A really beautiful and serious thing

[JulianP]

............deleted

Edited February 4, 2010 by JulianP

[Ray Smith]

Hi Ray,

and welcome to our forum. I do not understand why you cannot post over on the the "comments" part of the website in reaction to "is AA a cult." Is it a tech problem???

I did believe it was a tech problem, but seeing that I am still unable to post to your articles, I've begun to wonder. Have you blocked me Allan?

Edited July 11, 2009 by Ray Smith

[Ray Smith]

I have said other times, that I have visited AA meetings and in other countries as well as here and the people were very pro AA.

From my point of view, there seems to be a gap between what is appearing on the Internet and what is going on "out there in the world" with regard to AA.

I would like to hear your responses, all of you, but, I really want a respectful discussion and without the bitterness and acusations that seem to characterize some of these interchanges of views.

Allan

It's difficult to respond when you charge anyone who disagrees as angry and bitter, but I'll try once again.

You're not likely to find people who object to AA inside of meetings, this is what's known as "observational selection"; you fail to take into account how many people dropped out while only counting those who stayed.

According to AA's Triennial Surveys, 95% of new members drop out within their first year. That's a lot more ex-members than members; you're surprised that some are very unhappy EX-members? Outside of the rooms, you're likely to hear from them.

[Ray Smith]

I might add, if someone in real life told you of their objections and received a reply like many of the replies we AA critical folks have, they wouldn't be likely to bring it up again.

[Guest ASchwartz]

Hi Ray,

The only people I charge with being "bitter and angry" are those few who did respond in very insulting ways to what I wrote. One person had the nastiness, without even knowing me, to state that I am a therapist who he would never want to see and questioned my abilities. Please understand, I do not care, but that is one example and you can find that person if you go through all the comments in that section of the site: an effort not worth the time or effort. And that was just one. There have been others. That is why I appeal to people to discuss this in civil types of ways.

Ray, also please understand that I do not dismiss the complaints about AA. In fact I take them very seriously. I also am keenly aware of the fact that people are being told by court room Judges to go to AA, a big mistake, in my view.

Have you read the article I posted about Phoenix Multi Sport, here in Boulder Colorado? Its on the first page of our web site, although, you need to scroll down a little. I am interested in what you and others have to say about it.

Allan:)

[Ray Smith]

Here what I wrote on the other thread:

I'm sure that 12step facilitation plus excercise is better than plain ol' 12step facilitation, but is that really saying a whole lot?

To me it's like slapping a new coat of paint on a house that's termite infested. Looks pretty enough, but is it doing anything about the basic problems?

The people who do best in recovery, by whatever methods are those that have reasons to recover, professionals who have jobs to return to, people with supportive spouses, kids, people who hadn't "hit bottom" and lost everything. And here, people who prided themselves on fitness returning to that community.

That's why I like Motivational Interviewing, helping folks find their motivation to quit, but without "ego-deflation", "powerlessness", and mixing religion and recovery.

I've seen relapes cause a crisis of faith in people without mental health diagnoses. Faith can be A tool, it shouldn't be THE tool.