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Hi Sardonyx,

I thought I'd try to be a little more informed with my comments and went back through your threads. I have a few observations:

- Look at your first post in your first thread - you seemed very upbeat about therapy. What do you think worked back then? What changed?

- Is there any kind of work do you think you might feel capable of doing on a part time basis?

- Is your boyfriend still with you?

- What else is on your list that you haven't tried?

- Hypnotherapy - by a GP so it's covered by the government health plan - I'd say it's worth a try. What have you got to lose? Also, here in Canada we have this group called GP Psychotherapy. They are GPs who have got the extra training to be psychotherapists. Their fee is also covered by our government health plan. If you find one who is a Psychoanalyst, go for it - you get 3-4 sessions a week, which you currently have time for since you are not working. Once work starts, you may not get this chance again. Also, I would think that it is faster due the increased frequency of sessions (this is the form of therapy I'm undergoing and I have experienced a lot of change since I started last October.)

- Have you considered working with a male therapist? I think there is possibly a different dynamic at work with the opposite sex in therapy that might be helpful. Especially if your problems were related to a man in the first place - father, spouse, other.

I had no idea your depression was so debilitating. I have had depression since I was 6 years old, as far as I can remember. It was not debilitating in life because my parents were very insistent on us 'doing something with our lives'. Hence I became a workaholic robot. Outwardly I appeared normal but inwardly I was going through emotional hell. When I quit working, the depression got worse, which surprised me. More time to ruminate, I suppose. Also, no distractions or deadlines or clients to take care of. So I suggest you consider doing some kind of work, even if only part time. Not so much to turn you into a robot, but something to bring some money in and provide a distraction, and maybe some motivation to get up in the morning.

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Hiya, ty for your reply,

I'll answer your questions first off:

- Whenever I start a new thing (eg new medication, psychotherapy, etc) I am always really positive about it. This is because if I haven't tried it before, then maybe it could work! I think its cause I have a bit of hope that it might work. Another example is every time I start a new medication I will feel great for a week (placebo affect) and then I come back down to my usual state when I observe that it is not actually having any affect. With psychotherapy, it was good at the start because I learnt that my parents actually were not normal, I was not just imagining it, and that it was the cause of my depression. I had previously never known why I was depressed - I just was. And then after that, I was thinking "if she can identify my issues, then maybe she can help me to overcome them". So I was positive for a long time there, and then when I realised that she could not help me, I went back to my "normal" unfunctioning, depressed state.

- I don't think its worth looking at me working until I am well enough to wash myself and do activities of daily living. I cannot wash my clothes, shower (well I manage to shower one time a month actually so I CAN do it), brush my hair, get dressed, buy clothes, clean anything, go to bed at a reasonable hour. If my bf did not cook then I probably would not eat either because I am never hungry. The only thing I CAN do is sit. How many companies do you know that would hire somebody like this? And then even if I miraculously got a job, I would not be able to force myself to do the tasks required. Just sit there.

- Yes my bf is still with me. Why - I have no idea.

- The only thing I have not tried is hypnotherapy. You gotta understand that I have been working on this list for 19 years so I have already gone through every other thing on there.

- This idea sounds good but we have no scheme for it here. I have never heard of any therapy here that has 3-4 sessions per week.

- I had one male therapist but he didn't last long because he was not very good. I don't really care what sex the therapist is, as long as they do the job!! :rolleyes:

I was a workaholic too from the age of 13 until 2 years ago (when I was 29), so I know very well how work affects me. I worked with dual diagnosis clients after getting my degree at uni. Whilst I was working, it made the depression worse because of the severe degree of anhedonia I experience. Making money was pointless because, although it pays the bills, I am still not able to experience enjoyment, and I just waste a LOT of money trying to gain enjoyment (and now I know why, its because i am severely anhedonic, so it was wasted money). And the job itself (and this applies to every job, I have been in many different occupations) is taxing because an 8 hour shift feels like 36 hours. It's torturous. The reason why it is like this is because of my inability to gain enjoyment of any job (the anhedonia again basically).

So my main problem is anhedonia, and they tell me you have to get rid of the depression to get rid of the anhedonia. So its a vicious circle. The reward mechanisms in my brain are long dead. When you are like this, nothing is worth doing, everything you DO do is gruelling and pointless, and the rewards you DO get (eg money from working) is something you don't really want. You said that it would "provide motivation" - no.. it is the opposite. You dread going to work, regardless of the occupation, and it does not distract you at all. You just sit there at work wishing you were dead, because the only reason you are AT work is to keep society off your back, stop people thinking you are just a lazy no hoper. My therapist says fear is a good motivator but I have operated like that since the day I was born and look at me. Definitely not a good way to go.

Do you know of any treatments that are good for anhedonia? I have not experienced enjoyment since I was about 10-11 years old. My depression is obviously not going away but maybe there is something that could target the anhedonia in particular?

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- This idea sounds good but we have no scheme for it here. I have never heard of any therapy here that has 3-4 sessions per week.

Here is a link that describes Psychoanalytic Psychotherapy and may help you find one if you decide to go that route:

http://www.psychoanalysis.asn.au/about_psychoanalysis/what_is_psychoanalysis

Hypnotherapy would be a quicker approach if it works. Somebody recommended a good Hypnotherapist out my way but he doesn't know the extent of my issues so I will have to see what he thinks after I tell him. I have a gut feeling it might work because when I started with my Psychoanalyst, I thought he had done some kind of hypnosis on me. It was very powerful.

And the job itself (and this applies to every job, I have been in many different occupations) is taxing because an 8 hour shift feels like 36 hours. It's torturous. The reason why it is like this is because of my inability to gain enjoyment of any job (the anhedonia again basically).

So my main problem is anhedonia, and they tell me you have to get rid of the depression to get rid of the anhedonia.

Do you know of any treatments that are good for anhedonia? I have not experienced enjoyment since I was about 10-11 years old. My depression is obviously not going away but maybe there is something that could target the anhedonia in particular?

I have spoken with my therapist at length about my 'apathy' for most things. It pretty much is the same thing as anhedonia. Yesterday I asked if one could isolate it and just treat anhedonia in particular. He didn't think so. We both think it is basically a result of depression. Like you, I am afraid to go for a job because I feel it will bore me to death, but yet have enough stress and deadlines to cause major anxiety which for me causes major physical and emotional problems. So I clip out things that 'speak to me' from the newspaper/magazines in the hopes that it will help me identify some enduring passion for something that I might be able to make a living at and not get bored at.

I have had to seek out exciting things in my life to get me going. Hang-gliding, scuba diving, downhill skiing, the brokerage business. And I lose interest in people once the 'newness' has worn off. Strange though - that doesn't happen on this site. Perhaps it is the 'drama' that keeps me interested :D.

So I'm thinking you should write a list of activities you think would be really, really exciting to try. Then pick the one you are most drawn to and go do it. Maybe you could spice up your sex life with your BF. Try something new and exciting, maybe a little risky. Also, think of things in your past that have excited you. I find listening to music is a good daily activity that doesn't take any effort. You can put in whatever music you're in the mood for and sing to it. I find that very energizing. I do that a lot when I drive. My six year old doesn't like it when I sing so now I'm taking voice lessons. That's already shut her up! And - I find the idea of singing in public (without getting arrested!) pretty exciting and energizing. The funny thing too is I cannot sing or play piano without passion. A great cure for apathy!

What exciting things would you like to try?

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Heya Athena,

Those are some good ideas but I would have to get well enough to leave the house to do them. I cannot even dress myself, let alone go hang gliding! I'm not into sex, it bores me senseless. I have never had a sex drive, and that is probably why. And once again that might come under the "apathy" banner or maybe the depression banner or maybe both. That would be another chore to me.

Do you have any ideas for "exciting" things that can be done inside the home? I cannot leave the house in my present condition. I have listened to music constantly since I was about 8 but it doesnt seem to help much, but its good for getting rid of that akward house silence. I can only sing for about 2 minutes and then I stop because I am bored of it. I get no enjoyment out of it, just embarrassment.

I am getting the impression that you guys thing I am just being difficult, knocking back all your suggestions. I am not actually doing that. I am just stating the practicalities of my situation. I am not doing it just for attention. When I say I have not experienced enjoyment since I was 10ish..I mean it literally. And before that, everything was exciting. Mostly to do with toys. But now, there is not ONE iota of enjoyment in anything. And I am not saying that just to be difficult or attentionseeking.. it is 100% truth. To do a lot of these things requires

1. me to be able to get dressed

2. me to be able to self care (look presentable, be showered, have clean clothes)

3. me to be able to leave the house

All of these things I cannot do due to my depression. You probably think I just have a bad attitude but it is NOT true. It would be nice to be able to try all those things you mentioned but I am simply not at a level of functioning to be able to do them. Well I do have a bad attitude on top of that but that is because I have been confined to this house, i look like crap, i stink, my clothes are falling off me, and there is not a damn thing I can do about it! I don't know how people make the leap from "not functioning" to "lazy" or "bad attitude" but if it was as easy as 123 I would be doing it!

And the times I have tried things (before I became housebound, I tried many things, trying to feel a bit of enjoyment, as my therapist suggested) and each time I was bored senseless, and each time I was so disappointed and wanted to kill myself afterwards, because every.. single.. time it was a huge let down. I felt nothing at all but boredom and irritation. And each successive time, it was worse and worse, another stab to the heart when it didn't work.

I can't keep doing things and being let down. It happened every single time. And I tried a LOT of things. I am of the opinion that my depression needs to ease up a bit before I have the capacity to enjoy anything. If I keep doing it and being let down every time, then eventually I am just going to walk outside and walk in front of a bus. There are only so many times you can be let down. Not to mention all the money I wasted on my futile persuit of enjoyment. If I went and did that again (if i was able to leave the house) then I would not be able to pay my rent. So I would be suicidal and homeless.. not a good combination.

And i know you are like my therapist, thinking "yeah they all say that" but its actually true. I have been in a steady systematic decline for 19 years and when I say I have tried everything I mean it literally.. I HAVE TRIED EVERYTHING. That includes trying hobbies and activities that I thought I might enjoy... I tried a lot of different things and no luck. Let down after let down. And you are probably thinking "well, she just didn't try hard enough" .. but I believe that I did. I am not knocking your suggestions back just for fun, it is for valid reasons. There is not much you can do when you cannot leave your house!!!

Look, I have had enough of this. I am sick to death of people telling me to do things that i have already tried MANY times. And then when I say so, they say "well you didn't try hard enough did you?". I get that from everywhere. I hate this life, I hate the human race, I hate health professionals that dick me around, i hate every medication on the market that has failed (all of them), I hate everyone who has told me "get counselling", if I had the guts I would walk in front of a bus right this minute. I should have done it years ago.

I GIVE UP!

And no i am not going to kill myself because I don't have the balls for that.

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Guest ASchwartz

I don't know if you will read this because you said that you are not coming back but I am sorry to hear that you are giving up on us. You seem to believe that we experience you as complaining or some variation thereof. Perhaps it's the advice that is annoying. It's true that it's a lot easier to hear people be empathetic than listen to advice. Anyway, if you don't come back, good luck to you.

Allan

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Hi Sardonyx,

I'm sorry you are so frustrated. I personally do not think any of those things you think others are thinking of you. Anhedonia/Apathy - whatever you want to call it - sucks bigtime. And drains every ounce of motivation you have to do anything. I get that. And I get that the fact you try so hard makes it worse because of the disappointment factor. I've experienced all these things personally, although to a lesser degree than you. That's one of the things I frequently discuss in therapy. I still haven't solved it either.

Sorry I couldn't be of more help. I wish you the best and hope you can find a solution to this debilitating condition.

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