IrmaJean Posted August 21, 2012 Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 Dear Jai, I know it is your choice, but I hope you will reconsider. There is brightness and light in you. I see it. I've always seen it. One day you will see it and feel it too.I like the idea of our community being kind of like a family. We're all different and that's a beautiful thing. We care about one another through both the struggles and the gains. Sometimes we make mistakes...all of us do (me too)...and we know that won't change the care. It's times like these, when a member is struggling, that we gather around and support that person.My hand is always reaching out to you if you're willing to take it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaiJai Posted August 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 ,........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrmaJean Posted August 21, 2012 Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 Choices are always yours to make. I respect your decisions. I agree it would be better to get help in a face to face situation with a qualified professional, like you're doing in therapy. I know I'm not there with you, Jai, but I promise my care is real."Everything separate" hurts, though, doesn't it? The way you've learned to behave and respond has to do with coping and survival. Behaviors don't make you who you are.You don't see any light? What about the part of you who cares for others? Humor. Insight. Intelligence. Spunk. There are vulnerabilities and places that hurt. We all have them. We all have things to work on. None of us are perfect.I'm sorry you hurt, Jai. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaiJai Posted August 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 therapy. i think therapy makes my behaviour worse.i dont care for others. i use them.everything seperate has been more managable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devils daughter Posted August 21, 2012 Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 therapy. i think therapy makes my behaviour worse.I think there's some merit to this, which the profession has yet to address. However, there's not another option that I know of. Would you be interested in my take on that? Here's a "fuck you" attitude toward the profession: the more of us who can get well, the more of us who can tell you -- and may be be convincing -- how you fucked us over and added to the mess.But on the positive, productive side of that attitude, they really do need us to tell them how they've failed us in the past, but they're not going to listen until we get better! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrmaJean Posted August 21, 2012 Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 Jai, gaining benefit from therapy can take some time. It's also possible that your increased behavior isn't about the therapy itself, but rather your resistance to it.I've seen you reach out to friends and members who are hurting...myself included. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devils daughter Posted August 21, 2012 Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 It's also possible that your increased behavior isn't about the therapy itself, but rather your resistance to it.Maybe we want to take this to another thread but I maintain that if therapy tends to evoke old wounds in order to heal them, and the psyche (including conditioned, non-conscious, automatic reactions) tends to try to protect itself, leading to the very behaviors that are, on the outside at least, problematic -- well, THERAPY needs to recognizie that's going to happen take some responsibility for it. Because the client has cut-off, suppressed, whatever you call it -- made the underlying wounds non-conscious and the responses are therefore NOT under the patient's conscious control -- which is the very problem therapy is trying to correct!!!Logic, here, people -- it has some function, too! Which the therapy world is currently ignoring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaiJai Posted August 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 ????????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrmaJean Posted August 21, 2012 Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 Jai.... Is it possible the alternative is too frightening? What happens when you do consider your own light or the possibilty of accepting the care of others? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaiJai Posted August 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 i dont know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrmaJean Posted August 21, 2012 Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 Vulnerability can be frightening, this is true. I have always felt there is something beautiful about it too. But of course that is easier for me to see in others than to accept in myself. I'm still working on that. Truth is, we all have weaknesses and fragile places. None of us are infallible. We all have needs. It's okay to have needs. It's okay to accept support when you need it. That's something we can do for one another. Do you think maybe you could let a little light in? I like seeing you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devils daughter Posted August 21, 2012 Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 Jai -- I really do understand about the autopilot, I think. I deleted my previous remark about the logic system not caring because I realized that may not be all of it.Hang in there? Dburney has some good remarks on . . . oh, what is it. . . just look for firebolt's thread under Urgent.I probably need to go . . . to take care of some things here. . .hang in there. . .you'll be OK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malign Posted August 21, 2012 Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 I totally understand the need to protect yourself, Jai; safety is a basic human need.But see, that's where a protector part that rejects "neediness" trips itself up. Its entire purpose is to satisfy a need, just a different one.Too, if you examine its methods, despite telling yourself that you want to be "incapable of feeling", the protector really only wants to be devoid of "weak" feelings. Vicious self-hating feelings are okay, maybe even the stronger the better. Yet those feelings weaken you too, you know. Not that I'm advocating a Spock-like detachment; I'm just pointing out that self-hate isn't the only way to become numb.The same sort of thought pattern is at work in the "not wanting to rely on others" aspect, as well. In fact, you'd be safest if you stayed home by yourself. You end up, though, "relying" on guys you meet at random; in the end, you're just as needy and dependent on them as you ever might become otherwise.I don't want to break down your defenses. I know how important, and perhaps how fragile, safety is, to you.Just ... maybe there are other ways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaiJai Posted August 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 yup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devils daughter Posted August 22, 2012 Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 To be needy means that I am at risk of being slapped.To be needy means that I’d better be satisfied with what I get, even if it’s not what I really need or want, or I’ll get nothing, I won’t survive.To be needy is scary.To be scared is not knowing if I have what it takes to get through the next few moments.Who wouldn’t want other emotions instead of need and fear?Going back to the point that you do care, usually, and then something sets you off – you don’t know what. The fact that you don’t know what it is – is it like an on/off switch? Mine was. All of a sudden this other . . . well, this other “me” appeared and . . .well, yelled at my daughter and stuff. . . In total I may not have been the most horrible person in the world, but certainly not so great, either.We are responsible . . . and yet . . .People in my support group have been there for me. I want to pay it forward. It actually feels good when you feel the desperation of need and support group people are there for you. Eventually you can get to be able to do it for yourself. It just takes some time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaiJai Posted August 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 i shouldnt need defenses. and i shouldnt need people to be concerned they are breaking down the ones i have. by all means - break away! i do not need friends. i just need truth. tcvqyfeckdh, horpTornInozy and Augmerbbuby 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finding my way Posted August 22, 2012 Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 Only you can know what is true for you, JaiJai.If you are looking for a diagnosis, we aren't qualified.Interestingly, you can find what you are looking for in relationships, though. One of the missions of this site.Psychology offers us many tools. It might be up to each individual to discover them? We can hear about their existence from others though...I was diagnosed with an attachment disorder. Because attachments didn't go well in childhood, I really struggled with them in adulthood. I went through several therapists and had to learn a lot of stuff (both on my own and with help), but in the end I was able to be helped by it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaiJai Posted August 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 i didnt mention anything about diagnosing. Simply observations of my behaviour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finding my way Posted August 22, 2012 Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 I am glad you see that our observations are subjective-- from our point of view, mixed up with our own stuff. Initially it looked like you were seeking an objective evaluation, something only standardized testing or clinical observation could approximate, as when a professional tests for a diagnosis.I experience you as someone in deep pain, JaiJai. The dissociative behavior is a way to avoid the part of you that is carrying the pain. I don't know if it's true for you, but I imagine you have a very strong attachment to the man who abused you at 5, and the trauma of all that confusion drove a deep dividing wedge between you and you. A young child is too young to reason, and primitive forces can take over. It seems the adult you rips with those primitive forces, using them to defend, attack, numb, and at all costs continue the divide in you, to stay in power. Yet she is recently using the elemental forces to connect to people here. And that might be ramping up her fright, because connecting with people and relating may work at healing your divide.Jai, I am so very sorry for your struggles Many here can relate to this extreme struggle between self and self. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaiJai Posted August 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 although this is your interpretation of my behaviour, rather than what you have observed of my behaviour, i appreciate your input. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malign Posted August 22, 2012 Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 Well, just pointing out that your entire "this is what I have so far" list contains interpretations.i do not need friends. i just need truth.And what if "friends" is my "truth"?You don't want us to sugarcoat things, and if you taste even the slightest amount of sugar, you'll reject it (that's what it sounds like to me, not an observation, just my understanding of what you said.) You don't want to receive "any" input on your positive qualities, even if that really is what we "perceive" (=observe). How is this process going to achieve objectivity again?Personally, I believe that you aren't really equipped to deal with the truth, at the moment: the truth is generally gray, and you want only black.You're doing fine with the black parts of truth, but there are white parts to it as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finding my way Posted August 22, 2012 Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 making connections, linking meanings, gaining understanding... that stuff happens on the inside and requires us to experience more of our totality (rather than just one part, such as a protector part or a wounded part)and we may not be hearing you all the way, Jai, but we are listening... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrmaJean Posted August 22, 2012 Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 Jai, it would be very difficult for me to reply in the way that you requested. To do so would be for me to deny myself and I'm not sure if I am even capable of doing that. I also sense deep pain and inner turmoil. This evokes strong feelings of compassion in me. I don't know if this is helpful to know. I am in your corner, I am listening, and wish to support you in any way that I can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaiJai Posted August 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 fair enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malign Posted August 22, 2012 Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 It wasn't really intended as an argument ...The "equipment" that's missing might be as simple as a choice to try.You ask why would I "waste my time", but you've forbidden me to answer, because I'm only allowed to list your problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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