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Anyone actually dating women here? Any success? Failure?Tips?


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As the title suggests, I was curious as to whether anyone has decided to join the real world and date women, and--if yes--how's it going?

Yeah, I've noticed that there's a couple of people here whom try to stay positive and upbeat about this issue, always opposing negativity and minimizing the issues we face.. So, uh, hows that working out for ya in practice? Pulling any chicks? Got laid lately? Post your progress and stories here.

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Yeah, I've noticed that there's a couple of people here whom try to stay positive and upbeat about this issue, always opposing negativity and minimizing the issues we face..

Is it possible that you've made a leap with your thoughts here? If someone is positive and upbeat, does that then mean they are attempting to minimize your feelings? Sometimes if thoughts have been occurring for a very long time they become deeply ingrained, and it can be distressful to disturb the familiarity of them. There are different ways to look at things. Shaking things up some can lead to positive change if there is an openness to it. This knowledge doesn't mean you hurt any less or that your experience is not painful to you. I understand and respect that it is. I feel it is very important to recognize, respect, and be sensitive to feelings. Maybe, though, questioning your thoughts can lead to something positive. I hope you can give the idea a chance in your mind.

Take care.

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Hi Erma. Perhaps I worded it wrong. Lol, but anyways, while some do attempt to minimize our troubles (and some are in plain denial), I've started this thread as a place to share our struggles with dating, to give updates on how it's working out, to discuss progress, etc.

And yeah I guess you could say that I've made a "leap with my thoughts". Several days ago, while in meditation, it occurred to me that most of my worries are stupid, lol. I'm sick of suffering unneccessarily and have decided to try to make the best of it. Alot of my troubles come from obcessing about how crappy my life has been and how crappy it will probaly be, so I'm simply gonna utilize those skills that I've gained from my zen training and focus on staying in the present and accepting whatever comes without worrying about it--gonna do my best and, for better or worse, leave the result to the universe. Somehow or another I had allowed myself to get sucked into a cycle of stinking-thinking, I was on auto-pilot, but I'm coming out of it.

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According to "Psychology Today" women with high self esteem place more importance on size than other women.

So thats a tip from the professionals I guess.

From me personally, avoid women who talk about sex a lot in company- over the years I've thought they seem to be pretty obsessed with size

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I'm presently dating women and have been since six months after my divorce.

I have applied some of the gaming methods my ex wife used on me in order to ferret out

women's intentions when it comes to intimacy.

I will ask a lady out on a date, and if I find that she and I can be compatible mentally, I'll ask her out

again. I go slow and let it fall on her to make the move. If she does, and the encounter is what I consider to be a good one, we date for a while longer.

The only information I will give her is that I am not married, and not really interested in being so.

There have been a couple of gals that I didn't feel their efforts were worth my attention and I ended the "relationship" as amicably as possible.

The others either were suited by my attention or didn't wish mention anything negative about it.

I don't know if a guy could use this method in the hopes of finding a partner for "life", but since that isn't my goal, it isn't important to me, personnaly.

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Well, guys, I rolled the dice and scored with the craigslist chick......and it was horrible. It provided further confirmation that no amount of positive thinking will change the fact that some of us are in-capable of having satisfying sexual encounters (depending on what your definition of "satisfying" is, of course) . Yeah, It was the whole "hot-dog down the hall-way" thing again, like every other experience that I've had. Me, I'm through until the surgery happens--I need some girth, there's no way around it (or I need to move to South Korea or something, lol, but I can't because of my record). Sure, I might try something else with this craigslist chick since the deed has already been done, but there's NO way I'd attempt to bounce around like other normal guys! Very, very sad....

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That sucks dude, but it's her end as well. With 4 inches girth, a snug fit should exist. I still believe it and your length is more than adequate. I say give it another go, she could potentially tighten up and accommodate your size better. You are an adult though so if you feel surgery is your only option, go for it. However, bare in mind that there are plenty of people with 4 inches of girth that are enjoying sex and not experiencing the 'hot dog in the hallway' effect. So i still feel that there are other options, and I'd say give it a few more tries with this chick. However, you are entitled to get surgery, but consider the fact that it ultimately may not make a difference. If you are 4 inches in girth, I can't imagine the surgery making your girth significantly better. It will be a lot of hard earned cash for a lot of pain, discomfort, and quite possibly no change in your life.

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That sucks dude, but it's her end as well. With 4 inches girth, a snug fit should exist. I still believe it and your length is more than adequate. I say give it another go, she could potentially tighten up and accommodate your size better. You are an adult though so if you feel surgery is your only option, go for it. However, bare in mind that there are plenty of people with 4 inches of girth that are enjoying sex and not experiencing the 'hot dog in the hallway' effect. So i still feel that there are other options, and I'd say give it a few more tries with this chick. However, you are entitled to get surgery, but consider the fact that it ultimately may not make a difference. If you are 4 inches in girth, I can't imagine the surgery making your girth significantly better. It will be a lot of hard earned cash for a lot of pain, discomfort, and quite possibly no change in your life.

While I appreciate the positive feed-back, there's a re-occurring theme here that can't be denied---from the teeny boppers to my ex-girl to the prostitutes to this craigslist chick, it's been the hot-dog down the hall-way effect everytime. While this particular encounter hasn't made me overly-depressed again (yet?), this girth thing is an actual problem bro---4" girth is un-doubtedly NOT average.

However, with a skilled surgeon and the right procedure, one can expect a 3/4 to 1 inch increase in circumfrence --which would put me in the average zone and increase friction..... thereby making my life a whole lot better. Yeah dude, don't believe all the surgery haters. And besides, I don't see myself as having anything to lose. I'd rather try then not try at all. We'll see what happens within the next 4-5 months. If my probation isn't revoked anytime soon (lol), the surgery is probaly going to happen and you guys will get the scoop play by play first-hand---whether it fails or not.

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I only hate the surgery because I have researched it.

If the outcome was good I would have had it.

But NO increase in erect length.

Temporary and lumpy increase in erect girth.

The fat shifts on penetration and bunches up at the groin not really improving fullness for the girl

Highly expensive

Risk of shortening

Massive risk of infection with no come back due to disclaimer you sign

Not much to recommend it is there?

4 inches is way too slim for 99% of women sure but at least it's functional.

If you have found a girl willing to overlook satisfying intercourse then try and make a go of it.

Maybe mutual oral? Use of dildos and vibrators as lily suggested? Kegals? Ribbed condoms?

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Yeah, the lumping deal doesn't come with the procedure that i'm getting..and, for the record, sometimes the outcome is good (a fact)...and I guess the difference between myself and some of the naysayers is that, simply put, I'm not scared, I really don't care-- if it's an epic fail then fk it, who cares? What's lost? And while I'd like more length, I'm not really concerned about it anymore , believe it or not. I could live with my length if my girth was okay--- I've discovered that there's alot more guys my size than I had previously realized (5 1/2" -6").

The surgeon I'm considering (a guy whom has made phalloplasty his primary speciality and has performed several hundred** of them) has a pretty good rep and,--should complications arise there-after--he provides corrective surgery for free (however, in some cases, the patient may have to pay for the anathesia, etc)

But anyways, yeah, you can list the potential hazards of anything and make it un-desirable. For example, I could list hundreds of reasons not to drive or go out-side.

**correction: several thousand

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As a 'quiet' member I felt the need to reply to Jesse. 100% agree with you about the surgery and PM'd TH and told him so. I have

HAD the only surgery available and there has been no discernible difference despite my initial hopes of the POSSIBLE 30% gain in length. FACT. My surgeon also explained in detail the process of fat grafting, whether it is by injection or transdermal fat grafting the result will ALWAYS remain the same. I.E According to him, to date, no surgery involving fat has been found to be long-lasting. The fat ALWAYS gets broken down and MOVES, ALWAYS! Like you said Jesse, at best you will have a lumpy dick for around 6 mths before the fat disperses in the body. This surgeon even went as far as explaining to me the procedure of a prosthetic dick which, if I'd wanted, I could have went for!! Thoroughlyunhappy, I'm no surgery 'hater' proven by the fact that I've had it and am wondering where have you read that fat grafts stay in place PERMANENTLY? If not permanent, what's the point? Here in the U.K a highly respected plastic surgeon (Brent Tanner) used to perform these operations years ago but has now done a complete reversal solely because he now has longitudinal data from ex-patients and ALL had the same experience with fat grafting, as I've said no long-term success. Luckily, I live in britain and qualified for these surgeries on the NHS however if it was to be financed by myself directly and I knew what I know now, I'd use that money to travel, see/experience as much as I could and have as much fun (inc sexually) as I possibly could until the money ran out! If that were impossible for whatever reason I'd opt for a camper van and hit the road indefinately. Simple as that!lol For anyone wondering, I'm a non-commentator because for the main part my story is the same as all of you, in MOST ways anyhow. I think all that I can add, I have just done. I.E My view AFTER surgery. I felt the same as you TH, what's to lose?? Well, as I wrote you, the opportunity to use that finance to have GUARANTEED fun and once in a life-time experiences. Amazing memories to relish during the times when you can't 'get there' in meditation, which I also practice. As the cliche goes, 'hindsight is 20/20' and I believe that wholeheartedly, 4 years post-surgery! All the best to you though, 'nuff said, JUST SAYING!lol Be lucky guys :-)

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As a 'quiet' member I felt the need to reply to Jesse. 100% agree with you about the surgery and PM'd TH and told him so. I have

HAD the only surgery available and there has been no discernible difference despite my initial hopes of the POSSIBLE 30% gain in length.

Hi Tantalus, thanks for sharing your experience, I appreciate it. Btw, you havn't had the "only" surgery available. I would never, ever consider having the FFT procedure (lumps and fast re-absorption)...and I would especially avoid the "Elist Implant"--great gains but waaaaaay too many complications and horror stories there...and I'm not interested in the Belladerm/Alloderm procedures either. No, I'm going for the PMMA injections. While we still don't know if there''ll be complications 10-20 years down the road with this, the short term results have been very good and it looks promising. As I've pointed out, results vary and depend on the procedure and surgeon--and a little luck, I guess . However, for sure, phalloplasty is still in it's experimental phase and any procedure that involves surgically altering your penis is a dice-roll, lol, believe me I know (I've read the stories and seen the pics). And also, for the record, penis lengthening procedures are largely useless. However, for those of you with smaller lengths, penis extenders and weights have been proven to increase length in some people. While I know that somebody might chime in with "extenders and weights don't work either, blah blah blah", lol, they actually do for some people (fact), though the gains vary and aren't always that great. In fact, manual PE exercises have worked for a few people as well however I don't trust them (the discoloration, spots, possibility of bursting/rupturing veins in your penis, the length of time required, etc. Very good chance of damaging your penis if you don't do it exactly right,). Yeah, if i'm going to do something dangerous to my penis, I'll let a doc inject it before I exercise it for the next several years.

But anyways, I've researched this subject in-depth and have personally corresponded with different people whom have had all of the surgeries available---Alloderm, Belladerm, FFT, the Elist implant, scaffolds, PMMA, you name it and I've probally talked to someone whom has had it--and am fully aware of the pros and cons. (For un-biased phalloplasty discussion, a good place to start is the "Phalloboards 2.0" forum). Phalloplasty can be very dangerous if your not careful--and sometimes it can be dangerous if you are careful. It all comes down to whether or not your willing to roll the dice---and I am. As for the PMMA procedure: the gains, low rate of complications, along with the affordability of this procedure have all convinced me. Around $4,000-$.6,000 (cost of procedures and travel expenses) and 2-3 sessions would put me where I want to be with my girth. In fact, I'm currently corresponding with a guy whom --after several rounds of PMMA--went from a 4.5 girth to almost a whopping 7" inch at the base of his penis (Doesn't look too good though, he over-did it and now his penis looks like a cone because of how it tapers down towards the head, and the head's too small--doesn't match the rest of his penis). Of course if you dig you can find "PMMA gone wrong" stories, however the procedure has advanced and is showing positive results for most of those whom get it. As for myself, though life is indeed mysterious and amazing, I'd almost rather be dead than live the rest of it like this, lol, hence my efforts at enlargement.

On another note, I'm doing pretty well these days, about as good as I can under the circumstances. I've banged the craigslist chick a couple of times since my last post and she calls me like 10 times a day.Each sexual encounter has been a near-fail however, apparently, she keeps me around because I'm "sweet" and "look good" (her words, not mine). Yeah, she says that the sex will be fine once I perfect my oral skills. Admittedly though, while I'm glad to be getting action (and I do like this chick, sorta, after getting to know her a little bit), the fact that I need to improve myself in order to satisfy a chick whom I wouldn't look at twice if I had a normal penis sorta pisses me off, lol, but hey---I'm doing better than just a couple of weeks ago, so it's all good. It's progress, I guess....

Peace.

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thoroughly unhappy,

I can see you have done your research but I would still urge to consider your sources.

Do you personally know a good, reliable friend who has had this done and is happy with it?

because:

Forums: theses are littered with dishonest but plausible posts from those with commercial connections- they can be very well written and seductive

Commercial Surgeons: They will show you photos of before and after- but the after photos will not be from 12 months later when shifting and lumpiness has occurred. and photos dont show you the fat 'bunching' during active intercourse.

And you understand why you cannot trust the reviews of any previous patients referred to you by a surgeon don't you?

TV: Recently there was a uk TV appearance of a surgeon and his patient- VERY plausible- then the 'patient' lets the cat out of the bag by claiming he got an increase in erect length- this isn't remotely possible!!

Surveys: If they are professional peer reviewed surveys they are always very low satisfaction success rate. There is an excellent one that surveys several 100 american men. Non peer reviewed surveys however promise the Earth.

My own experience- I investigated this throughly and got consultations-

length- minor increase in flaccid length,

width: temproary and lumpy increase in flaccid and erect girth.

Risks: best case scenario: severe disappointment, ....worst case scario: total amputation of infected organ.

I would urge, urge, urge you to seek further independent medical advice on this!

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No, I don't have any "good, personal friends" whom have had phalloplasty because, like most men, they all have penises and are in no need of it.

No, I don't trust the word of any of these surgeons--only a handful of doctors perform phalloplasty in the US and the majority have demonstrated their willingness to stretch the truth.

Dude, I've been following this since the late nineties and most of what you describe is in reference to FFT and Belladerm. I can almost guarantee you that the surveys and peer reviews that you mentioned aren't about the procedure that I'm considering--because the kind of phalloplasty that I'm considering is usually performed South of the border (Brazil, etc)

And yes, I'm well aware of the fact that there are websites dedicated to promoting specific doctors and procedures. The only site that I half-way trust is the Phalloplasty 2.0 forum. Some of the guys there know what their talking about---several of them have had different procedures, and some of them have had to have their procedures reversed due to complications. If you were to check it out and witness the lengthy in-depth discussions, debates, and progress reports posted there, you'd see what I'm saying, their not all full of sh** or recommending/bashing specific doctors or procedures due to commericial interests, some of them advise against phalloplasty altogether. The site's core-group consists of a handful of wealthy guys whom are obcessed with enlarging their penises and they discuss everything related to it---the good, the bad, the ugly.

As for your belief that the best case scenario would be "severe disappointment", I'd advise you to have that discussion with those whom have successfully increased their girth with PMMA. The girth increase, whether you choose to believe it or not, is achievable with this specific procedure---the down-side is that nobody's sure about whether or not it could result in serious complications further down the road. But of course there's always the possibility that a different complication could arise and, in fact, there have been reported cases of nasty complications with PMMA in other procedures (this stuff is also used as a filler in plastic surgery on other parts of the body) however such cases have usually been due to improper technique, surgeon error, etc. But like I said in my other post--it all comes down to whether or not your willing to roll the dice----and I'm not scared, it is what it is.

I do, however, fully understand your point. Lol, as someone whom has followed the penis enlargement business for around 15 years now, I've done the research and am well aware of the potential problems and low satisfaction rates---which is exactly why I've never had it done. The only reason that I've changed my mind is because this particular procedure looks promising, it's the only thing that has come along that has actually produced results.

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So in terms of girth, where is the thickness coming from? They insert alloderm or whatever that is under the skin? The volume of the penile chambers would remain the same....so the girth increase is just in the skin part? In that case, how is that going to make you feel better, especially since you may lose sensitivty in your shaft altogether? I haven't done research on this subject, but based on my limited knowledge, it seems like the girth additions would not feel or mimic a naturally girthy penis. The only true way to increase the girth would be to increase the volume of the chambers that hold blood in the shaft. I don't think that is possible, but according to several enlargement sites, it is via natural exercises.

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thoroughly:

1. Forum- I dont doubt that this phalloplasty forum is full of convincing posts. they have to be convincing because the guys with disposable cash are not stupid. They need a convincing patter to become a 'mark'. I bet some of the ex-patients even give out their email addresses to talk further about their 'journey'.

These guys with success stories about PMMA.... how do you know they are genuine? Have you met them? Have you got access to their medical records? How do you know they are not plausible stooges after your cash?

The guys that run theses sites are paid to create plausible PR to maintain a customer base.

Its big business- only 3 years ago major US enlargement companies were told to stop lying on internet ads. But these companies still exist you know!- its not illegal for you to tout and sell 'enhancement pills' on the internet. You can do it tomorrow provided you word your ad carefully.

2. Medical practice in Brazil et al is renowned for poor regulation and standards.

3. If this new procedure was as good as you say why hasnt every plastic surgeon in the UK and USA been doing it and become billionaires?

This con market has worked for 20 years because men are desperate. They make men sign disclaimers so they cannot sue afterwards and men wont go for high profile compensation claims anyway due to the humiliation. They just go away quietly to there miserable lives or commit suicide.

False hope can be so cruel and surgical damage crueller still. You are clearly a highly intelligent and articulate guy throughly- don't let these bastards steal your cash- you are better than that.

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Jessie:

Given phalloplasty's track-record, I can understand your skepticism (believe me, I'm a huge skeptic myself). But let me be clear on this: whether or not this procedure increases girth is no longer debated--it certainly doe's. However the problem is that we don't know if it will cause your penis to fall off or kill you 10-20 years down the road. Here's a few other things that we know: it's relatively cheap, has a low rate of complications (thus far), only takes a couple of hours, and it isn't as complicated or invasive as the largely useless phalloplasty procedures that are performed here in America. I'm genuinely surprised that you weren't aware of this procedure (I've known about it for a good while), it's all the rage amongst the PE community.

Yeah, don't think that your past research of other procedures applies to everything, the field changes constantly and PMMA is in a league of it's own. Back in the day when guys were jumping on the FFT, Alloderm/Belladerm, and then Elist implant band-wagons, the horror stories and unsatisfactory results quickly became known--but this just hasn't happened with the PMMA. Aside from a few complications--largely due to the type of instrumentation that was used, poor technique, or low-grade fillers---the results, over-all, have been good. There's a few surgeons whom stand out that have been doing this thing for several years and seem to have weeded out the problems through trial and error. I've watched the business for years and only now have I gained enough confidence in a procedure to give it a go.

One issue though is that--If I'm not mistaken--the filler that they use has yet to be approved by the FDA for penis-enhancement (hence the need to travel abroad for it), however I can assure you that once it is, it will become wide-spread and come with an insanely inflated price-tag. U.S surgeons continue to promise false results and butcher penises every day, lol, so they'll have no problem performing this relatively simple procedure when their able. Luckily though, one can still travel south of the border and get it done for around $.1,700 for the first session and $.850 for the recommended second session...and, if you wish, you can go back for more (and, indeed, sometimes a third is required for a touch-up, depending on how the filler settles). And it's really not a "surgery" at all, they simply inject the penis and your on your way. There's a reputable surgeon here in the states (in San-Diego) whom operates his practice out of Tijuana-- this is the guy whom I'm gonna let work on mine.

.

With the price being what it is--and if I'm alive and well--it looks like I'm gonna be get getting this done within the next 90 days or so (a family member has agreed to finance this for me), so I'm going to be the guinea pig here and accurately report what happens. We'll see.

Tantalus: Thanks

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It's sad that people automatically assume that everything from mexico is sht, people have been traveling abroad for plastic surgey for years (because it's cheaper). And as I explained above, the surgeon I've opted for lives in the states but operates out of Tijuana, the guy's got a good rep, a thriving business (mostly from Americans). I see no issue with it.

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Hi Thoroughly,

- I know girth enhancements can improve the apparent girth of a penis- but the fat is not erectile tissue so feels different- is softer, it often becomes lumpy and deforms the penis, can cause sensation loss and bunches up during intercourse so doesn't improve fullness for the female.

- If its as new as you say no-one can claim it has a low complication rate

- I'm aware of a wide range of procedures including growing penises on different parts of the body and transplanting them, donar transplants, proxy growth via stem cells and glans relocation and filler. None of these have been safely perfected. If anyone ever does they will be a trillionaire very quickly.

- You don't know the results have been good! Photos dont prove anything. Reviews from strangers don't prove anything, forum posts don't prove anything, TV ads dont prove anything. The only thing you can trust is established peer reviewed clinical trials - NOTHING else counts. Sorry its Science- I know about this stuff- its part of my job.

- If there are good surgeons who have weeded out the problems why havent they allowed full clinical trials- data publication and thus becoming the most successful and renowned surgeons EVER to have lived. Why instead are they vilified by the medical establishment?

- There is a reason why foreign operations have poor press- because they deserve it. Mexico and poorer parts of Europe have very low regulation and low clinical standards. This is why people died having cheap breast implants in Europe. USA and UK have good standards of regulations and responsible professional bodies. Thats why people travel to USA and UK for expensive (because its done properly) operations. These are the world standards for medical research and medical care. Mexico... really isnt.

Cant you wait another 18 months Throughly? To see if its a penile revolution that the medical world recognises?

Hell if the price goes up in the meantime get an extra part time job or something

ps if it turns out to be a wonder cure then I will pay for BOTH of us to have the op!

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