So sorry

[Sissagwaad]

I can understand that you are feeling frustrated, Sissa, but we need to remain respectful at all times here. SR is clearly suffering, and he needs our support.

SR, I appreciate and hear that you are trying your very best to be well again. Please take gentle care of yourself.

I' am perfectly fine. He doesn't 'need' our support.

He seems to more than anything else 'ask' for support to believe him to be deplorable, dispicable, unforgiveable.

SR is at one with himself and his choices.

With utmost respect Irma, it is true sr is suffering.

The fact is suffering is optional, and sr insists he 'can't do otherwise.'

He systematically clings to this belief, out of fear.

There are tools available that he can teach himself, but instead he rests on 'cant, ' and so he will remain, self victimizing himself, until he decides to do himself differently.

Drugging an individual, or chemically lobotomizing their brains, are a barbaric practice that serve doctors more than patient recovery.

I am thankful for Sr for reminding me of how we can emprison and limit ourselves by not looking for proactive choices to resolve or disolve our fears.

bw

[Musicman]

While Sissa's last post is clearly filled with frustration, he brings forth some good points.

First off SR, we are not telling you that you are intentionally choosing to feel the way you do. We are merely suggesting that you are unintentionally (subconsciously?) choosing the wrong things to think about and focus on.

The last few weeks, I, too, have been waking up in the morning and feeling like shit, but I haven't let myself focus on this all day every day. The feeling passes after an hour. I think about where I am, where I want to be, and how to get there. I have also been spending a good deal of time thinking about you.

Clearly, you've noticed that we haven't "shoved you off as trash." Why do you think that is? There is only one simple reason. It is your choice whether you want to come to terms with and accept this reason. Just be aware that if you make the wrong choice, you're going to miserable the rest of your life.

Your comparison between your suffering and cancer is just plain wrong. If someone is inflicted with cancer, he cannot control it. Chemotherapy and other treatments may help, but neither he nor the doctor ultimately have the choice about whether these treatments will stabilize his condition. If the doctor tells him to follow a certain lifestyle, and he agrees to do so, he may still die. You are not agreeing to accept our help. If you were, you'd be fighting a winning battle. You want help, but you won't take it because you don't feel you deserve it. Don't you see that you've created an infinite loop? Only you can end this loop, and you can do it whenever you agree to do so.

Whoever's ass you'd shoot (as you mentioned in your previous reply) may as well be mine.

[Sissagwaad]

I am sorry if I sound hopeless guys. Maybe this is the place where you come when you make mistakes that the rest of the world wouldn't view as disgusting. It's not like I am not sorry and wish everyday I hadn't done this. When over 5,000 people view your post and don't respond, which in reality is higher than that since probably 85% of the posts are from me, you know that they are thinking, oh my God, that person is sick. I don't blame them. Those of you that had the tenacity to forge past the opening post in the thread, I commend you. A few years ago, had I read it, I probably wouldn't have responded either. I would have thought, what a freaking sicko...and now I come to realize, oh, that sicko is me. I don't think I am returning to therapy, I simply can't afford it. It's not like it is going to be helpful. Shoot, I don't even have any groceries in my house. I had to swipe a cold pizza from the teacher's lounge so I could eat dinner tonight. I am probably going to lose a lot if I keep going to therapy at $150 bucks a session. I just can't afford to get better. I can't keep buying meds thinking that they will make me better when it is clearly a "choice" as Sissa points out. My eyes are numb from crying....I think every day is going to be like this. I should win an award for the performance I put on at school. Everyone thinks I have this perfect life. I think I am probably beyond help here. I have my life to live, but I don't really have the will to live it anymore. If that is a choice, I guess that is what I am choosing, like I would want to. I made one dumb choice, and now all the rest of my life is governed by that choice. I think that roses are things I used to see before I realized what an idiot I am.

So the remedy, solution, is to keep your eyes wide shut, and to ignore roses? Hello? When is enough enough? All this wailing, gnashing of teeth, woe is me, the sky is falling. Wow, if you used half the effort you put into that, into studying and learning to do yourself more happily, you'd be there.

enjoy~~~

[Musicman]

@Sissa I am not going to judge you on whether you are right or wrong to be posting messages like these. However, SR is in a very fragile mind frame right now, and for his own safety, it may be best to lay off the accusing posts.

@SR, I implore you not to make any rash decisions. The 5,000 people who have read this topic likely do not find you disgusting. If they did, they wouldn't be on these forums in the first place. Furthermore, there is no way that a decent human would find you despicable if he or she bothered to read about the good you have done. I feel relieved that over 2,000 people have viewed my own thread, even though there are only about 25 replies (some of which are mine.) Furthermore, I read a lot of threads on this site that I don't respond to. Just because I don't respond, it doesn't mean I find these people despicable.

You'd be surprised, but I'm a total pessimist. I habitually see the bad in people. Still, given the chance to better understand people's situations, I may change my mind about them, as I've done with you.

There is so much to live for. If you end it, you will never get the chance to see. If you killed yourself, I guarantee you that your family wouldn't be viewing you as "trash." They'd only wish they could have gotten you help.

You are sounding like you are once again contemplating suicide. For your own safety, I am supplying you with the number to the US suicide hotline. 1-800-273-8255. If you feel that you can no longer live with yourself, PLEASE CALL. At the very least, it would be a favor to me for having offered my help.

Please, take care of yourself.

[Leo1954]

SR

You left me a pretty sassy response on your last post to me. I seriously think you should listen on what Musicman just replied. You said to me I was a victim of circumstances.

Well my daughter happens to have brain cancer are you saying that she is just that. You have had more support but, you always say I can't also you are not the only one here that feels like they have made serious mistakes or has problems from past, or maybe future.

She my daughter has some serious & life threating illness's. But I will not say she can't that is her decision to make which she has died 4 times and brought back & still wants to fight.

Your decision as well feel different than she. I see no future for me! I would never give up on her because she has never said I can't so I would be careful on what you interpet could & can't mean. I definitely know that you have a pretty shitty past & see no end but I think you have changed my mind today on what I have sayed on here recently. It's not saying I can't it is stating also on how I feel. So what are you seriously going to think about being positive anything just say any little thing that could be not can't!

[soregretful]

With a heavy heart, I am telling you this WILL be my last post here. I came here for help and I feel crappier than when I started. Sissa, I wish it were as easy as you think it is. I know now that this place is for people who have problems that are COMPLETELY different from mine. It is with great sadness I say goodbye to those I tried to reach out to in a time of need. I will never forget you or what you tried to tell me, but the fact everyone is telling me that I am feeling sorry for myself and not trying makes me think of myself as even a bigger loser than I already thought I was. Good luck and God Bless. I hope that life brings you happiness.

Goodbye!

SR

[Musicman]

I am posting this message with the hope that you will read it before you leave. I hope that life brings YOU happiness. Call the suicide hotline if you ever feel you want to end it. For all the time I have offered to you, and for all the responses I have written, your death would be in my hands. I don't believe you should leave, but that is ultimately up to you. However, if you drop your therapist and stop looking for help, you will never feel better.

Wherever life takes you, I hope you will find happiness. If you ever need to talk, you know where to find us.

[danni]

SR.... I hope you won't leave. I have been following your thread but haven't responded until now. I feel your anguish with every post and my heart goes out to you.

I believe you are right. I don't think you are "choosing" to feel as you do. I can't imagine how hard it must be day after day to feel as you do. Mental illness is every bit as serious and real as any other physical illness. It is also treatable and sometimes can be cured. Especially when you are in distress it is really hard or impossible to just suck it up and think a different way. That's where therapy can be helpful. I don't know what methods your therapist uses but ask about CBT.

What I hear from you is that you ARE actually choosing to get better. You are seeing a psychiatrist and a therapist. I hear your frustration and hopelessness but it can and does get better. Remember that it is a process, not an event. A marathon rather than a sprint may be a better analogy. You didn't arrive to this point quickly and you will have to work hard to get to a better place. I am confident that you can do it but the work is very hard. It is also worth it in the end.

We are here for you and don't judge you. What would be helpful from us that would support you better???

[Sissagwaad]

Yes How can we better fascilitate your exploring choosing to choose another perhaps more useful approach?

[IrmaJean]

I'm sorry for my delayed response here, SR. My laptop adapter died today and it's a struggle writing in from my phone. I've managed to find a desktop now.

I also want to offer my support to you. I can tell that you are trying very hard and do want to feel better. This is a very positive thing. The fact that you are in therapy trying to help yourself says a whole lot. I'm so sorry you've been struggling and hurting for so many months. I hope that you decide to stay on here as part of our community. We would like to support you in any way that we can and hopefully make the road to healing a little less painful for you.

Take gentle care, SR.

[Guest SomethingOrOther]

Hi sr,

I think it’s good that you decide to stay away from things that make you feel worse. I can’t accept the reasoning that everybody tells you you’re not trying, though, because I didn’t. I said that I find the happy choice approach of some of the posts dangerous. Thus, a more differentiated view might be good. That way it’s already not „everybody“ anymore.

If your meds don’t do what they should, you can discuss this with your psychiatrist for maybe they can be changed. I hope you find a way to continue your therapy. If you decide to post here again, Id’ be interested in the methods you used to calm down the guilt. Maybe we can support you in trying to make them work better.

I also want to suggest that you could increase your „control“ in participating here, if you limit yourself to one or two posts a day. That might help change the dynamics from „discussion“ to „posting“. Also, it’s your thread and therefore YOU should be the last person who needs to withdraw. I realise that is the description of a „should state“ and not one that has been an „is state“ ever in the recent past. So, I can accept your decision, if you feel it’s beneficial for you. This is by no means a place only for people with easier problems, though.

If you don’t post again, I hope you'll take good care of yourself.

S.

[Sissagwaad]

Hi sr,

I think it’s good that you decide to stay away from things that make you feel worse. I can’t accept the reasoning that everybody tells you you’re not trying, though, because I didn’t. I said that I find the happy choice approach of some of the posts dangerous. Thus, a more differentiated view might be good. That way it’s already not „everybody“ anymore.

If your meds don’t do what they should, you can discuss this with your psychiatrist for maybe they can be changed. I hope you find a way to continue your therapy. If you decide to post here again, Id’ be interested in the methods you used to calm down the guilt. Maybe we can support you in trying to make them work better.

I also want to suggest that you could increase your „control“ in participating here, if you limit yourself to one or two posts a day. That might help change the dynamics from „discussion“ to „posting“. Also, it’s your thread and therefore YOU should be the last person who needs to withdraw. I realise that is the description of a „should state“ and not one that has been an „it state“ ever in the recent past. So, I can accept your decision, if you feel it’s beneficial for you. This is by no means a place only for people with easier problems, though.

If you don’t post again, I hope you'll take good care of yourself.

S.

I believe SR wants what he wants.

He has a mind and brain that responds and functions quite normally.

The issue though, it seems, is his ideation with 'having to' suffer, and fears.

and the simplistic, unrealistic, limitation that the only way he can accept himself, value himself, is if he never made mistakes.....hello.

I too am not aware of anyone suggesting or saying anything about not trying. Simply trying, (grimacing, crying, lamenting about anything, does it really accomplish what we want?)

Isn't It about the choice to actually do something, or to not do something, proactively, about exploring and doing change, any change, towards any improvement and self-control over the emotional clothing we put on ourselves?

I shall continue to love SR, even though he continues the peculiar habit of referencing and realizing himself as 'soregretful and sorry.' This is his choice however. He will continue holding onto this habit of thought, consequently his mental anguish, until he decides differently.

love and hugs always sr bw (what we see, volitionally, is what we get:)

[IrmaJean]

This is a peer support site. It isn't our place to analyze. We are here to support one another. Sarcastic comments are not at all helpful. Board rules have been put in place to protect members of the community and will be enforced, if and when it becomes necessary. Demeaning comments will not be tolerated. Please let's respect our community and keep it safe for all members. Let's get back to supporting one another.

[Guest ASchwartz]

Sissagwad,

This is his choice however. He will continue holding onto this habit of thought, consequently his mental anguish, until he decides differently.

I do not agree with this view of things. No one chooses mental anguish. No one chooses a "habit." In point of fact, no one of can know if SR has a habit.

I know that your intent is to be helpful to SR but I must let you know that you come across harsh. You may not mean to and you probably do not mean to. You do point out your support and love and I believe you. That is why I think it would be helpful for yourself to realize that these comments do come across as somewhat judgemental and harsh.

Allan

[Sissagwaad]

This is a peer support site. It isn't our place to analyze. We are here to support one another. Sarcastic comments are not at all helpful. Board rules have been put in place to protect members of the community and will be enforced, if and when it becomes necessary. Demeaning comments will not be tolerated. Please let's respect our community and keep it safe for all members. Let's get back to supporting one another.

??? Are you saying, believing that fascilitating self-anaylsis, is not supportive????

Are you making up, that I am not coming from a deep well of sincere utmost respect, and supportiveness for everyone? Wow.........

[Sissagwaad]

Sissagwad,

I do not agree with this view of things. No one chooses mental anguish. No one chooses a "habit." In point of fact, no one of can know if SR has a habit.

I know that your intent is to be helpful to SR but I must let you know that you come across harsh. You may not mean to and you probably do not mean to. You do point out your support and love and I believe you. That is why I think it would be helpful for yourself to realize that these comments do come across as somewhat judgemental and harsh.

Allan

Thank you Allan, I am ok.

Your post came in after i began with giving the gift of a question to Irma's response.

I respectfully encourage considering the usefulness of dismissing that we allow or not, our being creatures of habit vs consciously aware of our freedom. The quality of held beliefs is fundamental and critical.

What is a habit or habitual way of experiencing an event, if unpleasant, and persistant, anything more or less than a reasoned fear response committed to habit, vs possibly exploring ones options? I can agree it is done with the best of intentions. Isn't the gift to question, is it truly useful?

[Guest SomethingOrOther]

.............

[malign]

Sissa,

Let's try a hypothetical, if you'll bear with me a moment.

Say I run across someone who I believe is suffering from a thought error, and it's causing them considerable pain. It's been known to happen, on occasion.

I will, of course, attempt to give them my own, different, interpretation in the hopes that the insight will be helpful. I might even try several times, in case my choice of words or of illustrative example might not have been understood. The reality, however, is that that rarely works; in particular, the person may well have already considered my view and rejected it for reasons of their own.

In fact, given how little we get to know about others, here, those reasons may well be quite complex and deeply entrenched, and completely invisible to me. The road to wellness has a certain length, otherwise we'd all be there already.

What all that means is that, if I encounter resistance to my view, no matter how good my intentions or how certain I am that I'm right, I don't get to start demeaning the person for not seeing it the same way.

It was that aspect of your responses to which IrmaJean and Dr. Schwartz were objecting. "Thank you Allan, I am ok" is not an answer to "these comments do come across as somewhat judgemental and harsh." Your okness, while it is part of our goal here, is not the whole story: SR's lack of okness, to the point of departing, is what's being discussed.

So, I'll be more blunt than Allan was: For the okness of the site in general, please limit yourself to support. You may disagree with someone; I often do. What we'd like to avoid is arguing with them.

[Musicman]

All intentions aside, we must remember that SR has a very fragile state of mind. He'd considered suicide on several occasions, and from what I gathered out of his last few posts, he was suicidal. If it means going against our beliefs on how to best help someone, we should take any precaution we can not to push them over the edge. One of my more recent posts came across as harsh. I was frustrated, and while it was intended to help, I regret having posted it.

Let this serve as a reminder to EVERYONE that we should not become frustrated an post harsh messages, no matter the intent. It is simply better to post nothing.

[IrmaJean]

As a moderator, I have a duty to try to keep members of the board as safe as possible. Sometimes warnings and enforcing rules becomes necessary.

Sissa, you were warned by me 3-4 times in this thread to be respectful to all posters. You ignored my warnings and continued to be disrespectful and sarcastic. This kind of behavior will not be tolerated.

MM, you make a very important point about SR. The potential vulnerability of board members is something for all of us to be mindful of when we are responding to posters.

I hope that SR decides to return, and that we can continue to support him. I wish him well.

[Sissagwaad]

I appologize for missing message 375 it seems i was busy responding to alarm about my no-nonsense directness to the seeming habit of choosing a suffering perspective.

• "I am sorry if I sound hopeless guys. Maybe this is the place where you come when you make mistakes that the rest of the world wouldn't view as disgusting. It's not like I am not sorry and wish everyday I hadn't done this. When over 5,000 people view your post and don't respond, which in reality is higher than that since probably 85% of the posts are from me, you know that they are thinking, oh my God, that person is sick. I don't blame them. Those of you that had the tenacity to forge past the opening post in the thread, I commend you. A few years ago, had I read it, I probably wouldn't have responded either. I would have thought, what a freaking sicko...and now I come to realize, oh, that sicko is me. I don't think I am returning to therapy, I simply can't afford it. It's not like it is going to be helpful. Shoot, I don't even have any groceries in my house. I had to swipe a cold pizza from the teacher's lounge so I could eat dinner tonight. I am probably going to lose a lot if I keep going to therapy at $150 bucks a session. I just can't afford to get better. I can't keep buying meds thinking that they will make me better when it is clearly a "choice" as Sissa points out. My eyes are numb from crying....I think every day is going to be like this. I should win an award for the performance I put on at school. Everyone thinks I have this perfect life. I think I am probably beyond help here. I have my life to live, but I don't really have the will to live it anymore. If that is a choice, I guess that is what I am choosing, like I would want to. I made one dumb choice, and now all the rest of my life is governed by that choice. I think that roses are things I used to see before I realized what an idiot I am."

How's by you sr? the world,....today, as created by you?

I sense a lot of people, including me, would dearly love to hear from you, and the impossible challanges you're experiencing, ongoingly.

Are you doing anything like a workbook/journal towards possibly discovering greater control over the quality of your emotional life?

I really had no idea how impossible your dillema must seem from a financial perspective above sr. Wow

Can you not simply avail yourself to hospital crisis center professionals, about getting face to face therapy/support you can afford?

I know of many church's and other organizations do pitch in to provide therapy geared to ability.

Would a 'leave of absence,' aka 'vacation' to avail yourself to support at a hospital be of benefit?

Still loving you, bw

[danni]

sissa,

actually, you did not miss post 375. You quoted it in its entirety in post 378.

I wanted to say one last time that your approach is not useful here. SR does not find it helpful, he finds it hurtful. If it is something that has worked for you in your journey, that is wonderful, but not any one way of thinking works for every person.

You have been asked numerous times to stop and I am respectfully asking you to leave this thread in hopes that SR will feel safe to come back and recieve the support that he feels comforted and empowered by. He does not get that from you and has told you so.

[Sissagwaad]

sissa,

actually, you did not miss post 375. You quoted it in its entirety in post 378.

I wanted to say one last time that your approach is not useful here. SR does not find it helpful, he finds it hurtful. If it is something that has worked for you in your journey, that is wonderful, but not any one way of thinking works for every person.

You have been asked numerous times to stop and I am respectfully asking you to leave this thread in hopes that SR will feel safe to come back and recieve the support that he feels comforted and empowered by. He does not get that from you and has told you so.

danni, 'missing' was perhaps is misleading.

I 'missed the content' (as in did not read it methodically as i usually do, or consequentially speak to points specifially) in merely "clicking" on, therefore including his post to perhaps consider reviewing his dillema.

I shall continue to dialogue with SR, (out of respect for the sympathies of others,) privately as long as he desires my walking with him, hopefully as more than just a friend, which is great to have, but someone who accepts his choices, and lovingly suggest considering why, and encourage him to consider his freedom in continuing so, or altering his perspective (in my own humble, respectful, accepting way, as those that truly know me, seem to value and to appreciate. with love.......bw

PS may i suggest allowing SR to speak for himself?

He has not conveyed to me what you suggest, nor has anyone else, and, if you have angry judgemental opinions, rather than questioning more respectfully, perhaps consider writing me privately? (Just a thought, <shrug> don't have to )