Frozen

[Guest deadman]

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[Guest ASchwartz]

Hi DM, Athena, IrmaJean and Cant...

First, I want to gently point out that this is not a fake world. Yes, its anonymous but the people here are all real and care about one another a lot and that includes me. By the way, I am not anonymous here and you can explore this web site, see my picture and my background.

There may be a certain kind of safety in isolation, especially when you have been traumatized but its also depressing. I would like to think of this site for some of you who are isolated, as a first step to reaching out into the world. In other words, if there are nice people here and there are, there are nice people in the outside world, too, when you are ready to go there.

Lastly, yes, gambling is an addiction and best avoided. Especially with gambling, the sociopaths and crooks reign supreme to rip people off. Its a great way to "lose your shirt."

I'm not sure I have covered everyone and please excuse if I left anyone out. Tell me if I have.

Allan

[Guest deadman]

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[Lindamomof7]

Hi Deadman I totally understand your concerns of reality and safety here on a computer where all we see is "words".

I think in time though the ease of some members identity or intentions will come through the computer. And although I am Linda Mom of 7 I could really be a perverted balding overweight senior citizen. (Wow thats a scary thought)

But I think it is in our words time after time that are written here on the computer that really identifies who we really are. And if those words are supportive, honest and hopeful to another then I guess it doesnt matter if I am burping and farting in smelly dirty clothes.

I hope you find some comfort in knowing there is a little bit of trust left in all of us even through all our issues that we are dealing with. Although I do enjoy support groups in person, sometimes I really enjoy not having to deal with more judgement of them then I judge on here... Good Luck to you

[Guest deadman]

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[Lindamomof7]

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[malign]

DM:

This is actually a fascinating topic. Can I enlarge it into: "What is reality?"

It's true that we get more information from a face to face encounter. It's not necessarily true that the conclusions we base on that information are more accurate, though. My possession of wrinkles, dandruff, and a reduced quantity of hair doesn't actually make me more (or less) honest. It's part of what makes me me, but not a very big part.

You're right, you can't be sure that any of the people who have offered you help are genuine. I was particularly amused at the image of IrmaJean as an evil psych professor ... However, you can't be sure that any of the people who have hurt you in real life are truly evil, either.

What we're "attaching additional value to" isn't the individuals we encounter. It's the totality of our encounters. You have to admit that this would require one immensely whacked (the technical term) conspiracy for all of us to be urging you to live, for our own purposes.

Is this just a halfway house on the way to real life? Sure, if you say so. Certainly, there's no way for my electrons to prove you wrong. :-P But it doesn't mean that I don't care, just because you are still capable of doubt.

And, by extension, you found yourself capable of caring, when you read posts outside your own. Was that unreal, in some sense, simply because you can't be sure that that person exists? You do know that suffering comparable to that exists, and moreover, you responded to the concept of suffering because you know that you exist. How could you then say the wrong thing?

We definitely all have a different view of what reality is, what life contains, what its point is. But we have that in the outside world, too. Isn't that okay?

I can't prove that your attitude is the result of cognitive distortion; I haven't lived your life. If those thoughts are to be challenged, you're the one who's going to have to do it. In other words, the effect of this place will never be to brainwash you into believing what the electrons tell you. You're going to have to do your own changing.

That's the point: you're not trying to decide whether to believe in us; we don't matter.

You're trying to decide to believe in you.

[Guest deadman]

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[IrmaJean]

Certainly you have a great deal of positive energy in your very robust sense of humor, DM.

IJ sent me a photo of a rather attractive woman that she claims is her own image.

:rolleyes: I thought that perhaps my plainness would offer a realistic view.

She suggested that this should verify her existence as a live human being but I was not fooled.

I wasn't exactly trying to verify my existence, but was hoping a small giving gesture like this might be received with the understanding of my genuineness. I imagine I can only be me and hope that my caring shines through.

I hope that tonight is less painful for you, DM.

[Athena]

I love the way this thread is going - What is reality? Thank you DM, for the highly amusing image of me. I had a good laugh:).

I had the same fears as you a while back regarding "are people who they say they are?", and the more I post about myself, the more I take off my profile. Originally I had my age, country, family details and past careers up. Now that is all gone due to paranoia. Anyone who has read more than a few of my posts will know that I am north of the 49th parallel. But that little tidbit will always be buried in a long thread or in a PM. On one occasion I had a nightmare that somebody from the web found out where I lived and then I found my basement window open. I woke up in a sweat:eek:. I wasn't even worried about anybody in particular (except the notion that one of you is really my ex and is preparing a case against me so that I can lose custody of my kids forever - or is waiting for the perfect suicidal moment to take his best jab at finally sending me flying off a rooftop:eek:). In my early days here, I thought about particular people making stuff up, maybe to get attention, or to play with people's minds. But I find just a little too much reality to the stories for them to be simply made up. And if they are willing to go out and lie to a bunch of people every day and spend all sorts of time doing it, well I think that kind of person would find a more commercial site where they could figure out how to make money at it, or stalk somebody, or otherwise take advantage of others. I have not seen that here. (The odd commercial interest that shows up here makes themselves obvious and seems to be escorted off the site rather quickly).

Not long ago, I had the signature "Keep it real" at the end of my posts. It was basically a reminder to myself to go out into the face to face world and not get addicted here. I took it off however precisely because this place in some respects IS more real than the flesh and blood world. Yes, a lot of physical details, intonation, body language etc are left off here but on the other hand in the flesh and blood world, we don't show who we really are underneath all that, as we do here. I would argue that what's inside the package is far more real than the box, the pretty bow and the wrapping paper. Hmm...that just reminded me of the movie "Avatar".

[Lindamomof7]

I......................

[Guest deadman]

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[IrmaJean]

Best of luck to you, DM. I hope things go well.

[malign]

DM,

You definitely have a point about the possible downside of online relationships. I think you may also be seeing part of its upside, now, as well: for many people, the extra distance and anonymity actively help them to say things they've never said before. Sure, they'll probably have to get to the point of saying them out there, as well, but it helps them to see how we electrons respond, first.

As for never doubting that you were a nice, caring person: good, I'm glad you're aware. Now stop calling yourself a monster. :-P There's another explanation for the carp [sic] that has happened to you; it's certainly not deserved.

We all matter, DM. There are just slight differences in how aware we each are of that fact. But as I was trying to say, it's up to each of us to develop that awareness; it doesn't come (directly) from outside us.

I would also point out that imagining all the possible nefarious motives behind the people who have reached out to you is a defensive mechanism that can serve to push those people away. I know you know, and I know you don't really mean anyone any harm (and I know that most of the people recognize the pattern from their own lives). I just thought, since we were talking about awareness, that I would throw that in here.

I, too, have absconded with a photograph of a grinning blue-eyed gnome that I keep in my profile so people won't ask about the tentacles. Keep your eye on the pixels, don't mind the suckers ...

You don't necessarily have to swallow the irony; you also have the option of spitting it out. Plus, then you might be able to sell it.

Good luck with the indignities; I hope they end up helping you.

[randomperson]

First time reading this thread, just checked out the last few pages. Thanks Athena for letting me know about it. Great stuff lot of things I can pick up myself and learn from what has been said.

I have trouble understanding how others react to me, the subtle cues. Even recently I have found I have under read and over read people's reactions to me. So I know what you mean about shying away from posting. I think many of us feel this way. What gets me over this is two things. One if no one posts that person will feel rejected and alone, like no one cares. Two if I don't post and try to learn how others react.. learn from my mistakes and do my best to be helpful, how will I ever get better at it? Still at times my doubt do take over. Emotional growth is a very slow journey I am finding.

It is nice to meet you Deadman and I am glad you are feeling better.

[Guest ASchwartz]

Hey DM,

semi-organized electron particles

Speaking for myself, I'm not a semi organized electron particles. I'm fully organized, so, there.

Allan

[Lindamomof7]

Hi Random you hit it on the head, emotional grwoth is a very slow journey and you also are right when you said learn from your mistakes even when posting here.

It is what it is , someone will inadvertently take something good that was said and process it totally different from what it was originally meant to be.

So with a tough shell sometimes, practice makes perfect (well somewhere close) and I guess it is in the posting that the true person will come through without fearing an attack on words from others.

I hope you find that balance or under read/over read something someone says. To be honest sometimes people's responses are hard to understand because they talk in, I dont know the correct word but I'll say "circles" so with me not feeling well at all, I dont understand what they are trying to say but then again you all could be saying the same about me!!!:eek:

[Guest deadman]

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[malign]

By the time you see them, they're photons. :-P

Besides, the tentacles are 'round back.

{Don't get called "lovely" that often; it feels a little odder than I expected.}

I'm glad you're in one piece, and richer.

Maybe the buck was for new undies.

The gravity table thing sounds like something to try, though it might be nice to run it by someone with a medical degree whom you trust (if such a beast exists), depending on what they've done to your back in the past. For all you know, they might have designed their "repairs" for a certain orientation of gravity.

[Guest deadman]

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[Athena]

Sorry to see you go, D.

[randomperson]

Hey I am glad you got your kids back for a bit!

Yep I am just as bad with social interactions. I always think people feel the worst about me. Saw a show once said this was a side effect of PTSD.. who knows. Bad thing for me if I counter it with nah they are not thinking the worst.. sometimes they really are or I have done something to upset them lol.

I'm kinda blunt and when my emotions are flip flopping that makes for a bad combo.

Sorry you are in so much pain. My mom is in the same situation and it is hard for me to see her hurting all the time.

Athena is right on the posts. Often if there is no writing it is because of having things come up and has nothing to do with us. Like you though I feel like I have the social skills of... eh.. something that has no social skills lol.

I would say rock.. but during the 80's the pet rocks had a bit more social skills than me haha.

[IrmaJean]

DM, I'm still here and I still care very much. Work and school have been taking up a lot of my time so I'm still a bit drained. I hope your surgery goes well.

[Guest deadman]

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[malign]

Another thing to point out is that you weren't the last person to speak before the long silence. I know that I was waiting for more news from you before chiming in again. Sometimes we lose sight of the fact that a silence can be broken by either side ... I'm glad you said something instead of continuing to wonder.