What is it with me?

[sadgreeneyes]

Thank you for sharing the story. I think I did understand most of the meaning. Its a beautiful story if the man look for his wife or search for his wife this way or seeing her beauty this way. But I have also heard that muslim men can be so caught up in their religious faith that they avoid intimacy with their wife after marriage as they think that if they stay away from sex and intimacy they think that they will be awarded and gifted with beautiful virgins in heaven, which Allah has created for them. This is absolutely crazy.

But I am sure the story you tell means a mans yearning to go quest for his wife? and not something outside his wife? not something beyond his wife`s beauty?

[sadgreeneyes]

I read the story at wikipedia,it sure was a beautiful story, but so so sad, Majnun died in the wilderness as Layla had married another man as her father wouldnt let Majnun marry his daughter. Layla died later and Majnun died out in the wilderness, he wrote in the sand poems to Layla and they found three last verses from him beside an unknown grave.

What a beautiful love story, but so sad. It touched me, nearly shed a tear here.

[sadgreeneyes]

I just saw your other post about fathers raising daughters.

Thank you for being so helpful to me with sharing information.

We do tend to find men who is similar to our fathers, have your father ignored you you will put up with being ignored by your partner, if your father was violent we will usually find violent partners or men who is capable of being violent. In the book "Woman Who Love Too Much" it tells that in our adult relationships we tend to try to help this person, gaining their love if we just work harder or are just waiting or are just patient enough, that in the end he will love you, we think we can change an abusive person, we have a need to pick these men as this is what we are familiar with and this is a way to continuing strive for the love we never got from our father or in childhood. If we end up with a normal healthy man we will feel bored because we have no one who needs our help, the excitement is gone and there wont be any "work" or "tasks" to do. The excitement trying to keep this man isnt there. This is very sad reality for survivors of abuse and a hard pattern to overcome.

I am just starting to understand and accept that no one can make someone love them and I have learned that I dont have to strive to get someone love me, I have learned that if someone loves me he will love me without me striving.

When it comes to fathers feeling ackward I can understand this well.

Just to say that I would say a 13 year old daughter isnt yet adult, she is still a child even she starts to be a woman. But I know what you mean with that:)

I think also its important for us to know that everyone has the right to live their life free of harmful things. Many people think they have to stick with a person and accept what is harmful to them, whether it is emotional or physical. One man said to me, some years ago, that if there is something you doesnt like in a person,its just to walk away. It was like a revelation to me, why hadnt I thought about that before, I was free to go if I wanted, no one "has to" stay in a situation they feel uncomfortable with. This is why I say I have the right to live in a home without fear, and if a person doesnt accept that then he is free to go too. Because I believe if there exist true love there are no pain and both parts, the woman and the man, will do anything to protect each other from harm. If you really love someone you would rather protect that person from harm than to leave that person. If the person would rather leave then it isnt love. In a marriage or relationship there shouldnt be room for porn or nudity, this is not healthy in any way and not at least healthy for a marriage, so I love Islam when it comes to this. I wish the whole world had this view, but unfortunately western people think this is great and normal. Its not. Its evil, from Satan. Believers know this. So to not want that in a family home is just right.

I know many women struggles with this, but thats why it is so important for women to know that they have the right to live free of this harmful stuff. And a man who doesnt respect and accept that can just leave. No woman needs that kind of man. Its time to stand up for ourself.

[spiritual_emergency]

sadgreeneyes: Just to say that I would say a 13 year old daughter isnt yet adult, she is still a child even she starts to be a woman.

Yes. When we are just learning something, we're not going to be learned at it. That's why we practice by "acting" and that's also why we need to be forgiving and compassionate towards those who are just learning about a certain way of being.

~ Namaste

Music of the Hour:

[spiritual_emergency]

I amended your timeline with some additional points you'd made sadgreeneyes.

I also tucked away a post I'd made that I wasn't certain belonged in this space.

~ Namaste

[sadgreeneyes]

Hi again spiritual_emergency,

just saw your post, thank you for doing that, thats very kind of you:)

[randomperson]

I am sorry you are hurting. You feel much like I do. Past pains make it where we need to feel very loved and secure in any relationship. Kinda ackward being a guy and like that lol.

I think you are wondering like I have with my past relationship if it can or will work out.

I will admit shamefully I did backslide and fall back into the same patterns with my ex. It was after I realized it wasn't going to work out with the woman in my office.. then it started a chain of thought cycles that ended up with me wondering if I misjudged my ex, if I could ever find love with her or anyone. So in the end I rushed and got on her FB FL again... which honestly was a mistake.. it only led me to doubt her and myself much much MUCH more.. and didn't help a thing.

Point is I am with you in this roller coaster struggle.

One thing I am learning my thoughts have me rush in and then rush out.

That has been really my greatest and only mistake in this.

Right now I want to delete her from my friends list again and just forget about her...but that would be me rushing out again. Seems as time has passed she has morphed into the 'cheerleader' type personality and that was what I was sensing, why she has been doing a lot of this negative stuff that is bothering me.

I will move on.. but keep her in the background for now just in case I am wrong because my perception is off right now on so much.. and to prove to myself I have changed. I need this for myself. I am doing this for myself not her.

I caution you about deleting phone numbers and things unless you truly truly know in your heart it is over because it is what I have been doing. I do know the rushing in and out has hurt things more between us and that is the one thing I have done wrong.

Your man is doing just like my girl is.. and it is not you. But they are who they are. The situation is what it is for both of us.

When you are hurt and it will happen again like it does with me.. step back and look at it from an outside perspective before reacting. I have been doing that more.. though I still have been failing a lot. I would love to say it has helped things.. but it really hasn't. Thing it has done is shown now it is not me.. it is showing I am getting better myself and that on its own is giving me more peace. Rather than it hurting me so deeply I can't describe it in words when she ignores me or does something wrong.. my love for her is fading which in turn is helping me deal with her negative reactions.

We can't force people to change who they are, nor to like us in any manner. I am realizing this and it has been a hard lesson for me to learn lol.

But we can keep them from hurting us.. from hurting the core of who we are.

People have told me this and I have held onto it.

If she loves me.. truly loves me.. if I quit clinging on to her scaring her away she will come back. If I try to hold on tighter it is sure that she will one day leave or our relationship will come to mean nothing.

I say all of this because I know you are hurting so deeply now... I know because you are where I was some time back.. wondering doubting everything. My heart goes out to you. I can't give you advice as I am not making much progess in my own struggles. What I can do is share my story and hope some of the things I am learning can help you in some way.

[sadgreeneyes]

Hi randomperson,thank you so much for sharing this with me because what you are saying is so important and true, yesterday I was thinking could I only try to turn my destructive and self pityfull thoughts around and see it from my husbands perspective, when I did I didnt feel so vulnerable and sad anymore, I manage to stand up from the bed where I had been laying and crying full of depressing thoughts,managed to think ok lets see what will happen tomorrow when we are on cam again, would I be able to ask him about the txts without him being angry OR angry for the message I sent him yesterday ( which was not written directly to him, visually)but still written to him ( and he couldnt know of course was the txt to him as he would think I had sent it to wrong person by a mistake, I knew that yesterday too of course). So I had to ask today as he didnt say a word about it, so I did ask him and he was very understandable and supportive, said he did care but thought I didnt bother about it as I had not said anything. But why is it always me who has to say why dont I get messages, couldnt he say it? when he doesnt get from me you know, I told him this and he said he had been waiting for my txts too. Anyway, if that is true, then I mean he could ask me like I ask him, if my messages did mean anything to him,he agreed and apologized and said I am right with my words and that I was right its important to txt each other regularly. He said money was an issue, but I think that was a lousy excuse for a husband to say to his wife as he has always txt me before and anyway its lousy to say, I said thats bad, didnt say it was lousy of course, but made him know it was bad as I was his wife, he said I was right.

I think that some of the things we do when our thoughts are running on and off is that we do things that is so irrational or erratic that people do get scared as long as they dont know "why" we are acting this way. And it is sure we would get scared too if seeing this behavior in them.

I am sorry you are struggling but glad to hear you look at it the way you do, I think if we try to see it the way you describe and rather take care of ourselves and not being so needy the people we wish to draw into our lives will come to us.

I did delete the number but that was only because I knew we would talk on cam anyway, so I wanted him to say something today, but then it ended up with me having to talk to him about the txts. So I knew anyway we would talk.

But I do agree with you, if you have no other way of communicating than the phone then it is scary to delete the number because we will regret it if we dont get in touch with that person again. Just to say the words necessary.

If we try love ourselves more then we will become stronger persons and the people we love will see that. Its hard, like you have I have been failing too,but we try or best and it sure is healthy for us.

So thank you for sharing this as it seems we both have had the same thoughts and you helped me be more aware today about this:)

[sadgreeneyes]

After talking it out I even asked him if he was angry. He looked at me and started smile/laugh with a grin as he didnt understand what/why he should be angry for.

Its a sad thing, we who have learned to not express our feelings, needs and thoughts in childhood, we will continue ask as an adult are the partner angry on us. And for no other reason than just the adult survivor of abuse know.

[sadgreeneyes]

Hello sadgreeneyes,

A simple tool I often recommend to people in crisis is the use of a timeline. The value in a timeline is that it helps restore order and can also allow us to see where events or clusters of events are similar. I've taken the experiences you've spoken of and placed them on a timeline so we can all begin to see your experiences a little more clearly...

I used question marks where I wasn't certain how old you were when you experienced those events. I think I have placed everything in the right order but you would know better than I. Nonetheless, when we place all these distressing events on a timeline we can see that some of them are related to each other.

What seems to emerge from this timeline is that first of all, as a young child you would have longed for love and acceptance. It seems possible that your mother might not have been able to give it, either because her disorder rendered her incapable of doing so or because she was away at the hospital so much.

In your mother's absence your father and your feelings regarding his feelings about you probably would have become even more important. It seems however, that you did not make an emotional connection with him either. Then, there was your older brother, who died when you were just a young teen. You mentioned a sister -- is she still part of your life? Do you have any other siblings aside from her?

Adolescence is a period when people typically begin to develop sexually and may begin to experiment sexually as well. During this time you report some experiences that sound confusing, frightening and sometimes, shameful to you.

As an older adolescent, you experienced more confusion. First, when your father abandoned you but took on a new family and second, when your first boyfriend told you he found the women on Baywatch to be attractive. Both these events seem to have produced a feeling of being rejected and unworthy.

All of that seems to take us up to the present moment wherein you are having these same fears of being abandoned or found unworthy. These are painful feelings and that's why we get anxious or angry about them.

As a suggestion, perhaps you could fill in the blanks on that timeline and rearrange it to make sure it's all in order. You could then bring that with you to the first appointment with your therapist and show it to them. Those are the things that are bothering you greatly so those are the things that need to be addressed. Bear in mind, this often has to be done one step at a timeeven though we often want things to be fixed, or resolved, or come to peace with very quickly. Also be reassured that a good therapist does not force you to go where you don't want to go. You might find that you can talk to them about experiences that feel shameful but you shouldn't have to if you don't feel comfortable doing so.

In addition to seeking out a professional therapist there are other things you can do to help yourself along the way. One of them is learning to be a compassionate friend to yourself. The other is learning to be a compassionate friend to others.

As a compassionate friend to yourself you learn to stop beating yourself up or blaming yourself for the things that were beyond your ability to control. For example, you could not control that your mother was ill and in the hospital during so much of your early childhood. That doesn't mean you weren't a beautiful, bright, playful, precocious, excitable, curious, inquisitive child who wasn't worthy of being loved.

When some people are first learning how to develop compassion, they find they can often find it easier for others than they can find it for themselves. For example, you may know or read about someone else who has had an experience that was similar to your own and this will generate a feeling of wanting to treat them kindly because you understand their pain. Over time, as you learn to understand your own pain, you learn to treat yourself kindly too.

Compassion is very different from "self-pity" or "feeling sorry for ourselves". Often, when people do feel these emotions, they beat themselves up for feeling that way too! Compassion however allows a person to feel that it's okay to feel what they feel, because they're human and all human beings go through difficult, painful and challenging experiences. Many of them struggle with them too. Just as important, many of them heal from them as well.

Meantime, something else that might be useful is to create a second timeline. On that timeline, try to place some of the events you have had in your life that you experienced as being positive. Maybe you had a close friendship in your childhood, or you once went on a trip to a place that seemed beautiful to you. Perhaps you remember a special sense of joy in seeing a rainbow after a thunderstorm, or can remember the pleasure you found in a certain pet or activity. It can be important to try to identify those places of small joys to help counteract the idea that everything is awful and has always been that way. No life is ever filled with only painful moments. Always, there will be some shafts of light, some places of wonder, some magical moments. Part of recovery includes remembering that side of our life experiences too.

Continued good wishes to you in your recovery.

~ Namaste

I have changed the timeline, I hope it is ok I did that here.

Timeline: First Draft

Age 3 or 4: My mother was still at home and she sat with me before sleep a couple of times I remember and tickled me under my feet as I liked that so much.

Age 4: Loses mother (to hospitalization). Previous to this loss, mother (had schizoid personality disorder) was in hospital throughout most of her early childhood, from age 4 till age 13.

Age 5: Grow up with father, brother and sister. Father had history of violence. Hit mother and children, chased grandmother with knife.) A couple of women over a period was given to help in the house, last women was very kind.

Age 5-12. Dont remember anyone being in the home with us children,dont remember where any of us were. I guess we must have been in the house till our father came home of course as there were no other place to go. Remember a couple of events from this time.

Age 6: Running naked outside. Questions this now.

Age around 8: We put chairs with blankets, to make kinda like a tent in the living room so we could hide in there, I liked the dark and to be in that tent.

Age 9: My brother brought home a cat, I liked the cat.

Age 11: Found a friend to be with till I was 12.

Age 12: Introduced to pornography by older male.

Age 13: Saw my mother again. (Mother came out of hospital.)

Age 13: Start waiting for father to come home.

Age 13: Experience that was perceived as shameful.

Age 13: Brother dies as a result of suicide. (Brother was 18) Previous to his death he had exposed himself sexually on different occasions. (Older sister was 20 at this time. Said that brother killed himself because of sadgreeneyes

Age 13: Grandmother ( father side) tells its good he died as his life was miserable as he wanted to become a narc.

Age 13: Develops fears that father will make sexual overtures. Even today, dresses to downplay her body/figure if father comes to visit.

Age 15:Kept prisoner/made scared for the 3 last weeks in Sri Lanka as new woman to my father was psychopathic, still is,I was to blame her brother was becoming a devil wanting to kill his family, holding a hugh knife.

Age 15: Father throws her out. Has partnered with new woman since then and speaks of her children as if they are his own. Does not speak of her or her sister in same terms.

Age 15: Had some joy living at a folk school even I had to stay there because the main reason was I was homeless.

Age 18 : Found my best friend and she still is the best friend I ever had. Even we lost much of the contact for years after I moved to west. These 3 years living in east was my best years as I had a real true friend.

Age 18: Boyfriend forces himself on me, got blackout because of a drink and didnt wake up before after 17 hours. Sexual abuse did happen. Day after he kicked me in the stomach.

Age 21: First boyfriend tells her women on Baywatch are good-looking. Produced thoughts of not being attractive enough.

Age 23: First marriage. Husband "talked about models and singers how far they had come in life ... had to be 43 kilo to live up to that image or people would laugh of me."

Age 23: Seventeen years ago, PTSD begins.

Age 30: (2003) Suicide attempt. (Taken to hospital by first love J.)

Age 31: (2004) J. returned to wife (he had been separated)

Age 32-36: Abused by boyfriends.

Age 33: (2006) Mother died suddenly.

Age 36: Sister tells me father abused mother by taking pic of her while nude, showing it around laughing.

Age 37 : Found my husband, but I am still scared

Age 37: Marries husband.

Age 38: Sleep problems.

Age 38: Bad dreams.

Age 38: Was being trained by a male leader/boss. He lost his temper with her and accused her of asking too many weird questions. Experiences breakdown at work.

Age 38: Waiting for husband. Feels unworthy. Deeply bothered by pornography and all kinds of nudity.

[Lindamomof7]

.............

[sadgreeneyes]

Thanks Lindamomof

I still dont understand though why I have ptsd as it started at age 22, triggered by my first boyfriend. I still wonder what has caused my ptsd.

I still wonder did it come only from the incident at age 12 or have something happen before this. I dont know. How can I know?

[spiritual_emergency]

sadgreeneyes: I have changed the timeline, I hope it is ok I did that here.

Absolutely, sadgreeneyes. It is, after all, your timeline.

sadgreeneyes: I still wonder did it come only from the incident at age 12 or have something happen before this. I dont know. How can I know?

Sometimes, a traumatic response is not related to a singular incident but rather, a series of events. It may be that you were able to deal with some of the events of your life up to certain point. Then, there may have been another event where it simply became too much. No doubt, these are things you will work through in a variety of ways -- through your own reading and relationships, through relationships with peers, and through a relationship with a therapist.

~ Namaste

[sadgreeneyes]

Hi again spiritual_emergency,

I am with you that it can be a series of events, not that I know much about that as I have read that only one incident can cause trauma too. I remember Allan said there must have been repeatedly abuse verbally,physically or sexually,and when I look at the timeline that is right. I know my timeline shows that there is much connected to the same bad stuff. But all of the abusive men, I met them after I got ptsd. Except for the boyfriend who forced himself on me at age 18.

I guess when I get a therapist it will give some answers. Sometimes I wonder will one ever get to know the real cause or what have happened to cause such a horrible disorder. Now I only know one reason, the older man.

[sadgreeneyes]

Just came to think about that my fear of abandonment didnt start before the latest 5 years.

I actually read just now that people "can" be misdiagnosed with being psychotic when they in fact have ptsd. Exactly what I know today that they did with me, thinking I was psychotic and depressed when I in reality struggled with my ptsd.

[sadgreeneyes]

put in new thread

[finding my way]

Hi greeneyes! How are you doing with finding a therapist these days?! I hope you are able to get to work on some of these issues and find some footing on a new path. I'm sorry things have been so painful.