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Darkness,

I don't honestly care who or what you believe in. You're entitled.

But I'm afraid I had to remove the other thread. This forum is not about describing in detail desires to hurt other people.

As for "emotional strength", I'm not sure what you mean. Could you describe what situations you feel you need more strength for?

What I would suggest for a definition of "mental health" would be the ability to deal one's with interactions with the world, particularly other people, in a successful and mutually beneficial way.

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Guest GingerSnap

Not a fan of Satan myself, I do not see how you could separate emotional health from spirituality. I think you would need to clarify what you are asking. I draw on my spirituality for my emotional health, mental health and physical health. Is there something that you feel that your spirituality is directing you to move toward but that your emotions is keeping you from doing? Just not sure what you are asking. Mental, physical and emotional health all hold hands to keep you "together" or at least that is what I see.

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Darkness,

I don't honestly care who or what you believe in. You're entitled.

But I'm afraid I had to remove the other thread. This forum is not about describing in detail desires to hurt other people.

As for "emotional strength", I'm not sure what you mean. Could you describe what situations you feel you need more strength for?

What I would suggest for a definition of "mental health" would be the ability to deal one's with interactions with the world, particularly other people, in a successful and mutually beneficial way.

Why mention the other topic here instead of sending me a message? These two topics have little in common. Unless you are implying that my religion has something to do with a desire to "harm others", which is absurd; I made clear that I had those desires even as a Christian and only when I became a Satanist could i not feel ashamed and finnally be able to deal with my anger in a healthy way. when the thoughts were forbidden, it only locked them away. Now, I can face them and solve them. Ignoring them wasn't the answer, and Satanism showed me that.

Actually, you know what, I'll cut to the chase: I think you are only saying that you don't care my religion and that I am entitled because you have pre-concieved notions about what Satanism is, and I think you didn't read all the long 'fine print' in the ramblings stating that what Satanism isn't about wanting to hurt others, but that I was only using my religion as a tool to PURGE myself from so much negative energy I have had for years.

You didn't have to delete ALL of it, infact I am going to repost parts of it because there is a lot in there that I need to talk about. I have no phone out here so i can't call the suicide hotline, I am actually riding off someone's wifi hundreds of feet from my house, and I do not even have enough money for food or medician. If you felt that some parts were inappropriate for the site, then you should of taken it up in a message and not here. Now more pre-convieved notions about satanism will start cropping up, and everyone will start thinking I am sacrificing virgins (which no satanist does, by the way).

So I'll take out the parts about 'desiring to hurt people' and guess i won't get the acutal help I want, and only get part of it. I NEEDED to share all those details so that SOMEONE might be able to spot the root of it all deep down in there. With generalizations and simplifications that is not possible, that is why I went into detail, but if it is too scary for grown adults on the internet, then i do not know what to say; this is a site for mentally ill people. What is going to happen? I am going to offend someone who was raped and killed? Oh wait, they are dead, guess they will be SO pissed off on the other side, being dead and all. I don't have anywhere else to turn to.

---

As far as spiritual and emotional strength, there is a distinction. Spiritual energies are more primal, they are more about a more philosophical feeling, and a sense of.. shall we say perspective and understanding?

Emotional health is a more... less primal and more human thing. It is based on our experiences and brain patterns, as well as our place according to our perception, it is highly subjective. Spiritual health is more objective and independent; the others do not effect it, but it can effect the others.

But mental health is different from emotional health, but where is the distinction?

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I mentioned the other thread because I thought you ought to know, that's all. I'm not interested in implying; I have too much trouble getting people to understand me when I'm direct. :-)

As far as I'm concerned, however you structure your life is fine with me, as long as you can be mentally healthy, and treat others with the same respect you hope for from them. The other posts suggested that you might not, so I had to say something. It's kinda my job here.

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Guest GingerSnap

My gosh, if you are having trouble affording food, medication, etc. have you contacted social services? You can do that in most states over the internet. There is no shame in asking for help when you need it as the majority of people want people in need to have it available to them. And, with Malign, he will not be judging you based on your beliefs or lack of them as he just is not that kind of person and I have been here awhile at the forum. I actually saw a small clip on the premise of Satanism and was surprised at what they believed and how they got rid of some of the negative energy they felt, in a way that did not harm anyone. If you are feeling negative energy toward someone or a group or hopefully not yourself, it might be useful to define the problem since working in generalities is pretty tough. I am not familiar with what you posted in the past. Not everyone here is mentally ill and many have sensitivities that need to be respected. I do believe that Satanism does extend being thoughtful of others? And, really, please consider looking for assistance for meeting your daily needs and I know in our state that can be done online.

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i wasnt trying to offend anyone really, i just.. hey the moon is orange! sorry i get internet outside and an orange thing came behind the clouds.

The site makes it a bit fuzzy whre the line is drawn sometimes. it depends on what sect of satanism for your question though. A ley Vay from a bit i read from teh satanic bible says they should if THEY are on your site (or dwelling), but not required if YOU are on their site (or dwelling). otherr branches, i dont know. in mine, it does extend to it.

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Guest GingerSnap

Darkness: I'm just a mom of two adult boys and a grandma so, really, I probably can't provide you with much help/advice. I did wonder though about you not being able to afford medication because I do know that if you need medications for either mental and/or physical health that you can get in a bad situation. I do hope that you seek help from social services. I actually saw the clip on Satanism on a History Channel DVD we have, something like "God vs. Satan" and it touched on just a wide range of things. It was, I think, fair to both sides. I am not a Christian but a devout follower of God and that probably gets me more "heat" than you following Satanism, trust me on that so I don't try to convert anyone. Do you have family anywhere? Yeah, sometimes that is not that useful, I know.

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  • 2 months later...

oh my bad.

sorry i didnt mean for it be hate speech. i was trying to get help. i feel more and more hate against the christians daily

they keep throwing the bible at me qouting it like its going to convince me of anything. also my personal beliefs are currently under a massive and fast paced evolutionary path the last few days.

i dont hate CHRISTIANS, I hate CHRISTIANITY, though i may of articulated it wrong.

i thought other people may of helped to center me, i feel really energy filled recently and i may just be over reacting to some stuff in real life i dont know, i just wanted to convey what i was feeling and thinking unfiltered. im sorry

edit: this is how im acting other places on the net:

"we dont sacrifice animals you ignorant fuck

the Torah is the book that COMMANDS people to kill animals or otherwise be in Yahweh's wrath.

And the Chrisitans' entire faith is BASED on a human sacrifice of THEIR OWN GOD

Who is the propagator of blood rituals now?"

im really on edge as you can see

Edited by Darkness
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i have no idea dude.

one of my satanist buddies just told me i need to slow down.. that a few months isnt enough to digest a new religion.

i told him right now in my life im at a moment of great change, and that i need to do this at my own pacing and not his

though i fear he might be right; i could burn myself out fast this way.

beign an ex-fundie is hard. it was a year ago i left it but hell. as one page by one of my sources said (http://theisticsatanism.com/CoEvan/FAQ.html#fundy) that being near or in the Bible Belt and opening being an athiest or Satanist or Wiccan or whatever takes a lot of courage and that we have to actually think more than most people to reverse the brain washing. It's true. I do not know where you live, but if you do not live in the Bible Belt then you probably have not had to think as hard to figure out what is true for yourself.

I don't feel 'persecuted' per say, I am sick of people treating me like my soul is lost and it is there job to bring me back to the light. and im angry with all the brain washing, the hate, and hypocrisy they spew.

thats where all that came from. many people have said i bring it on myself for identifying myself as such but i have a right to express what i believe without being proselytized.

im kind of mad at different groups, christians and the church of satan. they are trying to force their dying manoploy on everyone, deny the rise of theistic satanism, and other things.

like they had a member who was attacked. the police said it was a hate crime against him because he was a satanist. he didnt fight back. you would think the CoS would scold him for 'turning the other cheek' and not defending himself, but no. They scolded him for making the church look bad by being a victim. the CoS thinks that any recognition as a minority is falling into a victim complex, curtosy of the High Priest Peter H. Gilmore.

So two groups im mad at; the church of satan for being dicks to all other satanic groups, and Christianity. the CoS has been slowly losing its grip on the Satanic scene since teh Temple of Set renounced being a Satanic group. For a short time the CoS then dominated, but in the last 5-10 years Theistic Satanism has boomed again thanks to the internet. we arnt as organized though, being more geographically diverse

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I know of what you speak. I found for every religion there is their own form of logic.

Martin Luther, the father of Protestantism said "Reason is the enemy of faith" though he may of said it ironically because he fought corruption in the Catholic Church and used reason to realize they were as such.

Strangely its turned around and the Protestants are the more corrupt ones. Catholics by far actually do not try to force people into conversion and keep to themselves mostly now. I've heard that only the most conservative Catholics are actually bad in the way a lot of Protestantism is.. Actually some of my favorite people in life have been Catholics. Their history is bloody but it seems today they mostly made a turn around.

though this is what I ran into recently, from a girl i never met before on facebook. i guess she is a friend of a friend on facebook. i almost only ever include people i know in real life. This is the kind of annoying things that make me hate Christianity (hardcore Christianity anyway)

girl I never met. yesterday:

Isaiah 1:2 (NIV) Hear, O heavens! Listen, O earth! For the Lord has spoken: "I reared children and brought them up, but they have rebelled against me."

1 Samuel 15:23 (NAS) "For rebellion is as the sin of divination, and insubordination is as iniquity and idolatry..."

John 8:44-45 (NIV) "You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire... When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me!"

You need real help man!

me having a bad day as it was, yesterday:

get the fuck out of my face now and stop the proselytising. It is unwanted. The idea that Satan is a lier is a little something called "character inversion". A wonderful excuse crafted in a time when estoric and scientifc advancement was seen as evil.

Ave Satana, Dark Blessings befall me. Your god has no hold over me anymore.

you should now i have been in the presence of Satan before. that is somethign your god has never done for me, personally come down in a time of need. Satan came running, and he can only be in one place at once.

I guess i see who i matter to more

the girl again, today:

God cares about everyone! Satan is just here to steal, kill, and destroy and thats all! he dosent care about anyone, all he cares about uis himself. But guess what! iv'e been in the presence of God! whats that tell you? i guess when this old, world ends we will see where you'll end up.
"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16

me, burning her terribly, today:

wait, you say that i will get my due and punishment by saying:

"i guess when this old, world ends we will see where you'll end up."

Then you give me a verse about how God loves me? Such hypocrisy. How can you claim to be about love but then turn and do the complete opposite, hate?

Your only hurting your wittness and defeating your purpose of enslaving people to your God. It's quite funny yet sad at the same time.

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ironically this was one of my points.

people of other faiths do not get others often.

the reason you do not understand either side is because the way we think is so different. its as if it had its own logic.

shes saying that since the Bible says so, i am going to hell with Satan because i reject the Bible and God.

my argument is that she is a moron and hypocrite, and that in my short time with Satan he has at least seemingly done more for me than god ever did.

come back and read it in a bit. if it doesnt make sense then that only proves my point that certain religions have their own form of "logic". i understood perfectly what she was saying [i used to believe it], though for some far away from religious upbringing it may sound like complete nonsense.

what she is saying makes sense to me[meaning i understand her view], but i still know that it's complete BS.

edit: i will say though that to walk away is hard when they approach me. in their minds me walking away at the first word makes me seen like i am unsure of myself. if i argue until they leave it makes me seem sure of myself, though it can also make me look like a loon. with this one ill just tell her to go away after the next message.

Edited by Darkness
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In general, I don't care what other people choose to believe. I am only bothered if they try to force their beliefs on me or if they use these beliefs to make policies or rules that are not compatible with my lack of beliefs. (Requiring that schools teach creationism in a science class, for example. Or making laws based on a morality taken from religion instead of taken from the best interests of society (gay marriage comes to mind)

I agree. But that's the problem. There is nothing respectful about "forcing beliefs" It actually makes me sad when people are so closed minded that they can't even listen to voices that differ from theirs. It leave no room for growth or diversity.

As far as taking stances based on morality. I have a hard time with that as well. Who's morality are we talking about? Even in the bible, if read in the correct context and analyzing that the translation was even done correctly, I don't believe it condemn's what people like to say it does. And if people want to play that game and quote out of context. What's with only using the things that they personally think is immoral. Why the double standard? Jesus doesn't even talk about homosexuality. He does condemn bankers though. I don't see laws trying to close banks and making loans illegal. It's all so hippocritical.

Again, it's the people who use it as a mechanism and excuse to hate and paractice intollerance and bigotry.

It's a hard issue for me that goes well beyond religion. I believe strongly in social justice. (probably the social worker in me) People use many things to keep others down. Religion is one. There's also politics, greed, racism etc etc But I think the bottom line is that it is actually none of those things. It's ignorance and fear. People fear things that they don't know about. People fear things they don't understand. People fear things that are different or out of their comfort zone.

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but I have a hard time taking sides in such a debate because to me it reads like two people arguing about the color of the invisible gnome they just imagined in their heads.

I really hope you do not mean that.

What you have to understand about religion is that contrary to what people tell you, it is a completely subjective thing. Is there a cosmic god? I think so, but I can't prove it based on currently known methods.

You see, atheism is what they call a pragmatic assumption. It is a an assumption that will benefit people even if it turns out to be true. So with atheists in the world we will know that at least someone will never take a "divine" answer and will search for the actual truth objectively. I can completely understand why people are atheists.

However it completely puzzles me how atheists in general can be so sure of themselves. If they never doubt the absence of a cosmic god or gods, how can they know it is true?

It baffles me that one would not at least entertain the idea of a god and consider what that would actually change in the Universe as opposed to a Universe with no god. The way I always saw it "god" and "supernatural" are only convenient words for things that man does not understand yet. Will we ever understand it? maybe, at least I hope so. I suspect though that the gods or whatever will turn out to be powerful, yet mundane entities. I do not believe in a boarder between the supernatural and the natural.

As for Danni... I would agree with most of what you said but it is kind of hard for Satanic things to be taken out of context. If a Satanist doesn't like something he typically just makes his own ideas and morality and ethics. The only case I can think that what you said is true is with The Church of Satan and the LaVeyan Satanic Bible. It's just about the only branch out there with a dogma, and even at that LaVey was really explicit in all that he said. Satanists will just go ahead and craft their religon however. the individualism inherent in Satanism makes taking things out of context a redundant thing at best. They just do what they feel is right with no exterior justification.

I'm not saying we can't be closed minded, far from it. There are a few almost facist like branches, but by far my experience with other theistic satanists have been people of open minds. Left Hand Religions you will find operate in a very different way then Right Hand Path Religions. We do not need to take things out of context if we can make our own thing or idea. Typically sources are seen as fail-able things that give good insight, not divine law.

Again, pseudome; just imagine it as a fictional argument between two characters fictitious faiths if it makes it easier. Like a Jedi and a Sith arguing in Star Wars.

If you are able to suspend your disbelief consciously for a short time and just run with the base assumptions, then it does make it easier to understand the other views. The problem with atheism is that it is scientifically impossible to prove a universal negative. Meaning that the hypothesis of the existence of a cosmic god is always a possibility. The only way to DISPROVE the existence of gods is to know everything.

Thankfully, one day we should learn the actually named "Theory of Everything" Physicists are working on it as we speak actually.

Just never underestimate the subjective power of religion.

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ironically this was one of my points.

people of other faiths do not get others often.

the reason you do not understand either side is because the way we think is so different. its as if it had its own logic.

shes saying that since the Bible says so, i am going to hell with Satan because i reject the Bible and God.

Exactly. You are in disagreement because you are coming from different sets of preconceived notions. What is self evident to you, for example that the left hand path is more rewarding, is self evidently false to her, since John 8:44 says Satan is the father of lies.

I'd be very surprised if either of you managed to convince the other under such circumstances. Unless you disagree, what are getting out of arguing with her? You've called her out on hypocrisy, but so what? She's not going to change her ways because someone she disagrees with vehemently thinks she is a hypocrite. She probably thinks you are a hypocrite because you and she have very differing views of who Satan is.

In her mind "serving Satan" might mean eating babies or whatnot - and that is most likely the type of thing she's afraid of. She doesn't want you to burn in hell eternally because the father of lies made you harvest the skins of innocent children on which to print spellbooks. Since it is not a reality based fear though, I wonder why continue an argument without first establishing a common understanding of the definitions of the terms you are both using.

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I

Thankfully, one day we should learn the actually named "Theory of Everything" Physicists are working on it as we speak actually.

Just never underestimate the subjective power of religion.

Have you ever noticed that as soon as we get closer to understanding something "fundamental" about the universe, it expands beneath our noses? First atoms were supposed to be the fundamental unit of matter, no wait, protons and electrons, that's it. What's that thing? I dunno, we'll call it a "quark." Same effect if you to the macro end and try to find the edge of the universe. It simply keeps expanding the better you get at perceiving it.

Douglas Adams probably understood this while writing the Hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy:

There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable.

There is another theory which states that this has already happened

I fear the discovery of a theory of everything. It means the end of the world and a more confusing one to replace it.:eek:

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