment: )

I am just an ordinary untrained person who volunteers time to help people in pain. You definitely qualify, so I suggest we work together to see what we can do, as opposed to what we can't.

So, what's next? Well, you certainly wouldn't be wasting so much time talking to us if you wanted to die, so how about we drop that whole line of inquiry? How about: you want to live, you just want to be assured of certain minimal qualities of life. This is reasonable; most people feel the same way.

So, perhaps the "next step", if you want them stepwise, is to make a list, privately or on here, of what those minimum requirements are. I think it would be instructive to write them out, because the next "step" is to examine how they might be addressed.

For instance, you might feel that you need a certain minimum safety from other people. Now, no one gets a guarantee in life, anyone can get mugged, but there are steps one can take to meet their needs. You could decide not to trust anyone you haven't known for at least five years, say, or you could decide to go live as a hermit in the desert. The point here isn't "what you should choose"; this is your life. It's to get to the point where options can be explored constructively.

No one has said (please re-read if you think otherwise) that you are responsible for the abuses that were done to you, whatever they are. All we're saying is that no one else will be responsible for your recovery from those abuses. Or your choice not to, if that's what happens.

[Guest deadman]

Sleep. Sleep. The monster is gone!

[malign]

Thank you, DM, for engaging me on this.

I meant that I expect that some of what I think is wrong.

It's possible. No blame attaches; we all make mistakes.

Debate is a possible way to learn. It can be frustrating to participate in, though, from our side. I think that's all that you were hearing, not that people were offended. You're trying; we're trying.

I assumed, perhaps erroneously, that this forum was meant to help find those paths.

No, we attempt to find healing, for ourselves and others. And, I would submit that the "perhaps erroneously" was unnecessary. Just because the people who have answered you so far may not have helped you doesn't mean they weren't trying.

I have assessed my position, the likelihood of ever finding any solace or purpose that would make life worth continuing, and the looming horror of my last years ...

Can I venture to suggest, without being able to prove it for lack of sufficient background information, that perhaps, if there is an error in your thinking, it might be contained somewhere in this sweeping generalization?

Keep in mind that I'm not interested in arguing with you. If you truly believe that your thinking there is accurate, then I will readily admit myself to be at a loss.

I know the isolation must end or I'll be dragged off in a rubber jacket. I know that the fear level has got to drop. I know this outrageous string of bizarre and devastating bad experiences has to stop. I need to get one right in a row before I can convince myself that anything but misery and failure and suffering is possible. I'm Pavlov's dog and know it.

This I found very useful. At least you're thinking about paths, even if you don't know which is first or how to proceed along them, you're starting to look up at goals. Would you be willing to expand on this a little? Perhaps you're not comfortable with giving background information, but can we work with forward-looking stuff? What, for instance, do you feel you would need to be safe, so that the fear level could come down somewhat?

I have absolutely no doubts about your intelligence. However, my own was of limited utility, when I was suicidal. I eventually had to rely on other parts of my brain, because all thought ever got me was more despondent. I don't mind playing Socrates, at least barring the hemlock, though, if you find it helpful.

Again, thank you for the bit at the end. It helps to re-focus our discussion on what can be done. I definitely have no intention of impugning your intelligence or character. All I'm trying to do is switch it into different pathways ...

[IrmaJean]

Instead' date=' I meant that I expect that some of what I think is wrong. I can present my case, make my statements, and support what I think is true. At that point I toss the ball to you so you have the same opportunity to make your case and [b']convince me that I am wrong and need to make a correction. In debate we find truth and solutions, otherwise all we have is unsubstantiated opinions and unproven assertions. I intended to learn from you.

Is your perception of truth hurting you, DM? I don't think it's so much about us convincing you that you are wrong. It's more about you giving new thoughts and ideas a chance in your mind. In order to do that you have to challenge your beliefs.

I'll give you an example from my experience in therapy. I was feeling really low, I'd lost a friend and felt that I'd failed to help this person. My therapist suggested that my desire to help others was, in part, self-serving. This brought up a lot of resistance and anger in me. How dare could he even suggest that? The word selfish...selfish...selfish was beating me over the head...which, to me, was the worst thing imaginable to be. It was painful, but I had to consider and allow this possibility and challenge my former beliefs. When I got inside of that belief, I discovered that whenever I felt good about myself for doing something kind, I would immediately punish myself for having those good feelings. Not very healthy! I have since changed these thought processes.

Try to give these other ideas a chance and see what fits for you. You might need to debate some with yourself because it is you who would have to allow and accept new truths.

I assumed' date=' perhaps erroneously, that this forum was meant to help find those paths.[/quote']

I can share with you what paths worked for me. I can make suggestions. I do want to help.

I need to get one right in a row before I can convince myself that anything but misery and failure and suffering is possible.

The past need not always repeat itself. Building feelings of self-efficacy could be helpful. Can you think of something you did well today and focus on that? I think you expressed yourself well today. This is something to build on.

I've examined until I have nothing left to look at in my life and need outside information and ideas to move forward.

If you're hurting, there is always more to look at or different ways to look. I agree that outside information can help spur your mind, but I hope you won't sell yourself short either.

I don't mean to upset you with anything that I write, but please know that I speak with a genuine voice. I hope tonight is not painful for you.

[Guest deadman]

Sleep. Sleep. The monster is gone!

[Guest deadman]

Sleep. Sleep. The monster is gone!

[Luna-]

deadman, I fear you have come to the wrong place. We're not a help agency or advice centre, we just support each other in our journeys. We've not done anything to deserve your aggression. Those who have spoken to you have endeavoured to help out of kindness. You've snarled at them and thrown it back. I appreciate that you are badly hurt but snarling at people only alienates them. We come to this place for solace and peace and we don't deserve your hostility.

If you want solutions to your problems and step-by-step answers, you won't find them here. All we can offer is kindness and listening, not answers. For steps to take, you will have to look elsewhere. Try not to alienate people who are merely endeavouring to be kind.

[Guest deadman]

end of participation

[Luna-]

You're not unwanted, deadman, nor am I telling you to go to hell. I am simply pointing out your hostility in the face of kindness and saying that we are not endlessly patient counsellors here, we have needs (such as gentleness) and triggers (such as hostility) too, and asking you please to respect that.

You have read several things into my reply that weren't there, but I am not here to debate points with you and I don't wish you any ill.

[sensitive_woman]

Deadman,

I know its easy to say and difficult to take proactive steps to come out of it but you have to. This life is too precious to waste over negative energy and thoughts. I'd just say 'Change your frame of mind', take slow steps to develop a positive attitude, yes and I mean a 'positive attitude' even though you don't want to hear happy talks.

Few Positive Steps

1) Read "The Secret" by Rhonda Byrnes, it changed my life a lot. Attract positive thoughts and actions.. and then you set up a cycle and attract more positive energy in your life.

2) Exercise Regularly. Don't sit brooding around or pitying yourself. Exercise releases endorphins (chemicals in your brain) which pep up your mood.

3) Get involved in some activity that you like doing which is positive i.e. DANCE, SING, DRAW... do whatever it is that makes you feel good as long as it is proactive.

4) The best way to get out of depression or self-pity that I know of is, find another person in need of help and HELP OUT. Join an NGO and teach something... anything 'positive' to disabled kids. Even if you dont help and just go there and sit among those needy people initially, understand what they need and help out slowly a little at a time it will be a big help. I have tried to do that actually and I find great solace in it which words cannot describe. If you don't want to face people, sit behind a computer in an NGO and help them raise money, DO THAT. But get out of the self-pity mode somehow.

And now I shall make sure that I try and follow all the things I have told you as well. I have to get out of this self-pity sad mode of my life as well.

Thank you for being there. Life is too precious to brood and waste worrying.

[chatterbox512]

Deadman,

Have you ever considered going back to school to be a lawyer?? You have the amazing ability to argue the hell out of a point, and have a very logical analyitical way of thinking. You would be one hell of a lawyer, one to be feared because you would win most of your cases. Just a thought and a possible suggestion.

[Guest deadman]

end of participation

[finding my way]

deadman, would talking about the things that happened to you help? Some people find relief from their thoughts doing that. This is an anonymous place, and we will listen.

Something I discovered along the way is that anger has no end. It ever renews itself. It is a font of energy everlasting and I guess it has it's use. I had to find something else though, something else to live on than anger. It was quite a discovery for me that that was even possible.