Early signs and if they're really as gradual as they're explained?

[Treeline]

Hi everyone,

I have so many questions about psychosis these days. Hard to talk to professionals without sounding desperate, which is avoidable, and obviously can't talk to friends unless they have issues themselves,

Maybe none of you have facts to give but I really want to know more about the early signs of schizophrenia in particular. Obviously symptoms all extremely liminal, like just because I'm withdrawn from "reality" when I might just mean I'm withdrawn socially and not literally in a fantasy world. So I have those conversations a lot. I have issues, social issues and reality/work motivation issues, all of which I place in my own hands and put it upon myself to sort it out. I get increasingly annoyed at my "depressed" flatmate who's breaking at the seams and seems to be forgetting the basic human needs to keep focus. Like being on medication means you can forget that you still have a duty to treat others right and recognize friends. But people seem to forget that and put all their troubles in the hands of the professionals. Isn't it frustrating?

Anyway, my point was, I put a lot of troubles I have down to this and the need to sort out the things I do wrong involving bitterness and wanting to be doing something else somewhere else etc. which you need to remove before you can be helped.

But I do wonder, for someone who's on a constant loop of guilt, highs, the guilt, guilt and relating to everyone else, it's hard not to believe I'm a product of everyone else's actions and thoughts. Like there's no "me" and I only act certain ways around certain people, with no core. I'll laugh, happily, if I'm with people who are laughing at something silly and entertaining. But I'll absolutely detest them the moment I leave the room. That concerns me as I know it's not down to issues I have to sort out as I tried to explain before.

It's the little things like that which I suppose are warning signs, and I just want to hear people's thoughts on the development of more serious illness? As for paranoia and hallucinating, there are no out loud voices but an increasing number of conversations and out-of-nowhere thoughts which speak across my stream of consciousness, and It takes me a white to realize that when wearing earphones, several times a minute I'll rip them off to see if someone was calling me. When they are, I'll ignore it....it's a very similar feeling for seeing things, but more frantic.

There's always a presence behind me, and I have to often check to see if there isn't. I'll see nothing, then have to check again cause I might have missed something. Then I'll often check again, because I keep missing whatever it is out of the corner of my eye each time. Today walking up the stairs I had to keep checking if there was someone sat at the top. I knew I couldn't SEE someone but I'm acting as if I can. It's very strange, and my heart starts to race. I know there's noone hiding in my wardrobe or under a pile of clothes but I have to check. Even now, fully aware, I'll do it anyway.

It's very worrying, It's very hard to know what to listen to or watch, so in the end I ignore everything, everyone, cause I really can't tell the difference between someone sitting near me looking at me, trying to get my attention or call my name, from the same person doing none of those things when I think they are. So I'm gone really,

I wrote a lot but help people can relate to the sort of cloud behind the "symptoms" and "signs" and share similar viewpoints? I'm not so much worried as curious, but quite often curious grins grow weak and confused like a train hit you and then evaporated leaving you unharmed or something. Constantly waking up from dreams, wandering how on earth you felt or imagined that way, get on fine, slide down the hill, crawl around blindly in the mud, then you're suddenly at the top again like it never happened and you're fine but bewildered....

[spiritual_emergency]

Hello Treeline,

I once had a conversation with a fellow who was concerned because he kept hearing thumps in the night and he thought this might be an indication that he had "a schizophrenia thing". I suggested that the next time he heard a bump in the night he should immediately turn to his companions and ask them if they heard it too. If God, Jesus and the Devil replied in the affirmative -- they had heard the bump too -- it was "a schizophrenia thing".

ha ha. I joke. Half-heartedly. Of course, the vignette above suggests a state of complete ego collapse whereas you seem to be asking about what might be called the Prodromal Phase of a slide into psychosis. No one can give you a diagnosis over the net and you should certainly question one you receive in that fashion. I can tell you that my own experience was preceded by a series of crisis events that became overwhelming. If I withdrew, it was a means of trying to "wrap my head around everything" and "make sense of" everything that had occurred. I have wondered since, if I had been able to talk those things out with someone if I would have ended up in a state of ego collapse...? Eventually, I did find someone I could talk to and that was very helpful.

As a result, when I am talking with other individuals who have such experiences or think they might be, I'm often concerned about what else is going on in their life. For example, you state that you are experiencing loops of guilt. Guilt is typically linked to an action that we feel we have done wrong. Can you talk about this guilt you feel? Where does it come from? What do you think you did wrong? Have others told you that you should feel that way? Have you spoken to anyone else about the guilt you feel?

Maybe that would be a good point to focus some attention for a while.

[spiritual_emergency]

If you're up to it, maybe you could talk about this a bit too...

Treeline: I have issues, social issues and reality/work motivation issues, all of which I place in my own hands and put it upon myself to sort it out.

I tried to handle my own issues too and that's not such a bad thing but there are times when we can benefit from some help too. Sometimes, this is nothing more than having other people as sounding boards.

One thing I do sense from your post is that you're having some anxiety, or concerns or worry. It's possible that some life stressors are getting to you and if you could minimize those or find an alternate (but effective) means of dealing with them, a lot of those anxieties/concerns/worries might evaporate in the process, along with concerns that you might be "going crazy".

This is why I think it's so important to talk about what else is happening in your life and not only, how you are responding to what's happening in your life. So, feel free to talk. I won't be back for several hours but I will try and check in again later. For now, the requirements of my daily living demand my attention.

~ Namaste

[Treeline]

Thanks for the reply,

by guilt, the word loop is important, because this sort of guilt is more guilt in terms of lifestyle. I neither have a cosy ignorant one nor a hard working straightforward one, but as for anyone entering their 20s, there's a huge mash up of feelings about your future, obviously. So there's that, and I'm very artistic, I spend a lot of time doing and thinking whatever I want. Which is good I don't have to rely on other people to appreciate my music or art if it gets me going. There's a parallel with relationships there, as sometimes I tell myself I don't care for certain people or talking to anyone whatsoever, if there's the slightest hint we're not on the same level. Hard to explain. I love the friends I have, but also the opposite.

I don't think the guilt is that important, I don't think I've "done" anything. More the over-thinking in my head, going for certain arguments, losing them, feeling I should be stronger and not do things like I'm doing now, as in talking about problems I don't have. But then they come back and I swim around really confused in all of these issues, and the guilt I mentioned is exactly the snapping out of that, feeling stupid, telling myself it's attention seeking and dramatic and all those things

I do understand when you say noone can provide a diagnosis, I don't think I'm after that satisfaction here, I just want to hear what you have to say about it. You mention your own series of "crisis events" which I find interesting, were they sudden losing touch on a huge scale?

I had one experience which sort of marked the start of my "putting odd meanings to everything" It first happened for me when working, I'm a student working in an open-plan environment and there's a girl I know. I was in a fairly standard mood, with the usual fidgety looking about and behind me, but I started to hear people were talking about her, like something had happened, like a death or something, I didn't really know at the time but it was just people around me having normal conversations. But anything I heard was linked to it, somehow. She was actually fine, just working like I was, out of sight though. I got very distressed by this point as I was sort of aware I had no grounding for this, yet something huge was telling me something weird and upsetting had happened. (I think the fact I like her is beside the point! unless it's sub-conscious caring..moving on..) it got to a point where I was getting stressed myself, just experiencing a whole room of people talking about it in little groups, it was bizarre. So I had to leave, I got up and walked past one of her flatmates which was bizarre challenge, I felt like he was confronting me or smiling at me understandingly, either way he was just going along with his day.

I got home alright, it was just terrifying and new to me. From then on I've been sort of hearing snippets of conversations, genuinely believing they're being said, and sort of muttering to myself or have conversations with myself about horrid things I want to do to people. I'll be sitting, motionless just listening.

It's kind of like listening in to the conversation over radio but on the wrong frequency, believing what you hear is what you ought to be hearing, but it's simply not........

If anything it just tells me I have to stick with friends no matter how close which should be a given. It's just hard when you don't know what they're thinking and can be so paranoid towards them. Luckily there are some people who will react to the bizarrely pointless conversations I'll have, as if I'm the same me they've always known. It's the acquaintances outside that I'm more concerned about, I've recently started to hear the words my parents say differently, very hard to have a conversation with them without them having to stop me to ask what the hell I'm trying to tell them, which was never the case.

Guilt! I think guilt is linked to all of this, cycles of believing something, just like waking up hungover and regretful but hopeful and determined to not drink so much next time you're out but that NEVER happens

[spiritual_emergency]

I have to run Treeline, but I will be back. You'd asked about my experiences -- there is a link here to a summary should you be interested: http://thefifthbody.homestead.com/index.html

There's also a lot of links to some other information. One thing that you may find reassuring is, if, by chance, you were experiencing a breakdown, a lot of people get over those things and then, move on in their lives. Breakdowns however, do tend to insist that we pay attention to them and learn to take care of ourselves in the recovery phase.

Anyway, more later.

~ Namaste

[spiritual_emergency]

Hello again Treeline.

by guilt, the word loop is important, because this sort of guilt is more guilt in terms of lifestyle. I neither have a cosy ignorant one nor a hard working straightforward one, but as for anyone entering their 20s, there's a huge mash up of feelings about your future, obviously.

I have found great insights for myself via Jungian psychology so I'll share a bit of that with you in this response. You might appreciate that approach all the more as a result of the creative side of your personality. Within the model of Jungian psychology, psychosis is related to damage that occurs to the ego. To paint a very simple picture -- the ego is your sense of self-identity.

It's been my observation that the ego is more prone to collapse at certain natural transitional stages of life, notably: from childhood to adolescence; from adolescence to adulthood; from adulthood to mid-life. I attribute the vulnerability to the state of flux/openess/uncertainty the ego is in as a result of the life-transition. Add some additional stressors and that can be enough to produce ego collapse.

Among the vast majority of individuals I've spoken with who have experienced psychosis (there have been hundreds at this point) there has nearly always been an event or series thereof that seriously challenges their sense of self-identity prior to the onset of psychosis. Sometimes these events may seem quite small or insignificant. Other times, they're easily recognizable as troubling or traumatic. Whatever they are, they will always be very significant to the individual in crisis.

Some examples of psychological events that can produce ego collapse:

- Failing at a goal you had set for yourself

- Losing a significant relationship

- Discovering that you are not your parent's biological child or that your spouse has been unfaithful

- Being publicly shamed or humiliated

Other actions that are associated with ego collapse include:

- Sleep deprivation

- Drug use: both prescription and recreational

- Spiritual practices such as meditation or contemplation

- Food allergies/sensitivies or deficiencies

Once the ego has been damaged/hurt/wounded to the point of collapse, symptoms are going to emerge. Imagine, for example, that someone comes to you with cuts in the soles of their feet. The blood is the symptom that needs to be addressed and for that you would need antiseptic cleansers, bandaids, maybe some gauze. However it would also be useful to understand how their feet came to be cut. If there's glass all over the floor, obviously that will need to be taken care as well. If it's not, they're simply going to show up needing more bandaids tomorrow.

If we compare this analogy with psychosis -- there may be specific symptoms that will benefit from any variety of treatments such as decreasing your work load, learning skills to address anxiety, making use of medications, implementing life-style or dietary changes, etc. However, it's also beneficial to look to any potential causes and address them as well. This is where various forms of psychotherapy, peer support, self-help, etc. can also be helpful and necessary.

I do understand when you say noone can provide a diagnosis, I don't think I'm after that satisfaction here, I just want to hear what you have to say about it. You mention your own series of "crisis events" which I find interesting, were they sudden losing touch on a huge scale?

I don't know if that account of my own helped provide any insigths for you. Certainly, in my own experience there was a period of challenging events and then, there was a very dramatic shift in my response to those events. Usually, by the time the dramatic shift has taken place it's quite apparent to everyone that something is wrong, but for some people the shifts are never quite that dramatic.

I don't think the guilt is that important, I don't think I've "done" anything. More the over-thinking in my head, going for certain arguments, losing them, feeling I should be stronger and not do things like I'm doing now, as in talking about problems I don't have. But then they come back and I swim around really confused in all of these issues, and the guilt I mentioned is exactly the snapping out of that, feeling stupid, telling myself it's attention seeking and dramatic and all those things...

It seems to me that you have a problem. It might not be the problem you think you have but the mere fact that you've become quite worried about it is a problem itself. As a suggestion, it might be helpful to explore what's available in your community -- a search engine or phone book can be helpful. You don't have to act on any of that if you don't want to, but if you decide you do want to consider some professional support, you'll already have some idea of what's available and where you might feel most comfortable.

[Treeline]

I found your link absolutely fascinating. Different in circumstance and experience of course, but very relatable in terms of the presence of life-changing events and loss of ego. It was very settling to read what I could on Jung also. I've been familiar with him but never looked in to how it could relate to how I've been struggling to understand my current state. I've been on and on in the past month about "losing myself" and "not existing" anymore, something I didn't see coming. I almost lost my closest friend several times recently, the one person I have incredibly strong ties to emotionally, we share a lot of ideas and lose ourselves in them. Since the summer this has happened, and I've been on this constant sort of "dying" phase, really similar to how you talk about descending in to a sort of mythical-orientated world of universal characters and ideas.

I sense a little post-rationalisation (ironic to use that word in this conversation...) in terms of how I feel after reading it all. Even so, it sort of helps me describe exactly what I've been doing alone. So everything there was exactly what I needed to hear, and precisely what I came for. Just some way of hearing something quite similar to I'm going through without resorting to making up the explanation myself

I did very briefly mention an attempt to heal myself. It didn't go so well at first, then I forgot to try and went even further in to myself which was when the first terror started and then continued from that day. Like I said, it's like my sub-conscious is touching everyone I hear, putting out its own thoughts on what they say. It's a new insight in to life but not one I trust, nor should I...I've been constantly catching glimpses of the immediate future since then too, which I'm sure is me sparking off minute deja-vus, but I won't try and analyze those. They're intriguing but maybe worrying only in that they push me further towards thinking something is up. I want them to happen more, so they do, it's been happening constantly all week. I'll think of the word book and someone will sing about reading a book the second after, or I'll think about something just as specific and somebody will speak of it the second after also. It's like a network of significance I attatch to coincidences. Maybe I am seeing the future as a gift given to me a month ago? (Or maybe not... )

Thanks again, I valued reading that immensely. I've been feeling a sense of purpose in all this, being fully aware I was collapsing my outer walls, getting in touch with my sub-conscious, letting it reign, and then re-building the walls from the ground up as a new, clearer person. I can see that, so just have to keep on track and not get worse or forget how much direction and potential I can have if I just remember to look up!!

[spiritual_emergency]

I'm glad you found that to be helpful Treeline. I don't know if you've found your way to my blogs but there is plenty of information there that may be useful to you as well.

Meantime, the idea of ego collapse seems to resonate quite strongly for you. It's been my experience that if this has occurred or is occurring, the world can come flooding in. Some people seem to experience this as an invasionary force; others find it can be a little more awe-inspiring.

It's also been my experience that contents from the deeper psyche can erupt forth. This too can be experienced as a negative or positive experience, or both. Shadow content seems to be fairly common and this can be quite frightening for some folks, so you might find it helpful to read up a little on that in case you start having those kinds of experiences.

I would also encourage you to investigate your local options in case your situation does escalate in some manner to the extent that you or someone in your immediate circle believes you would benefit from professional assistance. This will probably be much easier on you if you have some idea of where you would go, what would happen, what kind of decisions you might be required to make and what kind of choices you'd make when faced with those decisions.

I do consider two markers to be characteristic of the need to seek help immediately -- the first is a since desire to hurt yourself, the second is a sincere desire to hurt others. It's also been my experience that the theme of death can skirt around the edges at times. This should never be interpreted as your death may be required, or the death of anyone else for that matter. More often, it is an indication that something is dying or needs to die. Metaphorically, this dying is related to a perspective, a belief, an assumption, a fear. Anyway, watch for that one in case it comes up.

Meantime, there is another thread here that discusses a promodal experience. It's possible you might find some helpful insights there as well: Prodromal Phase

~ Namaste